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mmmm, x, etc | 11.05.2007 15:59 | Anti-militarism | Education | History | World

SUGGESTING RADICALS ETC ENGAGE, USING, SAY, THE "WREATH" LECTURES . . . . proposing some unusual "overlaps" - dates to follow - encouraging extra involvement . . . . new moments, unities, etc

These days, as the recent wreath lecture series - radio 4 - has shown - all serious "conservatives" - economists too - those that dare to face facts - are reformers . Sometimes, "radical" reformers.
This is a "house of cards" world - with its backdrop of increasing climate turbulence, other environmental feedback effects,extreme global poverty in the "third world" (- but also here), raging global rearmament, (nuclear, chemical, biological - dna too), sudden shortages, increasing amounts of "pendulum" disasters-waiting-to-happen . . . . yet a set of democratic decisionmaking structures all too easy prey to the machinations of "opinion formers" . Funded by lobby groups, vested interests etc - described in that series of lectures as a "logjam", though perhaps this description understates their actual role somewhat, it is perhaps, too, the "state of mind" of the "opinion formers" that is the problem, seeing as this, too, is a "logjam", of sorts- either way, the bit of the solution that addresses these jamms is, for the worlds future to exist at all, crucial.
Actual leadership these days is often "under the horizon", as "Leaders" are all too often either puppets, proxies, "lightning rods" (to distract or take blame) or pinballs - despite good intentions, bounced this way then that, by lobby groups, odd media fashions, suspect polls, or forces they dont fully comprehend, but must pret end to. It is unfortunate, but the most of the leadership "under the horizon" is much, much worse. Levers that are, most of the time, about forms of smearing the facts or quiet sabotage, increasing the stupidity or adding distractions, tend to have a dumbing, sentience-corrosion effect upon those that use them. The newest "sacred cow" is the myth of "getting away with it" - or - it was.
In this situation, "leadership" of both sorts tends to take a position "against" others - seeing everything as "the game", or "choose us or them" . Enemies are easy, when acting in favour of social principles or creating social worth seems blocked or without appreciation. The "war on terrorism" seems a lowpoint in this worlds distraction from progress - as it seems that somebody or other tries to create a "clash of cultures" with actions that actual soldiers of all ranks protest is, in fact, causing increasing numbers of "terrorists" to such extent it seems a deliberate aspect of the strategy. ( in fact, if so, the only bit of the strategy that seems to work).
BUT. . . . WAR WAS OVER. . . .
Looking back from the gritty miracle of the N.I. peace process, I remember the old soldier "informed sceptics" that said the biggest problem was the racketeers that might think they had reasons to try to get it going again. Post-cold war, when from the rubble of the Walls we were about to fashion a good name for "progress" again - a series of odd "hiccups"meant several people had suspicions we might have underemphasised both supporting certain sections of people into the new "peace", as much as protecting it from the consequences of old "side-effects" of the cold war.
BUT. . . .
The 1992 "Rio" global UN summit WAS due to cover disarmament, with the eradication of global poverty, as much as "the environment"in the original brief . Although those other 4 key issues ( of global democratic structures, the economic (credit/ worth / investment/ waste) foundations of the world, the aspects of "media" that affect democracy, global covert crimes - ditto) werent included, it might have needed somebody with a serious depression or paranoia to predict that all we'd get was a dodgy racket of "carbon trading" for a different set of percentage rake-off games to play.
The worlds people - despite overwork, distractions, malnourishment of all varieties, gaudy circuses replacing proper information, control freakery replacing stewardship - didnt stop. Campaign by campaign, backed up with each test of public opinion, despite biased questions, whipped up apathy, the interest sapping dilution of "aims", people of every nation got together to "make poverty history" - culminating in the G8 summit at Gleneagles - but almost as if the bombs were torpedoes aimed by racketeer criminal "opinion formers" guiding a traumatic "memory wipe" distraction at this campaign, 7/7. If our media OR our decisionmaking structures are thrown off course with so little "cost" - except a few of our fellow citizens - then the question "were the actual people plotting 7/7 doing it for the spin?" is immaterial. Are the structures of the world adequate? No.The main problem might seem the terror-crime, or the climate turbulence - but for this reason too - the "structural" discussions shouldnt wait, or limit itsef to piecemeal, "polishing" adaptions of the status quo.
As, say, 1939 was to the British, 2007 is to the world. The "precondition" is to pass the test of explaining how it gets us all out of this mess, in time. All other attempts to seize the word "realpolitik" should get the ridicule they deserve - but people from the entire spectrum of past opinions should get heard, listened to, in the expectation that all could alter positions - but that there is much that people could do to assist each others efforts to have greatest effect - when people dont agree about everything, too.
- that overused but underemployed phrase - in retrospect is often that the necessary "solution" was the existence of several very different-seeming solutions pushing upwards at various different fronts, different energies, taking different forms, with traditions that emphasize the memory of different things, etc, tactics, "evolve" in different ways - the key is often the "overlaps" - listening to each other to comprehend, to appreciate further, then to think, then rethink, to "pull each other up" - but in a good way, listening to each other is sometimes less all doing the same thing at the same time, more getting accustomed to moving to the music together without stepping on each others toes. It aint THAT complex once you do it for a bit.

What we need at the moment is further sorts of overlap - of all sorts of traditions, of reformists, of radicals from the entire spectrum of opinions etc that result in ALL choosing to alter positions after - sometimes a heck of a lot, sometimes to step on each others toes a bit less, misrepresent each other a bit less, but also to refuse to tolerate getting played against each other by "middlemen" - or "middlewomen" for that matter - in the broadcasting industry or elsewhere - in fact - to unite to push for certain straightforward discussions about "structural" inadequacies to get heard, as much as serious ways to alternate futures that cushion all communities, allowing a good future for all.
Of course, this also means, to some extent, saying things that, in the past couldnt get said, but also supporting others doing so.
( Sometimes, this means allowing the "perhaps its about cash, or old cover-ups" sort of doubt to go where "of course its some weird ideological thing, thats what all the papers say" used to go ) !

mmmm, x, etc


Hide the following 13 comments

so . . . .KICK OUT THE JAMS !!!!

11.05.2007 18:28

The reference to the "logjams" as both the "opinion formers" for the vested interests - as described by that sax fella ( google: wreath lectures, 2007), but also the "group unthink" itself - that is accurate, worth thought, worth looking at again. . . . print!
. . . . saying the unsaid:
Tech does seem to have got some people thinking they could all get very clumsy, think less, assume superiority of gizmos meant everything got buried, media "taken care of", mistakes didnt matter - or are a lot of people getting set up to THINK they get away with it.

Yes, the establishment types - high or low - those that think - do seem to have come "out" a bit, in as much as people ARE taking risks for the sake of common sense - much respect to the people doing a few weeks in jail for blowing the whistle about the lies we went to war for - but it is worth saying that radicals are often asked to support "middle of the road" propositions, when the "moderates" often claim that spurious "realpolitik" about even a few structural alterations in society that do have overwhelming public support, or allowing coherent voices to get heard in those campaigns if somebody might shout "red!" or "liberal!" at them in that old cold war racketeers distraction equivalent of tourettes.

That said, yes, this years Wreath lecture IS different - a brief listen to the attack-questions from a few in the audience after each of the 5( short, easy to download then listen to again) "lectures" shows that - in fact - its almost worth listening to the slagging off prior to the actual lectures - spot the old "infowar" techniques - full of sound, sneers, fury, etc! This is also - check the quotes he's used, also the bio - he's "from the inside" - to some extent - he's that "voice of the technical, scientist types that have tried to avoid politics," but - hey - this world IS about to vortex. . . . it is, perhaps, worse than he thinks - but he IS serious, with passion, with experience of the highest of the worlds global scientific, actual "practical solution - based" bodies - with his choice of hundreds of the worlds top scientists, but they aint got listened to, despite promises, so - in his way - he's shouting it from the rooftops.

A commentary from "old radical types" that is less checklist of positions, further useful engagement might encourage others to break moulds too

woo woo!

yet more nonsense drivel

12.05.2007 18:45

which in my books falls foul of at least the "non-news" guideline, so if the editoral team could consign this to the trash which is the view all posts section where it belongs, I would consider it a job well done.

quality control


14.05.2007 11:08

. . . . amongst other good places - but PLEASE stop kidding each other that "this sort of thing isnt happening" It is. Sometimes, you DO need to shout.
Things have got explained SUCH a lot.
. . . .

Off for a stomp.
Back with good news . . . . LATER.
. . . . or "in good time"

DO wise UP

("rival". . . . is paid info-war vacuuos stupid chaff.)

This is still nonsense non-news bullshit

14.05.2007 13:24

so piss off and take your stupid, incoherent trash with you.

quality control

con troll, aint you thought at all

14.05.2007 15:04

it might seem obsessional, but you should look further at the "knocking copy" phenomena . . . .
The actual news piece is about a different direction, even a different form for a campaign mentioned in these pages (- yet, as it involves a, how shall we say, odd coalition - some of whom might have risked more by announcing liason with other bits of the "coalition" than by doing the things they did for this "remember each eleventh" series of info-actions, "coincidences" , etc, has remained informal, so far,) a continuing discussion calls for a larger discussion - opens out - as the internet often proclaims - using this medium for a democratising process of deliberation. . . unhierarchical, without "membership" or set texts to abide by - yet trying to encourage mutual respect of different traditions as we try to prevent the idiotic recurrence of past tragedies, condemning less, without sweeping bodies under the carpet or leaving people under the rubble, allowing "amends" to pave a way to a good future - for all.
Hi flowers, hi trees, etc, sounds sweet - but a lot of us are also cynical, sceptical hardhat old ****s, we have "some experience" of all this info-war, however "special" the "new mercenaries" think they are, safe away from the front, thinking they might shake the spivs for a last few warbux , playing with "cut-out" tribes, towns full of dolls houses, punch versus judy but forget where the cash goes. . . .
Peace ISNT off, but this seems to irritate them.
Might they engage with this discussion - or is the "getting away with it" myth too much of a mesmerising hope for them to think - as a whole.

The "superdollars" are fake, the global disasters are much more imminent, much more your faults (yes, the ineptitude too), the place in the "escape pod" equivalent was as much spin as the rewards of middle east luxury holidays from other peoples misery, but the peace could include you, too

info-war puppie, or a puppet, off-peace for promises of peanuts ? engage!

you call that incoherent drivel "news"? C'mon!

14.05.2007 17:02

the continued presence of this shit on the NEWSwire just serves to bring down the quality of Indymedia to even lower depths. Wakey wakey editors, it's hiding time!

quality control

"cue con" didnt engage, didnt think . . . .

16.05.2007 11:08

. . . . back in the good old bad old days, "reaction" was , to some extent, mindless, but is this "reaction" mindless in ways people had nightmares about, but never thought might happen . . . .
why didnt they engage.
repetition doesnt always work for everybody, except as humour - but . . . .
sometimes the almost automatic outpouring of **** means that - perhaps these con trolls ought to listen to what they say, themselves, or "do what it says across the wrapper" to exert a bit of the old grey matter with a bit of the "judgement" the name seems to refer to - unless the attempt is to LOWER the worth of these newswires with "mud" that doesnt stain , as it doesnt engage, or try to deny . . . .

but, by accident causes others to "pause for thought". . . . good thing too

Editors, get this nonsense shite removed

16.05.2007 20:21

this moron doesn't seem to understand that a few paragraphs of incoherent ramblings and requests to google this, that, and t'other a news story DOES NOT make. In fact it's more like spam.

(wonders what knid of drugs this eejit is on)

quality control

comment eight was put with this when

17.05.2007 15:56

the newspiece was in the VAULTS!
BUT. . . .


The fact this remains unhidden

17.05.2007 17:44

speaks volumes in itself.

dear god, Indymedia UK really has gone downhill!

amazement at the obsessional nature of "qualitykon trolls". . . .

12.11.2007 11:38

how much later????
or. . . .
suspicious of those QC comments yet????

double wow

QC commentator seems aimed at these "remembereacheleventh" posts, but also

12.11.2007 12:29

in a sort of odd defence of Krossrail.
Got me intrigued in the dodgy aspects of PPP tube KNTROLL FREAKERY. . . .
is there more to those rumours about the attempts to pack commuters into "easy-to-use" wagons these days . . . . emp, full spectrum fakery, industrial mku ltra tech, etc????
bad as the new buses.
either way, what sort of inadequate has to use a "BIG" sounding title to post comments.
. . . he said, as the cloud ascends, etc.

(sound of cloud halting.
cloud reverses) . . . .
The problem is, this aint all nutters chit-chatting away, playing "did,didnt,did,didnt", but QCs comments are designed to get people to think of them that way. A lot of this stuff is WAY serious, blocked from getting published in other places, needs serious thought, far more distribution, etc.
thought i'd mention it.
yes, it is possible to discuss all of this with a grin, despite it.
but, remember, sometimes the grin is that grin that keeps a bounce in your shoes when it IS all so serious. That old "borstal" drama on TV had a character in it who was asked why he was always grinning. His retort was that it took X-amount of muscles to frown, but only Y-amount of muscles to grin. He said he had found a way to save energy for . . . .

further enquiries show, later

comment after putting "remember each eleventh" into search engine

08.11.2013 14:46

much of the stuff that came up under this search in the past has gone - but more weirdly - in place has been added a load of deliberately offputting garbled shite . Although a few of the same "buzzwords" have been used, what seemed to have been a deliberately idiosyncratic style has been regurgitated - without the sense. SOME FORMS OF SEARCH ARE ABLE TO ACCESS OLD " FREEZEFRAMES" OF THE INTERNET OF THE PAST INSTEAD OF THESE GOT-AT INDYMEDIA UK ARCHIVES. Fascinating to see what was disparu, then work out why. Particularly recommend the " bunch of flowers" actual history of how the war memorial in Whitehall got to remain where it was after the summer "celebratory" march to be the centrepiece of the 11/11 commemorating that witer, then every year to this day . . . .

much later