Yeah, the London event sounds shit, and our event in Liverpool was INCREDIBLY shit. Someone has just posted this  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/liverpool/2007/05/369470.html, inviting you all up to Liverpool for Thursday 1st May 2008.

Next year Liverpool is officially European Capital of Culture, which basically means that local people are getting shafted even more than usual, while the usual rich bastards are making even more of a fortune.

So maybe all you southerners (and everyone else) should come and pay us a visit next year. Our cops aren't as sussed as the London ones, because they haven't really had to face any large-scale anti-authority action since the Toxteth riots of 1981!

If enough people think this is a good idea, then it will inspire us in the Liverpool Social Forum to take the reins out the hands of our local union bureaucrats for once, and make at least one year of our 'celebrations' worth celebrating!

"The first mistake was the decison to make an autonomous block on the TUC march the centre piece of the day. This block marched under the incredibly abstract banner of "the precariat" which no doubt sounds great in earnest conversations in continental Europe but sadly means bugger all on the streets of London. They could have at least called it "casualisation"."

Where on ANY of the calls for the Autonomous Bloc have you seen the word PRECARIAT?
There is NO mention of it - you are a liar and a fool.

Also you come across as YET another arm-chair general "pointing out flaws" in other peoples political initiatives. And to say DSEi was a "large scale mobilisation" is laughable. J18 was in 1999 - alot of shit has happened since then. I try and simplify it for you:

1) Public Order policing in London had a massive overhaul
2) Increase use of FIT to a massive extent on various individuals and groups in London
3) September 11th
4) The dissipation of the anti-capitalist movement globally post-genoa, post-9/11
5) The rise (and dominance) of the anti-war movement.

Having said that, as stated in a previous post on IMC - this is all about strategy not just mindless adrenaline rushes - the anti-cap movement of 1999-2000-2001 is other, for a new cycle of struggles to be developed we must build a strong social basis so any activity that is done has solid foundations - social centre being one of them. Then to develop ways of mobilizing and organising on the streets - Autonomous Bloc being one of them. When there is a confidence to continue and progress then we can - until then we will go from "DSEi" to "Sack Parliament" and back again.

"Yeah, the London event sounds shit"

mate, I doubt you are gonna get people from London to Liverpool with that ignorant attitude.

And why go to Liverpool? If you are gonna organise something then organise it with comrades from Manc, Leeds...etc.

Why are protesters always protesting about everything, even about each other?
It's not very nice to call someone a liar and a fool especially when the "May Fool" writer doesn't even give a name.
One day we will all march together spontaneously on parliament and overthrow the government, just you wait and see.

I'm only going on what I've read on this site. I haven't read anywhere that the London event was inspiring, fun, or politically significant. And perhaps even more importantly, I haven't seen a single mention in the corporate news.

So if your London event didn't succeed, you have to ask yourselves why. One aspect must be that the London cops have the whole thing sussed. In Liverpool, our failings in the non-authoritarian left led to a soul-destroying 'rally' organised by bureaucrats.

Of course I am appealing to comrades from all over the country, and all over the world. But in London, with the movement as weak as it is, I'm afraid you are a small fish in a big pond. In Liverpool, you can make a real difference.

And besides, 'Capital of Culture' is absolutely screaming to be turned the other way round.

I had fun.

I don't know about anyone else, but I met a load of old mates, got to wear a mask in public without looking a complete fool, and was allowed to run about with a flag and occupy the press area in trafalgar. What more do you want in a day out?

"at the Cockspur street exit they failed to mount a solid boundry leaving instead a few officer from Surrey milling about backed up by only three vans on Whitcomb street. This meant that if the will had taken them the 2-300 hundred on the block could have easily forced their way out up towards Regents street"

- for what reason? pushing past a few cops, getting onto Regents st. only to be swamp by cops, get arrested or held in a pen for 8 hours, come away pissed off and dissillusioned. Nah, I stay away from these things now, the battle is on different ground for me.

i thought it was a really fun day too. Yeah there werent too many of us. And yeah, going on an old fashioned march through london might not seem very flashy or original but there was other stuff going on that day as well, all of which i had fun on. Just like last year, indymedia is full of people making comments after the event about what was wrong with it rather than organising alternatives. How about using your ability to dissect demos and recognise flaws in planning and tactics to some positive effect rather than shitting on everyone who actually had fun? No offence intended, i just think youre going about this in a backward way.

If that is the case then can you explain to me what exactly the stratergy of social centres hopes to achieve because they tend to be very small and isolated operations which pander more to the desire of sulky middle class kids to scribble other peoples slogans on walls then they do to serving the needs of the most opperessed and disempowered members of society.

You talk about the rise of the anti-war movement but ignore the major element of this movement which was the infiltration of direct action into the public consciousness which allowed actions of the scale that very nearly destabilised the government. The phenomenon is without doubt a result of the overt and successful use of DA by the anti-cap movement on previous Mayday's.


Would you also care to explain how an autonomous blocks helps to build the movement because to me all it appears to do is to allow police the oppotunity to gather intelligence on key players which will then be used to unsettle them at the times when their skills in mass action are most useful.

To Sovereign,

Your a fool

Probably my fault for the sulky middle class kids scribbling other people's slogans comment but allow me to clarify.

In my orginal draft of the article I actually used the phrase "Precacity which obviously makes a lot of sense in earnest, Spanish speaking, ciricles of continental Europe" and quite frankly I should have never edited out because I think that over the last few years the anti-capitalist movement has been dominated by the Italians, the Spanish and the former Spanish colonies such as Argentina, Chile and Mexico. The precacity campaign itself came from a Barcelona summit. For some reason the British movement appears to be able to offer no alternatives to this way of thinking, either because they've got no good ideas of their own or because they just have a weakness for dusky mediterian woman.

The problem is that all of the above countries have in the past been led by facist dictators. This means that they have a greater cultural and legal tolerance for political extremism and squatting. They also have a rather "immature" police forces.

Britian by contrast has never been ruled by extremists and therefore has a far lower tolerance for political extremism. (I believe it was Orwell who said that Britian will never be ruled by facists because everytime someone tried goosestepping down the highstreet we'd all be too busy trying to stifle a laugh). Also since the CJA squatting has basically been criminalised in this country making it a very difficult exercise. On top of that it was Britian that invented the concept of an intelligence service and because of the cold war and the NI troubles they have been very well practiced at infiltrating and controlling social movements.

For these reasons what may work very well in Madrid or Genoa is far, far less likely to work in London where the infamous "squatted social centres" have a short lifespan and limited impact. Therefore if the movement is forced to choose between Mayday and social centres Mayday is the better strategic choice because it increases the nation's tolerance for political activism which may make the social centres more viable in the future. Also the swaggering cockiness of a successful Mayday attracts people to the movement and breathes breath into the lungs of those who are swimming against the tide in the non-profit sector and these people do more to enable the dispossed then a few punks in a squat will ever do.

>Probably my fault for the sulky middle class kids scribbling other people's slogans comment
>but allow me to clarify.

No its just your ignorance. Social Centres have come a long way from so-called "sulky middle class kids" (were you one by chance?). And yes they are temporary but there capacity for engaging people within the areas they are based, albeit for a short time, has increased. The composition of those involved has also changed - there are more people who don't squat involved in social centres, and on the whole its people who do work and have other lives as well.

>In my orginal draft of the article I actually used the phrase "Precacity which obviously makes
>a lot of sense in earnest, Spanish speaking, ciricles of continental Europe" and quite frankly I
>should have never edited out because I think that over the last few years the anti-capitalist
>movement has been dominated by the Italians, the Spanish and the former Spanish colonies
>such as Argentina, Chile and Mexico.

First off its PRECARITY not "precacity" - as I said previously which you still haven't responded to WHERE DOES IT SAY "precarity" or the "precariat" on ANY of the propaganda from those that organised the Autonomous Workers Bloc. There isn't any reference.

>The precacity campaign itself came from a Barcelona summit. For some reason the British
>movement appears to be able to offer no alternatives to this way of thinking, either because
>they've got no good ideas of their own or because they just have a weakness for dusky
>mediterian woman.

What are you one about???!! What Barcelona summit??!! To clarify:

precarity has been defined as insecure living and working situations characteristic of the conditions that neo-liberalism and the shift from welfare to workfare has "achieved" from the 1980's onwards. In Spain and Italy where there has been no welfare but a strong workers movement the effects of casualisation at work (or precaritization of labour) has been a fairly recent occurence started from the mid to late 1990's. In response there has been massive movements of youth as well as people from traditional industries against precarity - which is not just about casualisation (hence why the word precarity is used even in the UK) BUT the effect that casualisation has upon the rest of the persons life - it means less rights, it means less security, less ability to plan ahead, it disproportionately effects women, youth and migrants, it means people have less ability to organise at work and for collective action. All this is "packaged" as precarity and why in London/UK this term was adopted in part (see mayday 2005 & 2006).

>The problem is that all of the above countries have in the past been led by facist dictators.
>This means that they have a greater cultural and legal tolerance for political extremism and
>squatting. They also have a rather "immature" police forces.

I agree completely.

>Britian by contrast has never been ruled by extremists and therefore has a far lower
>tolerance for political extremism. (I believe it was Orwell who said that Britian will never be
>ruled by facists because everytime someone tried goosestepping down the highstreet we'd
>all be too busy trying to stifle a laugh). Also since the CJA squatting has basically been
>criminalised in this country making it a very difficult exercise. On top of that it was Britian
>that invented the concept of an intelligence service and because of the cold war and the NI
>troubles they have been very well practiced at infiltrating and controlling social movements.

Squatting places is not difficult and it has nothing to do with the CJA - whats been happening is the rate of gentrification and speculation on property in London is at a all time high and therefore places which are empty are worth a lot lot more. The owners therefore have more to gain to sell up or develop than tolerate squatters. This is the pressure not the law as it is still as civil offence and not a criminal one.

>For these reasons what may work very well in Madrid or Genoa is far, far less likely to work
>in London where the infamous "squatted social centres" have a short lifespan and limited
>impact. Therefore if the movement is forced to choose between Mayday and social centres
>Mayday is the better strategic choice because it increases the nation's tolerance for political
>activism which may make the social centres more viable in the future. Also the swaggering
>cockiness of a successful Mayday attracts people to the movement and breathes breath into
>the lungs of those who are swimming against the tide in the non-profit sector and these
>people do more to enable the dispossed then a few punks in a squat will ever do.

I disagree. I think the Social centres which have occurred in the last 3-4years have had an impact, have radicalised people and have broken out the ghettos where some of the participants have come from. And I should know because I have been involved in many in London and most importantly I'm not involved so that I can live in a lifestylist subculture or expand a cliche of politicos but to radicalise and communicate with people.

Finally, Mayday was squashed in 2003. The reason was that the police had a better plan and more organised people than we had. It presented the END of that type of organising, inherited from Reclaim the Streets and the previous Mayday's (2000 -2001). The weaknesses of the then "anti-capitalist" movement provided the basis for its eventual downfall, if we are to reconstitute it we need not to repeat the mistakes of the past but learn from them. I believe the two autonomous blocs which were organised in 2006 and 2007 are part of that process.