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Censorship on Indymedia?

Apostle of Revolution | 03.04.2007 12:09

As secretary of my local anti-war group and an environmentalist, I regularly post articles and adverts for events on indymedia
Recently, I have posted up an article three times and it has either been removed or not been printed. Can I have some explanation as to why?

This is the article:

A radical priest who participated in the Nicaraguan revolution and has spent a lifetime working with poor and excluded communities in Central America will be speaking in Cardiff as part of a campaign to urge people to live simpler and more sustainable lifestyles in solidarity with the poor and the oppressed.

Fr. Juan Hernandez Pico, professor and author of numerous books and papers including "A Theology of Solidarity", "Religion & Revolution in Nicaragua""Another History is Possible" & "El Salvador Political Yearbook" is a leading exponent of Liberation Theology in Latin America and a respected sociologist.

He currently lives in Santa Maria Chiquimula in the Western Highlands of Guatemala, working pastorally with Mayan indigenous communities.

Wednesday 18 April at 7.30
St. Mary of the Angels Church
Kings Road
off Cowbridge Road East
Canton
Cardiff

All welcome.

Apostle of Revolution

Comments

Hide the following 22 comments

Editorial Guidelines

03.04.2007 12:43

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/static/editorial.html

these include

>Hierarchy : The newswire is designed to generate a news resource, not a notice-board for political parties or any other hierarchically structured organizations.

The Respect Party and the church fit neatly into that box.

IMCer

I call shenanigans

03.04.2007 12:52

1) Talk about indymedia UK policies belongs in the imc-uk-features mailing list (see the Editorial Guidelines page, but the list archives seem to be down at the moment). This post will almost certainly be hidden for that reason
2) If you've posted here before, you've not used the 'Apostle of Revolution' name
3) Indymedia only deletes posts outright in exceptional circumstances. Posts are generally just hidden, and I can't see any postings since the 28th of March, hidden or otherwise, that would match your announcement of this priest's visit.

Which leads me to believe that these censorship allegations of yours are entirely bogus.

Aim Here

Flexible application of rules...

03.04.2007 13:05

Personally I wouldn't have hidden the notice announcing this meeting it sounds kinda interesting...

And I'm not a believer in god either...

Here is an example of a post about a couple of meetings at which a christian was speaking that wasn't hidden:

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2007/01/359877.html

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2007/01/360448.html

The hidden posts will be able to be found via the view all posts page:

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/viewallposts.html

The list server is down at the moment so this can't be raised on the regular imc-uk-features list.

If the event is posted on the protest.net events site it won't be removed but it probably won't be seen by many people...

http://protest.net/imcuk/

Another IMC'er

Freedom of Speech NOW!

03.04.2007 13:16

Okay, so can you make it clear that no posting relating to religion can be posted on this website? I am an atheist, but I am well aware that their are many people who are socialists, anarchists, marxists etc. who are religious.

It is well known that there are many groups and individuals such as Catholic Worker, Christian CND, Leo Tolstoy, Martin Luther King, Gandhi etc. etc. that are broadly on the left.

You refer to hierarchical organisations. This meeting isn't being put on by the official catholic church and is supported by various latin american solidarity groups and NGOs

You are also profoundly ignorant. You don't seem to realise that many liberation theologians are often in conflict with the leaders of their own church.

For example, the speaker at this meeting is Juan Hernandez Pico who participated in the Sandinista revolution. His most famous book was co-wrote with Jon Sobrino, a catholic priest who has currently been banned from teaching by the catholic church and being attacked by the catholic hierarchy!

See:

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/citjo/article/the_sad_persecution_of_father_jon_sobrino/C33/L33/

Your narrow-mindedness is astonishing.

Tom Muntzer

Proof of censorship!

03.04.2007 13:29

Aim Here.

Look at this link:

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/viewallposts.html

You will see it declare that "Latin American Liberation Theology in Cardiff" has been hidden.

So where are the shenanigans?

Banning freedom of speech is very hierarchical!

Tom Muntzer

Jumble Sale at St. Judas next Tuesday - free entry

03.04.2007 15:29

Personally I'm not surprised that the person who is advertising the talk in a church by a priest (liberation theologist whatever) is the same person that is posting up 10 reasons to vote Respect.

Neither of them offer a real alternative to anything........

"Another IMCer" writes:

"Personally I wouldn't have hidden the notice announcing this meeting it sounds kinda interesting...

And I'm not a believer in god either... "

Yes - well I have no way of knowing what you might find interesting. Me, I'm more interested in the jumble sale! What I do know is that a meeting in a small church in Cardiff is not news - it hasn't happened yet - this is an advert for a small local event with a hierarchical theme. Or does the priest not believe in the authority of God either?

Heres the witterings of the man of god:

"Father Juan Hernandez Pico, one of Nicaragua's prominent liberation theologians, declared that there was "no other way for a Christian to show his faith in the Kingdom than by committing himself absolutely to a contingent project (the Sandinista regime)." Thus their logic brought them to conclude that one's identity as a Christian depended on a partisan political commitment."15

- "salvation through patronising the immiserated" - That sort of crap I can do without

and posted up by an "apostle of the revolution" doesn't make it any better.

If there is going to be a proposal that we advertise whacky church meetings on the newswire, I probably won't be the only one who has a problem with it.

ftp

I posted and was removed re: Jedi against ID cards

03.04.2007 15:43

I posted my link to try to stimulate people to take more action on some isses covered on this site but the post was hidden, I just accepted this as I know it happens sometimes but as there is a debate here I thought I would post my opinion.

kind regards to you all.

Paul T. :)

Paul T
Homepage: http://no2id.bravehost.com

censorship

03.04.2007 15:49

If you call hiding comments that correct factual erorrs in posts censorship, then yes, Indymedia does censor items.

old lag

'factual erorrs'

03.04.2007 16:22

Very few facts on Indymedia as far as I can see.

Perhaps you can explain what the factual error was?

ftp

Try this one

03.04.2007 16:52

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/03/366628.html?c=all

old lag

i still want to know

03.04.2007 19:40

why the faq is password protected and why asking got pulled off 4 times.

Two Hats

FAQ

03.04.2007 20:23

Dingo - your posting articles about the FAQ have probably been hidden because it isn't news. The FAQ link is outdated, the FAQ is here:

http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/FrequentlyAskedQuestionEn

But since the wiki is down then get it from the archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/FrequentlyAskedQuestionEn

IMC'er

Trolling for the Empire

03.04.2007 20:29

"old lag" the comments you seem to be upset about are pro-imperial ones, from people who believe that the US / UK Empire has every right to be terrorising sailors in the Persian Gulf and killing hundreds of thousands. I guess you believe that comments that would be more at home on the pages of the Daily Mail deserve a hearing here, well it appear that, thankfully, some admins don't agree with you.

nowar

Concerted Indymedia Censorship of Anti-Fascist Posts

03.04.2007 20:32

Over the past year or so, there's been a concerted effort to systematically 'hide' comments on anti-fascist posts on Indymedia - and even sometimes to 'hide' the posts themselves or to remove them from the newswire. This has been done, largely by the same person, on the most spurious, and politically pathetic, grounds - for example, that the very existence of anti-fascist posts sometimes attracts fascist trolls. Here's one recent example of 107 comments being hidden on one antifascist thread:

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/03/365587.html?c=all Almost all of these comments were hidden at the same time, and while some may breach IMC guidelines most do not.

For active antifascists posting on the IMC features list simply gives your details to the enemy.

I'm surprised that this thread is even being allowed.

Antifascist

So, get involved

03.04.2007 20:55

Antifascist - It's not hard to get a secure email account, try

http://riseup.net/ or one of the other activist tech collectives, then join the imc-uk-features list and explain why you have a problem with the hidden comments -- this isn't the place for this discussion and yes this article probably will be hidden.

techie

antifascist

03.04.2007 21:27

Besides the fact that the whole basis of that thread was dubious ( - singling out an individual for different treatment because his mother is jewish -) the level of comments on that thread were diabolical - and we were contacted by other parties who were affected by the stuff being posted there.

If you think that there was a particularly newsworthy comment that should be unhidden, then post it up here and we can look at it.

I was the person who hid the majority of comments on that thread.

I've asked for this thread to be unhidden as the list is still down, but the normal channel is to discuss complaints about moderation on the list and to try and sort them out that way.

Otherwise there'll be interminable threads asking questions and cluttering up the newswires. Furthermore, they'll be seen by more IMC admins on the list.

ftp

Secure e-mail

03.04.2007 22:49

The fascists were originally given my name because of discussion between IMC volunteers on your list.

Antifascist

Dubious?

03.04.2007 22:59

"Dubious"? You cheeky bastard! This individual was "singled out" because he is a Nazi and a police informer. I suggest people read the post rather than accept your bullshit. Which "other parties" were you contacted by?! You hid most of those comments 'at a stroke', despite dissent on the IMC list. Again, I suggest people read these comments and judge for themselves rather than listen to the lies of a political incompetent. A shame anti-fascism is such an irrelevence to some IMCers.

Antifascist

Antifascist

03.04.2007 23:32

Does the word Jewish in the title of that thread refer to the "nazi" part or the "police informer" part?

Or does it maybe refer to the Jewish part?

If you think about it for a minute, you might even understand why I saw it as being the last option.

The other parties were people mentioned in the thread who hadn't done anything.

As the list is down and theres no way I'm trawling through my inbox for emails, people won't have any way of checking your claim that i ignored dissenting views.

I have to say that you don't make the anti-fascist movement look like a particularly worthwhile place to be if all it does is sit and gossip about the alleged sexual predilictions of 'the enemy'. Which is how the threads end up looking a lot of the time.

I don't ever see any kind of analysis of the issue of fascism, just silly willy waving contests. If thats political competence, I'll stick with my incompetence thank you very much.

You haven't actually presented an example of a newsworthy comment that got hidden, have you?

Do you think this one should be up as news?

"Something sick but sadly true (170401) by: Griff
Apparently on a trip to MIlton, Sid tossed off into an unused nappy of the child of Chantroll!!

It's absolutely true!

She was also back on the game within a week of giving birth."

I think its sexist, and puerile.

Have you got something a bit more enlightened that we can look at?

ftp

Once Again, Liberal Idiot Attacks Antifascism On Indymedia

04.04.2007 08:08

The substance of this piece was that Robin Steele, who is Jewish, and formerly involved in the animal rights movement among other things, is now active as both a Nazi and a police-informer. The exposure of his Jewish identity is relevent, not least because it means that he will no longer be able to engage in actvities with his new Nazi pals - such as recruiting other idiots, covering West Yorkshire in racist stickers, and intimidating asylum seekers - something Antifa are trying to stop. Do you have any inkling of what I'm talking about moron?

"The other parties mentioned in this thread"? Who would they be then? Other Nazis perhaps? It wouldn't be the first time their protests about Indymedia threads has been listened to would it? But I think I know who you might mean. In which case this person not only knew about Steele's involvement in the BPP and C18 for 6 months prior to him being publicly exposed, but also knew he was touting for the cops, and that he was involved in attempting to fit people up.

I find it typical of ignorant liberal scum like you that yet again you choose to denigrate anti-fascism. I'm sure you wouldn't find the anti-fascist movement a "worthwhile" place to be, or you'd be involved in it already, and a bit more clued up than you are. The article on Steele had absolutely nothing to do with his "sexual predilictions", and it is disgusting and offensive that you choose to characterise the anti-fascist posts that people bother to put on Indymedia as "silly willy waving contests"

I don't know where you found that piece of rubbish, but as you well know it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Steele thread. It should be expected that Nazis (and other idiots) will post rubbish from time to time on Indymedia, silly comments are hardly confined to the anti-fascist threads afterall. What the fascists have learned however is that by posting up rubbish, idiots like you will remove the whole piece, as has happened before. But most of the comments on the Steele thread are not rubbish, and do not contravene IMC guidelines in any way. People can check that out by going to:

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/03/365587.html?c=all (a legitimate link to the Indymedia 'View all posts' section, which you have repeatedly tried to hide.)

I believe that, unlike yourself, most Indymedia readers do regard the struggle against fascism as relevant and important. Those who actively engage in it risk arrest and physical harm, and unfortunately have to contend with the sneering (and the smearing) of censorious, ignorant, fools like yourself.

Antifascist

Ad homs are the last resort of the desperate.

04.04.2007 08:20

Yes, I'm sure its easier to launch an attack on me, from behind your cloak of anonymity, than to defend the dribble that I hid.

Perhaps it just boils down to you being so self important that you just think everyone should tolerate your dribble without question?

"Robin Steele’s Jewish blood may make him unacceptable to his would-be Nazi comrades"

What colour is Jewish blood, and in what way does it differ from human blood? Exposing a grass is fine, but pandering to racists by feeding them racism seems a bit of an own goal for an anti-fascist. It is supposedly anti-racism that is at the heart of your movement, no?

The lists are back - so take your response there.

ftp

Why not just tell us the reason?

04.04.2007 08:56

To avoid a load of speculation and suspicions of censorship, if an item is rejected or hidden, why can't Indymedia simply tell us the exact reason(s)?

Sometimes it is not at all clear which of the guidelines has been breached (e.g. I can't see why this priest's talk should be blocked, if that was in fact the case - seems inoffensive enough, and of interest to peace campaigners in the area).

It would also make it much clearer to the poster about what is and is not allowed, such that he / she could avoid similar problems in the future.

Gregor Samsa