Please -- I am too far from your scene to know. Surely this piece was intended as humor, right?

"We would hope to resolve this matter by > agreement, but the Officers would like to assure all those who support our > demonstrations that in future there will be sufficient stewarding of any > samba bands to ensure that the march can proceed without delay."

REALLY? Now were I a samba drummer my resonse would likely to be to evaluate whether these fascists could muster a sufficient number of sufficiently well armed stewards to make good on that threat. Otherwise the first goon that grabbed my might find a drumstick jammed up his ar...

Or is it just that we are so much less inclined to follow orders than your side of the pond.

This just highlights the authoritarian tendency of the STWC. Without the Samba bands these plods from A-B would be even more depressing. Again the STWC are obsessed with numbers and when on Feb 15 there were two million marchers and Blair did not give a crap. why should 70 thousandor so make a difference to him on all the following marches .Going back to orders i recently watched STWC leader Tony Benn debating Richard Dawkins on the existence of god. Mr Benn said that "without religion people would have no one to tell them what to do" it seems that the STWC are all to eager to tell us how to live and what to do when on a demo. When i have been on protests not organised by the STWC people just got on with things and organised themselves without any problems and over the top marshals.

One or two 'stewards' who order the band to "move along please" or a 60 player strong samba band, along with assembled throng of people surrounding the band dancing freely in the streets. Who was making a unilateral decision?

Whatever happened to freedom of expression and of movement?
This just goes to show how uptight and obedient the 'Stop the War Coilition' are,yet again.
Complying to rules gets you nowhere....if Bush and Blair had abided by the rules the world wouldn't be in this mess in the first place!
Whenever I play on one of theses marches I always seem to get pushed around by the stewards.....they are just the police's lackeys!
eg. we had a die in on the Manchester march and were asked to get up immediately-
DEAD PEOPLE DON'T GET UP!!!!!!!!
this whole fictitous story of us blocking peoples progress on the march is rubbish,they are3 never prevented from passing us if they wish.
What is wrong with enjoying the march,indeed many of the samba players also came from out of London to perform.If people want to hear the soeaches all well abnd good, overtake us and go hear the same old rhetoric that has been spouted since even before Afganistan....
anyhow this time it was supposed to be about stopping the new Trident missile programme.....or has everyone forgotten?

galling tho it is to agree with the likes of STWC, I think they do have a point.

the sit-downs which take place not infrequently on these mass marches serve no purpose whatsoever. consider:
- they do not block anything of actual or symbolic impact
- they gain no attention from those outside of the march itself
- the police are so used to dealing with them that they do not present any kind of challenge/confrontation
- they do not encourage further militancy, partly due to the above

instead all they do is quite seriously piss off a lot of people, generally those who are trying to take part in the march itself and are prevented from doing so by the actions of a few. sometimes, depending on where, when and how the sit-down is carried out, it also creates a confrontation between the demonstration and the public - again, for no real purpose.

and yes, 60 people putting a stop to a march of 10,000 is anti-democratic.

direct action and civil disobedience are key tools in any struggle and simple routine A-B marches are not enough in themselves. however, simply because civil disobedience is useful does NOT mean any and every opportunity should be taken, particularly if - as in cases such as this - the benefits are trivial to the point of non-existence.

I'm no fan of the SWP and seeing them (or rather their "united front") condemning others for being anti-democratic is quite amusing. however, the utterly juvenile attempts by people to sit down and play a bit of a webel are pathetic, irritating and useless.

Then we need to discuss different aspects of this separately.

a) The issue "was the stopping to play and dance a good or bad thing". We could discuss this at length but that's NOT (directly) connected to "is measures to have prevented this justified". OR, if you think it IS connected, then maybe we need to discuss THAT (in general terms)

A subquestion relevant here is whether the Sambanistas accept responisbility for their own decisions.


b) The whole notion of "democracy". We are presumably NOT in agreement about that and at least some of us unable to grasp that the anarchists among us have a very different sort of analysis. For example, I hope this expression would not be totaly unfamiliar --- suppose I defined "democracy" as a means of settling fights without actually coming to blows. That the count of raised arms is in effect counting how many sword arms are available to each side and that perhaps a "voice vote", often challenged because not necessarily a correct count, is valid because enthusiasm DOES matter in a real fight.

I was responding from the anarchist point of view at the SILLINESS of the posting. Somebody who gives me ORDERS under conditions where I have not agreed in advance to obey (temporary agreement) is behaving in a most silly fashion UNLESS able to make a claim of "enough force to back it up". Not necessarily physical force, of course, but compulsion of some sort, yes.

Although an outsider to your scene, it appeared obvious to me that this is not so, that the organizers did not have and do not have the "means" to give orders to the sambanistas. They of course perhpas could make future marches so grim an unfun to take part in that nobody of the "if I can't dance at your revolution I'm not bothering" crowd to attend.

Hey guys, been there, done that. I've been maching against wars since the 60's. You folks have this silly "religious" faith that history is on your side. A lot of the rest of us just taking part because we feel it's the right thing to do -- win lose or draw. So having fun while we can all part of it.

"The only problem we encountered on the otherwise magnificent demonstration on February 24 was the considerable disruption caused by the activities of samba bands"

"....which incidentally assists the police in underestimating the number of people taking part in the rallies"
- says Lindsey German and Andrew Murray

Hmm... so the fact that these marchs have had zero impact on government policy is not a considered a problem. Even though the ineffectiveness of these demos is something that most of the British public have noticed - which is why they are staying away in droves.

There have always been samba bands on these marchs - and on past marchs they were generally biggger bands and more bands used to come out - it was not seen as such a problem back then- so why are 'our leaders' turning on them now?
Could it be the samba bands provide the StWC leadership with a convienent scapegoat and distraction from their all to evident failures to have the least effect on government waging the war(s)

From the twisted control freak perspective of Lindsey and Andrew - its an obvious answer- the reason that this march was reported as the smallest one yet is not because people are not turning up anymore -
but because it was sabotaged by samba bands who are objectively assisting police in weaking the impact of the StWC on the government by causing 'their demos' to somehow look smaller than they really are-

So comrades, it is not the Stop the War leadership, which denounced and derided those who avocated or undertook direct actions against the war and drove them from the local groups that is responsible for the pathetic state of anti-war activism in the UK today -
No, my friends - its all the fault of samba bands, who were the 'only problem' in an otherwise 'outstanding' day!

(Incidently direct action against war is something many of the more political samba bands have actively supported and advocated in different ways when they are not on A to B marchs - something which 'our leaders' have not forgotten nor forgiven)

Hi - I guess I'm to blame. (he says taking the limelight.!) - yes, I'm the one at the front of the band leading them along the usual dull route from A-B, getting pestered frequently by silly people in yellow jackets with inflated sense of authority - oh sorry - "It is not acceptable, however, for anyone to unilaterally decide" - that's just what I thought as you shouted angrily in my face - I actually Ifelt sorry for you.

ok - yes samba has been part of these marches for a long time now - we hope that they bring something to the people on the marches, although it still depresses me that thousands turn up (eg: 2 million at the big Feb one a few years ago) but only a handful of us went to Northwood (UK Military HQ for the Iraq war), or to Aldermaston or any of these places (imagine 20,000 people turning up and storming the fences at one of these places.!) - people like to turn up in droves for the 'easy' marches and I personally have nothing against that - indeed I think of them as both vital and, hopefully, enlightening and a springboard to a variety of other forms of more direct and useful action.

But I digress - personally I was angered as you shouted at me - and, as I've thought for some time now, it's a shame that you're basically doing the police's job, and, it seems, being slightly warped by that sense of 'responsibility' and power. The samba band (or, and let's get this clear, ANY other group of people) have a responsibility those around us but we're not beholden to them. This very argument in fact is illustrative of the downward spiral of these debates over the past few years - we're in the throes of divide and rule - no-one outside of these circles gives a damn about this argument and anyone from the Met reading this is no doubt smiling.

Finally I'm getting to my point - as I walk backwards and help to lead the lovely people of the band and watch the lovely smiles of the lovely people who surround us I'm NOT in a position of authority (it's sad that you lot seem to have fallen into the trap that hierarchy in this way is the only way) - we're simply making music and making a space (some people choose to dance in it, others to walk past, others to meet people etc). If you want and need us to move faster then facilitate it - unfortunately you were doing such a useless job of doing your job that I actually asked people who were dancing with us if they could help move people forward, which they did very well.

oh by the way - the most disappoing bit of the day was to read that you claim there were 100,000+ people there - I expect the police to lie and give stupid low numbers (they claim 10K), but now you're just the same but in reverse - your propaganda belittles you and your members - shame really - why lie.?

thanx for reading this far - love to all.. topiman RoR.xx

stopping outside the ritz and having a street party.
half of these march organisers have no idea also how tiring it is to play, carry drums and march at the same time. we needed to get our breath back.

more than tight arse of stwc to moan at "the people" when the children are still dying and the war criminals are still murdering.

Here is an e-mail sent to STWC:

Dear stop the war

I want to express my deepest concerns relating to you're attack on the presence of samba bands at the latest demonstartion.

I am a key organiser of one of the samba bands who attended this event, and approximately 3 or 4 anti-war demonstrations every year.

I would like to inform you of some of the information you have got wrong:

Firstly, any samba band, however big, does not prevent people going around it, and never has.
If other protesters find it difficult to pass a band, it is because so many people on a demo decide that they wish to enjoy the music and dance, and actually have some fun on an otherwise dreary and depressing occaision.
It is therefore the crowd themselves that prevents others passing.

One of the biggest problems the samba band faces, which leads to their slow progress, is other protesters getting into the middle of the band bloco. If the stewarts could assit in preventing this we would indeed move faster.

Secondly, all the members of my group, and other groups we are linked closely with care deeply about the stop the war issues. To acuse us of prohibiting the rights of other demonstraters is nothing short of insulting.
It was my beleif that stop the war co-alition was exactly that: a co-alition of varied people, beleifs, cultures, all unified by one cause. As a co-alition it should not be trying to exclude support.

On Demos there are hundreds of people who come up to band members and thank us for our involvement, stating that without our music they would have found the day boring. I'm sure if STWC recorded these, they would outnumber the complaints.

Thirdly, many of the bands themselves come from great distances to participate, with groups form Scotland and France included. To make such a commitment, to travel that distance, with large heavy drum, to spend a day trying to walk around london in a crowd people whilst carrying their drum, shows equal if not more commitment to others who have journeyed for the event.

Fourthly, although we are all greatful for STWC for arranging such notorious speakers in the square at the end, many demonstrators do not attend to listen to them, and instead of "preaching to the already converted" some would prefer to communicate to bypassers on the streets, and be more visible to the general public. The samba band is extremely effective in this: i have personally witnessed on many occaisions when the samba band passes, people emerging from shops and coming to windows to discover what it is all about. On each demo i have personally been asked by passers by how they can be informed of future events, to which i give them the STWC website details.


The attack on samba bands is both unfounded and insulting, and i would not be surprised if it leads to a smaller number of sambistas attending your events. I am quite confident this would have an overall negative affect on attendance. Samba is a very effective tool in any demonstration, and i urge you to consider how it can be used positively instead of attacking members commitment and motivations.


If you wish, i feel comfortable to respond individually to anyone who has complained.

We are all fighting the same cause. We should not be fighting amongst ourselves.

Jaqs Bourne
Barking Bateria

it's all very well turning up on demos to entertain the crowd, or whatever you want to do, but if you're going to churn out monotonous, one paced, badly played dirge for hours on end, without finesse, subtlety or feel, with no feeling for the music, as is all too often the case with 'activist' samba bands these days, then there really is no point. what is about 'sambista's' that they suppose being an 'activist band' means they don't need to know how to play their instruments, or ever need to practise. if you have no love for the music you shouldn't be playing it.

rhythms of resistance are a classic example. they've had plenty of time to work and develop musically, and to be fair there are some good musicians in the london band who have developed myusical ideas. but usually when i see an ror band they sound awful, and whenever they finish playing they break out in a round of self-congratulatory applause while those watching look on bemused and thankful that the bloody racket is over.

all the freaks make the beauty of the world!! keep on drumming

sorry guys but if we want to go out in the streets and play music we will. You CAN'T CONTROL US.