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A Clash of Civilisations?

Chris | 04.02.2007 22:09 | Analysis | History | Terror War | London | World

Attached is a "guerilla" recording from the London Sound Posse of a debate between Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London vs Daniel Pipes, the neocon held on 20 January 2007. The MP3's include contributions from Salma Yaqoob, Douglas Murray and the audience. Following it is an extract from a Guardian article, Muslims are now getting the same treatment Jews had a century ago, which is based on the presentation by Maleiha Malik at the conference.

Mayor of London vs Daniel Pipes - Part 1 - mp3 14M

Mayor of London vs Daniel Pipes - Part 2 - mp3 15M

The official site for the conference doesn't have much information on it, Islamophobia Watch has an article about it from the Morning Star.

The London Sound Posse describe their recording in the following way:

World Civilisation or a Clash of Civilisation

"Guerilla" recording by londonsoundposse. Sponsored by the Mayor of London with our council tax money.

Don't bother complaining about the quality!!!

We thought this would be widely available on the web by now, given the enormous mainstream media presence on that chilly morning, but but looking at the web it's like this debate didn't happen. lucky thing we whipped the mic out and pointed it at a speaker!

An important debate between Mayor of London Ken Livingstone and Daniel Pipes the pro-war (sorry pro "victory") US academic about the 'clash of civilisations' thesis and the "war on terror". (Being literate and rational, we just can't write "war on terror" without quote marks. Tried. Failed every time.)

There were thousands of Londoners out early Saturday 20 January 2007 lining up in the cold to see the debate with substantial pro-Israeli, muslim, and anti-war lobbies adding a frisson of excitement to proceedings.

London sound Posse "We Record. You Decide"

Well, maybe not.

The original is on

Muslims are now getting the same treatment Jews had a century ago

Maleiha Malik

Migrants fleeing persecution and poverty settled with their children in the East End of London. As believers in one God they were devoted to their holy book, which contained strict religious laws, harsh penalties and gender inequality. Some of them established separate religious courts. The men wore dark clothes and had long beards; some women covered their hair. A royal commission warned of the grave dangers of self-segregation. Politicians said different religious dress was a sign of separation. Some migrants were members of extremist political groups. Others actively organised to overthrow the established western political order. Campaigners against the migrants carefully framed their arguments as objections to "alien extremists" and not to a race or religion. A British cabinet minister said we were facing a clash about civilisation: this was about values; a battle between progress and "arrested development".

All this happened a hundred years ago to Jewish migrants seeking asylum in Britain. The political movements with which they were closely associated were anarchism and later Bolshevism. As in the case of contemporary political violence, or even the radical Islamism supported by a minority of British Muslims, anarchism and Bolshevism only commanded minority support among the Jewish community. But shared countries of origin and a common ethnic and religious background were enough to create a racialised discourse whenever there were anarchist outrages in London in the early 20th century.

Most anarchists were peaceful, but a few resorted to violent attacks such as the bombing of Greenwich Observatory in 1894 - described at the time as an "international terrorist outrage". Anarchist violence was an international phenomenon. In Europe it claimed hundreds of lives, including those of several heads of government, and resulted in anti- terrorism laws. In the siege of Sidney Street in London in 1911, police and troops confronted east European Jewish anarchists. This violent confrontation in the heart of London created a racialised moral panic in which the whole Jewish community was stigmatised. It was claimed that London was "seething" with violent aliens, and the British establishment was said to be "in a state of denial". East End Jews were said to be "alienated", not "integrated", and a "threat to our security" a long time before anyone dreamed up the phrase "Londonistan".,,2004222,00.html