Instead of killing them why not introduce their natural predators?Wolves in Leeds?Ye Gods.Some balance must be acheived.How far do we take wildlife protection?To the point were humans are endangered.Cows are bred for farming business.Why can't the farmer be allowed to keep the population in check by Venison?Shock.Horror.But i don't hear you defending cows.

Indymedia includes an ANIMAL LIBERATION forum;so your falsification that " i don't hear you defending cows" is another delusion You, anthropocentrics, please to bask in.

The so called " farmer" is another example of a territorial nutcase.

Fuck the Council(and the previous message and the messager on this board),they can't even say kill or slaughter,much more morally easier to clad violence in benign language like " cull".

Why don't all the animal lib vegan types head of down to this place en masse to protest? All your VW camper vans on the roads around this area will result in serious roadkill of the deer and thus eliminate need for a cull! Re-introducing wolves is another sound idea!

Well, I e-mailed one of the councillors and this is the reply I got… And although I’m sure he’s got his own invested interest it sounds like a hopeful situation, if someone could come up with a way to make the fence (economically) viable.

.............
At present it is an officer's decision, and I doubt that it will come before the full council. It is a really difficult and intractable problem, and I have already received several messages about it. Here follows a reply that I have prepared for another local resident who was equally concerned:

This is a complex and delicate business, and the story in the Evening Post did not give all the facts. I have been closely involved in this area for the last twenty years, and here is a potted history:

The floodplain of the River Aire through the Kirkstall Valley is grade one agricultural land, among the best in West Yorkshire, and comparable with the best in the entire country. It is deep stoneless river alluvium, undisturbed (apart from farming) since the last ice age. Less than twenty years ago, the official policy of Leeds City Council (adopted with all party support) was to tip about 250,000 tons of highly toxic contaminated fly ash on top of the pristine environment in order to raise the level above the floodline and thereby convert it into a supermarket car park.

I am not kidding. I can show you the plans.

This harebrained scheme was endorsed by the government office, and the only people to speak out against such an obscenity were your three local councillors, the Kirkstall Village Community Association and a handful of local residents. And the farmer, who has come in for so much stick over the deer issue. If it had not been for him we would never have persuaded MAFF (Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food) to survey the area in time to save it.

My wife and I have two allotments on the site. We do fence them against the deer, and the fence works. However, the cost of maintaining the fence exceeds the value of the crops that we raise. It doesn't matter to us, because the site is lovely, the food is delicious and we do it for fun, but it makes no economic sense for the farmer, who is not a rich man, and simply could not afford to construct a suitable fence, or keep it in good condition.

If the situation is left as it is, the farm will inevitably fail, and probably take with it a very successful rehabilitation scheme for young offenders that also runs on the same site. I have a moral problem with simply booting the farmer off the land that he has helped to protect and has farmed for most of his working life.

We have racked our brains for a solution to the deer problem. The population is exploding: there are now at least three mature hinds and two stags, plus their numerous young, which are difficult to count. Last year one hind had triplets, which is highly unusual for wild deer, and a reflection of the excellent food supply. They browse at random and do enormous damage to the crops. If the farm closes that food supply will fail, and the population will crash. Some might move back to Bramley Fall woods, where we think they came from, but that area is already saturated with wild deer. To put it bluntly, some of these animals will inevitably starve to death.

Another problem is "lamping" - hunting at night, using lamps to attract the animals. There have already been fatal accidents near Leeds through this unlawful activity, which I know is still going on. Amateur marksmen often fail to kill their victims cleanly, leaving injured animals to suffer for considerable periods of time. Hunting is banned on council land, but some of this site does not belong to the council.

Any alternative suggestions for stabilising the deer population would be welcomed. We have already tried scattering lion dung, which is supposed to scare them, and considered using tranquillising darts, which are not as easy as they sound. There might be a technical solution using ultrasound, but the effects on other wildlife must also be taken into account.

The site is worth at least £20,000,000 as development land, probably a lot more. We are constantly fighting off developers who want to build on it. The latest wheeze is to put the buildings on stilts to "overcome" the flooding problem. There have been at least two such applications, and once again I can show you the plans. I am seriously concerned that unscrupulous property developers might exploit the deer issue for their own ends. We have already had to contend with a developers' agent secretly infiltrating the local community association in order to undermine their efforts. Your local councillors also keep their wits about them and I can show you her reports to her boss. I have served as a Kirkstall councillor for 27 years, and I can tell you that nothing in my experience can equal the greed and deviousness of property companies.

We want to dedicate the entire area as a new public park, and we are desperate for concerned local residents to help us manage it. We have established a local charity to promote the scheme, and we have a website at  http://kvp.org.uk If you can spare us any time to help we would be enormously grateful. The park will have to be managed, not only in relation to the deer, but also against petty vandalism and human stupidity. An urban nature reserve is not in equilibrium with its surroundings, and if the public have access then we will have to repair any damage that they cause.

Please respond to this message if you are interested. I would be delighted to walk the site with you and to show you the situation at first hand.

John Illingworth

So you have met,all,who you call "Animal Lib Vegan Types" have you? I'm an "Animal Lib Vegan Type" and i do not own,and have never been in,a "camper van"?

Think before you type Arthur;generalising not only makes you look like a inaccurate tosser but also a generalising tosser!

Now, now children (and there’s nothing wrong with camper vans!)

But really, I’m not sure where people would stand on this. I’m not particularly sure why watching a deer being killed by a wolf is better than it being shot by a gun –assuming that shooting them with a gun doesn’t involve chasing them with dogs for a couple of hours before hand.

Seems to be that what is actually needed is some volunteers to go and put up the fences and maintain them. And for that I think the camper vans would come in handy.

SKILLED Student NUJ photographer, (Jimmy Nick) leeds based available for any demo or campaign involving this deer cull, please keep me up to date via indymedia of any demo and i will make sure that they get seen for what they are, killers !

I would imagine there would be a fair expense in hiring marksmen to kill the deer. Perhaps some animal welfare/rights groups, environmental, and community groups might be willing to help build and maintain the fence. How about a benefit, it sounds like a good cause?

I'm a vegan, I'm an environmentalist and conservationist. In many cases, I fully support the culling of deer, as they no longer have natural predators in this country, and therefore in many areas their numbers need to be controlled by man for protection of delicate ecosystems. However in the Aire valley, from my knowledge, it does seem as if this is one farmer who's unhappy about some crop damage rather than a significant ecological problem that needs sorting.

Erecting deer fencing around particularly sensitive areas, or maintaining tall hedges of native trees and shrubs are effective methods. Deer are an important part of many ecosystems, but in some cases need controlling. This does not seem to be one of them. I do feel, however, that 'OH GOD THEY ARE GOING TO KILL AN ANIMAL' hysteria is not only misguided, but an ineffective method in portraying strongly held beliefs.

P

I'm a Vegan and hate to see animals killed. But in the case of Deer they do lack natural predators so some culling is neccesary in some areas, this is sad but a fact of life.

I am one of the Councillor's in the email list given above and received many emails on this subject.

My colleague Cllr Illingworth has hit the nail on the head with his reply as it is an officer decision that is been taken on this matter under delegated powers. It is a tough issue to decide on and is not just about a few deer but the whole population and their quality of life.

Luke

I'm also a vegan and am glad to see via UKIMC that these deer won't be murdered in Kirkstall.
Good choice.
Onward and upward!

what do reckon now tim?caused a shitstir or what?

What about fencing them in and all the money paid to the rspca to kill all the strays they catch being released into the fenced off area and let it become a natural habitat.

Go back to your desk spiv!