What will you do? Bravely dig up their dead relatives? Boldly attack their children? Target people who've got nothing to do with the company but have similar names?

Whatya going to do Paul, abuse a few more animals and killed a few more thousand people with fraudulent research based on vivisection. It's people like you who make me feel sick. Go SPEAK!

We fight to stop animals dying through fraudulent science (vivisection) and fight to stop animal tested drugs getting on the market that kill and maim men, women and children.

What do you fight for Paul Edwards?

People like the ALF don't give a stuff about the human race. And their fascist tactics do nothing but bring down the strong arm of the state.

Paul and the "Progressive" tosser are implicitly supporting,by derogotizng the SPEAK campaign,the murderous drugs industry and their paid side kicks-Oxford Univeristy-to get even more toxic drugs to maim,deform,paralyze and kill men,women and children of this country.And yet they accuse animal rights people of "anti humanness"!

The old argument that animal rights activists are misanthropes has been trotted out time and time again, ad nauseum, in place of rational arguments. My experience of animal rights activists is that they are generally equally concerned with the peace movement, workers rights, the environment and other causes affecting the whole of humanity. In fact if I have any criticisms towards the movement it is that they are often not focussed enough but tend to flit from one cause to another.

But this is by the way. What if it is true? What if the majority of animal rights protestors have become like a small minority; so disgusted by what they have seen of the cruelty of humans to human and non-human like that they have become jaded, cynical, mentally imbalanced and misanthropic. Would this actually be a logical argument against what they believe? Of course it would not. It is a common example of what first year philosophy students would recognise as an "ad hominem" attack, making derogatory comments about the person making the statement because you have no supporting arguments.

To illustrate - the absurdity of the argument goes something like this;

Michael: I am opposed to the use of animals for experimentation for two reasons, firstly because animals can suffer and it is unethical for one being to use its power to cause another to suffer, simply in the belief that the means justify the ends, and secondly because differences at the cellular and biochemical level between two complex species are too great for any meaningful comparisons to be made, so vivisection is scientifically flawed.

Paul: But you, Michael, are a misanthropist tosser.

Michael: Wow, rarely have I ever heard such a conclusive rebuttal. Paul, you are a philosophical genius! I must be wrong about the ethics of not allowing suffering. You arguments have also convinced me better than any scientist about how vivisection must be scientifically valid. Thank you for sharing your enlightened thoughts with me.

Hello Michael

You have answered those two dim witted tossers with the sort of reason and rational they are unlikely to understand.

In the 80s people who were anti nuclear weapons (I did not care either way) were branded as ‘Communists’ by the Tory press. There was never any discussion about the financial cost of the weapons eating up surplus wealth which could have been put to better use. Nor the logic of getting involved in an arms race which was going nowhere but into the bank accounts of the weapons industry. All this was avoided by simple name calling to appeal to simple people and their simple ‘understanding’ of an issue.

Like yourself my experience of people involved in animal rights is that they have a broad vision about a better and more just society. Vivisectors and their cheer leaders never do. They are always motivated by more insular and self centered concerns.

Can i take it that we are going to see a good turn out in support of SPEAK at the demo this weekend. By now the penny should have dropped. The new lab is not about finding cures. It is about corporate greed, maintaining the status quo and silencing dissent.
See you on Saturday.

>> They are always motivated by more insular and self centered concerns.

So glad to see that you know what motivates me and the other person who criticised animal liberationists. Of course, we have to be motivated by greed. Goodness, we're probably in the pay of big pharma and are only posting here as part of some black op.

Me, I care more about people than animals. There it is, terribly specieist I know. I don't care if it takes the sacrifice of thousands of animals to find cures for cancer, HIV and other diseases. I don't care if it takes the slaughter of thousands of animals to just discover how these and other diseases arise in the first place. I don't care how many animals die to feed the poor in the world.

People are animals, but not all animals are people.

What do you want "progressive" tosser? Your anthropocentric viewpoint is already widely known, as this is the philosophy of humanist society,and your just a part of the collective conformist psychology of this herd society.

What's your definition of a "person" or "people"? Is it to furfil a criteria of "humanness"? And those who don't aren't a "person" or "people".You know a while back,the dominant race used a similar rigged criteria of "whiteness" and if the minority races didn't furfil that criteria of "whiteness" ,in skin colour or ancestry,then there property status and thus oppression remained.

If you don't like the message and sentiment in this animal liberation forum; then exit out by using your computer mouse; and join the,many,anthropocentric liberal forums which discuss the many worthy issues including the terrible treatment of slaughterhouse workers(but not their slaughtered victims ofcourse).

This guy has a big ego problem

"I don't care if it takes the sacrifice of thousands of animals to find cures for cancer, HIV and other diseases." I don't care if it takes the slaughter of thousands of animals to just discover how these and other diseases arise in the first place."

You're going to have to do better than that I'm afraid. You are just repeating the old lie that animal testing leads to cure for disease. You mentoin cancer, and despite even more animals being used to find cures for cancer, and over a hundred years of animal testing on cancer, cancer rates are becoming higher every year.

" I don't care how many animals die to feed the poor in the world. "

If you had half a brain, you'd realise that a field given over to growing crops would feed infinitely more people in the third world than a feed given over to grazing cattle.

You do not share the agonies that these animals go through in labs, whcih is unspeakable, but unlike others you have a total lack of imagination to realise such agony. I sometimes wonder whether if it were legal to enslave and abuse people, whether you woudl be advocating such atrocities here. I leave this for others to judge.

Dont worry about progressive. They write similar levels of 'intellectual' posturing shite on their blog as well.

Maybe we could save thousands of animals nasty, nasty deaths from testing for cancer (been doing it for 20 odd years and still no cure, hey if I did something for 20 years and found damn all I may think of changing what I do...), and so test on progressive, after all I dont care about progressive, so I would kill a thousand progressive to save one mouse.

Take your head out of the vivisection industrys' arse and have a look around.

Paul, why the worry about grave digging, you cant harm the dead!

IMPORTANT LEGAL NOTICE

On 30 May 2006, the University of Oxford was granted an order in the High Court protecting members of the University; its employees, contractors and suppliers from harassment by those opposed to the new building. Please see link below for a sealed copy of the order of Mr Justice Holland. In the light of a publication on the SPEAK website identifying a contractor allegedly associated with the building, a further order was made last week (19 October 2006) by Mr Justice Gibbs (Please see link below for a sealed copy). The Order of Mr Justice Gibbs includes the following provisions :

"1. The First and Third Defendants, and all other persons acting as members, participants or supporters or in the name of the unincorporated association known as the SPEAK Campaign to prevent or obstruct the building of the Research Laboratory at the University be restrained from continuing to publish on the internet, by email or otherwise the name of or any information concerning the company asserted by SPEAK to be the contractor for the building of the research laboratory.

2. The First and Third Defendants do forthwith upon being notified of this order take all steps within their power to cause the name of or any information concerning the company asserted by SPEAK to be the contractor for the building of the research laboratory to be removed
from the website "www.speakcampaigns.org.uk" or any other website, including the Arkangel website."

You should be aware that any person or body on notice of the terms of an injunction may not do anything to undermine the effects of that injunction. Any publication of material providing information about this company in the context of allegations as to its association with Oxford clearly breaches the terms set out above and is unacceptable.

We bring to your attention the Penal Notice on the Order of Justice Gibbs. That Penal Notice is reproduced below :

PENAL NOTICE
IF YOU THE WITHIN NAMED DEFENDANTS DISOBEY THIS ORDER YOU MAY BE HELD TO BE IN CONTEMPT OF COURT AND MAY BE IMPRISONED OR FINED OR YOU MAY BE FOUND TO BE GUILTY OF A CRIMINAL OFFENCE FOR WHICH YOU MAY BE IMPRISONED OR FINED OR BOTH.

IMPORTANT NOTICE
IF YOU DO NOT OBEY THIS ORDER YOU WILL BE GUILTY OF CONTEMPT OF COURT AND YOU MAY BE FINED OR SENT TO PRISON OR MAY BE GUILTY OF A CRIMINAL OFFENCE FOR WHICH YOU MAY BE FINED OR SENT TO PRISON OR BOTH...


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Order Justice Holland -
 http://www.lawson-cruttenden.co.uk/oxfordinjunctions/0605_oxford_order_holland.pdf

Order Justice Gibbs -
 http://www.lawson-cruttenden.co.uk/oxfordinjunctions/0610_oxford_order_gibbs.pdf

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For further information please contact  info@lawson-cruttenden.co.uk

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