> The chartists were asking for very few things - getting the "rotten burroughs" out of democracy, getting rid of the things that skewed debate or decisions in British society

They also wanted stuff like universal male suffrage, the secret ballot, payment for MPs, annual general elections and dropping of the requirement that MPs be property owners.

More on the chartists elsewhere on the Web.

saw this piece as i was looking over the "enemy within" book by that ex-economist bloke - that reminds me of that selection of investigations from "medium press" - or was it mainstream - called "defence of the realm" or something, (with the cogs as the cover picture) about the past of the economic league - in the 1920s, the odd "river" fund arrangement that funnelled cash to bits of the tories, (pre-the "UN-seat -for- cash" expose about the tory "treasurer"!!!!) + a few other interesting details - - - -
- - - - had a simultaneous revelation about 3 things
1 - we have slipped BACKWARD as far as vested interests buying opinions, debates, news, democracy - - - - they seem to have got FAR more blatant
2 - the vested interests are far further criminal rackets, this time, that masquerade as - or try to fool into acting for them - people that are "patriot" or "dry" - - - - the pretence that its anything other than SENTIENT to think that amp-ing up the nuclear free-for-all post cold-war is idiotic is matched by the comprehension that the biggest slushfund bungs come from the "cost plus percentage" big arms projects. . . .
3 - perhaps most interesting - the c hart ists had "provocateurs" too - the tale of the founder of pinkrtns detectives escaping to the U.S.after exposure was explained in a radio 4 prog

. . . . whens the demo????

It lies daily.
It fabricates, invents, diverts and sends to sleep.

It is not a newspaper. Nor a news organisation.

it is the most effective propaganda outfit that has even existed in the so-called public realms in the west at least for the past three hundred years.

The Guardian is effective in the lying as it still maintains craftily the veneer of being liberal, almost tolerant.

It is as evil as the true evil ever has been and will remain.

Whatever the alleged origins, the Guardian today – and the Guardian of the poisonous Peter Preston’s time – has not been anywhere near the spirit that reputedly motivated the founders of the paper.

It could not have been. If it had been anywhere near the principles of the Peterloo protesters, it could not have shopped Sarah Tisdall.

For a start.

Ever since, the Guardian has shopped all the ethical causes and has sold out on everything that it ever pretended to subscribe to.

How else could there be any explanation for the fascistic Polly Toynbee being anywhere within a million miles of the actual editorial decision making spot on the Guardian!


And the Observer’s support for the genocidal assault on Iraq is not insignificant.

stop the war racketeers - demo is wednesday 29th september - 1pm - st peters square -

if you cant get to it - perhaps IT IS worth doing something to publicise the facts it raises in your local neighbourhood
what is the address of the guardian -
that was the biggest manchester demo for a VERY, very longtime . . . . what cover did it get? seperate from trying to "put it into a box", to turn it into cliche, to "allow"it column inches to UNexplain it. To create a "firewall" to stop the sense "infecting" other free thinkers with much needed warnings - even sensible solutions.

we do need a serious mass-news-outlet(s) . If some factors think that for a few shitty dollars they can block sentient, democratic discussion by the affects they can have to distort the "usual suspects" of the voices of dissent - it affects EVERYBODY, lefties, patriots, "elite", greenies - people.
That AINT "extremist".
These people are the canaries in the cage down the coalmine - for ALL of us
its time for people to rethink the way we do news, as much as the way we do labour/libdem/tory/green "fund-raising". ( + engaging with the wider spectrum of ideas - too. To speak out against "flat earth"theories was extremist for a bit.
The majority of EVERY bit of the spectrum of voters is sceptic about these wars. . . . the entire way things are going . . . .

. . . . the guardian, nevertheless, is SEEN as the largest "serious" paper of the centre or left.
The INDEPENDENT sells far fewer, the MIRROR - with a "mass" sale - is "labour supporting" in as much as its sort of pledged to say "vote labour" at elections, throwing in the occasional "tory-slag-off" at other times - except for that its a "minus" in practical terms . . . . as it is even further undermining when it pulls the rug - ie the sunday mirror breaking that "control freak" tale . . . .it doesnt cover internal labour or left debates - neither do the grauniad or the indy - even the "forums" - or explain centre, left, green OR even LABOUR - let alone libertarian or socialist crits of "economic" fashions, scams, or world events.
- BUT - for the big, london demo against the war - all these papers printed a diagram of the route of the march, even - - - - you see the stark difference.

The tale about the private detective firm set up by the bloke that got used as the person trying to get the cha rtists to appear violent is worth further research - the story of the US firm itself was dodgy for a bit, then others took over - it ties in with the "does it help to remember" + "2remember the scams" here.

. . . . in fact, thats ". . . . to remember? : does that help . . . . "