you had me interested until you had to fumble it with "We have an opportunity to transform the world and exposing the 9/11 cover-up is the first key"

Only one question, will tinfoil be supplied or do we bring our own. Will people who are interested in the real world crimes be gagged from objecting to pointless discussion of loony theories?

This is not about dealing with the paranoid loony world which is the official creation of the governmental agencies and their controlled media outlets - ie the official stories and the fearful population
This is for the people who've seen through it all
If you dont understand that, keep your opinions and your dumbed down tinfoil comments to yourself

I'll stay home and seek Truth in the Daily Mail and QVC instead.

Or perhaps you'd like to join me in an excercise in flogging a dead horse instead?

"I'll stay home and seek Truth in the Daily Mail and QVC instead"
I suppose I'm expected to fall for the irony, but I dont
You just do that or turn up

Personally, tinfoil isn't dense enough for me, I require lead.

Dh deserves credit for being the most active of the 911 investigators, and least Dwight is organising a meeting, that is more than the other 'investigators' here have done in 5 years despite much encouragement. I once failed to organise a demo in a peace camp, though I did suceed in organising a piss up in a brewery in roughly the same circumstances and with roughly the same resources.

I know what you mean
Someone recently said they failed to organize a joint in Amsterdam

I'd agree if all he did was post a notice for a meeting and then post the outcoe, but he's one of the offenders polluting this place with utter gabage.

Like most people I flick read at best most of the 911 stuff now. I do differentiate between the three types of 911ers, the propagandists, the fantasists and the genuine. Dwight certainly isn't a propagandist. I had discounted Dwight as one of the nutters, since I'm sure he is embarrassed by some of his previous posts on other forums. For instance from slackers.net:

"Plant X Nibiru passing
I know small sects have taken themselves to mountaintops
or desert valleys, awaiting the "end is nigh" before. But I believe
there is some objective science behind this one. I'll search some
links if anyone is interested. Look out for the evidence in slightly
less than year's time. (Mon, 13 May 2002)"

Now Dwight, take it on the chin. A claim of finding 'objective science' in an out of date armageddon prophecy is a bit cringe-worthy isn't it ? And it does seem to make you a little bit of a dubious witness when you analyse more earth-bound matters. Still, we all believe in irrational things at some point and at least you never took the hills yourself.

Personally I find this quote from Dwight on 911 more insulting:

"The problem is partly due to the resilient and rigid belief systems
of those of pacifist, leftist and anarchist tendencies - who can't
bring themselves to quite believe any of this and therefore won't
play their part in dragging all this out of internet-confined
paranoia and on to the streets."

Dwight, anarchists do not have a rigid belief system, quite the opposite, we simply have principles to aply to every situation (oppose power structures, respect the freedom of others as you do your own etc).

Bauxite Investor , you probably like him even less now but the reason I'd seperate DH from the crowd of 911ers isn't just the fact he actually got around to organise a meeting, it's because other posts of his do show an awareness and a relative level-headedness that set him apart. For instance he posted in defence of Austin Sherman when he was sentenced, and not enough anarchists did, and he has written some other fine posts at appropriate moments. The original article he has posted calling for a meeting contains little offensive or mistaken in terms of facts, although why he thinks 'exposing the 9/11 cover-up is the first key' 'to transform the world' is baffling. However, Dwight doesn't seem patronising, self-promoting, shrill and unhinged as a lot of 911ers obviously are, and I'm sure we could ask him if we were interested. Personally I suspect in 4 years time he will cringe when he reads that post the way he must be cringing reading the Planet X Nibiru post now. I'm sad since he is aware of the slaughter in Iraq that he feels he or we need more proof of our governments wrong-doing before he takes personal responsibility and direct action against the government. And yes, at least he is approaching the matter like an activist would, by organising. If he also used the same organisational skills to protest a less speculative crime, a more current crime, then he could end up saving lives. I can stomach anyone elses irrational beliefs as long as they are not racist and as long as they are active and committed. I actually prefer nutters who act over the sensible informed people who refuse to act - what use is an intellect if it doesn't connect to your feet ?

Dwight, my only bit of advice. While I think you are genuine, that doesn't make you immune from cult recruitment or from the effects of propaganda. If you sup with the devil, use a long spoon. Keep a strict distance from the Nazi 911 sites like rense and check out the sites you do read for any sign that they are a Larouche front - or kiss your family goodbye !

Hi Danny - you did a bit of research - that's always a good thing to do.
I don't really cringe at my old posting stuff, and at one time I did do an almost daily hit on Indymedia. Even the Nibiru stuff did do a great spreading of Deep Forest's one beautiful tune Forest Hymn around the internet
Actually, I hold a huge raft of ideas on board which would be cast as lunatic by some contributors here. I like to check them against the 'reality' being broadcast out there
Sometimes I feel that 911ers and the like are watching an entirely different movie from the rest of the population. As someone commented to me today, the bigger cover-up than 9-11 is the cover-up that millions of people have seen through it. Thus millions of people believe that other millions of other people constitute a small lunatic fringe
That's why I'm doing this. It's been coralled for nearly 5 years on the internet
It needs to be out on the street and in people's faces
The questions that have been asked need proper answers, and the guilty deat with

'Personally I find this quote from Dwight on 911 more insulting:

"The problem is partly due to the resilient and rigid belief systems
of those of pacifist, leftist and anarchist tendencies - who can't
bring themselves to quite believe any of this and therefore won't
play their part in dragging all this out of internet-confined
paranoia and on to the streets." '

I still hold this to be true. I speak with some authority. I was an active member of an anarchist group at age 14 - a loooong time ago. It's started to change only really in the last six months to some extent
Yeah - I find conventional anarchists guilty of rigid thinking. Why the hell did they find it so hard to believe the government and media might be lying with regard to 911, 7/7 and the rest ?
They're supposed to be anarchists for godssake - why believe the government and describe the likes of me a conspiracy wingnut?
Danny, I consider that anarchists ought to be questioning every last aspect of delivered,educated and constructed reality. It's all false - every needle and thread of it
You nevertheless take up the useful bits - in every falsehood there's a nugget of truth

Anyway enough rambling - drag this onto the streets I say
Thanks for the attention
I'm sure I'm immature enough to crave it

>Why the hell did they find it so hard to believe the government and media might be lying with regard to 911, 7/7 and the rest ?

We are all sure that the government lie and kill. However we don't need to get the murderers on those few deaths that they deny, we can hang them for the daily ongoing deaths they admit to and investigate 911 after. Asking for a public enquiry or independent inquiry while Blair and Bush are in power seems silly. Yes, I'd like to know the inside story of 911, much like I'd like to know who had Kennedy shot, but I doubt I will and it wouldn't change me priorities, plans and opinions one jot either way.

 http://www.mungbeing.com/issue_1.html?page=21∂=3

"As an admitted Cosmic Schmuck, I don't claim to "know" the answer to that -- or anything else -- but I do have certain persistent suspicions. I suspect, for instance, that "the Establishment" -- i.e. the TSOG and the corporate media -- have told so many outrageous lies that nobody really fully trusts them anymore. The weapons of mass destruction in Iraq still remain hidden from human perception. After that lie collapsed, the TSOG did not merely appear full of shit; it appeared, to quote Carlin again, that seems STUNNINGLY full of shit. So naturally a market has grown for explanations of what the hell really motivates Bozo and his gang. I regard my job as applying the same scathing criticism to all models that try to imply the model-maker really knows more than me and doesn't just guess, and speculate, and grope in the dark, like I admit I do"


>They're supposed to be anarchists for godssake - why believe the government and describe the likes of me a conspiracy wingnut?

 http://www.terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu1.html#12

"Call a man a sycophant and he flushes with anger; call him a flatterer and he turns crimson with rage. Yet all his life he will continue to be a sycophant, all his life he will continue to be a flatterer. See him set forth his analogies and polish his fine phrases to draw a crowd, until the beginning and end, the root and branches of his argument no longer match! 18 See him spread out his robes, display his bright colors, put on a solemn face in hopes of currying favor with the age - and yet he does not recognize himself as a sycophant or a flatterer. See him with his followers laying down the law on right and wrong and yet he does not recognize himself as one of the mob. This is the height of foolishness! He who knows he is a fool is not the biggest fool; he who knows he is confused is not in the worst confusion. The man in the worst confusion will end his life without ever getting straightened out; the biggest fool will end his life without ever seeing the light. If three men are traveling along and one is confused, they will still get where they are going - because confusion is in the minority. But if two of them are confused, then they can walk until they are exhausted and never get anywhere - because confusion is in the majority. And with all the confusion in the world these days, no matter how often I point the way, it does no good. Sad, is it not?"

>We are all sure that the government lie and kill. However we don't need to get the murderers on those few deaths that they deny, we can hang them for the daily ongoing deaths they admit to and investigate 911 after.

I've heard this argument before - usually out of the mouths of SWP and STW deniers. I've seen a whole 911 type meeting disrupted by an SWP man on this very point. Please understand that a general exposure of these forces killing their own countrymen comes before the killing of brown faces in demonised foreign lands. Killing 'your own' countrymen is seen in the eyes of the public as a heinous crime, while killing foreign brown skins can be viewed as a distant war

>Asking for a public enquiry or independent inquiry while Blair and Bush are in power seems silly

Or anyone else. Such pleading to the governments is always silly. The whole point of this thing is the extraordinary cover up of the 911 movement, that's even more remarkable in a way than the 911 cover up itself. The thing is huge absolutely huge yet confined almost entirely to the internet. The whole point of 911 activism is to put the message constantly on the streets and in the face of the general public. Just keep pumping pumping, drip drip drip

Oh, I wouldn't hate anyone for simply thinking that anarchism was some extreme left wing hippy thang; I'd just hate them for not allowing themselves to be educated otherwise.

I am however a tad annoyed these days at comments like "How can you be an anarchist and believe the government!?", when all I am saying is that their theories just don't add up. As an anarchist I generally tend to first completely disregard any political statements as irrelevant. Then if they don't go away I will scrutinise them with all the cynicism of the CPS considering Gary Glitter's defence.

I started off believing that 9/11 was an "inside job", I am not going to say categorically that it wasn't. I will say however that I bet my soul that none of the garbage that 9/11 Truth has put forward is remotely true. None of it stands up to proper scrutiny and most of it has been debunked by professionals... apart from anything else it's logistical nonsense.

But you are right, big up Dwight for getting of his arse and following his beliefs; but I do believe his tent would be bigger if started with calls for a public inquiry into Blair/MI6/Iraq than organising a sermon on 9/11 Truth.

Now, if you pardon me, I'm getting some kip before I return to the woodland commune- the big old brainwashed sheeple I am ;-)

"I bet my soul that none of the garbage that 9/11 Truth has put forward is remotely true"
I would bet my kids' lives and all I own,admittedly not a lot, that it is
Sermon? What sermon? I don't do sermons, never have, never will

Blair/Iraq/MI5 - this covers that and stuff much bigger than this.
Inquiry - I'd only trust one that involved ourselves, certainly not anything official that I'd have to call for
I'm afraid I can't really count you as an anarchist, Bauxite
To me you are but a gatekeeper - conscious or unconscious but perfectly defined

Just one last (some hopes!) thought. I'd welcome Leeds-Bradford Indymedia editors as impartial, or partial if you want, observers. According to Chris of Sheffield Indymedia the Sheffield collective is more or less 100% pro-911 Truth. I appreciate that the individual regions want to retain their individual identities, and I respect from the replies I receive that Leeds/Bradford isn't ready for this yet, despite being in the firing line,or the eye of the storm in some respects
Anyway, L/B IMC people, take this as a personal invitation

Thankfully I don't reallly care if you court me. I'm also beginning to care less and less that IMUK has turned in a loony magnet.

Mark my words, many people will regret posyting all this crap. By then, it'll be too late, the credibility of this place will be lost.

Good luck with your hiding to nothing.

The meeting went well and constructive
See the loony magnet later