Hidden Article

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

non-news discussion

Ms. Frustrated | 01.07.2006 20:09 | Indymedia

Newswire Open Posting Guidelines
articles and/or comments may be hidden for the following reasons:

Non-news : posts which are clearly purely comment, opinion or rants unrelated to a recent event or action etc.

Repeated : content that is reposted or text that was originally a comment posted as a report.

Advertising : posts with personal or product promotions.

IMCuk is under attack. Every day items which break the above editorial guidlines pass through the timeline. Conspiracy theories, blog pastes, cut and pastes from news sites, rants, book reviews, repeated news, repeated posts, even songs, all of these are clogging up the timeline. Indymedia is possibly the greatest positive media achievement of our times, but personally im wanting to check it out less and less these days because of all the above. I think that if indymedia continues on the way it is going now, it will be an aborted or fully hijacked project within a few years. That will be a tragedy that doesn’t need to happen. For me something needs to be done.

I propose a couple of things, here posted for discussion.

1) We set up an indymedia forum, for people to discuss things broader than simply news. Perhaps if people want to discuss the truth behind 911 or the Yorkshire Ripper, things which have no bearing on recent peoples struggles, they could do so here. Also, it could include a section for blogs, book reviews, etc.

2) If the idea of having a separate section on indymedia is unappealing, then perhaps we change the Newswire to not simply highlight important news, but to have separate tabs to choose between news, opinion, reviews, songs, etc. Maybe even an "alternative truth" section or whatever those ufo folk like to call themselves.

3) If not one of the above or another drastic change, then perhaps we take a stricter approach to the above mentioned posts. More than simply hiding the text of posts which breach the guidelines, we take them off of the newswire entirely, leaving them perhaps inside a temporary bin that will empty itself after a bit and can be appealed from, where the appealer would have to state why his entry does fit within the guidelines.

Those are simply some suggestions. And yes I would be interested in trying to help out with this process. Also, yes i completely see the irony behind me writing a piece for the newswire about the problems of non news on indymedia, but perhaps that testifies to the fact that indymedia is lacking a decent method of discussion.

Ms. Frustrated

Comments

Hide the following 8 comments

Not News

01.07.2006 20:22

When will you idiots who post about other peoples posts not being news realise that your post isn't news either ? Leave the admin to the voluntereers and shut up or volunteer to do it yourself for your complaints ironically are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Scolari

Perhaps a forum experiment...?

01.07.2006 22:18

If there are techies willing to set one up and keep up with security alerts then I don't see why a forum.indymedia.org.uk site couldn't be set up as an experiment.

Italy has been running one for years,

http://italy.indymedia.org/forum/ of course someone would have to write up a proposal to the

http://lists.indymedia.org/imc-uk-process list, it would need to have a consensus and also some techies would be needed to set it up and maintain it and there would need to be a server found to run it on.

Then there would need to be some process, even if an informal one, for giving people admin access for the forum so that it it able to run itself.

In the past some people haven't been supportive of web forums because don't use them, but it does appear that there are enough other users of the site who would like one... so why not...?

The best recent example I have seem of a issue that would be better on a forum is the veganism discussion on the Sheffield site which started as a argument in Matilda, which led to a rant on a blog that was then inapropriatly (the author of the blog site didn't think it should be on Indymedia) posted to Indymedia several times and is now a long discussion thread:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2006/06/343770.html?c=on

techie

This is continuous bullshit and misinterpretation

02.07.2006 00:34

The NEWSpapers and TV NEWS carry interpretations and opinions about what's going on
What falsehood to presume an activist NEWswire shouldn't be able to carry the same
Establishment NEWS is always and every minute spinning and brainwashing, why shouldn't alternative NEWSwires be antispinning and trying to wake people up?
From veganism to conspiracy, our mental constructs of the world are very important
If we can put it out there in a form of constructive activism then so much the better
But we have to post the idea or meme to get some feedback to know we are not isolated nutcases and can thus forward the resultant activity, don't we?

Set the promoted newswire as your default

02.07.2006 09:49

Dear Ms. Frustrated,

On the front page of this site there link to display the promoted newswire rather than the open newswire:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/?w=promoted

Viewing this version of the site will probably solve all your problems, the stuff you don't want to see here doesn't get promoted.

You may also set this version of the site as your default using the link at the top of the promoted newswire:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/?cookie=promotedwire

The promoted newswire was implemented in January 2006 to address some of your concerns, perhaps you didn't see the article about it:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/331108.html

One aspect of the promoted newswire that probably needs considering by the editorial collective at some point is the posibility of making the promoted wire the default one and the open wire one click away, perhaps they will consider this at the next UK Indymedia network meeting.

Granny Smith

promoted not all that great

03.07.2006 08:40

Setting the promoted newswire to be default does not actually solve the problem. The promoted wire might not contain the kind of posts complained of above but it also does not contain lots of middle ground items. Worse still, it is SLOW. You can see no changes on the promoted wire for entire days since it requires somebody to actively go and promote an item. One way of addressing some of the problems is to increase the number of people able to promoted items - perhaps by implimenting some system by which 'ordinary users' can recommend articles for promotion directly from the page displaying it rather than having to join the admin collectives and learn how to use the admin interface. However, while the promoted wire could be quicker and include more things with more people able to promote them but as far as I can see, the basic problem in non resolvable - there will also be issues of quality and quality control on these open publishing platforms.

grey

i like the forum idea

03.07.2006 12:31

Scolari - read to the end of the post before attacking it, please. The original poster recognised the irony.

dh - News is not the same as a mental construct of the world. I might be interested in "alternative" mental constructs of the world but not when I'm looking for Facts and Reports. Then, they just get in the way and are annoying. I want a way to keep them separate.

Maybe they wouldn't be such a problem if the people posting them were better at separating the facts from their interpretations of them.

I think the Promoted Newswire has gone some way to solving problems but agree that it isn't perfect. People want different things from the project; sometimes those things are compatible but the minority of the agenda-pushers are aggressive, don't recognise their privilege as computer-literate westerners and therefore crowd out the voices that Indymedia should be about amplifying.

Poor signal/noise ration

03.07.2006 15:39

I agree with Ms Frustrated. Indymedia used to have a good signal/noise ratio but now there's more noise than signal, such that the news, which people want and need from Indymedia, is swamped by comment, and it's increasingly difficult to pick out which articles listed on the newswire are news rather than opinion. This will put people off coming to Indymedia, which would be a major blow and would go against its main purpose, which is to be an alternative source of news for activists and ordinary stiffs, news which you don't read in the 'mainstream' press.

The 'comment' facility to posted articles isn't much use for proper debate anyway, not least because it's not threaded, so it's a crap place to have discussions. I agree that a forums site should be set up, closely linked to the news site, so that people can debate news and events.

G

Gerry
mail e-mail: gerry.gerbil@gmail.com

the censorship of signal often smears it as noise - but why censor when . . . .

03.07.2006 18:18

without the achievment of - or even apparent INTENTION of - proactive editorial coherence - e.g. ensuring indymedia had regular(weekly), informed comment from , say, nuj, cnd, solidarity groups, round-ups of news from different bits of the spectrum, a daily "what the papers say" digest of the "straight" (sponsored) press, the priorities + say, comment on the infowar themes of the week , with the serious effort that goes into "copy-chasing"( - ie, the hard, coherent responsible side of editing)THIS IS ABUSE OF POWER .CENSORSHIP. YOU AINT "FLOODED", WE CAN WEED TOO. Some of the things that disappear from this "open" newswire - even further than "hidden" - have a lot of people in wonder at what the f*** s happening. Is this "in the way" to stop us all producing , presenting, popularising then distributing "the news" we need, or are we all about to take stock, stop the censorious idiocy ( - or minderbinder kick back shite ? - cos it meksme wonder sometimes - too ) + support each other to make the bad news bite, n the good news sing - or, to quote the sacred "bladerunner" - "we're stupid + we'll die".
in what way is lobster mag - a radical, unprofit news mag, different from say, schnews, or a fundraising gig, "imcista". Take your frustration out a different way - perhaps question your reactions - "everybody, everybody, ANYBODY can get "got to" around the edges - "l'etat c'est chacun/ the (corruptexsecret?)cop-in-YOUR-head . . . . or overwork?
SOMEBODY REMINDING PEOPLE THAT "LOBSTER 51" MAGAZINE IS OUT - GETTING DISPARU FROM INDYMEDIA - T H A T IS ODD. WORRYING ODD.

your name