7 July 2005 FEAR, TERROR and LIES. There were no suicide bombers.
dizzy | 30.06.2006 11:47 | Terror War
Images of the 'bombed' bus show that it was not a suicide attack. The official narrative is proved to be false.
dizzy
Homepage:
http://blogs.cjb.net/dissident/
Comments
Hide the following 54 comments
could you clarify
30.06.2006 13:12
Based on what exactly?
er, your proof?
30.06.2006 15:21
sid
Here it is
30.06.2006 15:41
dizzy
images
30.06.2006 15:53
Images from
anon
I know where the dead & injured are
30.06.2006 17:26
We shall look back with fond nostalgia at the time when we had a National Health Service.
Mike Dobson
e-mail:
michael.dob871@onetel.net
,
30.06.2006 18:18
Furthermore in your blog you state:
"The bus 'bombing' was too dramatic, too Hollywood, too directed, too over the top. Things don't really happen like you see on television or at the movies. It is fiction."
Your argument seems to be
1. That the injured or dead should be left on the bus for several hours.
2. The bombing was too good.
The first one is a poor argument, the dead and injured would have been taken off straight away. The second one is just too bizzare for words
Try again.
,
Sadly Familiar ...
30.06.2006 19:23
After the same people who LIED about Iraq were caught in several LIES about this incident, I don't understand how anyone could simply take their Conspiracy Theory on faith alone, without investigation and evidence.
As is the case with the still-unexplained events of 9/11.
Bliar used this attack to seize powers that had been denied him by the courts for four years.
Sensing a Pattern?
al Qaeda = CIA/Mossad/MI6
nutters
30.06.2006 20:05
The continual fiuxation of a few yank deaths rather than the ongoing Iraqi deaths is implicitly racist, and inking to racist websitesl ike Rense suggests you'd be better suited spouting your guff on neo-nazi websites where you belong. You are tired, disruptive, inactive, dull and hypocritcal, and that suits only the powers that be, the powers that are currently murdering huindereds of thousands. Not that you give a fuck about those non-americans.
Danny
Hey Fascist War Criminals
30.06.2006 20:19
Blair & Co must go.
dizzy
al Qaeda = CIA/Mossad/MI6
30.06.2006 21:34
You are fucking boring beyond belief... and even more stupid.
The Sinister Cabal of REAL activists
Time stamp
30.06.2006 21:53
Something's amiss, or a question or two needs answering
dh
Again ...
30.06.2006 22:23
Looks like you've made the Plant nervous again.
After the same people who LIED about Iraq were caught in several LIES about this incident, I don't understand how anyone could simply take their Conspiracy Theory on faith alone, without investigation and evidence.
As is the case with the still-unexplained events of 9/11.
Bliar used this attack to seize powers that had been denied him by the courts for four years.
Sensing a Pattern?
al Qaeda = CIA/Mossad/MI6
Same day according to here
30.06.2006 22:31
dh
Right for Rense
30.06.2006 22:33
thanks for bringing those photographs to light, that is the best proof that the official narrative is false so far, you post it at rense.com. There is photographic evidence of who was actually behind the attack that you should post on as many forums as possible:
You should do a follow up article for Rense.com following up on the whole 6th of June thing now a month on. Has anyone checked if any of the babies born on that day have showed any demonic tendencies - projectile vomiting, red eyes , whatever. Also, now that the Illuminati haven't invaded Iran to mark Hitlers birth or the new antichrists birth, we're going to have to get a new numerological explanation ready for whenever they do invade Iran, if you can think of anything let me know.
Will The Antichrist Be Born On 6-6-6, Or 6-16? Or Has He Already Come On 6-1-6? 6-5-6
The dreaded date June 6, 2006 (6-6-6) has many expectant mothers-to-be becoming hysterical when they learned that their child who was scheduled to be born on that terrible day and might, indeed, be the Antichrist.
If the Neocons have chosen an auspicious date to expand their globalist designs, why not April 30th, the anniversary of the Illuminati and Hitler's death? After all, what could be a more significant date? Sure, I know: June 6th, 2006. 666.
best regards,
JR
JR
numerological inaccuracy
30.06.2006 22:47
Listen up to the proper stuff rather than trying to overlay us with your ignorant fantasies
dh
Enough of replying to rank stupidity
30.06.2006 22:58
Has anyone an answer?
dh
Enough of replying to rank stupidity
30.06.2006 23:38
This shit is the evidential equivalent of scrying and tealeaf reading.
Chomsky supporter
.
01.07.2006 00:14
Something's amiss, or a question or two needs answering "
The time stamps are under the BBC World logo. BBC world does not broadcast in the UK so your notion of 7 mins to clear the bus is wrong, it could be the time in Tokyo or Paris.
The only questions that needs answering are why on earth you wasted your energy on trying to get 2+2 to equal 5.
There are plenty of images of the bus just after the explosion, you will notice the number of people around th vehicle in yellow jackets.
..
You don't need eyes to see, you need vision
01.07.2006 01:29
parallax
Jesus this is tiresome.
01.07.2006 09:07
The Plant
I thought conspiracy theorists do not believe BBC reports
01.07.2006 15:04
Were all the victims imaginary then?
Good grief
conspiracies
01.07.2006 17:50
I have listened to Jeff Rense a bit, and I do not believe he places any specific emphasis on 7/7 conspiracies. Once in a while he has some good (interesting) guests like Dahr Jamail who reports on the situation in Iraq, and also has also had reports from Dr Mohammed Miraki who reports on the situation in Afghanistan which I have NOT seen elsewhere.
Mohammed Miraki articles on Rense.com:
Death Made In America - Wondering if your conscience is still anesthetized (
and Americans - Many Evil And Stupid People.htm (
Dahr Jamail reports also appear on his own website at
Another comment above says this:
"The time stamps are under the BBC World logo. BBC world does not broadcast in the UK so your notion of 7 mins to clear the bus is wrong, it could be the time in Tokyo or Paris."
Yes it is important to check facts and people into conspiracies should check the facts and present references where possible. In this case, though, the timestamp looks like it is BEHIND the BBC-added logos and captions. The next issue to look at is whether the time on the camera was set to the correct time. However I would say that if I was a survivor of a bomb attack and if the seven minutes is correct (I haven't checked the time of the bombing) then I don't think I would want to be hanging around for that long just to see if another bomb goes off!
Brian B
Don't do this to yourself Brian
01.07.2006 20:19
I realise there are more pundits than players here nowadays, but IM does aspire to journalistic pretensions so lets apply some journalistic rigour please. For a start, there is no indication of where and when the images came from, and indeed their source was misrepresented and their implications assumed as obvious proof. Secondly, they are as unclear as can be - they are lower quality than even a TV screengrab. Are there bodies / blood in those pictures ? God knows. Third, even if they did show a lack of obvious injury at the scene at the time indicated, there is no evidence to show the clock was genuine instead of photoshopped or accurate rather than wrong. Even if you could prove clock had been set that and the photos did show what you claim, that is a tiny fact to way up against the mass of evidence provided by first hand evidence. It proves nothing and for you to suggest it has means you are not a rational person and not trustworthy on an action. I wouldn't risk myself getting arrested getting arrersted at any action but thnakfully very few people that dim ever step outside their bedrooms.
Third, you say Rense has said things that impress you. Even an idiot says sensioble things if they talk long enough but you are able to identify idiots like Rense by the idiotic things that they publish, such as the Nostradamus/ Loch Ness monster/ eschatolgical religious revelations - never mind the pro-nazi bile. Now, the third reason alone is enough for me to dismiss you as a crank/sap.
Sure, you think I'm too cynical for not believing everytjing you want to beleive, so be it. You trhink the photos are proof of something ? Go do something about it, organise an action or a demo, whatever, and then you may - just may - have something to report on an activist website. Otherwise you just seem like one more soon-to-be-sectioned stay-at-home who has been made stupider by the internet. All you folk who want to believe such obvious crap, please go back to the 'moon-landings were faked' sites and other such junior school nonsense.
If IM is an counter-culture response to the Times/Guardian filtered truthes, Rense is a counter-culture response to the Sunday Sport. Do you really think you'll find the truth about 911 et al on a site which publishesout-of-date prophecies ? Ouch.
Danny
PS Oh, and by the way you end-of-the-worlders, Mabus was Zarqawi ! Musab - geddit ? Run for the hills !! Best place for you.
Danny
Chimpy Bush gave his "heads-up" to the London bombers...
01.07.2006 21:00
Alan
a good way to proceed
02.07.2006 00:04
How they square with other ground level photos of people seemingly strangely swarming all over the top deck of the bus shortly after the explosion
To demand to know why so little cctv footage of the tube and bus bombings is available
To proceed with an independent inquiry, preferably not a Hutton-style Blair-sucker type stunt, and in line with the conspiracy denying survivors wishes with all this kind of evidence, and the huge amount of visual evidence currently withheld - for example the only identifiable cctv shots are of Hasib Hussain 3 times- nothing of the other three alleged bombers is identifiable
The official account is a crock
Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmeds book 'The London Bombings' at least starts to ask the pertinent questions
dh
Go to this site...
02.07.2006 11:02
Then, click on 'amateur footage' on the lower right of the page, then click on 'bus blast scene caught on camera phone.
I think you will find there were bodies very close to the scene. Seriously, what are people saying here, that there was no-one on the bus. It is ludicrous - 'conclusive proof there were no suicide bombers' - my arse.
Good grief
reply danny
02.07.2006 11:28
I never suggested that (it was the original poster) so please don't misrepresent me. If you persist in this kind of slander to discredit others then obviously no-one would want to work with them. If that is what you want to achieve then congratulations (and perhaps more people will be massacred in Iraq and Afghanistan as a result). I believe posts like yours that throw as much mud in the hope that some of it sticks should be hidden.
"Third, you say Rense has said things that impress you."
No I never used that word. Another misrepresentation.
"Now, the third reason alone is enough for me to dismiss you as a crank/sap."
Another insult. Another reason to hide your comments if you can't post rational words.
"Sure, you think I'm too cynical for not believing everytjing you want to beleive, so be it. You trhink the photos are proof of something ?"
No again a misrepresentation. I never said they proved anything.
"Otherwise you just seem like one more soon-to-be-sectioned stay-at-home who has been made stupider by the internet."
Aah..another insult.
Basically you discredit yourself by using all these insults against anyone you disagree with. You talk about action action action and try to impress by talking about risking arrest. Maybe you should consider the fact that NOT ALL CAMPAIGNING ENTAILS RISK OF ARREST and that GETTING ARRESTED IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY MORE EFFECTIVE and I hope others can see this also.
Brian B
don't reply Brian
02.07.2006 14:19
"I have listened to Jeff Rense a bit, and I do not believe he places any specific emphasis on 7/7 conspiracies."
I never suggested rense concentrates on 7/7 conspiracies, I suggested the site hosted nazi guff, which it does. Not that I'd suggest it concentrates on nazi guff, but I would suggest that guff discredits rense - and anyone like you who quotes rense as a source - as much as the Loch Ness Monster/alien/Jesus-told-me-to-do-it/Armageddon bullshit that he also publishes. Why doesn't rense ask one of the 346 psychics mentioned on his site to ask Jesus what happened on 7/7 like they did with 911 ? Or why don't they manipulate the numbers of the trains and bus to prove it was an illuminatti numerolgical signature, just like 911 ?
Okay, you never said you were impressed with the site, but you admitted you listen to rense and couldn't find anything to criticise about him, and you were obviously impresssed enough to link to his site. You know, I bet I could find a sensible article on the BNP site if I read enough of it, and took it out of context. I wouldn't wish to though and wouldn't take anyone seriously who did. Same with rense. So in my opinion you have proven yourself a sap or a crank - or a latent nazi, although I was too polite to point that out earlier. How open is your mind - are some of your best friends nazis ?
"Basically you discredit yourself by using all these insults against anyone you disagree with."
My actions give me credit or discredit not my words. I don't insult everyone I disgree with, just the obviously iredeemable fools like those who think rense is a valid source. I am happy to insult you since you insult my intelligence by linking to rense. The original poster, though obviously a bear-of-little-brain, at least had the commonsense not to try and defend Rense.
I do try not to get arrested nowadays but if you aren't prepared to spend some time inside you don't really believe in your cause. Obviously, if you've read a lot of rense then you stand the extra risk of being sectioned in a secure mental institution rather than just prison. Campainging for a proper 7/7 enquiry would be an admirable use of your time but endlessly filling up activist websites 7/7 speculation full of embarrassing evidence, unthought-through speculation and links to nutter sites is not. It knocks real activist activities from the visible newswire and you know fine well there are a thousand conspiracy forums for you folk to post on to your hearts content.
Danny
Who links to nazi sites ?
02.07.2006 14:55
"It is no coincidence that these events were detailed more than a century ago in the best-kept secret in America, The Protocols of the Members of the Elders of Zion. It's all there in this New Testament from the Abyss of Zionism. What's going on is the fulfillment of the Protocols in America. Jews discredit the Protocols as anti-Semitic forgery and/or fiction. But are they? They seem more like the Pentagon Papers of their time. They are no fiction but the fearsome product of a superlative mind, intelligent, learned, sophisticated and invisible (James Rothschild?), an evil amalgam of Machiavelli, Hobbs, Kafka, Huxley and Orwell. America ignores the Protocols at its great peril. "
.
The Absolute Best Authentications Of The Protocols Of Zion
"Although they lay claim to Jewish heritage, those "Jews" who play the world domination game are in effect no longer Jewish by religion in that their strategy is in direct contradiction with the Ten Commandments, the real pillar of the Hebrew religion. That they have "Jewish" genetic heritage is really of no importance,"
The Protocols Of Zion Updated
"The Rothschilds set up the Illuminati in 1776 to subvert the Christian basis of Western Civilization. They took over much of Freemasonry and used it to infiltrate all social institutions. Mouthing words like "freedom," "equality" and "progress," they are bent on melding family, race, religion, and nation into a malleable mush. Their world police state, now called "globalization," lies behind the facade of "The Patriot Act" and "The War on Terror."
Freemasonry's Final Revelation
"But obviously an occult cabal of bankers and other wealthy people is bent on enslaving humanity. Many are Jews who seem to follow the primitive Talmudic injunction to rule the world and usurp all its wealth, as outlined in The Protocols. Many Jews wittingly or unwittingly serve this agenda, as do many non-Jews. Most Jews are not party to this monstrous plan, would oppose it, and are themselves victims of it."
The Endless War Between Christ-Haters And Christ-Lovers
"Jews who were after converts and were earnest in controlling and keeping those converts by their false propaganda about Jesus, stopped their aggressive proselytizing by/before the early Middle Ages when it was apparent that Christians had won when most countries and states in the "battle-field" had adopted Christianity as their state religion and had Christian rulers over them. Jews adopted then a different tactic, that of infiltrating secretly Christianity and destroying/weakening it from inside, some of those infiltrators were able even to become popes. After adopting this new tactic Jews put a stop to their proselytizing activities."
Protocols, ADL And Mind Control
"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is the work of a Jewish Masonic secret society. Caught red-handed, they attempted to confuse the issue of world domination with anti-Semitism. The vast majority of Jews is not aware let alone in favor of this plot for world government by a small "Jewish" financial elite and their Masonic allies."
NaziPunksFuckOff
Diversion by leftbrain dominant thought police
02.07.2006 21:48
Hey man, you're the Nazi, or rather the wannabe Stalinist keeping the activist troops in order by trying to impose your world-narrowing gulag of the mind, which in fact demands acceptance of the information pouring out of the fascist state and its controlled media
Don't ever go there comrades, don't think outside our left or anarchist faq guidelines
Tough buddies, untold numbers of people are awakening to this false reality construct, and smelling the stench of the horseshit that passes for information
You are being bypassed
dh
And for godssake read this book
02.07.2006 23:19
Justifies most of the questions on here and more
dh
2nd reply Danny
02.07.2006 23:24
Exactly I never did say that. I did not 'admit' because it is not a crime to say that I have listened to someone's radio programme. I just said I have listened to some of his programmes. You have also just invented an idea that I have no criticisms of Jeff Rense's programmes. I have not said that. I may or may not agree with some of the things he or his guests have said. I like to keep an open mind and look at all sorts of information. Jeff is basically a human being, therefore is not perfect, has various guests which he may agree or not agree with - he is at least doing something - yes taking action. Since the start of the Iraq war I came to realise that the BBC especially is pro-establishment propoganda, other mainstream sources can also be disinformation. With Rense (as with any alternative information sources), some of it I agree with, some I don't, some of it I decide not to make a judgement of if I am not qualified to do so. If you want to get to the truth then you sometimes have to read some ideas that you may disagree with to get to the good stuff basically, and can't expect to just get it from sources that hand to you on a silver plate just the information you agree with. Do some thinking of your own, be critical of the information.
"My actions give me credit or discredit not my words."
Actually the words anyone uses are a part of their actions.
"I am happy to insult you since you insult my intelligence by linking to rense."
An admission that you are being deliberately insulting and happy to do so, and this DOES discredit your position.
"The original poster, though obviously a bear-of-little-brain, at least had the commonsense not to try and defend Rense."
That is an insult to the original poster (which I did not do). Although I disagreed I merely tried to point out that I would not hang around for seven minutes. I also said in my reply to you that the photos did not prove anything. To suggest that the original post is better than everything on the JR (Jeff Rense) site is ludicrous (unless you want to promote information that is easily discredited).
"I do try not to get arrested nowadays but if you aren't prepared to spend some time inside you don't really believe in your cause."
NOT true. Getting arrested would not necessarily get ANY results. If I did decide to risk arrest to protest the immoral massacres in Iraq and Afghanistan then I would have to do it with full knowledge of the legal issues which I do not currently have. I am not a lawyer just a normal everyday person (pawn to the self-appointed corrupt leaders of the state).
"Obviously, if you've read a lot of rense then you stand the extra risk of being sectioned in a secure mental institution rather than just prison."
...More rabid ranting.
Brian B
Homepage:
http://www.brianb.uklinux.net/antiwar-discuss/
Rense is provably more Nazi than the BNP
03.07.2006 03:33
Hitler was basically a human being, therefore was not perfect. It's always an education arguing with an idiot.
"he is at least doing something - yes taking action."
You really don't have a clue what an activist is do you ? At least the concentration camp is doing something...
"Do some thinking of your own, be critical of the information. "
Ha ! Classic ! You've just linked to a site that promotes the Protocols of Zion and the world Jewish conspiracy and you tell me to be critical of information...what a dunce...where is your criticism of the information ?
Brian, you are dangerously stupid. You are too right-wing for the BNP - even Nick Griffin describes the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as an 'anti-Semitic forgery' and slangs a website that links to them. In other words, Rense is more Nazi than the BNP, and you are thicker than Nick Griffin, so I'm wasting my breathe trying to educate you.
Danny
You Plants Are Running Out Of Steam ...
03.07.2006 07:24
Looks like you've made the Plant nervous again.
After the same people who LIED about Iraq were caught in several LIES about this incident, I don't understand how anyone could simply take their Conspiracy Theory on faith alone, without investigation and evidence.
As is the case with the still-unexplained events of 9/11.
Bliar used this attack to seize powers that had been denied him by the courts for four years.
Sensing a Pattern?
al Qaeda = CIA/Mossad/MI6
ad hominum attacks
03.07.2006 09:09
Bacofoil
Go ahead caller, I'm listening...
03.07.2006 13:41
Paranoia
In popular culture, the term paranoia is usually used to describe excessive concern about one's own well-being, sometimes suggesting a person holds persecutory beliefs concerning a threat to themselves or their property and is often linked to a belief in conspiracy theories.
Paranoia 'a widespread problem'
One in three people in the UK regularly suffers paranoid or suspicious fears, clinical psychologists have found.
Remember paranoid thoughts are common
Share thoughts with trusted others
Imagine another person's perspective
Do not treat thoughts as facts and think of alternative explanations for events
Try not to ruminate on the thoughts
Do not let the thoughts stop you from doing what you want to do
Remember the positive things about yourself
The probability that your fears are unrealistic increases the more you feel that:
* No one else fully shares your suspicions
* There is no indisputable evidence to support your worries
* There is evidence against your suspicions
* It is unlikely that you would be singled out
* Your fears persist despite reassurance from others
* Your fears are based on feelings and ambiguous events
Dr Dan
3rd reply Danny
03.07.2006 19:07
I hope that you have proof of JR (Jeff Rense) running concentration camps if you are making that kind of allegation. If you want to know about concentration camps then look no further than Guantanamo Bay.
Links from the Jeff Rense website current front page:
Guantanamo Prisoners Did Not Commit Suicide
High Court Stops War Crimes Trials For Gitmo Detainees
"You've just linked to a site that promotes the Protocols of Zion and the world Jewish conspiracy and you tell me to be critical of information..." "...where is your criticism of the information ?"
You are trying to discredit my position my making false claims about me. You have just invented an idea that I have not been critical of the information on Jeff Rense when you do not know. Your tactics are so obvious I am sure other Indymedia readers can see it also. I sometimes read articles that I disagree with including the propaganda that comes from the BBC. I read information from a variety of sources including Indymedia and others. Your continuous insults are an abuse of the open nature of the Indymedia posting policy - which should be hiding your comments.
Brian B
Homepage:
http://www.brianb.uklinux.net/antiwar-discuss/
only nazis and nutters link to rense
03.07.2006 19:46
I'm not trying to discredit you for I'm too late. You linked to Rense as a source and discredited yourself by that action. I merely pointed out why you had discredited yourself. If you'd linked to the BNP website I would also have criticised you. Rense.com is more nazi than the BNP website as I've proven. You make no comment on that, saying you can take good information from a dubious source. Presumably if someone shat in your punchbowl you could still enjoy the punch. I draw the line at Nazism myself, I'm just conditioned I suppose. And really, that's where conspiracy-theorists should be targetting their efforts, on the BNP, anarchists are just too used to questioning everything to believe your spiel. Especially for you to claim a self-publicising Sunday Sport type like Jeff Rense is active ! Activiely raking it in.
Danny
Eh, Brian
03.07.2006 20:44
Amused
anarchists?
03.07.2006 21:48
Some anarchist, some smug little prick
Conspiracy theorists should target the BNP?
Here we go then, when the intelligence services see a train leave the station, they feel compelled to jump aboard.
The BNP and its various little nazi offshoots is undoubtedly infiltrated and bought off in its top ranks by MI5, just like the various versions of the IRA were, while the loyalist paramilitaries were taking orders direct from the FRU
Anything the BNP,NF,C18 do will be guided by the central government real Nazi state
I sometimes feel that anarchists, though supposedly decentralised, have some manipulation in their collective maw via etheric means, they sometimes seem so dumb
I speak as a conspiracy-spotting anarchist myself
Please don't FAQ me
dh
4th reply Danny
03.07.2006 22:58
No actually it was you that first mentioned Rense - as a way to discredit the original post. This was completely disingenuous considering that the original post did not even mention it. I merely commented on your comment. You have exposed your own tactics.
"See that Al-Jazheera link mate......you know that it's not the REAL Al-J, don't you? It's just a crappy bundle of conspiracy theories masquerading under the name to fool people."
It's just a conspiracy theory... Guantanamo Bay doesn't exist. Your leaders are your friends! Yes you are correct that particular site isn't the real Al Jazeera. The 'real' Al Jazeera is likely already infiltrated from top to bottom (if it wasn't already from the start), but I probably wasn't supposed to mention that was I.
Fathers of Guantanamo jail ‘suicides’ question US report
Vital organs missing from repatriated body: family
or would you prefer to accept the BBC version:
If that isn't good enough then I am very sorry if the news hasn't entered Guardian(of the Blair regime)-space yet.
Brian B
Homepage:
http://www.brianb.uklinux.net/antiwar-discuss/
Eh, Brian (RE:anonymous amused)
03.07.2006 23:42
More on this (as the original link was not good enough for you):
‘Yasser’s Body Bears Marks of Beating’
Gitmo detainee buried after body cross-examined
"... the deceased’s throat is missing and the delegation will need to request it from U.S. authorities in order to clarify if Al-Salami hung himself or was killed."
"In an statement earlier last week, Najeeb Ghanem, former Minister of Health and head of Parliament’s Health and Population Committee, declared that Al-Salami’s body was emptied of all that could provide information about his death, including his blood vessels, bowels, brain, heart and liver, which he alleged U.S. specialists intentionally removed."
Tarek Dergoul: Another Guantanamo Whitewash
Suicide?
"With regard to the possibility of this having taken place in isolation, then this action was done in Camp I, and in Camp I there is only one isolation block, that being India. This isolation block consists of 24 cells, and it is made up in such a way that it is impossible to hang anything, let alone even the wildest of thoughts that you could hang yourself. You could probably just about thread a piece of string through the mesh. So in terms of the isolation block in Camp I, it is impossible for them to have hung themselves there."
Cageprisoners: Released Detainees Refute US Guantanamo Suicide Cover Up
"Tarek Dergoul, who spent significant time with two of the deceased, provides the first in depth insight into their time in Guantanamo. He describes both Manei al-Otaibi and Yasser al-Zahrani as having indefatigable spirits, never once discussing or contemplating suicide, and being the foremost in their lack of cooperation with their captors and long term committed hunger strikers; leading them to be punished by frequent reprisals and beatings by guards."
Brian B
wrong again Brian
04.07.2006 00:25
I mentioned rense first on this thread as an example of an unnewsworthy site, a site not only full of nutter theories but full of nazi material.
And then you chose to link to it [2] - without a word of warning to people how deeply dodgy that site is and without a subsequent word of condemnation.
I've included references since whatever else you are, you certainly misrepresent what has been said repeatedly enough.
I'll leave you to learn what you can from Rense on the London bombings / 911 illuminati / UFOs / Loch Ness monster /Jewish conspiracy / holocaust revisionism investigations, and look forward to reading lots of stunning evidence and incredible exposes in your following posts.
I'm afraid I've having to go out now to prepare an action now, sorry "play at being activists, save the whale and jolly hockey sticks"
Nothing you'd be interested in obviously but if I see a UFO or a lizardman I'll update you.
[1]
[2]
Danny
Your Actions Identify You
04.07.2006 05:36
Certainly, if someone simply disagrees. If that person has been observed consistently being belligerent and obtuse, strictly for the purpose of disrupting debates he, or the people he's defending or possibly working for, doesn't want to see taking place, then that person (you) is a Plant, and should be identified as such.
It is your Tactics which give you away ...
"You are a hypocrite and you nver provide any evidence"
The evidence you demand is out of my range, and that is a Red Herring, intended to manipulate what I'm actually saying, change the subject, and disguise the fact that the Conspiracy Theory you're here defending lacks appropriate evidence, and the people concerned ARE in a position to obtain it - if it existed ...
I simply acknowledge that the situation demands serious, objective investigation, as you know. We still do not know what happened, nor who was responsible, which suggests an inside job and subsequent cover-up. We DO know that the War Criminals who fed us the Theory in question routinely LIE to get what they want, and are willing to sacrifice innocent life in the pursuit of their agenda, since they regard the lives of the average person to be worthless.
Your impossible demands are Disinformation, hence the title I've correctly given you. Useful Idiots like you have flooded sites like this since 2001.
"Come on, clarify your position here Jordan - do you really believe there was no one on the bus, as has been claimed above?"
Who? (Kinda gives you away ... and no, you don't frighten me, coward)
No, I simply acknowledge that the LIARS and Neo-Fascists currently in Government cannot be trusted, and this too closely mirrors the unexplained and most likely False Flag attacks of 911, and they've been abused in the same fashion.
Ad Hominem Attacks are Disinformation, which demonstrates your intellectual emptiness, and inability to address the legitimate concerns about the attacks, and the LYING Regime's unsupported Conspiracy Theory.
Looks like you've made the Plant nervous again.
After the same people who LIED about Iraq were caught in several LIES about this incident, I don't understand how anyone could simply take their Conspiracy Theory on faith alone, without investigation and evidence.
As is the case with the still-unexplained events of 9/11.
Bliar used this attack to seize powers that had been denied him by the courts for four years.
Sensing a Pattern?
al Qaeda = CIA/Mossad/MI6
What?
04.07.2006 10:25
What exactly is your evidence that I am a spook then? The fact that you use the same old stock phrases over and over again, makes you readily identifiable, 'liars who brought you Saddam has WMD' 'false flag in Basra' etc - it is hardly rocket science. And as for me being beligerant and obtuse, I do not recall even having many online discussions with you, so where did you get that from and you are hardly in a position to call anyone obtuse.
And what is all this 'I am not afraid of you, coward' shite. I do not even know what you are on about there - you ought to get out more, mate!
Bacofoil
Insane and sick
04.07.2006 13:25
Oh, ye of little faith, don't suggest Rense isn't thorough-
An Illuminati Ordered 'Terrorist' Attack In London
Today is 7/ 7 2005 {2+5} or 777, a "perfect" day for the insane Illuminati to do one of their dirty deeds. One thing the Illuminati are into is rituals and numbers. The Illuminati like to leave their secret markings on their crimes. Remember 911?
STOP THE SICK INSANE ILLUMINATI GANGSTERS AND KILLERS NOW!
If nothing else it proves one thing, these morons are beyond parody.
ProofReader
'Eternal Allure Of Adolf'
04.07.2006 15:14
Nazi cartoon recycled for Renses frontpage
On the front page of rense.com you can read of 'The Strange, Mysterious Eternal Allure Of Adolf Hitler', which tells us "Hitler's hostile attitude to Jews was neither irrational nor aberrant". You'll find that article under the Protocols of Zion link, under the cartoon of the Jewish octopus ensnaring the earth, a classic Nazi image. Rense isn't trying to hide his politics. It shows just how efffective even such crude propaganda can be when people can link to it on activist websites and expect to go unchallenged. Anyone who links to Rense uncritically should be treated as if they linked to StormFront. Delusional, dodgy and dangerous.
Chanel
What a Laugh
04.07.2006 19:00
Okay, urm, you can't prove your hypothesis and anyone who asks for proof is a plant. Let's ask you an oft repeated question - if there is no proof, then how did you manage to land at the conclusion there was a conspiracy/stitch up/inside job (delete as applicable).
Unless, of course, you had a predetermined view on matters and simply fitted what you considered to be the facts to suit.....hmm, I wonder.....
Amused
Re:'Eternal Allure Of Adolf'
04.07.2006 22:12
If you wished to provide more information on this then it would be interesting, if it really is a classic Nazi image. I interpreted that as being symbolic of Zionism not Judaism. I have only read articles on other topics at the Rense site (with perhaps one or two exceptions). I am not an expert on politics and not student of the history of Nazi propaganda so cannot be expected to know this. If the abusive poster wanted to point out some real facts with references to help (or even write an article to explain why he would want to warn people off the Rense website), then he could have done so. Instead he chose to launch into an attack and hurl a load of abuse and insults. I accept that you have not done this. That poster also mentioned that he discussed Rense on another topic, but there was no way for me to have known this, which would explain why I posted those links. I will of course continue to read a wide variety of information that I agree with or disagree with (bits on Rense included once in a while, until I see a reason not to).
By the way, I am sorry to other reader of the site for having to read all my replies, but basically if someone makes these kinds of incorrect accusations - that I am a Nazi, worse than the BNP without any proof, then I have a right to reply. If Indymedia cannot hide these comment which are actually slanderous then I have to reply. Indymedia activists are usually hot on the trail of any inappropriate comments, I don't understand how this kind of abuse can be allowed. If I knew more about the law then I would possibly consider taking legal action against the continued publication of these slanderous remarks on Indymedia UK.
The other poster also said this:
"I'm afraid I've having to go out now to prepare an action now, sorry "play at being activists, save the whale and jolly hockey sticks"
Nothing you'd be interested in obviously"
There he has made an clear assumption that I am not interested. I may actually be interested in various issues.
"Anyone who links to Rense uncritically should be treated as if they linked to StormFront. Delusional, dodgy and dangerous."
I would have though it more 'just' to discover the persons intentions first before deciding to treat someone in this way.
People can complain about conspiracy theorists if they like but as I said I sometimes see useful information of sites that many of those people would consider to be conspiracy-related. It was because of information on these sites that I KNEW in my mind that the immoral, criminal Iraq war would go ahead at a time when other news outlets did not give me that information and persisted in the argument that nothing had been decided yet - even up to the day before the war. BBC did not tell me that, Guardian, Independent, Indymedia (or any other activist website) did not tell me that. So no-one can say that I should not look for alternative sources of information. It was because of this that I joined demonstrations against the war and the big ant-war march on March 15(?) 2003. And it was NOT the Stop the War Coalition that convinced me to do it, nor was it the local Stop the War group (although I support both). Without that information I would not have been compelled to join the march - the first time I had been on any political march.
As to the BNP which the other poster claims he could find useful information on their website if he tried. I have looked at it and found nothing useful on there. To me the BNP looks like a rubbish party and does not help to represent supporter of Britain. It might be useful to campain against the BNP. But people should understand the real reason for doing it. IT IS A PARTY THAT IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE NEO-LABOR PARTY OR THE CON-SERVATIVE PARTY in that it is serving the same globalist agenda to the others. The three major current purposes of the BNP are:
1) Whip up Islamophobic hatred in the people.
2) Whip up more Islamophobic hatred in the people.
3) Whip up even more Islamophobic hatred in the people.
This is serving the Blairite agenda perfectly and Blair has exploited these kinds of views in order to introduce more anti-freedom legislation and justify more attacks on (Muslim) political enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan. The same is being done here in Britain - a search-out and destroy mission with homes searched, political enemies put under surveillance, or incarcerated, shootings etc.
Brian B
Homepage:
http://www.brianb.uklinux.net/antiwar-discuss/
Well it brought in the numbers
05.07.2006 08:05
What was it about? Fuck knows
Oh actually about a binch of helicopter photos that show very little activity as the ground taken photos show a lot of activity
Just one of the many anomalies persistant from that day
dh
Je t'accuse, tu es un sap grande
05.07.2006 12:41
"I interpreted that as being symbolic of Zionism not Judaism."
The Star of David is widely recognised as a Jewish symbol and the cartoon was created in 1938 by a Nazi propagandist. The articles beneath it praising Hitler might have been a bit of an indication.
"I am not an expert on politics and not student of the history of Nazi propaganda so cannot be expected to know this."
Perhaps not but having failed to spot one piece of Nazi propaganda you should draw conclusions from its use and be more suspicious of right-wing imagery in future.
"I will of course continue to read a wide variety of information that I agree with or disagree with (bits on Rense included once in a while, until I see a reason not to)."
I would suggest if you can't identify an obvious Nazi cartoon you are unlikely to be able to identify the often subtler written propaganda of the far-right. Since you say you don't know much about Nazi propaganda you should certainly read up on it before going back to Rense. Read up especially on the second Chancellor of the Third Reich. The dangerous thing about propaganda is that, like advertising, it works, it has a pernicious effect on all of us unless we are constantly aware of it. Whatever few good articles you find browsing on Rense, you will have been subjected to other Nazi propaganda there without perhaps realising it, and you won't be able to link to them there anyway as most people know it is a Nazi site and regard Nazi sites as below contemptible. Posting Rense links here is the equivalent of posting pornography on a childrens website.
"if someone makes these kinds of incorrect accusations - that I am a Nazi, worse than the BNP without any proof, then I have a right to reply. If Indymedia cannot hide these comment which are actually slanderous then I have to reply. Indymedia activists are usually hot on the trail of any inappropriate comments, I don't understand how this kind of abuse can be allowed. If I knew more about the law then I would possibly consider taking legal action against the continued publication of these slanderous remarks on Indymedia UK."
It was Rense who was accused of being worse than the BNP. Please get Rense to sue me, I'd be happy to pass on my contact details to solicitors. In US courts where Rense would be suing the burden of proof is on Rense to prove he isn't worse than the BNP and I'd fly to the states to witness that spectacle.
If you want to sue me yourself, this is my quote you are going to have to prove is libellous, rather than slanderous :
"So in my opinion you have proven yourself a sap or a crank - or a latent nazi, although I was too polite to point that out earlier."
In British courts, the burden of proof would be on me to prove that I believe you to be either a crank, a sap or a latent Nazi. I could prove I believe this by simply repeating it on oath, you would need to prove that I am lying and that I really hold you in high regard. You'll need a good lawyer for that. If you do forward your complaint to a solicitor then please copy all correspondence here, partly to give me a chance to respond and partly as I'm sure it will be hilarious.
"As to the BNP which the other poster claims he could find useful information on their website if he tried. I have looked at it and found nothing useful on there."
The only reference to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on the BNP website is a condemnation of another website for linking to the 'anti-Semitic forgery'. Rense doesn't only not condemn the forgery, it not only links to them and praises their authenticity but hosts them as well. So if you had read that BNP article you would have learned something useful.
"The three major current purposes of the BNP are:
1) Whip up Islamophobic hatred in the people.
2) Whip up more Islamophobic hatred in the people.
3) Whip up even more Islamophobic hatred in the people. "
Indeed, New Labour and the Tories have stolen all the BNPs policies. However, since you sensibly see through this Islamophobia you should be similarly discriminating in avoiding other fascist tactics such as the evil-jews-rule-the-world nonsense prevalent on Rense.
See you in court, you sap, but read up on this first:
Danny
Jack Bayliss is a dick-slap
05.07.2006 14:56
Jack Bayliss is a dick-slap. Jack Bayliss is a gangster fraud with the morals of a concentration camp guard. Jack Bayliss is a sap.
Compare Jack Baylisses self-enrichment through his shameful role in the Kendall-Smith kangeroo court and the Italian courts who are pursuing the real war criminals.
The column said judge advocate Jack Bayliss had presided over a "kangaroo court" during the court martial of Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith and unfairly refused to allow to him put forward his defence. "Contrary to what the article suggested, Flight Lieutenant Kendall-Smith had in fact presented his defence to the court, but it was not put forward at trial as the judge had already ruled at a pre-trial hearing - at which Kendall-Smith was represented by leading counsel - that it did not amount to a defence in law," the statement read in open court said today.
The arrest of Marco Mancini, a director of a division of the Sismi military intelligence agency, was first leaked by judicial sources and later confirmed in a statement by former Italian President Francesco Cossiga. An Italian court has issued European arrest warrants for 22 suspected U.S. agents over the abduction, but no Italians had been sought until now.
I am so afraid that I listen to you,
your sun glassed protectors they do that to you.
It's their ways to detain, their ways to disgrace,
their knee in your balls and their fist in your face.
Yes and long live the state by whoever it's made,
sir, I didn't see nothing, I was just getting home late.
Danny
consider the children
06.07.2006 02:16
Do you ever think about what a lovely place the world would be without all the people that make life so unpleasant - all the small, petty people, all the ugly, annoying people ? It's hard not to think about it. I like to think about what could be done to these people. Something cruel, something mean, something just but the meaner the better.
Have you ever dreamed of killing all the stupid people ? Not just the unintelligent people but the sort that don’t know anything about anything but seem to have opinions about everything ? They’re only too ready to offer you their advice about how to run your life and yet look at how they run their own lives. For the most part they’ve accomplished nothing, they’ve contributed nothing, their lives are miserable, but they talk, talk, talk.
At the very least their tongue should be cut out - at the very least.
D'you ever want to kill all the people who tell lies ? Some certainly deserve it. Not necessarily the big liars or even those who teach lies as truth, I’m talking about people who say one thing and do another. Or who tell you they’ve sent something express mail and you know they haven’t.
Did you ever want to kill all the slow people in the world ? The people who are in front of you when they should be behind you. The crime that the swift should be held back by the slow and it's criminal that nothing is done to rectify it.
And what about all the really ugly people ? Add them to the list as well
Some people try not to think about life’s ugliness. I’ve thought about it, I’ve thought about it quite a lot. Something should be done to these people, something to make them suffer the way they’ve made us suffer. I say bring back the circus maximus for starters. Unless these weeds are dealt with they will poison everything, they are poisoning everything. We need a gardener, a brutal gardener, a thorough thoughtful gardener
Am I your gardener?
Old Lag indeed
Above photos taken on Monday 11th July
06.07.2006 11:57
Now perhaps the conspiracy muppets would care to bugger off back to Neo-Nazi land?
Reality Checker