The documentary about mark collett filmed in 2002 i believe proves that there are nazi sympathises and supporters in the BNP, it does not prove one jot that the BNP is a nazi party and to believe otherewise is political cretinism of the worst kind. The BNP is today increasingly a postmodernist fascist party which has jews in the party and a jewish councillor as well in Epping forest i believe named Patricia richardson. It also has links with sikh 's like Rajinder singh in an apparent common front against islam. It no longer marches on the street and stresses in it's propaganda racial difference and not superiority. We are not dealing with the old far right here we are dealing with a different beast which has to be dealt with in a different way, certainly nazi stereotyping and other duff propaganda will not work and has gotten the anti fascist movement like the searchlight groupies UAF nowhere and has not stopped the rise of the BNP one jot.

The BNP promote nazi hate rock bands, attend Klan white supremacist conferences, and the official policies on the website condemn mixed race marriages in a way which would have made the South African apatheid regime proud. Just because they have tone Asian and Jewish members, don't make them any less neo-Nazi.

Indymedia has become the voice of too many nazi apologists, which is so sad. People like Mark Collett himself, regularly post on the internet using false names, identities, etc, to water down any criticisn against the BNP.

And why did the free-speech-loving BNP join in the protests against Jerry Springer the Opera?

Perhaps the racist apologists could answer that one.

How come the BNP have so many criminals in their ranks?

War criminal and friend of Nick Griffin's Holocaust denial chum, ugly twat LePen, famously had a token black representative paid to endorse "repatriation" of black people from France, but this doesn't stop them from being nazis.

During the recent French anti-capitalist riots, mobs of LePen supporters attacked students and striking workers with baseball bats and boots, typical fascist benahviour, and yet, they are sadly major political players in France.

Anybody will say anything to get in power. Spin isn't just the secret weapon of Tony Blair. neo-Nazis use it, also.

Don't be fooled, indeed.

If they took power, they would use the police to ethnically cleanse Britian of minorities, just like what is happening under the current racist Franch government.

Complaceny is the biggest killer. Adolf Hitler failed to mention anything about The Holocaust when he got elected.

THE BNP ARE NAZIS AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS - DON'T BELIEVE THE SPIN OF THE INDYMEDIA-SAVVY NEO-NAZI PROPAGANDA MACHINE....

A couple of uncle toms including a non-practising supposed Jewish councillor in their ranks, doesn't prove nothing.

Whenever they are caught on camera, the leopards prove they haven't changed their spots.

They are neo-Nazi scum!!!

If I remember right, the BNP said before the world cup, in a press release that they "wanted England to win, but didn't like the fact they had black players, and wouldn't be cheering if a black man scored the winning goal".

If this isn't neo-Nazi or white supremacy, what the fucking hell is?

What ever happened to patriotism, you cretins?

We can completely ignore the token Sikh and Jew in the midst of the BNP. If they're stupid enough to be used by Griffin and co that's their problem - but token is all they are. Look at the fuss when Sharif Abdel Gawad was nominated to stand for the party: the Bradford organiser resigned and seven kinds of shit broke out in the ranks.  http://82.69.12.18/lancasteruafblog/index.php?itemid=151 The fact that Griffin has a particularly stupid friend who just happens to be a Sikh is irrelevant, as is the Richardson woman. Gawad caused such a lot of problems in the party that Griffin probably heaved a sigh of relief when he failed to become a councillor.

According to Steve le Fevre:
'We are not dealing with the old far right here we are dealing with a different beast which has to be dealt with in a different way, certainly nazi stereotyping and other duff propaganda will not work and has gotten the anti fascist movement like the searchlight groupies UAF nowhere and has not stopped the rise of the BNP one jot.'

It doesn't matter how you want to phrase it and it doesn't matter whether calling the BNP nazi is a Searchlight thing, an ANL thing, an SWP thing or a man from bloody Mars thing - the fact is that they ARE a bunch of nazis who, by concealing their real agenda, are gaining a small amount of power in local government. By correcting their lies and distortions and by calling them precisely what they are, we can stop a lot of people using them as a protest vote.

I'll agree with this Steve geezer over one thing - there are a LOT of ways of fighting the BNP - new ways have to be looked at as circumstances evolve and ANY way of fighting their filth has got something going for it. But the simple fact remains; they are a nazi party and telling the public the truth at least allows them to make an informed choice and (most frequently) back off from what may have been a tempting vote. Can you imagine what the BNP would be doing now if Searchlight, UAF, CARF and all the other anti-fascist groups out there (and there are a lot) had done and said nothing - they'd be ten times as big and a damn sight more powerful that they are right now.

Finally (sighs of relief all round) I'm just wondering about this 'duff propaganda' phrase. Where's the duff propaganda? Collett IS a posturing, Hitler-worshipping, little thug. Didn't you watch the film?

Mark Collett seemed like a confused young man. This program reminded me a lot of the film American History X, which is all about the same kind of thing, but set in the USA. It's weird that he seemed just like a normal young bloke (which he is in some ways) yet at the same time he's become part of this dangerous far-right cult / fanatical movement. He kind of almost seemed like a nice guy, when he wasn't spouting racist bullshit. It's important not to demonise these people. They are human beings just like us, with rounded personalities and stuff. And yet they've absorbed all these wrong ideas and all this hatred. How does shit like that happen?

Anyone used to watch The Catherine Tate Show on tv? I think it was that anyway. There was one sketch in which this middle aged middle england couple always tried to point out that they're not racist and then go on to tell an anecdote which reveals just how racist-to-the-bone they really are. "They made curry.... out of a goat. CURRY!!! Out of a GOAT!!!!! The dirty bastards.". Anyone seen that? Well, his parents reminded me of them. We're very very what you'd call centre, maybe verging just a little bit to the right, but we're really not exactly "right wing" are we dear?" "Well, I think we're just the silent majority in this in country". In other words right wing and racist to the core, just like all their fellow mail / express readers.

Legend has it, Collett was no use in bed, and couldn't hold down a relationship with the opposite sex, so he turned to fetishing Adolf Hitler, but rather than examining his sexual desires with an open mind, his homophobic childhood totally fucked him up. So he made do with secretly masturbating over his portrait of his dear late Fuhrer, in the privacy of his own bedroom. A bit like BNP founder Tyndall who bought himself a pair of real leather jackboots when he turned 18, but a whole lot stickier...

Shame Kleenex don't make tissues made with a swastika on them, for neo-nazi losers, in their time of need.

Most of the BNP trolls surfing Indymedia, during time off from neo-Nazi Stormponce, are Hitler-worshipper Mark Collett, and Nick Cass. Nick Cass (under a pseudonym), also posted a particularly foul racist message about Moss Side added onto an article about a protest against Strangeways prison, under the pseudonym "Fred": -

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/manchester/2006/04/338483.html?c=on

At the Nick Griffin and Mark Collett trial, Redwatch photographer Cass was the geek with the wanky camera who snapped pictures of the anti-Nazi protestors, for his internet scrapbook, so he would remember the names and faces of anybody who opposes fascism, like Nazis always do (remember the Gestapo)???

It's high time Indymedia edited and removed racist postings, before we turn into a fully-fledged neo-Nazi site ourselves.

Listen the Fash BNP are racist garbage no doubt about it, the question that has to be asked though is labelling them nazis when they are not the right approach to deal with them. For the last few years the UAF and their state friends at Searchlight have constantly called them this in their propaganda and also have called them thugs and criminals in their written propaganda and on television (as undoubtedly a minority are) and this have not stopped the BNP one jot, instead we have the pathetic sight of leftists gloating when the fash come second in byelections as if that is a triumph to be proud of. The neofascist BNP will not be defeated by searchlight and UAF'S duff propaganda but by changing tactics politically speaking. I think Larry o Hara's analysis in Notes from the borderland has good things to say on this matter. I recommend all check it out on his website www.borderland.co.uk

Your arguments aren't made any more palatable by snide and unnecessary comments about 'UAF and their state friends at Searchlight'. Lay off them and you might find people ready to debate.

I've read Larry's analysis carefully and mostly agree with it - in fact I'd recommend the current issue of Notes from the Borderland solely for that and the Lecomber article  http://www.borderland.co.uk/notes_from_the_borderland_006.htm - but the fact remains that there are disagreements on fundamental points, and one of those is whether to label the BNP nazi or not. Larry might think that's wrong and/or pointless but his opinion, however much it's based on experience of the problem, is only one of many.

My own view, for what it's worth, is that the word 'nazi' is anathema to most people, as are the criminal tendencies of most of the BNP hierarchy, and that the constant plugging of those two have a value when on the doorstep during an election campaign. I'll agree with him though (as I'm sure most people would) that those alone are not going to stop the BNP and the far-right in general gaining more apparent credibility.

Larry's analysis is way too long for me to type in here but I'll put in a bit of his summary. 'In the end, rather than mere opposition, we need a new social vision, articulating a self-sufficient equitable and sustainable decentralised model applicable to those working class communities written off by the established political and economic system.'

I don't think anyone would argue that BNP support comes largely from poorer working class areas and that the needs of the poor and working class have to be addressed before the BNP and their chums can be properly put to rest. But this is something that will require a fundamental change in the country - politically and socially - and frankly I don't see it happening in my immediate future. If that's true, other methods have to be used by those who are willing to take on the role of anti-fascist, and whatever methods they use to oppose groups like the BNP are, within reason, acceptable - including pinning the nazi label on them.

There's a lot of room for debate on this issue and probably not enough space on Indymedia's servers for all the different views on the best way (or ways) forward but if someone has a suggestion for how we can carry on the debate elsewhere - without interference - I'd be interested to hear it.

I think my comments on the UAF organisation are true, your organisation does work closely with searchlight and the police which in my opinion is not militant anti-fascism but collaboration with the state which is not in the interests of any anti-fascist movement. I would advise UAF to break their links with Searchlight and the police/special branch, Searchlight in particular which is a group that spies on the left as well as smearing them and build a proper anti-fascist movement free of and independent of the state.

Secondly if you think labelling the BNP nazis is a sucessful tactic on the doorstep how become they are growing in membership and are electorally more successful than ever. D'ont give me that nonsense that their success is down to Margaret hodge's comments or some other excuse, they are successful because they are increasingly appealing to the white working class which the left and the labour party have shit on and abandoned. Shame on you Mr lefty. Wake the fuck up before it is too late!!!!

I don't know why anyone tries to engage with idiots like this la fevre, whoever he is. He obviously hasn't read the reply to him and he's obviously not going to discuss or debate anything. That makes him a troll in my book. Too busy obsessing about Searchlight and where he put his tinfoil hat. Forget him. The debate is a good idea though.

The BNP are clearly a Nazi organisation dressed up as populist nationalists or Euro-Nationalists. And therefore it is clearly appropriate to pin the Nazi label on them.

However, Lancaster UAF say:

""I don't think anyone would argue that BNP support comes largely from poorer working class areas and that the needs of the poor and working class have to be addressed before the BNP and their chums can be properly put to rest. But this is something that will require a fundamental.....""

.....change to the middle class, politically correct, radical feminist, identity politics of the SWP. Maybe if the SWP spent more time campaigning in these poor white working class areas rather than berating them as "lumpen-scum" to quote Julie Waterson, then the BNP wouldn't be making the huge breakthrough it is.

The response of the moronic SWP is to create a Muslim party that will further alienate the white working class from the SWP's supposed "socialist" ideas. In fact, the SWP are not socialists, they are not Marxists and they are most definitely not revolutionaries. They are are whinging middle class freaks who could best be described as radical liberals.

Lancaster UAF have hit the nail on the head. The SWP are not prepared to campaign for improvements for the working class if they are white. In fact they are only prepared to campaign for ethnic minorities, particularly Muslims regardless of social class.

Therefore, this means that the SWP and their front groups like UAF have to find some other way of campaigning AGAINST the BNP, but without actually campaigning FOR white working people. This usually involves smear tactics and the involvement of trade unions, the Labour Party, other mainstream political parties and religious groups.

This is the reason why the BNP were poised to make a big breakthrough in Oldham five years ago, but are now defeated. But the SWP have also been defeated as well, because they are non-existent there. The Labour Party and the trade unions have re-asserted control in the area, and the SWP moved their opportunistic bandwagon down to Bethnal Green and Bow.

The fact is that people don't like the SWP or their politics, least of all the working class. And this quote seems to sum it up in one:

"Let's face it the middle class, politically correct screeching of the SWP is enough to turn anyone to fascism".

Nazis always threaten opponents with fear. The fact Nick Cass openly boasts he sends photos of anti-racist campaigners to Redwatch, proves once and for all, the BNP are neo-Nazis.

Proper political parties don't send out death threats to anyone who dares campaign against them.

George i have read the comments of Lancashire UAF and others on these boards and i have to say that i disagree with everything that has been said. I disagree with UAF and their categorisation of the BNP as nazi, evidently they seem unable to recognise that you can have a form of non-nazi fascism similar if not identical to Strasserism. They also do not seem to recognise why the BNP are making inroads into white working class support especially the poor working class which the left have disgracefully abandoned. The UAF seem to have no problem in collabarating with the state and their adjuncts like Searchlight magazine which is a publication no so called radical movement should touch with a bargepole. So george labelling me a troll just shows you have no answers to my concerns about the failed strategy of UAF and can only engage in petty abuse. How typical!!!

Steve la fevre

P.s George you want to know who i am, well i am an anti-fascist and socialist who is interested in being part of a militant anti-fascist movement which rejects collaboration with Searchlight and the state unlike you and your UAF mates who do not seem bothered about this collaboration at all. For info about Searchlight's pernicious role in smearing and spying on leftists see larry o hara's publication Searchlight for beginners, Searchlight fiction pulped available for order on www.borderland.co.uk .

If they are not Nazi why do they worship Hitler and make Hitler salutes? Plus, many attend KKK conferences, and neo-Nazi rallies in Germany, France, and pro-Franco parties in Spain? Why would a "non-nazi BNP" celebrate Rudolf Hess's birthday?