It is hard to see a way that christians or exsoldiers could get tricked into persecuting people for loving each other. To pile up rocks to stone people with is the sort of thing saul might have done, but not what paul did.
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem.
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem.
Some people seem to think that the tables that got overturned in the temple were "gay rights" stalls .... or perhaps some vested interests in society have distracted YOUR attention + aimed you at the wrong targets.
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
covert or overt, "weak" power or strength, height, authority. . . .e t c.
A lot of people dont hear the good things that some churches have to say . . . . BECAUSE OF THIS SORT OF UNFOUNDED, DISTORTED PREJUDICE in the name of the very people that might have - with anger, too - put themselves in the way of the rocks after they were thrown, advanced on the rockthrowers, explaining. . . .
if there is a shortage of humans on planet earth sometime, then i'm sure a few lesbians etc can find some way or other to "do what they can", but, it seems that that is one of the serious problems that once faced people, or even "a people" - as it did after a plague, thus the mistaken interpretation of it in the old testament compendium of "if disasters seem about to happen, try this" things. ( A different example is the dismissed but, in its time, crucial "avoid dressing in clothes of more than a single material" injunction. This was, it seems, a community saver at a time when plague was spread in the wool from a flock in the affected part of the world.... other hard to comprehend (in these times - perhaps then too!!!! )
injunctions were all sort of put in the same "sacred" box, even when they were more of almanac variety, even very, very outdated.
Does even accepting these "modern" stonings without speaking out LOUD seem to keep ANY faith with a society whose fundamental spirit was PROGRESS, that commenced writing things down into a "torah" after breaking free of enslavement, then deciding NEVER to persecute or enslave others. . . . in fact - to make strangers guests - that turned away from human sacrifice - even in the face, it seemed, of a command from its God, then, as conditions allowed, replaced much animal sacrifice with the symbolic freeing of doves. . . .
. . . . then was the rock that the passion, + a resistance to Romes degradation was founded on THAT REACHED OUT TO + INCLUDED the Romans themselves, + from pentecost could work with all other spiritual attitudes that had integrity, as opposed to the racketeering "golden calf" charlatans + fraudsters.
. . . . ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem
ABUSE OF POWER is the problem.




more - as any minority in the "west" can tell you, if you are black or coloured, then get hassle - the people that are the "good samaritans" are also the people that come to the aid of people that are In love with people of the same gender. . . . sometimes, they are lesbian or gay themselves. Perhaps some in the church in africa have forgotten to think into the shoes of minorities. . . . perhaps the "moneychangers" had found some ways of distracting us - perhaps some of the "seers" havent escaped the racketeering "masters" - to use a metaphor from Acts - or somesuch - but pauls letters . . . . in fact. . . . his career - should warn people that on top of old "inserts" or fragments of text "out of place", our sentience itself should tell us we cant sacrifice each other, or get played against each other, if we think . . . . with passion - do as y'might want to get done to . . . .





fact is, whether its "evolved" that way, or "Created" that way, in our dna we are the most diverse species that exists. Good thing too - very often its that very diversity thats kept things going. . . . chances are we're going to need MORE of it, instead of less. Fact is, if people are in love with somebody that isnt the opposite sex, that, in itself, is less of a factor in how i see them than the order that they put each sock on . IF, though, somebody abuses power in a relationship, or potential relationship - even if its in a marriage of woman + man thats lasted 60 years . . . . that IS a problem. We see m to have allowed our economic structure,( perhaps with more "help" than we think from the equivalents of the sort of "rings of criminals" the pope might have, in fact, referred to at Auschwitz) to get distorted, thus unsocial actions + attitudes are rewarded, everybody seems cardboard, two dimensional, easy to expend. . . . the short-sighted avarice + sloppy thinking thats "advertised" as "the thing" these days degrades all of us - all of us. SO . . . .




LETS CHANGE IT - TO GETHER
ALL SORTS OF US. . . .



SEE ALSO "DA CODE ITS IN DA "

Well i think it is really great that this article on the main page. But still i don't get it on the one side many people here support totalitatrian regims such as Iran and groups such as Hamas, which are both cearly sexist, homophobe and even kill and hang gay people. I think it is justified to critise the US but supporting this reticulase groups goes far too much into the faschist corner.

anyway...

Old soldiers, too, of all people, dont have reasons for these prejudices, if they think.
But they have reason to see the way veterans groups have often got used by the very people that got kickbacks from the creation of new wars, then new war graves . . . . in the USA as in guatamala, etc. etc. etc. etc. ( "contras" . . . . google "black legions", then - "black hundreds" to see the origins of the scam, or "pseudo gangs" to check. )
In the UK, for instance, the entire outcome of WW2 might have changed without Turing, but in every army, of every country, from the ancient greeks to the hi-tec "gladiators" of the present, the fraction of people that happen to have fallen in love with people of the same sex has remained about the same - it aint a "new" thing - the "new" thing is to pretend its some big deal.
For people trying to distract others from the actual scandals - its the sort of "difference" that can get twisted into a pre - judgement, a "SHOCK"NEWS UUUURGH thing - but if you'd never seen toes, for instance, it might seem quite strange that others had them, hidden, for the shame, in thick leather, so then when the odd one or two wore SANDALS - a sure sign of licentious, debauched attitudes - then the explanation that "it was quite warm" or the seeming - innocent question "but in what way does it affect you?" mightnt have immediate effect. But then its up to ALL of us to pull up each other, in a good way, disagreeing with friends + neighbours, then listening, then getting over the "who was right first" irrelevance, etc. The key thing is changing your own mind.
There are some versions of the gospel that talk about one of the (male) disciples as "the beloved" or "most beloved". All of them, in fact. That doesnt, in itself, mean anything. But if the "4 gospel edit" was done by some in these times, the chances are that all of those references might get "cleaned up." The point IS that that doesnt matter.
Its gotten used to blackmail people in the past, THAT matters - so for the sector of society that depends on getting "handles" on people, to manipulate them, in the same way that it suits those that underrate the worth of ALL people as objects-or-less, to degrade others in cheap ways, get played against each other with a "whatever" shrug, or dismiss peoples sentience, - then to perpetuate - in fact - to increase UNREASONED opposition to difference is to prevent reason getting heard, WHEN it is spoken.
In a perhaps very unintentional way, "camp" itself - as seen in lots of old, much loved "variety" characters ('70s sitcoms) or, at present, as on even very popular current USA tv series can almost seem to have some electric "aversion" charge to some people - but if it was explained to them for what it is - mightnt work that way at all. Its odd to find yourself "odd", but its even more "odd" to find yourself - or your friends - got at for such irrelevant reasons. . . . that a decision to go out your front door in the mourning is often more brave than most people have to get all year - so a bit of "esprit de corp", some in-humour, a bit of "yes we can" goes with the territory - in these times, often includes all of society in the "in-humour", in the same way that most people that do find they happen to look most for that hard to find ms/mr right (even for that somewhat less hard to find ms/mr "right here, right now") amongst people of the same sex , are less "camp" looking than ever - but in these times - thats due to the fact that THAT "battle" is won - but if anybody wanted to push people BACK "underground" then lots of people, friends, parents, kids + grandkids'd put on pink triangles, shiny "slap"n feather boas with the "stripy pyjamas" so we never sit back as ANYBODY gets a number tattooed on a forearm ever again.
The pope mightntve mentioned it - but others remember that in the concentration camps that people fought so far to liberate were people with the loyalty to refuse to deny love when they could have, by the straightforward method of changing clothes.
The first "gay" people that I encountered were two lesbian grandmothers, - a couple - with the VAVAVAVOOOOOM of several regiments, + more than the wisdom of a large "gaggle" of wise men, as it happens. What of it ????
They dont match the caricature. They aint in the "cardboard cutouts" .
But in the news last night was an item about "human traffickers"putting down bids for the slave-prostitution of young women from Russia, Eastern Europe , etc, outside the burger bar at Heathrow airport. Less public support for health, transport .... people are dying younger.... cant afford to join the queues, in 2006. Patriots tricked to throw rocks at . . . . anything to stop them thinking.
BUT EVERYBODY IS THINKING,
+ this time the pride is in REthinking, in seeing the scams, in wising up - in time.
. . . . IN REFUSING TO GET PLAYED AGAINST EACH OTHER.






PPS.... this aint a "competition" about "ideological sound" points, or having the right badges, or about who was right first . . . . its practical.
inverse "unredneck" malarkey is cack too. Condemning religion cos of some of the things its got used as a cover for is the same as rejecting the theories of gravity cos Newton was also doing that Alchemist thing trying to make gold from base metals. . . . (see last words of "some like it hot" xxxx

- getting at people for using "redneck", conservative or "evangelical religious" language is as stupid as "gaybashing" talk - seeing as it reinforces prejudice too!)

These "easy" ploys of distracting everybody from acting together on things they'd all agree with - the "playing us against each other" - uses an "aversion" to certain "styles" through creating "bad associations" with certain words that dont last SERIOUS thought - or meeting a hardworking, humorous, bouncing back effective bunch of "them", - or even one or two of "them" , perhaps working alongside or getting pissed with "them", to actually see those "prejudice" button arguments actually out loud - instead of letting them "fester" .

FOR INSTANCE : Slagging off "Creationists" is far too easy for people whose omniscent "science" hasnt worked out how many DIMENSIONS there are yet. In Pauls words - perhaps a "day" means "a thousand years" - or "a period of time" - in the same way as when you say "on the one hand, on the other hand" doesnt ACTUALLY mean you are in mid-juggle. Surprise, perhaps, that peoples cultural traditions for the "howd we get here" questions tallies so MUCH with science-at-present . . . . i mean, the ORDER is almost exactly the SAME!!!! If you can RULE OUT a n y intelligible design "mysterious ways" nudge or wink, if you can r u l e o u t ANY "extra lucky" things happening in the past Xamounta time, if you can rule OUT the smallest "above the call of tooth + claw duty" stormin' butterfly suspiciously GOOD set of coincidences, then it is YOU that is that is the dangerous fundamentalist ! ! ! !
Or you've forgotten about seeing. SEEING. The eye . An evolution of the sweat gland . As y'do. AS Y'WHAT.... mmmm, perhaps stretching "plausible denial" a bit, but it aint as bad as ZEBRAS. ( I MEAN - STRIPES!?! ) OR unicorns with very tough hides .... i mean, whynot-seriously - i mean whynosserossus rhinocerouses . . . . etc .
Protecting communities doesnt always mean getting played against other communities - or even thinking your SUPERIOR - not REALLY- BUT having a loyalty to past as to future people that exist, have existed, shall exist where we do - with any luck. (yes, most often we do "make each others luck"- somehow or other - creating the "miracle" of the N.H.S, everybodys humdrum "do as y'might want to get done to" - or "mysterious ways" perhaps . To make common cause, most often works better than getting fragmented.
"Internationalists" that have gotten conned by "cosmopolitan" charlatans to condemn those that love the community they are from, or are adopted by, or adopt - are as mistaken as those that think theyvare "born with the shirt" so can sell its honour cheap.
Yes. time
to
think.




(bladerunner reference redo. . . .)

(YES)

"2 REMEMBER THE SCAMS" - google it.
. . . . by the way, expecting people to move in progressive ways when some had seen themselves as either at war, persecuted, having coups organised by corporations with the open assisstance of responsible-seeming regimes (google " iran'53" or trying to find peace despite the "flak" of the "doggerels of infowar" is a lot - but many in the islamic world ARE re-opening old books . . . . if the pope can disinvent "limbo", pardon "judas", put out the encyclical - about LUST (!!!!), the judgement about priests that puts the accent on "celibacy" more than hetero-sexual celibacy (progress of sorts - next, to remember some married disciples, perhaps. . . .)(good thing too - for some), apologise for the priests that abused power + take practical steps to ameliorate things - then have the guts to go to that concentration camp, to say those things that needed saying -
a good way to commence, a more common sense world
then islam can celebrate the people that "push the envelope but keep the spirit" - in lots of ways, it already is - despite the circumstances
(it aint easy when you're mr minderbinders "goldstein" of the month ( catch 22, 1984 refs ! )
. . . . hence, all others could do with seeing that it wasnt islams fault that it got "chosen" for a remodel to get used as a tool against democratisation + the "dangers" to oil licenses, sometimes in the name of "attacking the soft underbelly of the soviet union" - a vietnam for them too " - sometimes for worse reasons,
. . . . in the same way that it wasnt judaisms fault that it got "chosen" when the "p's of Z" were forged back in Paris by a bunch of criminals trying to manipulate "the boss", or the prior choice of that same "rogue"-infested diaxyber department of the okhrana to use "decimation" + pogroms + the manipulated " pseudo gangs " of the time - the black hundreds - to get at anybody that talked about the worst barons extortion rackets, or tried to reform anything. ( they took that "talent" for screw-ups with them to the USA when the failure of the scams meant they had to leave the country, fast - battening onto often the good intentioned of the "citizen kane" types + others in the "commercial sector" (a 1920s versions of the H.Hughes character in the Bond movie - in effect ) to create bogeypersons + provocateurs + "theory" . . . . then the " black legions " of the big car towns, etc.
Yes, some commenced in the late 1800s, but as some outfits moved out of that sphere, then cleaned up the ways they worked, others moved into it.
Snake-oil charmers can make the biggest dummies sometimes, said the target of a certain sting - but seeing as people didnt want to admit that theyd got conned, the scam continued . With disastrous results - then the small ring of criminals that had, with cackhanded "tentacles", caused the mess, got others to do the cover up for them , even, sort of, play along in the extortion racket.

hence, if " remember " is to mean anything,
remember " 2 remember the scams " (google) ( + follow up,other strands, research, . . . . think, etc )

.... + FOLLOW STRANDS!!!! FROM

so if people can accept the fact that a bloke called " loftus" has a programme on fox, etc, etc, the things he's dug out about the way some islamic groups were got to, then distorted even in the same time period, at first, that pseudo gangs were (along the patterns of the " black hundreds", then the "black legions"- yes, that movie with Bogie ).
Some extra bits of the jigsaw - medium press pamphlet about the economic league - the n cohn work on the "protocols", the okhrana bits from the ciarchives, the smedley dartington, french (etc) case at Congress in 33 ( full, recreated version), ftmch corporateNames recall, the odd "postwar-cashback" laws that got passed in 30s germany(the ceserani book - official secrets), paperclipofmarionnettekontrolle-tech
+ the thought that they were ALL "taken for a ride" - but perhaps the blackmail + cover-ups have escalated - to the extent that people are trying to tip the world into WW111 with a few "cheap" booms, of the "paris1893" variety that pushed the old networks into the "commercial sector" + the "old boy s" friendship group that cut across "job" + national loyalties somewhat.

doublecheck, of course



but, 2 + 2 = 4,