"..........and that supports the Government's Conspiracy Theory."

It is silly "editorial" comments totally unjustified by the story that make indymedia at times seem ridiculous.

"The judge presiding over Zacarias Moussaoui's sentencing told trial lawyers that she doesn't believe Moussaoui's claims on the witness stand that he knew advance details of the Sept. 11 plot."

Lot's of us agree with that assessment

"Defense attorneys have argued that Moussaoui lied on the stand either to inflate his role in history or antagonize the jury into making him a martyr through execution."

And THAT is probably the judge's assessment too (it's mine). However that's what we have juries for, to determine matters of fact, to decide to what extgent what each witness said was truth, what not. If you have ever sat on a jury you know that it is usually not a matter of determining who is telling the truth and who not sicne the testimony of most witnesses is a mix.

I've not been following this case that closely, but I would have thought now would be a good time for someone who is well-versed in it to remind us all about the dubious circumstances surrounding what is after all the only 9/11 prosecution.

People like Jordan aren't interested in facts in the slightest. They have found their God, their Truth (9/11 Turth) and they are going to keep knocking on everyone's door, evangelising uninvited like the Johos from Hell until it slowly seeps into the bulk of the zealots that the 9/11 Truth case is paper thin.

It's irritating on two levels:

1. As you rightly observe, it makes this place look like a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing twats if it goes unchallenged.

1b. The total disregard for fact checking and evidence compunds this.

2. And probably the more damaging point: it detracts from real issues. The nutty militia culture of xenophobia, paranoia and rumour is becoming a smokescreen to the hard and fast issues.

Facts like, there is a case for an independent inquiry into the legitimacy of the case for war and ultimately an impeachment of Blair. I suspect an unfettered inquiry would have to quickly step aside for the police to build a criminal case against at least Blair and Campbell and most likely delivering them to the Hague- thus also bringing pressue on the US to follow suit.

We know that we were lied to because people in the government, the intelligence community and the mainstream media leaked and publicied documents (whose authenticity are not in doubt.)

Instead of being rallied to pursue this line of inquiry, we have these ZOG loons telling us that the very same intelligence services that spilled the beans are carrying out false flags against us. Whilst rather amusingly bandying around the documents they leaked as part of their nutty cult.

The stupidity of 9/11 Truth defies my vocabulary. At first I gave them the benefit of the doubt assuming that spammers we get here are an extreme. But having examined many sites, I can comfortably describe them as being 99% total fuckwits who are either just way out their depth or completely mental or just retarded.

Their fuckwittage is actually detrimental to any rational calls for independent scrutiny of Attacks on New York etc. Their baying anti-semitism and loony theories are too easy wrte off and ignore.

If that many people got behind calls for investigation of the REAL conspiracies, wouldn't it be wonderful?

P.S. Watch out Michael is a Judean name you may get branded a Jew... sorry a Mossad plant!

Your name is well chosen, cannot tell whether your name is a nod towards your real role as disinformationalist or a light hearted take on your percieved role (and one you like to project rather to much) of debunker.

With comments that address those with whom you disagree here as "retards" (unpleasent and medievil in its outlook), my $$$ are on you as disinformationalist.

You claim that you seek - like many here - justice. Justice that encompasses the removal and prosecution of british leaders for their lies over the illegal invasion of iraq.

Neat.

You almost seem to fit in.

Almost.

The remaining questions about the lead up to war perhaps interest you less, centred as they are around the coincidences of the PNAC dominted, israel firsters, Zionist occupation Governament of [ZOG] bush II.

No matter that a handfull of hardcore zionist jewish/israeli americans (so called dual loyalty movers and shakers. Although admittedly an Arabic outlook, I thought no man could serve 2 masters) were at key postions in the US admin at crucial times in the build up and execution of the most shocking circumvention of multi-trillion $$$ security systems.

No matter that they had openly formulated a policy document that relied on this amazing string of coincidences (or carefully executed outcomes) in order to persue it to its prewritten conclusions (domination of energy resources, a reinvigoration of defence contractors - like the ones they all had financial interests in - and a new longer lasting worldwide enemy that would ensure manifest destiny abroad and sweeping restrictions of dissent at home, oh and coincidentaly the full wish list of a rapatious israeli racist war machine).

No matter that government docs from both sides of the pond spelt out for the idiots involved, a series of policy 'adjustments' that would produce the desired outcome of war against a beaten down, municipally downsized, starved population.

None of this matters and has nothing to do with 911 - you wish.

The so called 20th hijacker - convieniently in jail at the time of the attack and thus spared the ordeal of facing all the direct evidence of that day - is a side show.

The fact that some say he is mentally ill, that his defence could not agree between themselves (the govenmant appointed ones said he was fine and did not want to testify, the non government appointed ones said he wasn't and did want to testify - what a mess!) and that during his time in court he was shackeled behaind glass, surrounded by heavily armed guards in a closed military cordened off area and yet STILL required that he be fitted with a powerful electroshock belt that would administer a jarring bolt of juice at the whim and behest of his captors (WHAT ... ??? ... YES, you couldn't make it up!)

Even if we reduce the issues of 911 and iraq to just a handfull, even if we mention not unicol, kissenger associates, halliburton, Kellog Brown & Root, etc ... even if we disregard the ethno/political/religious bias of the majority of those in a postion to influence events, even if we ignore the physical evidence and physical realities of materials and technologies, even if we accept the numerous coincidental failings of organisations and systems designed to protect against similar threats, even if we forget operation northwoods and the CIAs role in arming and training bin laden ...

... even then we are faced with an uncompremising set of notions and fact:

... we are at war and it has cost at least 100 000 innocent lives. If the pattern of the last century is followed, the vast majority of these deaths have been women and children.

... our leaders lied and have involvment with individuals, organizations and companies who will specifically profit (finacially, politically) from this war.

... questions remain.

QUESTIONS REMAIN UNANSWERED.

There is only so much wool you can employ to cover all our eyes, and you don't have enough.

Its easy though - much easier - to lie and decieve. It takes hardly any effort to destroy.

People usually have a weak spot, a guilty secret, a point that can be irritated to distract from all else and many other things beside that can be usfully employed to reduce them to defending rather than questioning.

The pattern of [your] postings and others of your ilke, follow this predictable path ... the shoot the messenger pathway.

Its naked as a new born, that you do not wish to exchange and correct information, that you do not wish to forge justice out of understanding, cooperation and mutual respect, that you have any desire to meaningfully engage with ideas that you do not yet understand.

You have an agenda. Woe betide any that cross it. You have all the answers and there is nothing to see here.

Nothing to see here?!?

Hmmm?

Who else are famous for that outlook?

... another xenophobic "Truthseeker" appeared.

Jack I don't have to try to fit in, I have been on IMC UK virtually from the start, with a few interruptions when I was living in remote areas with no connex.

My contribution to IMC UK hasn't solely been focussed on some stupid stupid ZOG hocuspocus and nutty pseudoscience hobbies.

I don't have anywhere near all the answers. That takes primary data and the relevent expert skills to build hypotheses that make sense. I have questions and the intelligence to know I can't answer a lot of them... which is why I never advance a theory on 9/11 in anything but a hypothetical way.

It's a sure-fire sign of idiocy or madness when someone believes the have all the answers.

I do however have enough critical faculties and training to be able to smell total crap guising itself as research, evidence or theory. Unlike your good self, it would seem. Whether it be 9/11 Truth crap or Alistair Campbell/Karl Rove/Rupert Murdoch crap. I've had friends fitted up by the kind of people you fantasise about. I've interviewd spooks. I have friends in the unlikeliest of places. I don't have to rely on the WWW for my world view.

I have been active in seeking prosecution of coalition war criminals, which is more than be said for you and the Lone (de)Ranger.

Once again all you can offer us is rumour and no hard evidence.

I'd dearly love someone to be able prove me very wrong and have the whole lot of those dehumanised shits banged up. But I doubt they will. Because, I can see than 9/11 Truth is a fallacy. It sarts off with the same loathing as most of us have for Bush/Blair plc and fits them up.

It's a totally negative and destructive movement. It ignores the very real (ongoing) crimes in preference for this clinically depressive circle of guaranteed failure/disempowerment.

9/11 Turth avoids the most basic principals of making any case whether it be scientific, academic or legal. It is unable to present credible evidence.

With no evidence you have nothing but supposition. And the supposition it does have is frankly science fiction meets the nuttiest of facist militia crap.

Why are you guys here? Do you think you can capitalise on the general left/anarchist antipathy towards the criminals in Israel and recruit more moonies for your cult?

Yeah I have an agenda: I fucking hate racism of any description- be it overt or implied. I hate snakeoil peddlers. I hate travelling preachers. I hate liars and deceivers. I hate authoritarians. I hate history revisionists. I hate fit ups, irrespective of who the person on the receiving end is.

I hate people coming here making anarchists look like idiots... because when we do it for ourselves, as we frequently do (like all humans) we do it with panache!

Take your unfounded garbage where it belongs: stormfront or the such.

I think I'll put more weight behind the opinions of Judge who sat through this case, and heard the "evidence", over a bunch of pro-Bush Plants, thanks all the same.

In ignoring the utter emptiness of the Conspiracy Theory regarding 911, by the criminal LIARS who've now used it to excuse the indefensible - a long-planned agenda of military aggression and Neo-Fascism (www.newamericancentury.org) - you Plants expose your motives, and no "Mike" Harper, nobody can make you look more foolish than you are.

Only a real investigation can determine what happened that day, and who was truly responsible.

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/05/339534.html?c=on#c147266

That's just Disinformation.

Only a real investigation can determine what happened that day, and who was truly responsible.

Why don't you ask Bush/PNAC for their missing evidence?

So, when the CPS ask the police for evidence that's disinfo. When a judge asks the CPS for evidence that disinfo. When a journal editor asks for evidence that's disinfo. When a professor asks a doctoral student for evidence that's disinfo.

When I ask you for evidence you start telling me it's someone else I should be asking, and that makes ME the disinformationist.

It's plain to see to anyone bored enough to read this shit, that you have just admitted again to having no evidence... and thus no case.

Stop wasting our time... both of you.

"So, when the ..."

No, when you Demand Impossible Proofs, instead of addressing the subject, it is Disinformation.

"When I ask you for evidence you start telling me it's someone else I should be asking, and that makes ME the disinformationist."

Yes. I have no authority of the US Government. The holes in the Official Conspiracy Theory, the missing evidence, and the inconsistencies I've pointed out, are more than enough to warrant an investigation.

The Bush/PNAC Regime has not provided any compelling evidence to support their Conspiracy Theory. That you ignore this, and don't respond to anything, but rather, rely solely on one-way communication, proves you to be a Disinformationalist.

Only a real investigation would determine what really took place that day, and who was responsible. The fact that the criminal LIARS espousing their Theory, in order to "justify" a pre-planned program of Neo-Fascism and military aggression, have blocked such an investigation, should cause you concern.

If you have anything to add, which would convince us otherwise, please feel free to post it ...

Admits again that he has no evidence.

Keep it up Jordan, you'll dig your way all the way to Australia at this rate.

Actually, the subject here is that the Bush/PNAC Regime has no evidence.

That's why they're desperate for this "confession" to put the matter to rest.

Unfortunately, not even the judge in the case believes it.

Another admission from Jordan he has no evidence to back up his claims.

Jordan,

Put up or shut up.

If this were a court of law, he'd be in the holding cells for contemp by now.

Actually, the subject here is that the Bush/PNAC Regime has no evidence.

That's why they're desperate for this "confession" to put the matter to rest.

Unfortunately, not even the judge in the case believes it.

Still no evidence

Hey Spooky

Here you are again demanding evidence.
I hope your persuing the US Government with the same vigour
Where is the evidence to support their claims?
Half baked Pancakes?
Destruction of evidence.
Deliberate obstruction of investigators.
Deliberate misinformation etc etc etc......

You are a fool boy!
If you want evidence go to the people who have it the US GOVERNMENT.

2%Human 60% Daffodil and a scary 98% Chimp

LNP

twopercenthuman