Sorry. You've lost me. This article is written as if it is obvious why it would be very very beneficial for ordinary people in the UK to have no national border controls.

I think you'll find it would be absolutely catastrophic. It would reduce us all to the levels of poverty and despair suffered by the world's most deprived people. Why would that be good? If we want to help them (and of course we should) there are sensible things that can be done without destroying our own society.

No Borders as a slogan is the aim, to destroy and abolish all borders. Borders serve only those who believe and support a state as the only way society is organised (read commanded). We are against the state and do not see it as natural, neccesary or beneficial to living in peace. Quite the opposite in fact, the state and capitalism serve ONLY the interests of those who benefit most from them i.e. the capitalists and those who seek or have power. Considering that this is such a small small minority, the idea of a stateless, non-capitalist world therefore becomes the ideas of everyone who seeks to live in peace with out conflict, exploitation, wars, poverty, pollution, discrimination, racism, sexual and gender oppression.

For those of you that argue that immigration (border) controls are neccesary to a good life it means that you live in a very different reality (even a different planet!) to this one and fail to realise the connection between state, capitalism and the misery it produces.

We are against borders, against seperation and for self-organisation, not mediation, not states, not hierarchy, not cops, soldiers, or even ranting loons like Lord Snooty.

NO BORDERS NO NATIONS NO PATROITISM!

Dear Lord snooty and all. I wonder when he is going away to buy his nice luxury flat in Spain of perhaps on the African continent to buy some diamonds.

I geuss when Mr snooty referes to "them" he means Asylum seakers or refugees. No Borderrs is indeed an aim. To bring us all away from aligning our selves with some sort of made up patriotism. Would he if he was in a situation were the only way to survive was to look for a nother place to live look for somewhere else to live. Perhaps that's not a situation that has presented it self to such a Lord.

Can somebody pleae explain why just becasue I happend to be born in Britian that I can choose to go were ever I like, buy property were ever I like but not let others to do so If I so choose.

It's pretty obvious stuff

Toby

I come from a similar political stance as =0> but I'm afraid parts of your comment come over as "ranting loon" (ideological brand), as you label Snooty, rather than explaining complex issues.

You're right in the long-run, and as an aim, but if you removed borders and state from this country tomorrow, there would be much abject poverty and chaos & probably many people coming to live here. Not that societal breakdown is necessarily a bad thing, but it's certainly a messy and fatal (for some) thing. And yes, of course, us/our state are largely responsible for the poverty and disasters which afflict much of the world, whether it's through former colonialism, current economic colonialism, or climate chaos as a result of our lifestyles.

If I could destroy all borders and immigration controls, I will also destroy capitalism and the misery it causes. In other words, we can only achieve the aim of no borders if we tackle the WHOLE system through a popular social movement and create the world we want. The same goes for taking out one part of the "system" and leaving the rest in place. I do not think that the capitalist world could survive with no states or borders, just as that cannot survive without private property and wage slavery.

I am sorry to hear that some refugees and migrants are not well and taking their own lives. It must be a very traumatic experience to flee from a situation were your live is in danger and then get pushed around like you’re a criminal. One of the problems that I find with the talks about migration is that their is too much focus on the refugees and migrants as some sort of criminals. People go to other countries for all sorts of reason, holiday’s or work, to get married ect. Their seems to be persistently a denial of why people are getting into such situations were they choose to seek asylum in a foreign land. What that does is makes people see migrants as criminals instead of people who could do with a bit of care. People who criticism war lords or repressive regimes for example are most likely quite brave and thoughtful people.

So to change add a bit. What about the subject of what things are done to reduce such necessity for people to go thought such traumatic experiences as seeking asylum For instance challenging the support given to places like Burma by large corporations were by in that case a repressive military regimes gains financial support from them doing business their and creates huge amounts of ethnic conflicts.

Indeed their my be people who have less than benign motives e.g. Ne Win in Burma. But if their are no harmful intentions from people then surely they should be aloud to go and live were ever they like.

Toby

Why should be obvious that borders controls are unecessary and harmful ( noborders position)? Why should be obvous that borders controls are necessary and our society could not survive without (pro-borders position)? I think nothing is obvious and the function of borders should be properly analysed before reaching conclusions - which is something most if not all of the nationalist / pro-borders / anti-migrants lobby fails to do. They seem to think border contros have always existed - which is far from the truth, they are a very recent invention. That the abolition of border controls would cause our society to break up - how and why? That the abolition of borders would cause untold suffering an misery to the rightful owners of the UK, the British - any proof of that? Did millions of eastern europeans came here after joining the EU? No they did not. Why untold suffering and misery should be tolerated when it happens elsewhere and to others? Why is the UK fuelling wars which produce refugees in order to keep its arms industry? Why is the UK supporting dictatorships, than locking up the opponents when they come here as refugees? Why are they deporting them back where they can be killed and tortured? Think.

no borders - a hypothetical situation as no UK Govt would remove them, but lets just have fun. The UK has free healthcare, free housing maybe, welfare if you can play the system, plentiful water, at least soil to grow food. No Borders in Europe would mean what? 5 million, 50 million [who knows how many millions] Africans moving north to take advantage of whats on offer - fools if they didnt - same for many in the Levant, India & China - no welfare state there!

'No Borders' is different from 'No Borders for my friends'

The other day whilst having a drink after work (In work in a pub) I got into a heated argument about immigration. One guy (he's a good bloke really, just reads the wrong paper) started moaning about illegal immigrants and I thought, 'here we go again' and I said my stuff about the media's agenda and so fourth, about how it all boils down to economics etc etc. But then another guy I work with, who I have to say is pretty intelligent and not right-wing in thinking was telling me about immigrants he knew when living in London. Jamaican yardies and eastern european pimps, who were his problem in particular, the yardies set up crack dens and the eastern europeans brothels and he said he knew this as fact, not some sensationalised newspaper story.
I was saying you can't tar everyone with the same brush etc and he accepted this, however he said I was naive.
Anyway, the point is the 'left' or groups like noborders do have to accept that there ARE *some* people coming here who don't make positive contributions to society, who aren't victims of oppressive regimes or extreme poverty but quite the opposite. They are exploiters and bullies and to be honest we don't want THOSE people here, just like we don't want capitalism and the state. Don't get me wrong I support groups like noborders and the whole idea, but they have to push their ideas behind WHY they don't want borders, or the man in the street is just going to think you're a bunch of naive idiots... which is similar to the same misconceptions about the word 'anarchy' or 'anarchist'. So what do we do about the minority who are exploiters and drug dealers? They exist, we can't just keep saying 'oh it's capitalism's fault' cos it just won't wash. What is a practical solution?

Sorry this post is a bit long and confusing, I just think these are issues which need to be addressed.

P.S Please read my post and take it in, don't resort to ranting that I'm some kind of impressionable fool who believes everything he's told.