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The Real Pro-War Crowd

Cat R Pillar | 14.11.2005 13:15 | World

"They want the US to deal out death and destruction, in the best case using illegal or hypocritical means, in order that their all-important propaganda agenda is served. And, while hoping in their hearts for "more chaos, more shocks, more disorder", they're publicly crying out for "peace, peace"."

 http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_ablution/2005/11/the_real_prowar.html

The Real Pro-War Crowd: Who They Are and What They Want (Chaos, Anarchy and Death)

An Ablution contributor points us to a comment on a British Asian blog to which I'm not linking, which reads in part as follows (grammatical errors in original):

"Yes I’ve read Scott Burgess’ apologetic behaviour for the American govt. He doesn’t deny its a chemical weapon (though he tried initially until the American military admitted it)."

My initial response to this was puzzlement. How could any sane person possibly construe what I've written on the subject in this fashion, when I've made such an effort to point out - by multiple links to both weapons experts and the BBC - my belief, and the fact, that white phosphorus is not a chemical weapon?

My next reaction was that perhaps this person was simply an idiot. Or possibly a cynical liar.

While neither of these (not mutually exclusive) possibilities can be entirely ruled out on the basis of available evidence, I don't think they're fully explanatory. I think that full understanding of such a bizarre statement - which is logically similar to a claim that Simon Wiesenthal is a holocaust denier (i.e., not merely false, but completely dissociated from reality) - lies in a psychological mechanism which, when explored fully, leads to some very disturbing conclusions about the mentality of many in the appeasement community.

My guess is that this person wants so badly for the "chemical weapons" claims to be true, and for me and the US government to have admitted it, that he actually believes the patent nonsense reproduced above. Or, to put it another way, he fervently (though perhaps secretly) hopes that the US did dissolve and caramelise the burnt-to-the-bone skin of women and children with their banned "chemical weapons", because that would make America look bad - and, to those of a certain all-too-prevalent mentality, America looking bad is the overriding concern, and one that's worth many, many civilian lives.

If it were just the demonstrably delusional fantasies of one individual at issue, I wouldn't even bother addressing the comment, and would simply write it off, with a combination of amusement and revulsion, as the product of a comically warped mind. The problem is that the expressed mindset is so pervasive among those ostensibly well-meaning, caring liberals who opposed the war (and, presumably, also opposed the resultant removal of Saddam from power and subsequent Iraqi elections).

As one of them (Salon's executive editor, Gary Kamiya), famously put it in a moment of commendable honesty:

"I have a confession: I have at times, as the war has unfolded, secretly wished for things to go wrong. Wished for the Iraqis to be more nationalistic, to resist longer. Wished for the Arab world to rise up in rage. Wished for all the things we feared would happen."

Mr Kamiya takes pains to show that these feelings are not out of the ordinary in his circles:

"I'm not alone: A number of serious, intelligent, morally sensitive people who oppose the war have told me they have had identical feelings."

"Morally sensitive" indeed!

Among those who have similar feelings is our very own Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, who expresses them as follows:

"Well, you know, it's really difficult; I was thinking this morning - I mean the kind of moral trauma. I've been against the war and part of you begins to... you know, it's horrible how your mind works. You think 'Good!', you wake up thinking 'Good, there's all this mess'. And then you have to question your own self, saying what kind of a human being are you, that you want this mess?"

In another piece, she explains the "root causes" of these feelings (emphasis added):

"I am ashamed to admit that there have been times when I wanted more chaos, more shocks, more disorder to teach our side a lesson. On Monday I found myself again hoping that this handover proves a failure because it has been orchestrated by the Americans."

Now when someone wishes for the war to "go wrong", they're not wishing for the establishment of a stable, peaceful democratic society. Most certainly not - after all, peace and stability in Iraq is what the evil neo-cons want, and must therefore be resisted, whether by bombs or by words. It is of an importance above all else that anything "orchestrated by the Americans" leads to failure, which is why peace is the last thing that the so-called 'anti-war' crowd wants - driven as they are by a primary agenda that's served by the instability, violence and anarchy that Ms. Alibhai-Brown views as "good".

For this ilk, the outcome that all sane people (and not just the neo-cons) desire would be a bad thing; because - and here is the essence of the mindset - like the capture of Saddam and the Iraqi elections, any positive developments put George Bush, and the United States in general, in a good light. Absolutely nothing can be worse than this, which is why people like Mr. Kamiya and Ms. Alibhai-Brown - and the millions worldwide who so passionately wish that the chemical weapons claims were true - have been hoping for sustained unrest, pain and death from the very beginning.

To hell with the Iraqis - if their misery makes America look bad, bring on more misery!

Given that to put America in the worst possible light is so much more important than the welfare of those whom they claim to defend, it is naturally preferable if the death and misery are at the hands of the Americans rather than the 'resistance'.

While it is clearly "good" if several suicide bombs can be reported on a given day - since "more chaos, more shocks, more disorder" is the hoped-for state of affairs - such attacks don't redound quite badly enough on the Americans, who, after all, are not the ones carrying them out. While this won't necessarily stop the US getting the blame, it's slightly more tricky, rhetorically speaking. So it's better if the innocents are killed by Americans.

Of course, for the ultimate in delicious moral outrage, and the most effective demonisation of the evil Americans, it's best of all when the desired misery and mayhem is the result of 'illegal' actions by the US military - like the (supposed) use of banned weapons - especially when one can then oh-so-cleverly make an ironic reference to "WMD being found in Iraq", as so many clueless bloggers have.

All of this is why so many of those who claim to be anti-war are made so palpably happy by 'revelations' like the false "chemical weapons" allegations. It's also why the likes of the individual I quoted at the beginning are so willing to divorce themselves from reality, finding 'admissions' where none exist, so badly do they wish to believe that the charges are true - so badly do they wish that innocents were brutally and illegally targeted.

The inescapable, sad conclusion is that they'd be even happier if presented with more American 'atrocities' in tomorrow's paper; because, despite their pious expressions of shock and sadness, these people actively hope that civilians (preferably women and babies) will be killed (preferably by US troops, preferably illegally). For this creates the press that enables them to most easily pursue their anti-American crusade - that being of ultimate importance, and certainly more important than any number of Iraqi victims for whom they so hypocritically claim to weep.

In the end, of course, such people are not 'anti-war' at all, but pro-war. They want the US to deal out death and destruction, in the best case using illegal or hypocritical means, in order that their all-important propaganda agenda is served. And, while hoping in their hearts for "more chaos, more shocks, more disorder", they're publicly crying out for "peace, peace".

It's difficult to imagine a more despicable point of view.

Cat R Pillar

Comments

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cruise missile leftist

14.11.2005 14:00

A self-publicising self-important cruise missile leftist defends the use of WP against civilians ?

And he refers to the so-called anti-war crowd as pro-war ? Classic.

Jeez, if he isn't working for the CIA then he is obviously selling himself short.
Lets see how much he blogged about Falluja on November 8th of last year ? As I thought, zip, just some dross about Leo Sayer.

Yeah, this guys opinion really matters...

Danny


Cat R Idiot

14.11.2005 14:33

When I hear people like this I want to be sick. Cluster bombs are illegal if used against civilian populations. DU rounds count as WMD. Morons like "Cat R pillar" should be kidnapped by the CIA and flown to Iraq and forced to witness the brutal everyday degradation of civilians with their own eyes.

Steve


Can't afford the air-fare to iraq

14.11.2005 16:36

I know where the blood-thirsty New Yorker lives in London. How about we just let of some white phosphorus inside his house ? Since its no big deal to him then I'm sure he won't mind.

 http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts103.html

Danny


Take Your Weblogs Elsewhere

14.11.2005 21:58

Blogs bore me shitless. "News stories" about blogs are worse. You are all whining egotists who don't report news, you only commment on it. Keep it on Livejournal, egomaniacs. This story told me NOTHING.

Please


Blair's monsters will become ever more visible and vocal

14.11.2005 22:01

Do I win a prize if I can guess the religion of Cat R Pillar? Anyway, shouldn't he be off writing his Op-Ed opinions in The Guardian?

More generally, as Hitler rose to power, more and more human monsters were squeezed out of the general morass of human depravity into the daylight of normal human existence. They had caught the growing scent of evil that now clung to society like the smell of decay on a rotting corpse. They instinctively understood that their time was coming, and soon they would be able to rule as small petty gods, free to indulge in whatever perversion their sick minds could envisage in the service of their new master.

Today, the self-same thing is happening all over again, as Blair's potential to far surpass Hitler becomes apparent to all those with an incentive to notice. "Cat R Pillar" is merely writing its CV for a future time when it can earn this twisted monster a precious place in the legion of high-ranking psychopaths that will serve Blair. Today, there is little for them to do than troll, or offer their bodies as literal walls of flesh to block their master from unwanted press attention (see the last election). However, their ambition runs lightyears ahead of their current "footsoldier" duties. In their heads, such human scum are already "lords of atrocity", wielding acts of despite far beyond those of the henchmen of Khan or Hitler or Stalin. That they have passed on the opportunity to join the butchers in Iraq or Afghanistan, torturing, raping, and murdering with total legal immunity, has less to do with their grand ambitions, and much to do with their total cowardice. THEIR victims must have zero possibility to fight back.

Be aware that the rhetoric of this most base of all human life will soon be the common currency of the BBC, The Guardian, Channel 4 news, and all your imagined Mass Media friends, for very soon the mask will need to be removed, exactly as happened in the time-line of Nazi Germany.

You may take some small comfort that after the time of the Nazis ended, thousands of "Cat R Pillars" were tried and hung all across Europe. I take none, since no amount of justice could make up for the atrocities that mankind suffered then, and that mankind will suffer in our immediate future at their hands.

twilight


original post is true

15.11.2005 01:01

Its clear that the left/far left wants everything to go wrong. They predict a million and one disasters that will result from the alleged neo-con project. Now, if none of these disasters occurred, a stable, democratic Iraq would be created. The left, if it had principles, would support that, and hope for such an Iraq. But that's the neo-con agenda, and it has to be proven wrong and disrupted. Therefore terrorists that blow up innocent Iraqis are praised as freedom fighters, ignoring all the facts, and "resistance", mistakes, problems, etc, are all hoped for, so they can sit back with the sanctimonious, smug opinions in The Independent and say they were right. WHy don't you admit it? When I thought about it, that's how I felt when I was far-left. I didn't truly care about Iraqis etc. What mattered was opposing US and UK, regardless of whether the result would truly be better for Iraqis. Do any of you HONESTLY believe that a Ba-athist-Al-Qaeda victory in Iraq will be better for Iraqis than the victory of what you see as US-UK imperialism, which will establish democracy? Who has democracy, freedom, things that once mattered to leftists, Argentina, Peru, Bolivia, etc, or Cuba?

jo


The majority of the population think the Iraq war was right!

15.11.2005 09:55

In a poll done six months after the Iraq war 65 per cent of the British public thought that the war to overthrow Saddam Hussein had been right. The anti-war movement had no answer as to how to liberate the people of Iraq without war, or how to counter the lingering threat to world peace and stability posed by Saddam Hussein! The world is a much better and safer place now that Saddam Hussein is in jail and not in power. And the people of Iraq are far better off now than they ever were under Saddam.

Concerned


Exporting democracy ?

15.11.2005 11:47

92% of the British public were against the war without a second UN resolution.

82% of Iraqis want US uk forces to leave tommorow.
Not even one out of a hundred Iraqis think the "Allied(sic) military involvement is helping to improve security in their country."

92% of the British public were against the war without a second UN resolution.

Are these sources too left-wing for you ?

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/politics/2752163.stm
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/23/wirq23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/23/ixworld.html

Danny


The Whole World Is A Left-Wing Conspiracy!

15.11.2005 13:16

Of course the BBC and the Telegraph are left-wing conspiracies! Everyone knows the BBC is run by Communists and the Telegraph by Anarchists!

Not only that but _every_ so-called newspaper and TV channel is Commie-run! Just look at how they report protests against our brave leaders Blair and Bush! Why would they report protests in such a mealy-mouthed way, failing to denounce all those present as traitors unless they were paid-up Communist stooges!

Of course the reality is that no such protests exist! All people all over the world are 100% behind our leaders and the War On Terror, all alleged dissneters are imaginary inventions of the Commie media on direct instructions from Al-Quaeda!

Anyone who claims otherwise is mad or evil and should be locked up for at least 90 days!

A Nonny Mouse


Boycott US Caterpillar Inc.

15.11.2005 16:44

Who is this tosser? Caterpillar bulldozers are used to crush innocent people and demolish civilians' houses in Israel - am I getting close?
To say that if we oppose illegal invasions of sovereign unarmed (we now know) countries we are secretly enjoying the carnage - oh forget it - don't bother to dignify the silly bugger with a comment.

The Leveller


I'm OK now - I have logged of the porn site

16.11.2005 13:49

Actually I change my mind again. Every time I look at Porno on the internet and masturbate I become a complete right wing goon. Now I have finished my sordid activity I am thinking straight and realise I was talking absolute shit (I often do )


Concerned


This is why the anti-war brigade are wrong!

17.11.2005 14:45

Quote : "I become a complete right wing goon."

The anti-war crowd are the right wing goons! Saddam Hussein murdered 300,000 of his own people, tortured and forced to flee as refugees millions more, started two aggresive wars against Iran and Kuwait, the Iranian war costing a million lives, drained the land of the Marsh Arabs forcing them into destitution and gassed 5,000 Kurds at Halabja in 1988. And yet the anti-war brigade said he must be allowed to stay in power rather than there be war.

Understand this, no one wanted war! No one at all! But sometimes war is neccessary when we are faced with evil, insane, cruel, dictators like Saddam Hussein!!!!

Concerned


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I know I am a sick fool but

17.11.2005 22:41

Mummy they are being horrible again. All I did was talk about the 100,000’s of people Saddam murdered but did not say anything about the people who invaded Iraq supported him doing this. I don’t know why they are horrible to me mummy I only masturbate while I think of the 1 ½ million Iraq’s that my hero’s killed through sanctions. Mummy I mention that Saddam attacked Iran killing a million people but I don’t mention that I support attacking Iran myself while you suck my knob because I am a sad deluded lonely masturbating child like right wing goon when I get excited about killing people with B52s

Concerned


Mkayy kids lesson number 1

18.11.2005 00:32

Even if 100% of British people thought the war was right who the fuck are they to tell the I raqis what to do? Maybe the 7/7 bombers did what they did coz they thought it was what the Iraqis wanted. Maybe in a poll in Iraq 70% said that britain should be attacked. By concerneds ;ogic the attack is justified.

Mkayy son try to get this through your thick skull. No matter how bad a regime, or how tortureous, no country can attack another unless its security is threatened. Thats why the british and american fuckwits used wmds as an excuse and not the regime itself.

2nd the majority of Iraqis want the occupying forces out. But of course that wont happen coz Iraq is a democracy and its not the Iraqis that make decissions it the coalition forces.

3rd Iraqis are now 9 times more likely to suffer a violent death than during Saddams regime.

Do the maths dipshit and tell me what was less worse for them.

Concerned for PM


lying liars

18.11.2005 11:00

"... and gassed 5,000 Kurds at Halabja in 1988. And yet the anti-war brigade said he must be allowed to stay in power rather than there be war."


Actually the 'anti-war' brigade were calling for his removal before Halabja - while you lot were still supplying him with the gas to kill his own population. I suggest you read some history of actual events rather than what you dreamed happened because you are in a state of denial and very rapidly losing all right to be taken seriously.

Danny


The anti-war movement did not exist in 1988!

18.11.2005 11:46

Quote : "Actually the 'anti-war' brigade were calling for his removal before Halabja - "

The anti-war movement didn't exist before the first Gulf War in 1991! Back then the anti-war movement were demanding that Iraq should not be forced out of Kuwait after it had invaded and terrorised that country.

Also whoever was calling for Saddam Husseins' removal before Halabja, how would they have got that removal implicated without war????

Concerned


Brigadoon

18.11.2005 12:33



Can you point me to a brigadeer ? The anti-war brigade didn't exist then nor does it now, so I'll stop using your false terminology to be more accurate. Most of the same people in the UK who opposed Saddam opposed the war and now oppose the occupation. They managed to reach their moral positions on these issues by application of a few common humane principles whatever their politics were.

You supported this illegal and immoral war why ? Because of Halabja ? Did you protest Halabja at the time ? Or like our leaders did you pretend it didn't happen until you needed an excuse to cover up your own complicity ? Well, Saddam was an evil, murderous tyrant alright. He was YOUR man in the middle-east, the man you happily built up to fight nasty Iran. He killed fewer of his own citizens with weapons of mass destruction that the USuk have. He killed fewer of his own citizens than the UN sanctions did. And he destroyed Halabja with gas so you cheer when the US destroy Falluja with WP and DU ? You suck you twat.

USUK=You suck. TWAT = the war against terror.

Danny


50 ways to kill your leader

18.11.2005 12:53

How about bribe a general to bomb him like you did in Chile ?
How about sending in the paras like you did in Grenada ?
How about any of the thousand ways that the US has removed troublesome foriegners in the past when it's armies were busy elsewhere ?

I know, how about paying an assasin to kill him - like you did in Iraq in the first place when Saddam first earned his stripes ?



50 ways to kill your leader

The problem is all inside your head
She said to me
The answer is easy if you
Take it logically
I’d like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To kill your leader

She said it’s really not my habit
To intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won’t be lost or misconstrued
But I’ll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways
To kill your leader
Fifty ways to kill your leader

CHORUS:
You slip a knife in his back, Jack
Toss a grenade, Jade
You don’t need to be destroy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Blow up his bus, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
Just poison his tea, Lee
And get yourself free

She said it grieves me so
To see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do
To make you smile again
I said I appreciate that
And would you please explain
About the fifty ways

She said why don’t we both
Just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning
You’ll begin to fight the fight
And then she kicked me
And I realized she probably was far-right
Still, there must be fifty ways
To kill your leader
Fifty ways to kill our leader

Danny


50 ways to kill your leader #2

18.11.2005 13:34

Can you point me to a brigadeer ? The anti-war brigade didn't exist then nor does it now, so I'll stop using your false terminology to be more accurate. Most of the same people in the UK who opposed Saddam opposed the war and now oppose the occupation. They managed to reach their moral positions on these issues by application of a few common humane principles whatever their politics were.

You supported this illegal and immoral war why ? Because of Halabja ? Did you protest Halabja at the time ? Or like our leaders did you pretend it didn't happen until you needed an excuse to cover up your own complicity ? Well, Saddam was an evil, murderous tyrant alright. He was YOUR man in the middle-east, the man you happily built up to fight nasty Iran. He killed fewer of his own citizens with weapons of mass destruction that the USuk have. He killed fewer of his own citizens than the UN sanctions did. And he destroyed Halabja with gas so you cheer when the US destroy Falluja with WP and DU ?

"Also whoever was calling for Saddam Husseins' removal before Halabja, how would they have got that removal implicated without war????"

How about bribe a general to bomb him like you did in Chile ?
How about sending in the paras like you did in Grenada ?
How about any of the thousand ways that the US has removed troublesome foriegners in the past when it's armies were busy elsewhere ?
How about an assassin like you did in Iraq when you brought Saddam to power ?

How about leaving it to the Iraqis rather than killing them for your failures ?




50 ways to kill your leader

The problem is all inside your head
She said to me
The answer is easy if you
Take it logically
I’d like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To kill your leader

She said it’s really not my habit
To intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won’t be lost or misconstrued
But I’ll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways
To kill your leader
Fifty ways to kill your leader

CHORUS:
You slip a knife in his back, Jack
Toss a grenade, Jade
You don’t need to be destroy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Blow up his bus, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
Just poison his tea, Lee
And get yourself free

She said it grieves me so
To see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do
To make you smile again
I said I appreciate that
And would you please explain
About the fifty ways

She said why don’t we both
Just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning
You’ll begin to fight the fight
And then she kicked me
And I realized she probably was far-right
Still, there must be fifty ways
To kill your leader
Fifty ways to kill our leader

Danny


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