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Is there an answer in France?

Ian Fiddies | 08.11.2005 09:52 | Analysis | Social Struggles

I cannot condone the violence in France but I can understand it.

Rioting is one of the least effective ways of conducting political protest. The media will report what their owners want them to, which is usually heavily biased if not blatantly untrue. There are nearly always elements that will use a riot situation to further their own criminal ends. Running amok with your mates burning cars and smashing windows is a lot of fun compared to everyday life on a housing estate. The problem is that things get out of hand and people get hurt.

I don’t believe that all police are thugs and a free target for petrol bombs. They do a lot of good, catching criminals and stuff. I believe that the vast majority of police feel that they are doing something important by protecting innocent people, at least when they start their careers.

The problem is not police violence neither is it racial segregation. These are only symptoms of a sick society. If you want people to throw away their lives by playing the consumer/worker game you need more than a carrot. You need a whip called unemployment. To keep down the cost of labour 4 to 10% unemployment rate seems to be the optimal level. The trick is to make the lives of the unemployed worse than the lives of those working till they’re old and knackered in jobs they hate. It seems to be affective, I mean McDonalds doesn’t appear to have recruiting problems and that’s strange isn’t it.

What we have to do is neither to condemn or condone what’s happening in France. Though I must admit burning cars always warms my heart a bit. What we need to do is find another way of living and running our economies that doesn’t require repressing poor people and destroying the environment. If what’s happening in France can help people realise this need to restructure society then some good can be said to have come from an otherwise tragic course of events.

Ian Fiddies
- e-mail: ian.fiddies@mjv.se

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fine sentiments, but...

08.11.2005 10:56

no doubt your objectives are fine: "What we need to do is find another way of living and running our economies that doesn’t require repressing poor people and destroying the environment" but...

"I don’t believe that all police are thugs and a free target for petrol bombs. They do a lot of good, catching criminals and stuff. I believe that the vast majority of police feel that they are doing something important by protecting innocent people, at least when they start their careers."
- most of the "criminals" are there because of the sick society, not because they want to hurt other people. to stop the police force intent on punishing and humiliating them their violence has to be met with counter-violence otherwise this abuse will continue. the french police are notorious for their abuses in the banlieu. what do you suggest people do to defend themselves against them?

"The problem is not police violence neither is it racial segregation. These are only symptoms of a sick society."
- well yes, but they are deeply damaging symptoms that need to be treated. after all - do we have a foolproof cure for that sick society yet? another deeply damaging symptom is the poverty endemic in the racially segregated banlieu, and that also needs to be addressed. the violence and the racial issues are being used by the media to obscure what's really going on: class warfare. it is disempowered victims of prejudice who are suddenly feeling what it's like to run the show for a while, and striking out against their former oppressors - the schools that failed them, the police that beat them, the state that has tried to discipline them into being good little french men and women.

these people are speaking. are we listening?

banlieu bruleur


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Riots in France could spread through Europe

08.11.2005 11:45

The French have long held up their integrationist approach to immigration as a model. Countries with different policies can be forgiven, therefore, for Schadenfreude at the powerlessness of that model to contain rioting over the past 12 days. Yet the rapid spread of the disturbances from the Parisian suburbs to cities such as Toulouse and Strasbourg offers little ground for complacency to neighbours with large immigrant populations, rigid labour laws, self-serving political elites and sluggish economic growth. The torching of cars in Berlin and Brussels over the weekend is a warning that the violence could become more generalised.

Historical comparisons with the May events of 1968, and even the revolutions of 1848, are tempting. Yet to date they are distinguished more by their differences than their similarities. The rioting in France this autumn has no clear political aim beyond an expression of disgust with the government and, in particular, the interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy. It has not attracted other sections of society, in contrast to 1968, when revolutionary students were joined by the trade unions, or to 1848, when widespread demonstrations brought down the July Monarchy of Louis-Philippe in France, and in Austria forced the resignation of Metternich, the architect of the Congress of Vienna. Jacques Chirac may yet make a scapegoat of Mr Sarkozy, but there is no sign as yet that the president will be forced out of office before his term expires in 2007. As for his hopes of a third term, those expired with the constitutional referendum defeat in May.

Yet this is much more than a little local difficulty. In assimilating Muslim immigrants from Africa and Asia, France and its neighbours face a more profound problem than they did with the revolutionaries of previous eras. The cultural divide is greater and is being widened by a radical Islamic movement which preaches hatred of Western materialism. And the sense of impending crisis is deepened by the extraordinary weakness of those in office.

France is marked by fin de régime rivalry between Mr Sarkozy and Dominique de Villepin, the prime minister. Germany faces the sclerosis of a grand coalition. In Italy, Silvio Berlusconi is more discredited than ever. In Britain, while Tony Blair defiantly bangs the security drum, the electorate waits for him to step down. And all this is taking place against a chronic inability to boost sluggish growth. 1968 or 1848 it may not be, but there is in western Europe a general feeling of malaise, of disillusionment with politicians, expressed by low voting figures. On this, the riots rocking France could feed.


Mark


cl 'ass warfare bollocks

08.11.2005 14:19

maybe the US/UK free market economic model turned out better for immigrants?

five rail


fight for your right to party

08.11.2005 14:52

we need new parties again.

a left wing party has to be left wing.

that means speaking for the oppressed in the society, and not speaking for the oppressors. They look after themselves behind closed doors, after all.

time for all this middle way rubbish to be binned.

leftwards ho!

subcommondante ikea hardie


Toussaint had the answer

08.11.2005 16:19

"Liberté, egalité, et fraternité" is the right of all men and holding up his musket in defiance, Toussaint L’Ouverture told Haitians, "Here is your liberty!" Under his leadership rebel slaves defeated the English, French and Spanish. After Toussaint died in Bonaparte’s prison, the rebellious cry in his name was, "War for war, crime for crime, atrocity for atrocity!"

Josephine


The Police in France are famous for thuggery

08.11.2005 21:43

I think you'll find that the Police in France have a very bad reputation and for very good reasons look at  http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/16035.shtml

The riots in Paris would probably never have happened had it not been for heavy handed policing. Stop and search often plays a big role in riots. Eyewitnesses say that the Police chased these kids into the powers substation. The media here later reported that they were thieves, its now emerging that they had committed no crime but were running away maybe because of Police intimidation , reading the Amnesty report might change your opinion of 'the long arm'.at least in France.

Imagine discovering that the half hour powercut was because to of your mates had been fried as a result of running away from harrassment by the Police. Then the victims are framed in the media as criminals. Then you hear from the Home secretary that he is going to "clean out the scum". Maybe you'd be a little miffed

Tom


Agree with Tom

09.11.2005 22:56

French police are violent and criminal towards everyone but especially to any non-white, non-French or non-Christian person. And it isn't just the odd fascist cop, the racism there is institutional and wide-spread. I love the country but it has serious problems.

The riots are a wasted opportunity. Blowing up your neighbours car only impoverishes your neighbour and yourself. There are a myriad of valid targets in France, umpteen of the worst of the worlds arms manufacturers and openly fascist politicians. If the rioters don't change tack then there will be race-war in France. If the rioters do change tack then we could see the promise of soixante-huit fufilled.

Danny


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