Successful Anarchist Bookfair marred by police attack
london imcistas | 23.10.2005 00:53 | Culture | Repression | London
London Anarchist Bookfair was well attended, inspiring and educational as every year. After it ended, police units caused a riot in front of a nearby pub, and arrested at least 4 people, including an indymedia journalist who was taking fotos.
London, 22 October. Thousands of people crammed into the London Voluntary Resource Center in Holloway Road for the 22nd annual Anarchist Bookfair, to buy and trade books, films, t-shirts, stickers, gossip, and new directions for the anarchist movement in Britain and beyond. About three dozen meetings and seminars took place throughout the day, on subjects such as precarious labour conditions, no-borders and migration issues, anarchism in film, housing co-operatives, and the proposed National ID card scheme. Ageing anarchists and their offspring were catered for by an on-site creche.
As the bookfair ended, many people went for a beer at the Coronet pub down the street. At about 6:20, some people began playing music on a small portable sound system inside the pub. The bar management said that there would be no more beer until the music was shut down. After a while, the music went off, then back on, then off again. At this point, the police arrived outside. Management went round the pub, informing people that they were closing on police advice. Prior to 7:00, about 8 police officers confronted people as they left the pub, arresting the person who went forward to try to negotiate with them. Some people in the crowd attempted to de-arrest the person, more police vans arrived, and riot police baton-charged down Holloway Road, beating people as they went. During the fray, an Indymedia photographer taking pictures was knocked to the ground, handcuffed, and arrested. At the time of writing, Oct 23, 1.30 am, he is still held in the police station. There were at least 4 arrests, and about 10 vans full of riot police, plaincothes and regular uniforms, with some additional cycle cops deployed.
This resulted in more scuffles and a smashed window on a police car. Police on the scene were unable to confirm the number of arrests, the nature of the charges, or even who was in charge of the police operation.
As the bookfair ended, many people went for a beer at the Coronet pub down the street. At about 6:20, some people began playing music on a small portable sound system inside the pub. The bar management said that there would be no more beer until the music was shut down. After a while, the music went off, then back on, then off again. At this point, the police arrived outside. Management went round the pub, informing people that they were closing on police advice. Prior to 7:00, about 8 police officers confronted people as they left the pub, arresting the person who went forward to try to negotiate with them. Some people in the crowd attempted to de-arrest the person, more police vans arrived, and riot police baton-charged down Holloway Road, beating people as they went. During the fray, an Indymedia photographer taking pictures was knocked to the ground, handcuffed, and arrested. At the time of writing, Oct 23, 1.30 am, he is still held in the police station. There were at least 4 arrests, and about 10 vans full of riot police, plaincothes and regular uniforms, with some additional cycle cops deployed.
This resulted in more scuffles and a smashed window on a police car. Police on the scene were unable to confirm the number of arrests, the nature of the charges, or even who was in charge of the police operation.
london imcistas
Comments
Hide the following 56 comments
Cops online
23.10.2005 14:49
S
pics and video needed
23.10.2005 17:29
all photos and videos even phone photos and videos wanted also witness statments needed too.
mail imc uk at imc-uk-evidence(at)indymedia.org.uk (replace the (at) with @
see also
thanks
zcat
Successful bookfair marred by morons
23.10.2005 18:03
Anarchism isn't a licence to do whatever you want and fuck everybody else. These people are a cancer on the anarchist movement. We can't always blame the police and ignore the actions of these dicks.
anarcho
7 still in custory
23.10.2005 18:21
Any other known information would be welcome.
nope
Hmmm
23.10.2005 20:05
As the people arrested were nothing to do with the sound system, and everything to do with the cops over-reacting and being their usual bully boy selves.
Surely any type of anarcho can see that bringing a busy London street to a halt for 90 minutes is disproportionate for the offence of playing crap music in a chain pub.
a different brand of anarcho
"Nothing to do with it"... LMAO
23.10.2005 22:37
This is so immature its laughable. Someone ask a copper but I dont think using a sound system in a pub IS even arrestable is it? Were you even there? It didnt even enter your tiny little mind that they might have done something else to aggravate the situation, like those throwing the bottles and other missiles outside or maybe trying to "de-arrest" someone, (Oh how I laughed at that one).
Wake up and smell the coffee for Gods sake!!!
Sir Cumspect
Anarchist Morons
24.10.2005 09:08
Thousands? Come of it.
What complete political idiocy. Going into a pub with a sound system. Being told to fuck off by the staff. Not obeying them. And then complaining when the police came. I hate cops and I love the left but if I was in that pub and you lot turned up doing that, I would just kick you until you stopped moving.
Arrests? Good riddance to rubbish.
ps it highlights the problem with Anarchist politics. Nobody is accountable for their actions. Therefore all talk of democracy is hollow.
When will you learn
When will you learn
24.10.2005 10:40
What a joke!
bewlidered
Over reaction
24.10.2005 10:52
Unfortunately I could not help any UK Indymedia journalist since they are know supporting religions it is more fair that they help them.
rex
Didn't gloss over the moronic content here
24.10.2005 12:06
Now, on the one hand, we can say that beating people and making 7 arrests is an insane reaction to some people playing (admittedly crap) music and dancing in a pub for a few minutes. We have no control over this. On the other hand, it's as clear as night following day that pub management will call the police when people in the place start playing music loudly and refuse to turn it off. With hundreds of anarchists leaving a pub and being confronted by police, and a full riot squad just down the road patrolling the Arsenal match, this is not a situation likely to enhance social peace. The people playing music acted like idiots, they endangered other people, and now 7 comrades have spent the weekend in jail and face charges due to their actions. In my opinion, they should be barred from all social centres and events, basically kicked out of the movement.
yossarian
Silly Mishap mismanaged
24.10.2005 12:39
Another commentor should note that with the crowd inside a big building using three floors, and people coming and going all day, there could well have been thousands involved.
Here is the report on Indycymru taken from one who was three back from the initial action at the pub:
"Re: London Weekend
by Ilyan on Oct 22, 2005 - 10:34 PM
Someone took a sound system into a neighbouring pub, possibly a Wetherspoons, and started dancing. A welsh reporter who ws present said said they were briskly evicted by pub staff, but that police then arrived, and arrested someone who called one of the Police a prick. Which seemed to trigger general mayhem and confusion, with various reports of a woman head hit with a truncheon, and having a head bashed against a Police vehicle. Police arrived in riot gear, and seemed to just stand about. There was no effort made to clear the road for the buses to get through, or to divert the buses around the disturbance to maintain their service further down their routes.
Requests to speak to the senior officer present led to a series of misdirections so that the obvious message to restore bus flow did not get through and there was about an hour delay for those wanting to use the bus service.
One enterprising bus driver turned in the street and dropped his passenger to walk past the block, going back along his route to provide some service for the stranded. That was Anarchy in action, I wonder if he was hauled over the coals for his enterprise. or is there a bus service medal he can be awarded.
What to call the people who tried to set up a sound system in a pub that may not have been licensed for music escapes me."
There seemed to be much misunderstanding all around. And there did not appear to be a competent senior Police Officer present. - because the bus service was not quickly restored. These appeared to be the Police laid on to manage a football match.
I examined one of the largest piece of smashed glass in the road and concluded that it came from a beer glass. Dropped it back to become smaller less dangerous pieces. Asked a policeman if they carried a brush in one of their vans, not allowed, health and safety! Must be left to the Council Workers, perhaps it was Union Solidarity, but on this occasion I did not start advocating the Police join the IWW, which at present it might be lawful for them to do as the IWW is not presently formally registered in the UK as a Trade Union. I missed propaganda opportunity there!
I was a little surprised at the way some people were trying to talk themselves into getting arrested at quite a late stage. There is one thing Police hate, and that is paperwork, do not try to find out where the boundary lies, make friends not enemies.
There is a possibility that the whole thing was engineered by agent provocateurs to make it difficult to find a home for the Anarchist Bookfair next year. More likely pure happenstance?
Ilyan
bah, bitter taste
24.10.2005 13:42
It has to be said clearly that these people calling for exclusion are either trolls, or using the cloak of anarchism to disguise their intollerant and authoritarian tendencies. Get your ideologies right guys and gals - if you're in favour of mutual aid, cooperation, and a society built on trust and tolerance for others then sort it out. If you favour sectarian intolerance, punishment and retribution, then join Labour, the BNP, Lib Dems etc. Are these people now calling for the excommunication of everyone who doesn't do exactly as they demand?! Do you want an anarchist movement thats inward looking and exclusive of the rest of the 99% of the population? Fuck you if you are.
This must surely a sign that the social conditions of a country affect whatever anarchist scene exists there. Here we have the most authoritarian government for quite a while in the Western World - with virtually no organised and effective resistance....and the anarchist movement begins to ape that very government and society. WTF?! This is probably why the movement wallows in individualist nonsense, arguing theoretical points about revolution over and above forming into larger networks of organised communities ready to work towards anarchy and working with people who they have/will disagree with (probably on minute points of abstract theory, or even worse, spiritualism).
Talk about people being TOTALLY brainwashed and conditioned by capitalism and authoritarianism. Anarchism to these people must be some kind of lifestyle choice with absolutely no substance. They can hang around their social centres, enjoying the parties and music they organise, excluding everyone who isn't a vegan, has a job, does things they disagree with from time to time etc etc [ad infinitum]. If that's what your social centres are - an island of hypocracy in a sea of capitalism -, and what they are for - for collective masterbation about your status as standard bearers for anarchism, - then enjoy the orgasm without the rest of us. Pretty soon you're going to be as inbred and irrelevant as the royal family.
Royal Tosser
Whispers of an Anarchist planet
24.10.2005 13:42
- “Yes Tiger-Lilly?”
“What can we do to ensure the book fair goes off without incident?”
-“Well, there are lots of riot cops down the road at the Arsenal match, maybe we could get them all up here if we took a sound system into the local Witherspoons and played it until they call the police”
“Great idea, but shouldn’t we put this to a vote?
-“What are you some sort of Trot? I thought I knew you man. I guess I was wrong…”
“OK ok, I was just asking.”
-“Well alright, but don’t ever mention such an idiotic thing again. Now hand me that Cold Play CD.”
Where can I sign up
question for RT
24.10.2005 14:18
Yes, I am an anarchist, in answer to your question.
Now, let me get this straight. I am saying that the police reaction was insane brutality - but I am also saying it was predictable that this is the case, and that we don't have any control over it. You are saying it's "authoritarian" for me to be angry at the people who managed to get ten vanloads of riot cops called in, when this was perfectly predictable given the situation? Keep in mind I am also angry as hell at the police - but do you seriously think there is no problem at all with the actions of the people with the sound system? Seven people arrested, some of them having put a decade of hard, every-day, grinding work into building up a movement, and from what I can tell the people with the sound system had heroically fled the scene, leaving others to be beaten and arrested. I am happy to be corrected on this point if I'm wrong.
Anyway, don't just give me platitudes about freedom and how bad the police are, and don't give me any crap about how I am "authoritarian" if I want to see people take *responsibility* for their actions. Please answer the questions: do you see a problem here? If so, how do we work to solve it? If it is "authoritarian" to demand that people should be excluded (and I do not agree), then what solution would you propose?
Solidarity,
Y
yossarian
response
24.10.2005 14:39
Saying that the people who played the music should be kicked out of the movement is a nonsense. Happily no-one is in a position to do that. They should however be made to feel like the idiots they are and question the intellegence of what they did.
It's inevitable and necessary that if a few cops try to arrest 1 person in a crowd of anarchists (or any community of people) that the police should be resisted.
The police are not our friends and will never be. They should be treated with the contempt that they treat us with.
The reaction of the police cannot be justified. Grabbing, kicking and punching people all they way down the street with no explaination is illegal and, more importantly, wrong. They will however get away with it.
A small silver lining for those arrested and held all weekend should be some compensation down the line. This of course is all budgeted for by the police and will have no effect on their policing of situations in the future. They will continue to be free to break the laws they are supposed to be upholding.
There were undoubtedly thousands of people attending the bookfair over the day and it seemed to me to be a hugely succesful day.
not telling
a reply
24.10.2005 17:10
And the interesting point is not whether you consider yourself an anarchist - anyone can - (or whether I behave as one - that is not necessarily the point right now) - but whether a real anarchist movement can emerge from a society drowning in its own pomposity and authoritarian tendencies. E.g. Britain. Your original posting didn't really make me feel too confident about this.
RT
It wasn't a 'sound system'!
24.10.2005 17:11
get it in perspective!!
was there largin it up
woman in black/feeler et al
24.10.2005 17:19
click on 'newswire archive'
then click on page 2024..
and viola! your missing post.
here's a link in case it's all too complicated -.
and
didn't appear to be hidden from here.
lady in red
Not MY Comrades
24.10.2005 17:40
Spartacus
yossarian
24.10.2005 17:48
M
to rt
24.10.2005 17:56
> the people in the pub, telling them to turn it off. We should not need either
> pub managers nor the police to deal with situations like these.
They were asked to shut it off by at least one person (a friend who was sitting at the same table as me). They didn't shut it down for another 10 minutes, then fired it up again 10 minutes after that. By that time, the management had called the cops, and sure as you can't steer a train, the situation was rolling in a single direction.
> Saying that the people who played the music should be kicked out of the movement
> is a nonsense. Happily no-one is in a position to do that. They should however
> be made to feel like the idiots they are and question the intellegence of what
> they did.
I don't see why it is nonsense. There are consequences for actions. Do you want these people at your back in a tricky situation? They have already proved themselves capable of turning a perfectly sociable beer-in-a-pub into a really horrible thing, with beatings and relatively large numbers of arrests (more than, say, some of the pre-G8 demonstrations).
> It's inevitable and necessary that if a few cops try to arrest 1 person in a
> crowd of anarchists (or any community of people) that the police should be
> resisted.
I agree completely.
> The police are not our friends and will never be. They should be treated with
> the contempt that they treat us with.
>
> The reaction of the police cannot be justified. Grabbing, kicking and punching
> people all they way down the street with no explaination is illegal and, more
> importantly, wrong. They will however get away with it.
I agree with you here too. I think where we disagree is not with respect to the actions of the pigs, it's a question of whether we should try to hold *our own* people responsible when they fuck things up for everyone. I was impressed with your listing of the faults of the UK anarchist movement (above), I would only add that it's morons like these ones who are guilty of "excessive individualism", and that unless we can demonstrate that our ideals of mutual aid, personal responsibility, and solidarity are anything more than hot air, we will continue to be an "inward-looking" sect that is not of interest to the vast majority of people.
As an aside, in other places, the anarchist movement is capable of fielding closely-knit units of people who can go into the streets and get things done in the face of police repression that makes the UK look like a kindergarten. I have been unimpressed with the approach of the UK anarchists on demonstrations; discounting the Clowns and the Samba Band, who are special cases, the main street tactics appear to be "let's all hang back and argue with the cops while we drink beer and get generally boozy; at the critical moment, we will throw our empty beer cans at the cops." There is little discipline or effective organization that I can see, and I would not want to depend on people like the ones we are discussing during a street action, they are too likely to be drunk and incapable of keeping their cool. I am not trying to say there are no exceptions to this, but it does generally appear to me to be the case. If we want to transcend this situation, I think we should be taking a good long look at ourselves and seeing what we can do about it. I don't see that excluding people who are a danger to others is in any way incompatible with anarchism. I would even say that I would love to see less (in fact, none) of our people drunk on demonstrations, and generally higher standards of personal conduct, especially when interacting with people who are not anarchists. We are fighting for a social revolution, not the right to piss on ourselves in public and act like children.
I am probably being too hard on these people, and in retrospect I feel bad that I didn't go over and talk to them and ask them to chill out, I should have done but it didn't seem like anything more than people acting stupid - in retrospect it is easy to see that bad consequences were fairly easy to predict (my friend who did ask them to stop was perhaps more on the ball than me). So I am not excepting myself from criticism here.
> A small silver lining for those arrested and held all weekend should be some
> compensation down the line. This of course is all budgeted for by the police and
> will have no effect on their policing of situations in the future. They will
> continue to be free to break the laws they are supposed to be upholding.
This assumes that charges will not be pressed. I am not clear whether this is in fact true at this point, your information may be more up-to-date than mine. Hopefully this is the case, yes.
> There were undoubtedly thousands of people attending the bookfair over the day
> and it seemed to me to be a hugely succesful day.
Yeah, I scored a copy of "Workers Councils" that I've been looking forward to getting for years.
yossarian
Yossarian
24.10.2005 18:07
Are you absolutely certain that wasn't the cops?
reflect
whoops
24.10.2005 18:29
>towards 'exclusion' and 'retribution' are still there.
Yep. Thanks for not responding to anything I said, I mistook the "a response" post above for your reply.
>The police acted in-line with a fucked up sick and
>authoritarian society. We should criticise those who hurt and harm people.
Sure. But our influence on the internal cop-structure is pretty minimal. What do we do about taking responsibility for ourselves and our movement, where presumably we have both the power to change things and the responsibility to do so?
yossarian
response to response
24.10.2005 20:15
"I don't see why it is nonsense. There are consequences for actions. Do you want these people at your back in a tricky situation? They have already proved themselves capable of turning a perfectly sociable beer-in-a-pub into a really horrible thing, with beatings and relatively large numbers of arrests (more than, say, some of the pre-G8 demonstrations). "
Who are "these people"? Should we all get membership cards and get black marks against our names if we fuck up? Who decides?
It could hardly have been foreseen that bringing a sound system into the pub could have lead to what happened. However it was just plain rude to think they could stroll in and call the shots in a (vast chain) pub.
not telling
Smash the Cistern...
24.10.2005 21:02
Maybe they should have their Crass badges confiscated???
;-)
Anne Archie
Grow up
24.10.2005 21:58
I am sure no real harm was meant by the fools who decided to inflict their music on the masses.However as a mother of a very young baby, along with many other parents in the pub, I think it was wholely irresponsible to put those kids in danger for what point?
If I am involved in an action, or go to a demo, I make informed choices on my and my children's safety. In this instance I had no opportunity to make an informed choice.
Being a drugged up crusty raver does not make you a good anarchist.
The over reaction of the cops is a given, the arrests and hospitalisations could have been avoided if not for this stupidity.
Tiily
Stop with the stupid stereotypes
25.10.2005 08:07
Taking a baby into a pub full of people who have just left the anarchist bookfair was a judgement on your part. Not every parent would have done that!
"Being a drugged up crusty raver does not make you a good anarchist."
Nor does being a judgemental woman hiding behind behind a baby!
The arrests and beatings that set the thing off were not the work of the people with da tunes - they were the work of a bunch of cops who didn't have a clue about how to behave in the situation in which they found themselves, and whose base instinct told them that they should start beating people at the earliest opportunity.
If all the anarchists and psuedo anarchists and mummies with their babies had let the cops take the first arresstee away, then it could well have fizzled out. So, perhaps you want to advocate that real anarchists would have let the cops do whatever they wanted to?
This non political incident is sure revealing heaps about the authoritarian and small minded attitudes of a whole host of self professed anarchists.
george
Da George
25.10.2005 12:21
Spartacus
we have nothing to loose but your chainpubs
25.10.2005 12:25
If you are an anarchist then surely you live your politics. Is this lifestylism or are your mouths stuffed with corpses.
In those moments of freedom, such as the silly incident inside the pub which involved dancing and music there is space to feel alive in a society of the walking dead.
miss cheef
Take the toys from the boys
25.10.2005 12:39
T
Spartacus strawman
25.10.2005 12:41
So, to have worked out that I prefer wimmen at the kitchen sink must be an indication that you are one of Tiily's 'drugged up crusty raver(s)' Spartacus.
A smoke filled pub, full of anarchists in a society where cops like attacking anarchists is the best place for a little baby. Yes or no?
george
"Idiots With Squawkbox Came To Liberate Masses From Misery Of Drink And Alienati
25.10.2005 17:34
“So, to have worked out that I prefer wimmen at the kitchen sink must be an indication that you are one of Tiily's 'drugged up crusty raver(s)' Spartacus.”
There’s more logic in ‘da’ glue-bag George.
“A smoke filled pub, full of anarchists in a society where cops like attacking anarchists is the best place for a little baby. Yes or no?”
The family area is no-smoking, why not get off your high-horse, and admit you’re talking shit. For all your macho posturing, it wasn’t your pals with ‘da tunes’ who were fighting with the cops and de-arresting people, nor were they the ones who got nicked, or the ones who got hurt, they were too busy running down the street with their precious sound-system.
Spartacus
The family area is no smoking
25.10.2005 17:49
Was it a good place for a little baby?
Yes or no?
george
women know your place
25.10.2005 18:17
It seems that in his tiny mind women, especially those with children,should avoid anarchists for fear of being attacked by the cops!
T
Taking the toys from the boys
25.10.2005 18:29
Red N Black
The Moral Lowground
25.10.2005 19:07
Spartacus
George's Anarcho-Volk
25.10.2005 19:16
Barney
You're welcome to the "moral highground"
25.10.2005 19:42
So, if you and Tiily are so concerned about little babies health, you two should have shared the baby sitting, so that you could both indulge your concern for little babies health, and drink alcohol, whilst pontificating about the evils of the " drugged up crusty raver" who aren't REAL ANARCHISTS like you in a consistent way. Or does the woman do all the child minding in your relationship?
Anyway, lets go back to the point you made about the " drugged up crusty raver(s)"
" it wasn’t your pals with ‘da tunes’ who were fighting with the cops and de-arresting people, nor were they the ones who got nicked, or the ones who got hurt, they were too busy running down the street with their precious sound-system."
Firstly, they weren't my mates. One of my mates was put to the ground by the cops, handcuffed and taken to cells for a very long time. Other of my mates were involved in attempted de-arrests and in being pushed about by the cops. But what your point make clear is that the violence wasn't down to the sound system crew - it was down to the cops and the people who resisted them.
T (who I'm certain is Tiily), like you, needs to go and read my post again. The only ones making the assumption that childcare is the sole preserve of women are Tiily, Spartacus and Red N Black.
The most interesting thing about the Coronet adventure is that it it reveals how many self-identifying anarchos have exactly the same mindset as Tony Blair and his "anti-social" drive ) - a bunch of small minded bigots who just want to be left to enjoy a quiet drink in a chainpub, with no-one rocking the boat.
Make no mistake, the cops would have turned up at some point - and chances are, with a bit more corporate beer inside them, the anarchos would have reacted in a way which resulted in for more arrests and more serious charges.
As I said right at the beginning, taking a little baby into that environment involves making a judgement. Many parents would not have done what Tiily did.
Now feel free to enjoy the "moral highground" , okay!
george
Barney
25.10.2005 20:00
george
Hang on a minute....
25.10.2005 20:44
We all have a go at each other, blaming the crusties (I think we are all agreed that they are silly buggers who should be put before the Revolutionary Committee and have their Crass badges confiscated for one month or until such time as they can agree not to go upsetting the Real Working Class anymore... But havn't we all done daft things in pubs at some point in our lives?? Its just bad luck that this one escalated out of control...), saying women who take children in to pubs with anarchists in are irresponsible, doing the Moral Policeman bit about whether anyone who's a 'true anarchist' should have been in a 'chain pub' in the first place, accusing each other of being reactionary/undercover coppers/'lifestylists', etc, etc... Its getting like that Peoples Front of Judeah scene in Life of Brian ('Splitters!')
I bet the cops reading this are rolling up with laughter- who needs the Daily Mail when we can slag each other off so well?? Lets get a sense of perspective here for goodness sake, whats done is done, and I don't really see the point of all this blame aportioning unless its to learn lessons from history in order to prevent it happening again.
The important thing now is supporting our comrades who were nicked, getting together evidence and eye-witness accounts to help these 7 comrades out and if possible prosecute any cops who were out of order, as well as showing a bit of solidarity with each other in these difficult times surely????
Splitter
St George Drags On
25.10.2005 21:17
Spartacus
Anarchists in chain pub shame
25.10.2005 21:40
Why were you in a chain pub drinking corporate beer...
You have made assumptions about many people that attended the book fair with their children. There was a creche at the book fair but you probably were unaware of that as it seems you were in weatherspoons drinking all afternoon. It is not a crime to take children into a family friendly pub however perhaps george would have them all ASBOed?
Corporate watch
Sp sp splitt sp sp spart sp sp
25.10.2005 21:42
Haha - close on 24 hours in a cell for nothing is actually a very long time - especially when you're being threatened with serious charges. Ask your mates.
" You seem to think that the afternoon was somehow enhanced by the arrogant and selfish behaviour of the arseholes with the sound-system"
Do I? Thats news to me Spartacus.
" that they rescued us from some sort of corporate nightmare (presumably you were just in there as an observer yourself)"
You're making it up, right? Wetherspoons is a supermarket, but there are times you can't avoid using them. If you don't think we're living in a corporate nightmare, then I hate to think what your idea of a corporate nightmare is. I think the sound system "action" was silly, but I think the small minded reaction is even sillier.
"All that they did was piss people off, and give the cops an excuse to start nicking people"
Yeah I noticed the outrage and I maintain its OTT. The cops need an excuse to start nicking people now? They don't usually. They tend to think they can nick people whenever they feel like it in my experience.
" You appear to be alone in springing to their defence, something you have done in a particularly sanctimonious fashion, lashing out at easy targets, backpeddling like fuck, and clutching at the straws of a ludicrous argument as they blow away in the wind."
And you appear to be resorting to personal insults - a sure sign of losing it.
I think you'll find there are quite a few people saying that the sound system crew were silly,but blaming them for what the cops did is even sillier.
Splitter - it seems to me that theres a need for an airing of different views - a challenging of the silliness.
Who cares what the cops think? And what difference does it make?
george
?
25.10.2005 21:50
Great argument George!
Barney
Indeed
25.10.2005 21:54
Spartacus
Corporate Watch and assumptions
25.10.2005 22:03
I was in there with mates. And I didn't drink any corporate beer.
"You have made assumptions about many people that attended the book fair with their children."
Perhaps - just like you've made assumptions about me.
" There was a creche at the book fair but you probably were unaware of that as it seems you were in weatherspoons drinking all afternoon."
I'm perfectly aware that the Bookfair has a creche, and I attended a few workshops in the afternoon, as well as being in the pub.
" It is not a crime to take children into a family friendly pub however perhaps george would have them all ASBOed?"
I can assure you I wouldn't even contemplate ASBOs. Personally, if I had a child I would probably have taken it into the pub. But I reckon I would have taken responsibility for doing so, and wouldn't have started moaning that a sound system made a place full of booze and cigarrettes unsafe. And I wouldn't have started mouthing off about "drug fuelled crusty ravers" not being REAL anarchists.
And I would have laid the blame for the violence where it belongs - with the bully boy cops and the people who stood up to them.
Not the kids running down the road with their sound system.
Its easy to fling about assumptions and accusations, is it not?
george
Corporate Beer
25.10.2005 22:19
>I was in there with mates. And I didn't drink any corporate beer.
I noticed a better selection of beers, including from independent brewers and I think at least one 'guest' choice from a microbrewery, in the Coronet, than in the presumably more 'authentic' pub opposite on the corner, where I ended up spending the evening seperated from folks I'd arranged to meet up with, where they didn't even have any hand pulled ales (only 'corporate' beers) in stock.
Homer Simpson
I Don't Have To Ask My Mates
25.10.2005 22:21
Having spent hundreds of thousands of hours in police and prison cells, I don't have to ask my mates. Not that I underestimate the trauma of a single night in the cells, but it isn't "a very long time.
Your contradicting yourself more and more with each post George, and I doubt it's just the cops that are laughing.
Spartacus
D'oh
25.10.2005 22:37
Spartacus: I'm sure it felt like a very long time to those arrested. Hopefully you were in all those cells for a REAL reason.
I've had my fun. I'm bored. I'm off.
george
OK It's Settled
25.10.2005 22:46
Helpful
getting back on track
25.10.2005 23:10
...oh, and whether we should bring kids into pubs....
But isn't the question whether we want to start apeing the society that Tony Blair so wants to create? A society free of 'anti-social behaviour' and totally controlled. I'm sorry, but much of the criticism against the sound system people is so influenced by Tony Blair's morality that I find it hard to believe that the commentators even bothered going to the book fair in the first place. I mean, you can get those sort of attitudes from all of the papers on sale today - you don't need to travel from afar to hear then at the A-Bookfair.
With so many so-called-anarchists so keep to ape Tony Blair, is it even worth trying to create an anarchist alternative that isn't in some way a kind of miss-formed copy of Tony Blair's Third Way? And is it worth bothering when even the most 'free thinkers' opinions and emotional responses are so moulded by the environment they inhabit?
Royal Tosser
Off topic apologies
26.10.2005 07:22
Sorry thats me being mischievious...
Right, enough of these diversions, back to good old solid revolutionary back-biting and points scoring...
Homer Simpson
Pathetic
26.10.2005 13:13
According to you. Apparently, to other people, it wasn't funny.
"Not annoying"
Again, according to you. Good thing that you're God, and what you say goes. If you say it's funny, it's funny. It's you say it's not annoying, it's not annoying.
If it wasn't annoying, then why on earth would the staff complain and then call the cops? It's funny, the far left supposedly wants to liberate the working class. So, here we have members of the working class who have to put up with a bunch of self-righteous gits. Do these people show some sympathy and co-operate with - after all, anarchism is supposedly based on cooperation and mutual aid - these members of the working class? No no; I'll do what I want, and anyone who says anything different is Stalin.
"It is a sign of an authoritarian social system, not of people being to blame for this by playing music and dancing."
Right, it's someone else's fault, not theirs. They're oppressed. It's the staff's fault, it's the coppers' fault, it's the government's fault, it's their parents' fault, it's their teachers' fault, the hierarchical school system - it's certainly not THEIR fault that other people found their behaviour obnoxious and annoying.
By this argument, Bush and Blair aren't responsible for invading Iraq. After all, they're products of their environment too. No one is responsible for anything they do. They're helpless puppets to the authoritarian social system.
It's funny, anarchism (supposedly) is about no RULERS, not no rules. Yet, in practice, it seems to be mostly about rebellion for the sake of rebellion. Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me; not co-operation. An anarchist society, as it's represented on this thread, seems to be one where anybody can do anything they want at any time and anyone who tells them to put a lid on it is "authoritarian." I look forward to this utopia where my neighbours will be blasting music at 3am while more sensible people are screaming at them to keep it down and the whole thing devolves into a fistfight. Sounds like paradise.
Self-righteous, arrogant, inconsiderate, WANKERS.
chris
chris
Boring
27.10.2005 12:40
bimble
Back to earth
27.10.2005 13:28
Let's remember what happened.
After a large event many of the peple who had been there went to the nearest pub (two doors down) to chat with people and have a beer. The pub was not only the closest but also one which could accomodate a large number of people, thus allowing general socialising and not just a drink with say 10 people (as indeed it gets used for with other large events at the LVSC centre).
Maybe 150 - 200 people were in there and it was all fine and dandy (though ny numbers may be a little off).
A very small number of people played some music on a stereo for a relatively short time, on and off. Staff objected to this, as did other people in the pub, as did people who apparently knew them. They initialy refused to turn the music off.
The police were called by staff / manager.
The rest was predictable, as police arrest first one person, then others as they quickly bring out the batons and hit people. The pub is closed with people leaving the crowd gets bigger and more police keep arriving.
There was even an armed police unit there with police wearing holstered handguns in the crowd.
It could have been a lot worse...
Seven people arrested, I'm not sure what for, but I know at least two did nothing to provoke their arrest. The police try to fit them up.
starlight
yawn punch wank
31.10.2005 18:29
RT