Isn't it sad that the whole of life in Britain today can be summed up by the contents of 'Animal Farm' and '1984'. What have we come to?
On that note, if any of you New Reich sheep feel like some of your 'disruptive' trolling, please consider my request. When I notice one of your sad posts, I always wonder which one of those goons passing themselves off as 'ordinary' people during Blair's 'election' campaign is you. Why don't you post a picture from one of those many phoney arranged New Reich 'photo-ops' that were created around Blair, and circle whichever mock joe-public character you played. You work hard and deserve some recognition after all!
Have you all lost all sense of perspective! FACT - Nazi Germany systematically and deliberately killed millions of men, women and children, almost anhilating a race. As far as I am aware kicking one old fella out of a conference in no way a moral equivalence.
Merely quoting Orwell is not an argument, Orwell never lived lived in a society where woman are afraid to walk the streets, pensioners are mugged, Islamist terrorists murder innocent civilians, and animal activists value the life of animals more than people. He wrote challanging and though provoking political fiction, however cutting and pasting an Orwell quote is just lazy
Now I know as well as you that its all a big Mossad black op, my sources tell me that security at the Labour party conference is being run by, inter alia, Mossad, CIA, MI6, Esso and sponsored by the "Penguin Big Book of Conspiracy theories".
Observer, if you weren't here trying to impose your own twisted perspective on the rest of us, you might well have noticed the institutional intolerance of dissent that is gaining momentum in this country - and that the eviction of Wolfgang for interjecting with the word "Rubbish" during the conference of his own party is sympomatic of.
Instead you're pushing the agenda that Judaism is a race, when quite clearly it was Askenazim who were under systematic attack - the majority of theSephardim were not at risk from the concentration in Europe.
"Orwell never lived lived in a society where woman are afraid to walk the streets"
Well, that is patently bollocks
" pensioners are mugged"
It would be surprising in people of pensionable age were never robbed in Orwell's time
"Islamist terrorists murder innocent civilians"
So do neo-cons and zionists and nu-labourites -
"animal activists value the life of animals more than people"
Aah - so your "sense of perspective" is dictated to you by the tabloid press?
And whilst Tony Blair has his tongue firmly entrenched up Ariel's bottom, he is quite capable of instilling his own brand of fascism - thank you very much.
As Wolfgang can now tell you from experience.
When they close down Indymedia, how will you impose your own zionist tabloid fuelled 'observations' on us - will you get a job in one of the 're-education camps' and show us how to observe things correctly?
So we are not yet at the stage where millions of [white] people are killed.
Your point?
If you cannot see the writing on the wall, then it is no suprise that people like you only pop up in this place to poo poo other peoples writing.
How much DU must we drop on Iraq before the similarities become apparent to you?
How many East Timorise?
etc etc bloody etc ...
Blair is out of control, deaf to criticism and murdering freely out in the other world ... maybe even here in old blighty too, if some of the speculation about the pecularities of 7/7 are to be believed.
... and that is what it comes down to, belief.
You don't believe it is as bad as nazi germany here, fair point. Will you act only then?
Probably a bit late by then innit?
Twilight ... you are a star. I love a bit of poetry with me politics ... you seem to be on the money ... as they say ... if only evidenced by the howls and insults directed at you by the usual dreary band of 'finger in ear' 'can't happen hear' 'queens shilling takers'.
"Have you all lost all sense of perspective! FACT - Nazi Germany systematically and deliberately killed millions of men, women and children, almost anhilating a race. As far as I am aware kicking one old fella out of a conference in no way a moral equivalence."
Yes you fucking moron, they did that towards the end of the war, what we are seeing now in Britatin and America is exactly like the Nazi's fascist state developed after Hitler was made chancellor, created phony Communist terrorist attacks and suspended civil liberties, only a lot more fucking scary because the databasing and propaganda technology have advanced so far.
Do you even know the history of the third reich or did you just catch 15 mins of Nazis, Hitler and the Uber-Men on the Discovery channel. What we are living through now is the equivalent of Germany 1936-1938, tension, mistrust, paranoia, propaganda, scapegoating, arrogant misuse of state power etc. before the war even started.
That one man the security 'hired goons' decided to manhandle out of the building was the one voice at the Labour Party conference to speak out while Jack Straw stood in front of what is supposed to be his own party and told blatant lie after lie after big fat obvious lie about Iraq. Then that one elderly, octogenarian man who spoke out was detained under the new 'prevention of terrorism' laws, once again clearly showing such laws as having nothing to do with the prevention of terrorism and everything to do with the prevention of dissent and the complete destruction of our freedom by the slow steady expansion of a police state.
I say it is you, Observer, who has lost all sense of perspectve, historical perspective, moral perspective and your entire perpective of reality. To post on this site such odious, trite, self-deluding bullshit shows all of us that you are either in total denial or that you are willfully ignoring the truth. You have the cheek to argue about 'moral equivolence' when you clearly have no morals yourself. You are either a complete fucking idiot or a nasty little apologist for Blair's unhidden fascist agenda.
Please feel free to kill yourself at the first available opportunity.
1. This week Britain will be advocating the Turkey should be part of the E.U., as a reward for Turkey's non-intervention in Kurdistan. Fact: Turkish government still claims the genocide of Armenians before WW I did not happen.
2. Fact: Britain is an ally of Russia a country who until recently was practicing genocide in Chechnya.
3. Fact: Britain supports US Guntanamo concentration camp by providing interrogators and using intelligence gained by torture, something banned in Britain since the 17th century.
4. Fact: George Orwell fought Islamic terrorists of General Franco and Bolshevicks of Joe Stalin who demanded discipline and authoritarian solutions, read Homage to Catalonia.
5. Fact: Read Down and Out in Paris and London for what George really saw and it was a lot worse than what happens on the streets now, but he did not advocate fascism as a solution.
6. Fact: Fascism does not start with gas chambers it ends in them
7. Fact: Twilight is an idiot of the Rick from the Young Ones style politics, Observer what is your excuse New Labour stooge or apologist for tyranny?
9. Fact: The British empire fought Islamic terrorism for 200 years in India without abandoning civil liberties in the UK.
10. Fact: No one is chucking you out of Indymedia for saying what you think, however crass, ill informed or ignorant you may be. But one word from an old man is enough to be detained under the terrorism act. Spot the difference muppet. I guess with your head up your own arse your perspective is a bit limited.
FACT! (as if stating it in uppercase makes it appear plausible, LOL)
The New Labour Party has been a willing accomplice in the murder of countless men, women and children in occupied Iraq via bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes. This is a fact that needs no capitisation to make it stand up.
The comparison to NAZI Germany is solid. Are you one of the ´good Englishers´ that not only turns a blind eye, but attempts to lie about the facts on the ground that are staring us in the face ?
In reality differences between the 2 are v v small if any at all. Can any1 find a difference between the expansion policy of NAZI Germany and Britain? Britain has a large history of expanding and conquering and if u think thats a thing of the past.. well i suggest u dont talk to any Iraqis, Afghans, or Yugoslavs about it. About the annihilation of a race. Why dont you go to belmarsh prison and tell me if you can find any similarities amongst the inmates there. I think ul find that the people there are all from ethnic minority groups and most if not all are in there for no reason. O yea and lets not forget that Britain should claim responsibility for the mess it made out of Palestine back in 48, and we are now witnessing the gradual anihilation of a race which Britain (along with others of course) chooses to do nothing about even though it started this mess.
Reference your lucid and logical points. However dear chap, Im afraid you are missing the whole point of these so called independant forums. You see, it is never the actual topic that attracts interest from these 'Defenders of Liberty'.
You will soon see that prolonged support for an issue has a 'Flavour of the Month' longevity: Brian Haw, the unfortunate chap who was shot by the Met and the old geezer who was ousted by over zealous stewards ( an obvious direct order from the Front Bench) will be a long forgotten memory when a new 'outrage' appears on the horizon. The main raison d' etre of the 'armchair anarchists' who frequent these posts is not the topic but its it's the opportunity it gives to :
1. Show their 'Street Cred' ('Yeh I'm down with the latest protest')
2. Raise the profile of whatever end of the political spectrum they aspire to and if this includes getting your face on telly- brill! (better than auditioning for 'Big Brother'!)
3. To put forward whatever wild and unrealistic conspiracy theories that your imagination can conjure and not get laughed at, as would happen if you attempted to share them down your local pub.
Before the obligatory 'Troll' and 'Right Wing Lackey' epithets start getting slung my way (Strange how people who espose a lifestyle of tolerance and inclusion to ALL are so vehement when somone has the temerity not agree with their words) let me make one thing perfectly clear: I think this present Government stinks, there is just cause for effective protest on MANY issues, but the 'boy who cried wolf' analogy is never more apt when describing the 'EVERTHING is a Government/Big Business plot' lobby, from the War in Iraq (Where were all the protests about how Saddam was treating the Kurds?) down to the weather.
Another issue that never ceases to amaze me is the way these protests never seem to directly disrupt the actual targets of their disgruntlement ( Parliament and The City). No, that is too difficult. Lets harrass and inconveiniance your normal man/woman in the street, take away the police from policing to move us on, block the traffic and stop ordinary people getting to/from their work or home. YES - that is what will cause the Government to act.
If you want to change a flawed world, get an arguement that the MAJORITY agree with and target the people who can change it. A real democracy, as well as allowing the minority to be heard, must agree to what the MAJORITY wants. Just because YOU want it doesnt make it right!!.
Finally, Do you REALLY think that the British public take the British media as gospel truth?--
Yea too many conspiracy theories. There are even some who believe there is a world wide conspiracy that a group is intent on the overthrow of the West. They even believe it is led by one man, Ben Laden or something like that.
I've even seen the theory endlessly talked about and analysed by some nutters calling themselves experts in mad publications from the Sun to the Guardian.
When will these nutters stop their crazy theories?
I thought I would bring to your attention another example of the dusgusting tactics used in another 'tool of the media' that conclusively proves that the precious 'freedom of opinion' that we hold so dear is once again being drowned in a hail of abuse and harrasment. Allow me to furnish you details of this facist-like attempt at 'fact manipulation' :
>I always wonder which one of those goons passing themselves off as 'ordinary' people during Blair's 'election' campaignwill you get a job in one of the 're-education camps' and show us how to observe things correctly? Yes you fucking moron, they did that towards the end of the warTo post on this site such odious, trite, self-deluding bullshit shows all of us that you are either in total denial or that you are willfully ignoring the truthYou are either a complete fucking idiot or a nasty little apologist for Blair's unhidden fascist agenda.Please feel free to kill yourself at the first available opportunity.Spot the difference muppet. I guess with your head up your own arse your perspective is a bit limited.Are you one of the ´good Englishers´ that not only turns a blind eye, but attempts to lie about the facts on the ground that are staring us in the face ?
Dontcha just love reasoned and balanced political debate!
' but attempts to lie about the facts on the ground that are staring us in the face ?'
Interesting, I wonder if it is one of the following:
1. An appaling example of a mixed metaphor
2. A freudian slip alluding to the fact that the author was pissed up and lying in a gutter when he thought up this drivel
3. Conclusive proof that the so called 'resistance movement' actually has its head buried in the ground.
I think we need the truth.
On that bombshell, I will allow you to continue your torturous tautologiocal murder of the English language. By the way, would it hurt to spell check your words once in a while? Is grade 4 illiteracy a fundamental criteria for being an anarchist?
Blair and Bush must be shitting themselves when they see the intelectual heavyweights that they have to contend with.
Plain Joe does have a point. In balanced and reasonable political debate there is never any room for harrassment or insult. Why just look at our good old House of Commons, never has been any insulting behaviour or harrassment in there has there? Nope, just good clean unemotional logical debate between respecting and respectable elected members of 'the public'. I have almost never heard of any violence erupting within the corridors of the houses of parliament. Our elected political representatives have not been known to constantly insult each other, put each others opinions down forcefully, harrass each other into silence or even resort to furious physical violence causing injury in heated debates inside our chambers and backrooms of government. Have you?
I have certainly never heard of an OAP being forcibly removed from the auspiscious party political conference of his chosen political party by five heavy set, intolerant security personel purely for the 'crime' of shouting "nonsense" because that would represent an unbalanced act of harrassment within a political debate. Something our dear reader 'plain joe shmoe' would clearly be affronted by.
I applaud plain joe shmoe for his fantastic use of cut and paste in compiling all of the insulting and derisory sentences from the posts on this thread answering Observer, in an attempt to discredit and render null all of our arguments.
Well done plain joe, you are clearly a right honourable gentleman and not the annoying worthless cunt you appear to be at first glance.
However, as I myself am guilty of poor grammar and occasional non-sequiturs, I feel compelled to respond to our critical friend.
I was watching an in-depth documentary consisting mostly of world war one footage. I was delighted to see that the british soldiers involved used perfect grammar, spelling and punctuation when writing graffiti on the guns, shells etc. which they were surrounded by. However it is very interesting to note, my regal cyclops friend, that although they could no doubt express themselves in a perfectly literate manner and they had better grammatical ability than most of us today who need to use corrective software, that still didn't prevent them from being sent to their death in their thousands by the state and the ruling classes of the 'old world order'.
Did it?
Why, when these idiots who insist on referring to anyone with a dissenting opinion as an anarchist or a protester etc, are losing the argument so obviously do they change the focus of the debate to something petty like spelling or grammar or some other unrelated point.
So what is it about so called conspiracy theorists ? Who really runs the world ? Will anyone disagree that Banks and Multimational Corporations and the descendents of European Royalty have a pretty big slice of the action ? Despite the fact that there are huge protests against the G8 and almost none against Bilderberg are all you Conspiracy Theory haters denying that Bilderberg exist at all ?
That the foundations for the British Empire were laid out by Willem of Orange , it does seem to be widely accepted that capitalism took off shrotly after his victory over the catholics at the battle of the Boyne, no ?
That the IG Farben group were sponsored by Prescott Bush and went on to build concentration camps and produce the gas to kill millions of jewish people. Having invented pesticides during WW1 , Carl Duisberg supervised their use as chemical weapons on the british troops.. or is this more conspiracy nonsense ? Bayer patented herion around 1898 .
Bush senior a big buddy of Noriega who didn't ship enpugh cocaine for the CIA's liking and wanted to share in the proceeds and have a say on the pananma canal .. what happened to him and the The Panamanian Defence Force (PDF) Oliver North later shipped tons of Cocaine through nuetral costa rica (no army)
That Bush made his first millions with Arbusta Oil and family friend Bin Laden. That Bush is a member of the Skull and Bones a lodge that meets under Yale UNI which was founded and owned by the Russell foundation Mr Russell was a herion smuggler on a very large scale.
That the HSBC bank's logo is now a familar site on british high streets and that they made a few bob on the Opium War with China basically by flooding china with Opium.
That the Taleban almost eradicated the production of Opium in Afghanistan and that now the Northern Alliance and their American Allies have been producing all time record bumper crops and that the british are doing all they can to stop the flow with errr one sniffer dog in the whole country ..
seems like who controls the smack controls a lot more.. We could go on to talk about the Bank of Cocaine and Criminals Incorporated but all banks are pretty much much of a much. The Banca di San Gottardo is one to look out for regarding Silvio berlusconi and billions of relaundered mafia money.
Quoting from my Collins English dictionary
Theory
1) a system of rules, procedures and assumptions used to produce a result. 2) abstract knowledge or reasoning 3) a speculative or conjectural view or edge or reasoning. 4) an ideal or hypothetical situation (esp in the phrase theory) 5) a set of hypotheses related by logical or mathematical arguments to explain and predict a wide variety of connected phenomena in general terms 'the theory of relativity'. 6) a nontechnical name for hypothesis (sense 1) (C16: from late Latin theoria, from theorein to gaze upon)++
++(should be one or two greek letters in there but as I am in a coffee foreign language and all that)
But anyway surely calling them Conspiracy theorists is accepting that proof does exist and your obviously not too well up on history Conspiracy Hypothesis is probably more derogatory and nearer the mark
'Well done plain joe, you are clearly a right honourable gentleman and not the annoying worthless cunt you appear to be at first glance'.
I do apologise at my temerity in alluding that you might be unable to put forward anything other than a rational and thought provoking case for your point of view. I will of course bow to your superior grasp of semantics as witnessed at the start of this post.
The example of the World War 1 soldiers as being literate is a spell binding (excuse pun)example of...errrr sorry, Im not intellectual enough to spot the connection between the 'Lions led by Donkeys' analogy and your point.
Perhaps if we had people like yourself in those days, the misery and bloodshed would have been avoided. Or just perhaps you would just carry on with your inspired and intellectual 'Everyone who disagrees with me is a cunt' diatribe. Alas in those days they imprisoned people who spoke against the Establishment, I fear your commitment only extends to posting what Im sure you believe is pertinant and witty ripostes. I have spent time in prison for fighting social injustice..have you? (The Poll Tax)
Congratulations on the choice of Nickname by the way. A facist propagandist with no idea or input into what he actually says other than what others tell him to think or say is, I feel, an inspired choice. Bravo Sir.
"Yes you fucking moron, they did that towards the end of the war, what we are seeing now in Britatin and America is exactly like the Nazi's fascist state"
Yeah, except it's not exactly like the Nazi facist state, your hyper-exaggerated frantic bleating aside. Not even close. Get a grip.
Goodwin's law is never more true in an argument with indymedia nitwits. "You're Nazis! Facists! Blah blah blah!" Ugh.
Goodwin's law: (basically, calling some Hitler is not clever. Duh.)
Noddy - Talking crap in a chart format does not make it any more credable. I think you missed by point. I have read Orwell, but I don't think that cutting and pasting quotes from him as if he is a Prophet makes any sense. I don't have to apologise to you for my political beliefs, much the same as I'm sure you make no apology to me. Also by the just of your arguments we are all responsible for Adams sin. I think not.
Independent - Uppercase was the only non verbal way in which I can express my utter contemt for the nonsense that passes for news here. Seems to me that Muslims killing other Muslims is more of a problem in Iraq than any "bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes".
I know - I'm a Blair stooge, part of the New Reich etc etc....However some of the posts on here seem to be the web left wing version of Fox News. A lot of shouting, little sense - and if I may borrow a phrase "Please feel free to kill yourself at the first available opportunity."
"That the foundations for the British Empire were laid out by Willem of Orange , it does seem to be widely accepted that capitalism took off shrotly after his victory over the catholics at the battle of the Boyne, no ? "
Erm, no. You've made that up. The era of mass capital expansion and capitalism in the modern sense is the 19th century. It also shows a stunningly poor understanding of British politics around the time of William's assescion to the British Throne.
Sorry mate, try harder next time. Still, it was a good comedy piece.
Are you gonna take that job in the 're-education camp' or not?
However much they pick on grammar and spelling, no-one but no-one is disputing the substantive points - we are sliding into an instittional intolerance that means Wolfgang was justified in his response.
Seems to me that Muslims killing other Muslims is more of a problem in Iraq than any "bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes".
That is incorrect. According to a UN report published in 1995, sanctions in Iraq on top of the bombed out infrastructure killed some half-a-million Iraqi children from starvation and disease. Between 1995 and the time of the start of the war, it is reasonable to infer that at least another half-a-million Iraqi children died as a result of the UN policy led by the U.S. and the U.K..
According to scientific study by the British Lancet, some one hundred thousand Iraqis have been killed since the start of the recent war, mostly by coalition forces.
There is even evidence to suggest (e.g. the recent arrest of two British SAS soldiers disguised as Arabs and carrying bombs with remote detonaters) that at least some of the terror incidents are perpetrated by coalition agents.
Furthermore, the bombs that caused so much destruction on cities such as Fallujah add to the anarchy, despair, and anger that promotes inner-fighting among Iraqis.
If it seems to you that the "bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes" are less of a problem then I would request that you spend some time reflecting on that perception again because their is a great deal of evidence to indicate otherwise.
Bubble and squeek is another one here that [I believe] is right on the money.
Do a search on the internet ... put in names like kissenger, warberg, tyssen ... welf, hohenstauffen, guelphs, ghibellines ... put in terms like ... nye committee, silver shirts, BIS, odessa, project paperclip ...
...you will begin to uncover evidence of the complicity of huge corporations in europe & america during the reign of the nazis in germany ... corporations that have re-packaged and re-invented themselves many times ... FOLLOW THE $$$ ...
It was mussolini ... may he rot in hell ... that widely observed the definition of facism: 'state and corporate power combined'.
We surely have that now ... halliburton, BP, carlye etc ... and these are just the present incarnations of those age old trading blocks ...
Face it, WWII was fought and won, but not by any country. Many nazies escaped capture, censure, or even recognition. What do you think they are doing with all their $$$? ... living in happy retirement?
This is a huge subject, with mountains of evidence to sift through.
Instead of fussing and fighting for 'opinion dominance' all the time, lets use these forums more intelligently ... engage in the free flow of infomation and ideas ... we are all idiots here, no need to suppose otherwise ...
What Wolfgang did and went through was obviously well worth it, for provoking such lively relevant and needed discussion.
By the way, there was a little misprint or typo in this post, it was 1938 when he escaped Nazi Germany. By 1948, Nazi Germany was out of buisness.
I agree with the point of the post, though. To be a little more exact, Blair is playing Mussolini to Bush's Hitler. I realize that comparing Bush to Hitler isn't completely fair--Hitler was much more intelligent that Bush!
Noddy says: 4. Fact: George Orwell fought Islamic terrorists of General Franco Fact: Franco was a fascist, and a Catholic. Where were his "Islamic terrorists" please?
Noddy says: 9. Fact: The British empire fought Islamic terrorism for 200 years in India without abandoning civil liberties in the UK. Fact: The opposition to the British Empire in India came from both Hindus and Muslims. It was a nationalist resistance to an occupying colonial power, not "Islamic terrorism". For most of that 200 years, there was no concept of "civil liberties" for the UK to abandon. Also events in India were geographically a long way away, obviously, with no planes to speed the journey, or emails or phones to speed communication. To export "Islamic terrorism" from India to the UK would have been very difficult, thus making it unnecessary for extreme reaction from the UK authorities. The UK authorities were more concerned about "terrorism" from Europe, Russia and Ireland and internal dissent than that exported from India.
Noddy says: 10. Fact: No one is chucking you out of Indymedia for saying what you think, however crass, ill informed or ignorant you may be. Fact: Noddy is an idiot with no sense that s/he is also ill-informed and ignorant. Twat.
So jacks really is Lucido guelphs, ghibellines indeeds and didn't the guelphs win and then split into two groups the blacks and the whites and thenn the whites took over and there were two groups of whites and at some stage you get the left and the right . Well its yer actual commies since 1945 when the sign was turned round the Delinquenti di Sinistra since they were invented . But does it really make any difference what you call them as long as they are both controlled by the same power base ? and oof course they are. Meet the new boss (Bliar) same as the old boss (thatcher) or is he just perhaps a teeny bit more nazi than she was but the PR doesn't let on perhaps.
well my old adage on Willem van Orange didn't go down to well with some of the IMC faithfull. But let's see now the plague came through London and some stage in the 17th century and then the fire was supposed to have started in 1666 if the devil in me remembers correctly . I have a coin with Willem and mary on it which I can't be bothered to look for but if i remember rightly it's 1689 by which time the rebuilding of the city of london was well underway. freemasonry was just about coming into it's at around the same time and by the early part of the 18th century Christopher Wren and co were well on the way to rebuilding the centre of London which would very shortly become the economic hub that controlled the biggest empire ever . As the proddies were having a bit of a rough time before Willem sorted things at the Battle of the Boyne it would seem to be a very significant pint in history. even though the Pope probably had money on him as well so you could say he was sort of evens favourite to win.
Here's a short quote from an article on Operation gladio which I am very interested in, Licio Gelli was born in Pistoia which only a stones throw from Vinci where Dan Brown made his first billion !!
just in case any of you anti conspiracy troll hunters are interested i'll include the link ..
When on the morning of 17 June 1982, the body of Roberto Calvi was found hanging beneath London's Blackfriars bridge, it was to speed a process that prised open a series of events spanning four decades. The circumstances of Calvi's death led knowledgeable observers to darkly whisper of a Masonic ritual slaying. With his hands tied behind his back and a brick thrust into his coat pocket, Calvi had been strangled, apparently by the rope that had been noosed around his neck. Moreover, the location itself was believed to be symbolic. Blackfriars bridge sits astride the border that connects the Masonically named "Square Mile" of the City of London to the rest of the Capital city.
The initial inquest into his death returned a verdict of suicide. Appealing against what they believed to be prejudice on the part of the Coroner - and suspicious of the Masonic affiliations of the City police - Calvi's family called for a second, more thorough inquest, which belatedly returned an open verdict. Meanwhile, Banco Ambrosiano, Calvi's massive, privately-owned bank, collapsed on the news of his death, revealing a huge "black hole" in the balance sheet amounting to $1.3 billion. A large proportion of the missing money was later located in accounts owned by the Vatican bank. The connections that unfolded in the wake of the Calvi "affair" were to link Masons with Mafiosi, Monks with Murder and Spies with wanted Nazi war criminals.
This is viewable, but a similar article by David Cohen at http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/09/324573.html was hidden on the grounds that it is anti-semitic. It put Blair's face on Hitler, and used Raus Juden to accompany the eviction from Labour Conference. Perhaps it was too strong a statement for the for the milk and water squad.
It has so similar a message it could have been properly hidden as a duplicate. or vice versa.
Comments
Hide the following 32 comments
Peace to Wolfgang
29.09.2005 21:38
Mercurious Britannicus
Yeah Orwell- are we just characters in one of his stories ?
29.09.2005 23:36
On that note, if any of you New Reich sheep feel like some of your 'disruptive' trolling, please consider my request. When I notice one of your sad posts, I always wonder which one of those goons passing themselves off as 'ordinary' people during Blair's 'election' campaign is you. Why don't you post a picture from one of those many phoney arranged New Reich 'photo-ops' that were created around Blair, and circle whichever mock joe-public character you played. You work hard and deserve some recognition after all!
twilight
?????????????
29.09.2005 23:40
Merely quoting Orwell is not an argument, Orwell never lived lived in a society where woman are afraid to walk the streets, pensioners are mugged, Islamist terrorists murder innocent civilians, and animal activists value the life of animals more than people. He wrote challanging and though provoking political fiction, however cutting and pasting an Orwell quote is just lazy
Now I know as well as you that its all a big Mossad black op, my sources tell me that security at the Labour party conference is being run by, inter alia, Mossad, CIA, MI6, Esso and sponsored by the "Penguin Big Book of Conspiracy theories".
Observer
Perspective
30.09.2005 07:13
Instead you're pushing the agenda that Judaism is a race, when quite clearly it was Askenazim who were under systematic attack - the majority of theSephardim were not at risk from the concentration in Europe.
"Orwell never lived lived in a society where woman are afraid to walk the streets"
Well, that is patently bollocks
" pensioners are mugged"
It would be surprising in people of pensionable age were never robbed in Orwell's time
"Islamist terrorists murder innocent civilians"
So do neo-cons and zionists and nu-labourites -
"animal activists value the life of animals more than people"
Aah - so your "sense of perspective" is dictated to you by the tabloid press?
And whilst Tony Blair has his tongue firmly entrenched up Ariel's bottom, he is quite capable of instilling his own brand of fascism - thank you very much.
As Wolfgang can now tell you from experience.
When they close down Indymedia, how will you impose your own zionist tabloid fuelled 'observations' on us - will you get a job in one of the 're-education camps' and show us how to observe things correctly?
Like sheep to the slaughter
How long? How much?
30.09.2005 07:15
Your point?
If you cannot see the writing on the wall, then it is no suprise that people like you only pop up in this place to poo poo other peoples writing.
How much DU must we drop on Iraq before the similarities become apparent to you?
How many East Timorise?
etc etc bloody etc ...
Blair is out of control, deaf to criticism and murdering freely out in the other world ... maybe even here in old blighty too, if some of the speculation about the pecularities of 7/7 are to be believed.
... and that is what it comes down to, belief.
You don't believe it is as bad as nazi germany here, fair point. Will you act only then?
Probably a bit late by then innit?
Twilight ... you are a star. I love a bit of poetry with me politics ... you seem to be on the money ... as they say ... if only evidenced by the howls and insults directed at you by the usual dreary band of 'finger in ear' 'can't happen hear' 'queens shilling takers'.
Keep it up mate.
jackslucid
e-mail:
jackslucid@hotmail.com
Where are you observing from? the land of willfull ignorance?
30.09.2005 09:36
"Have you all lost all sense of perspective! FACT - Nazi Germany systematically and deliberately killed millions of men, women and children, almost anhilating a race. As far as I am aware kicking one old fella out of a conference in no way a moral equivalence."
Yes you fucking moron, they did that towards the end of the war, what we are seeing now in Britatin and America is exactly like the Nazi's fascist state developed after Hitler was made chancellor, created phony Communist terrorist attacks and suspended civil liberties, only a lot more fucking scary because the databasing and propaganda technology have advanced so far.
Do you even know the history of the third reich or did you just catch 15 mins of Nazis, Hitler and the Uber-Men on the Discovery channel. What we are living through now is the equivalent of Germany 1936-1938, tension, mistrust, paranoia, propaganda, scapegoating, arrogant misuse of state power etc. before the war even started.
That one man the security 'hired goons' decided to manhandle out of the building was the one voice at the Labour Party conference to speak out while Jack Straw stood in front of what is supposed to be his own party and told blatant lie after lie after big fat obvious lie about Iraq. Then that one elderly, octogenarian man who spoke out was detained under the new 'prevention of terrorism' laws, once again clearly showing such laws as having nothing to do with the prevention of terrorism and everything to do with the prevention of dissent and the complete destruction of our freedom by the slow steady expansion of a police state.
I say it is you, Observer, who has lost all sense of perspectve, historical perspective, moral perspective and your entire perpective of reality. To post on this site such odious, trite, self-deluding bullshit shows all of us that you are either in total denial or that you are willfully ignoring the truth. You have the cheek to argue about 'moral equivolence' when you clearly have no morals yourself. You are either a complete fucking idiot or a nasty little apologist for Blair's unhidden fascist agenda.
Please feel free to kill yourself at the first available opportunity.
Lord Haw Haw
10 points Observer
30.09.2005 10:13
2. Fact: Britain is an ally of Russia a country who until recently was practicing genocide in Chechnya.
3. Fact: Britain supports US Guntanamo concentration camp by providing interrogators and using intelligence gained by torture, something banned in Britain since the 17th century.
4. Fact: George Orwell fought Islamic terrorists of General Franco and Bolshevicks of Joe Stalin who demanded discipline and authoritarian solutions, read Homage to Catalonia.
5. Fact: Read Down and Out in Paris and London for what George really saw and it was a lot worse than what happens on the streets now, but he did not advocate fascism as a solution.
6. Fact: Fascism does not start with gas chambers it ends in them
7. Fact: Twilight is an idiot of the Rick from the Young Ones style politics, Observer what is your excuse New Labour stooge or apologist for tyranny?
9. Fact: The British empire fought Islamic terrorism for 200 years in India without abandoning civil liberties in the UK.
10. Fact: No one is chucking you out of Indymedia for saying what you think, however crass, ill informed or ignorant you may be. But one word from an old man is enough to be detained under the terrorism act. Spot the difference muppet. I guess with your head up your own arse your perspective is a bit limited.
Noddy
Observer, are you blind ?
30.09.2005 10:16
FACT! (as if stating it in uppercase makes it appear plausible, LOL)
The New Labour Party has been a willing accomplice in the murder of countless men, women and children in occupied Iraq via bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes. This is a fact that needs no capitisation to make it stand up.
The comparison to NAZI Germany is solid. Are you one of the ´good Englishers´ that not only turns a blind eye, but attempts to lie about the facts on the ground that are staring us in the face ?
Independent
NAZI GERMANY AND NAZI BRITAIN
30.09.2005 10:54
THESE ARE SICK SICK TIMES
Observer....Missing the Point
30.09.2005 11:17
Reference your lucid and logical points. However dear chap, Im afraid you are missing the whole point of these so called independant forums. You see, it is never the actual topic that attracts interest from these 'Defenders of Liberty'.
You will soon see that prolonged support for an issue has a 'Flavour of the Month' longevity: Brian Haw, the unfortunate chap who was shot by the Met and the old geezer who was ousted by over zealous stewards ( an obvious direct order from the Front Bench) will be a long forgotten memory when a new 'outrage' appears on the horizon. The main raison d' etre of the 'armchair anarchists' who frequent these posts is not the topic but its it's the opportunity it gives to :
1. Show their 'Street Cred' ('Yeh I'm down with the latest protest')
2. Raise the profile of whatever end of the political spectrum they aspire to and if this includes getting your face on telly- brill! (better than auditioning for 'Big Brother'!)
3. To put forward whatever wild and unrealistic conspiracy theories that your imagination can conjure and not get laughed at, as would happen if you attempted to share them down your local pub.
Before the obligatory 'Troll' and 'Right Wing Lackey' epithets start getting slung my way (Strange how people who espose a lifestyle of tolerance and inclusion to ALL are so vehement when somone has the temerity not agree with their words) let me make one thing perfectly clear: I think this present Government stinks, there is just cause for effective protest on MANY issues, but the 'boy who cried wolf' analogy is never more apt when describing the 'EVERTHING is a Government/Big Business plot' lobby, from the War in Iraq (Where were all the protests about how Saddam was treating the Kurds?) down to the weather.
Another issue that never ceases to amaze me is the way these protests never seem to directly disrupt the actual targets of their disgruntlement ( Parliament and The City). No, that is too difficult. Lets harrass and inconveiniance your normal man/woman in the street, take away the police from policing to move us on, block the traffic and stop ordinary people getting to/from their work or home. YES - that is what will cause the Government to act.
If you want to change a flawed world, get an arguement that the MAJORITY agree with and target the people who can change it. A real democracy, as well as allowing the minority to be heard, must agree to what the MAJORITY wants. Just because YOU want it doesnt make it right!!.
Finally, Do you REALLY think that the British public take the British media as gospel truth?--
You insult the intelligence of a whole nation.
Joe
Plain Joe Schmoe
Conspiracy Theories
30.09.2005 11:32
I've even seen the theory endlessly talked about and analysed by some nutters calling themselves experts in mad publications from the Sun to the Guardian.
When will these nutters stop their crazy theories?
Karl Jones
'Freedom of Speech Outrage'
30.09.2005 12:01
I thought I would bring to your attention another example of the dusgusting tactics used in another 'tool of the media' that conclusively proves that the precious 'freedom of opinion' that we hold so dear is once again being drowned in a hail of abuse and harrasment. Allow me to furnish you details of this facist-like attempt at 'fact manipulation' :
>I always wonder which one of those goons passing themselves off as 'ordinary' people during Blair's 'election' campaignwill you get a job in one of the 're-education camps' and show us how to observe things correctly? Yes you fucking moron, they did that towards the end of the warTo post on this site such odious, trite, self-deluding bullshit shows all of us that you are either in total denial or that you are willfully ignoring the truthYou are either a complete fucking idiot or a nasty little apologist for Blair's unhidden fascist agenda.Please feel free to kill yourself at the first available opportunity.Spot the difference muppet. I guess with your head up your own arse your perspective is a bit limited.Are you one of the ´good Englishers´ that not only turns a blind eye, but attempts to lie about the facts on the ground that are staring us in the face ?
Dontcha just love reasoned and balanced political debate!
Joe
Plain Joe Schmoe
The Kingdom of the Blind
30.09.2005 13:14
Interesting, I wonder if it is one of the following:
1. An appaling example of a mixed metaphor
2. A freudian slip alluding to the fact that the author was pissed up and lying in a gutter when he thought up this drivel
3. Conclusive proof that the so called 'resistance movement' actually has its head buried in the ground.
I think we need the truth.
On that bombshell, I will allow you to continue your torturous tautologiocal murder of the English language. By the way, would it hurt to spell check your words once in a while? Is grade 4 illiteracy a fundamental criteria for being an anarchist?
Blair and Bush must be shitting themselves when they see the intelectual heavyweights that they have to contend with.
The One-Eyed King
Plain Joe
30.09.2005 13:28
I have certainly never heard of an OAP being forcibly removed from the auspiscious party political conference of his chosen political party by five heavy set, intolerant security personel purely for the 'crime' of shouting "nonsense" because that would represent an unbalanced act of harrassment within a political debate. Something our dear reader 'plain joe shmoe' would clearly be affronted by.
I applaud plain joe shmoe for his fantastic use of cut and paste in compiling all of the insulting and derisory sentences from the posts on this thread answering Observer, in an attempt to discredit and render null all of our arguments.
Well done plain joe, you are clearly a right honourable gentleman and not the annoying worthless cunt you appear to be at first glance.
Hear Hear!
Lord Haw Haw
In the Kingdom of the blind the one eyed man hath no depth perception.
30.09.2005 16:14
However, as I myself am guilty of poor grammar and occasional non-sequiturs, I feel compelled to respond to our critical friend.
I was watching an in-depth documentary consisting mostly of world war one footage. I was delighted to see that the british soldiers involved used perfect grammar, spelling and punctuation when writing graffiti on the guns, shells etc. which they were surrounded by. However it is very interesting to note, my regal cyclops friend, that although they could no doubt express themselves in a perfectly literate manner and they had better grammatical ability than most of us today who need to use corrective software, that still didn't prevent them from being sent to their death in their thousands by the state and the ruling classes of the 'old world order'.
Did it?
Why, when these idiots who insist on referring to anyone with a dissenting opinion as an anarchist or a protester etc, are losing the argument so obviously do they change the focus of the debate to something petty like spelling or grammar or some other unrelated point.
Does anyone else think they are just poor losers?
"well, at least I can spell"
Yes, yes, we all did that at school as well.
Lord Haw Haw
Conspiracy Hypothesis
30.09.2005 17:59
Will anyone disagree that Banks and Multimational Corporations and the descendents of European Royalty have a pretty big slice of the action ?
Despite the fact that there are huge protests against the G8 and almost none against Bilderberg are all you Conspiracy Theory haters denying that Bilderberg exist at all ?
That the foundations for the British Empire were laid out by Willem of Orange , it does seem to be widely accepted that capitalism took off shrotly after his victory over the catholics at the battle of the Boyne, no ?
That the IG Farben group were sponsored by Prescott Bush and went on to build concentration camps and produce the gas to kill millions of jewish people. Having invented pesticides during WW1 , Carl Duisberg supervised their use as chemical weapons on the british troops.. or is this more conspiracy nonsense ?
Bayer patented herion around 1898 .
Bush senior a big buddy of Noriega who didn't ship enpugh cocaine for the CIA's liking and wanted to share in the proceeds and have a say on the pananma canal .. what happened to him and the The Panamanian Defence Force (PDF) Oliver North later shipped tons of Cocaine through nuetral costa rica (no army)
That Bush made his first millions with Arbusta Oil and family friend Bin Laden.
That Bush is a member of the Skull and Bones a lodge that meets under Yale UNI which was founded and owned by the Russell foundation Mr Russell was a herion smuggler on a very large scale.
That the HSBC bank's logo is now a familar site on british high streets and that they made a few bob on the Opium War with China basically by flooding china with Opium.
That the Taleban almost eradicated the production of Opium in Afghanistan and that now the Northern Alliance and their American Allies have been producing all time record bumper crops and that the british are doing all they can to stop the flow with errr one sniffer dog in the whole country ..
seems like who controls the smack controls a lot more..
We could go on to talk about the Bank of Cocaine and Criminals Incorporated but all banks are pretty much much of a much. The Banca di San Gottardo is one to look out for regarding Silvio berlusconi and billions of relaundered mafia money.
Quoting from my Collins English dictionary
Theory
1) a system of rules, procedures and assumptions used to produce a result.
2) abstract knowledge or reasoning
3) a speculative or conjectural view or edge or reasoning.
4) an ideal or hypothetical situation (esp in the phrase theory)
5) a set of hypotheses related by logical or mathematical arguments to explain and predict
a wide variety of connected phenomena in general terms 'the theory of relativity'.
6) a nontechnical name for hypothesis (sense 1) (C16: from late Latin theoria, from theorein to gaze upon)++
++(should be one or two greek letters in there but as I am in a coffee foreign language and all that)
But anyway surely calling them Conspiracy theorists is accepting that proof does exist and your obviously
not too well up on history Conspiracy Hypothesis is probably more derogatory and nearer the mark
Bubble and Squeak
Is that the best you can do, One Eyed whatever it was?
30.09.2005 18:06
Unable to counter my argument, you resort to quibbling about metaphors and slip in a bit of faux-Freud?
Pathetic! One-nil!
Independent
Lord Haw Haw
30.09.2005 18:11
I do apologise at my temerity in alluding that you might be unable to put forward anything other than a rational and thought provoking case for your point of view. I will of course bow to your superior grasp of semantics as witnessed at the start of this post.
The example of the World War 1 soldiers as being literate is a spell binding (excuse pun)example of...errrr sorry, Im not intellectual enough to spot the connection between the 'Lions led by Donkeys' analogy and your point.
Perhaps if we had people like yourself in those days, the misery and bloodshed would have been avoided. Or just perhaps you would just carry on with your inspired and intellectual 'Everyone who disagrees with me is a cunt' diatribe. Alas in those days they imprisoned people who spoke against the Establishment, I fear your commitment only extends to posting what Im sure you believe is pertinant and witty ripostes. I have spent time in prison for fighting social injustice..have you? (The Poll Tax)
Congratulations on the choice of Nickname by the way. A facist propagandist with no idea or input into what he actually says other than what others tell him to think or say is, I feel, an inspired choice. Bravo Sir.
One Eyed King (AKA Joe Schmoe)
One Eyed King
Oh, please
30.09.2005 19:20
Yeah, except it's not exactly like the Nazi facist state, your hyper-exaggerated frantic bleating aside. Not even close. Get a grip.
Goodwin's law is never more true in an argument with indymedia nitwits. "You're Nazis! Facists! Blah blah blah!" Ugh.
Goodwin's law: (basically, calling some Hitler is not clever. Duh.)
chris
chris
Just as I expected
30.09.2005 21:30
Independent - Uppercase was the only non verbal way in which I can express my utter contemt for the nonsense that passes for news here. Seems to me that Muslims killing other Muslims is more of a problem in Iraq than any "bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes".
I know - I'm a Blair stooge, part of the New Reich etc etc....However some of the posts on here seem to be the web left wing version of Fox News. A lot of shouting, little sense - and if I may borrow a phrase "Please feel free to kill yourself at the first available opportunity."
Observer
Erm, Um
30.09.2005 21:49
Erm, no. You've made that up. The era of mass capital expansion and capitalism in the modern sense is the 19th century. It also shows a stunningly poor understanding of British politics around the time of William's assescion to the British Throne.
Sorry mate, try harder next time. Still, it was a good comedy piece.
Paranoid Pete
So, Observer
30.09.2005 23:41
However much they pick on grammar and spelling, no-one but no-one is disputing the substantive points - we are sliding into an instittional intolerance that means Wolfgang was justified in his response.
Like sheep to the slaughter
Which is more of a problem?
01.10.2005 06:36
Seems to me that Muslims killing other Muslims is more of a problem in Iraq than any "bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes".
That is incorrect. According to a UN report published in 1995, sanctions in Iraq on top of the bombed out infrastructure killed some half-a-million Iraqi children from starvation and disease. Between 1995 and the time of the start of the war, it is reasonable to infer that at least another half-a-million Iraqi children died as a result of the UN policy led by the U.S. and the U.K..
According to scientific study by the British Lancet, some one hundred thousand Iraqis have been killed since the start of the recent war, mostly by coalition forces.
There is even evidence to suggest (e.g. the recent arrest of two British SAS soldiers disguised as Arabs and carrying bombs with remote detonaters) that at least some of the terror incidents are perpetrated by coalition agents.
Furthermore, the bombs that caused so much destruction on cities such as Fallujah add to the anarchy, despair, and anger that promotes inner-fighting among Iraqis.
If it seems to you that the "bombs, bullets, depleted uranium, sanctions and airstrikes" are less of a problem then I would request that you spend some time reflecting on that perception again because their is a great deal of evidence to indicate otherwise.
Iranian-Shi'ite
Iranian-Shi'ite
different topics
01.10.2005 06:48
That is true, but the original comment was referring to the beginnings of capitalism, not capitalism in "the modern sense."
Iranian-Shi'ite
Iranian-Shi'ite
Well do something about it and stop whining!
01.10.2005 09:54
Boab
No, paranoid pete
01.10.2005 10:41
Do a search on the internet ... put in names like kissenger, warberg, tyssen ... welf, hohenstauffen, guelphs, ghibellines ... put in terms like ... nye committee, silver shirts, BIS, odessa, project paperclip ...
...you will begin to uncover evidence of the complicity of huge corporations in europe & america during the reign of the nazis in germany ... corporations that have re-packaged and re-invented themselves many times ... FOLLOW THE $$$ ...
It was mussolini ... may he rot in hell ... that widely observed the definition of facism: 'state and corporate power combined'.
We surely have that now ... halliburton, BP, carlye etc ... and these are just the present incarnations of those age old trading blocks ...
Face it, WWII was fought and won, but not by any country. Many nazies escaped capture, censure, or even recognition. What do you think they are doing with all their $$$? ... living in happy retirement?
This is a huge subject, with mountains of evidence to sift through.
Instead of fussing and fighting for 'opinion dominance' all the time, lets use these forums more intelligently ... engage in the free flow of infomation and ideas ... we are all idiots here, no need to suppose otherwise ...
a few random links w/ good info:
Please Bubble and squeek, gis us some links!!!
jackslucid
e-mail:
jackslucid@hotmail.com
... and just in case ...
01.10.2005 10:49
... a picture is worth a thousand words ...
jackslucid
e-mail:
jackslucid@hotmail.com
Wolfgang Rocks! Great discussion!
02.10.2005 16:02
By the way, there was a little misprint or typo in this post, it was 1938 when he escaped Nazi Germany. By 1948, Nazi Germany was out of buisness.
I agree with the point of the post, though. To be a little more exact, Blair is playing Mussolini to Bush's Hitler. I realize that comparing Bush to Hitler isn't completely fair--Hitler was much more intelligent that Bush!
A friend accross the waters
To Noddy
02.10.2005 19:23
4. Fact: George Orwell fought Islamic terrorists of General Franco
Fact:
Franco was a fascist, and a Catholic. Where were his "Islamic terrorists" please?
Noddy says:
9. Fact: The British empire fought Islamic terrorism for 200 years in India without abandoning civil liberties in the UK.
Fact:
The opposition to the British Empire in India came from both Hindus and Muslims. It was a nationalist resistance to an occupying colonial power, not "Islamic terrorism". For most of that 200 years, there was no concept of "civil liberties" for the UK to abandon. Also events in India were geographically a long way away, obviously, with no planes to speed the journey, or emails or phones to speed communication. To export "Islamic terrorism" from India to the UK would have been very difficult, thus making it unnecessary for extreme reaction from the UK authorities. The UK authorities were more concerned about "terrorism" from Europe, Russia and Ireland and internal dissent than that exported from India.
Noddy says:
10. Fact: No one is chucking you out of Indymedia for saying what you think, however crass, ill informed or ignorant you may be.
Fact:
Noddy is an idiot with no sense that s/he is also ill-informed and ignorant. Twat.
Big Ears
@ Iranian Shi'ite
02.10.2005 22:11
weegee
weegee
Square Mile and a couple of florins
02.10.2005 22:27
But does it really make any difference what you call them as long as they are both controlled by the same power base ? and oof course they are. Meet the new boss (Bliar) same as the old boss (thatcher) or is he just perhaps a teeny bit more nazi than she was but the PR doesn't let on perhaps.
well my old adage on Willem van Orange didn't go down to well with some of the IMC faithfull.
But let's see now the plague came through London and some stage in the 17th century and then the fire was supposed to have started in 1666 if the devil in me remembers correctly .
I have a coin with Willem and mary on it which I can't be bothered to look for but if i remember rightly it's 1689
by which time the rebuilding of the city of london was well underway.
freemasonry was just about coming into it's at around the same time and by the early part of the 18th century Christopher Wren and co were well on the way to rebuilding the centre of London which would very shortly become the economic hub that controlled the biggest empire ever .
As the proddies were having a bit of a rough time before Willem sorted things at the Battle of the Boyne it would seem to be a very significant pint in history. even though the Pope probably had money on him as well
so you could say he was sort of evens favourite to win.
Here's a short quote from an article on Operation gladio which I am very interested in, Licio Gelli was born in Pistoia which only a stones throw from Vinci where Dan Brown made his first billion !!
just in case any of you anti conspiracy troll hunters are interested i'll include the link ..
When on the morning of 17 June 1982, the body of Roberto Calvi was found hanging beneath London's Blackfriars bridge, it was to speed a process that prised open a series of events spanning four decades. The circumstances of Calvi's death led knowledgeable observers to darkly whisper of a Masonic ritual slaying. With his hands tied behind his back and a brick thrust into his coat pocket, Calvi had been strangled, apparently by the rope that had been noosed around his neck. Moreover, the location itself was believed to be symbolic. Blackfriars bridge sits astride the border that connects the Masonically named "Square Mile" of the City of London to the rest of the Capital city.
The initial inquest into his death returned a verdict of suicide. Appealing against what they believed to be prejudice on the part of the Coroner - and suspicious of the Masonic affiliations of the City police - Calvi's family called for a second, more thorough inquest, which belatedly returned an open verdict. Meanwhile, Banco Ambrosiano, Calvi's massive, privately-owned bank, collapsed on the news of his death, revealing a huge "black hole" in the balance sheet amounting to $1.3 billion. A large proportion of the missing money was later located in accounts owned by the Vatican bank. The connections that unfolded in the wake of the Calvi "affair" were to link Masons with Mafiosi, Monks with Murder and Spies with wanted Nazi war criminals.
dubble bubble and squeak
It puzzles me
03.10.2005 10:38
It has so similar a message it could have been properly hidden as a duplicate. or vice versa.
Ilyan