Well done Israeli activists!
Now on to the next target!
Victory for the animals!!!!!

WELL DONE to everyone in Israel, wow. Fantastic news.
Keep it up!!

Damn, now I'll have to move to Gaza with my fur coat.

Where does the israeli animal rights movement stand on the occupation? Fur coats seem like a peculiar priority right now.

Where does the uk animal rights movement stand on the occupation? Fur coats seem like a peculiar priority right now.

A lot of the anti-fur activists are against the occupation, and do in fact actively oppose it through collectives like "Anarchists against Walls". While doing some ISM activism I met quite a few of these people and they are engaged in everything that a lot of anarchists. activists and socialists do in Europe. However, I cannot vouch for ALL anti-fur activists.

I think we should hear from THEM and not second-third hand wishful thinkers. Besides, there is a VERY big difference from saying a person is for A, B, and C and suggesting that they would (or should) attempt to LINK their actions.

Might I humbly suggest that had the activists outside Castros waved banners indicating "not only are we against killing animals for fur but we are against the existence of Israel" they would have received a VERY different response from the passers by and their action would have been totally ineffective.

I know this is difficult for you to understand, but the "opposition" within Israel to the oppression of the Palestinians is VERY divided and you cannot understand "left" vs "right" in Israel in terms of economic issues > There is also a very wide range within those who object to the occupation but by and large you are not going to find many with attitudes like your own -- not many whose "solution" is obtain peace by ending the existence of Israel.

Were it not for the maxim "never attribute to malice which can be explained by human stupidity." I could even suspect that this "altered" article was posted by "pro-fur" Israelis. You know, get you people posting comments like this they can pull off and have printed up poster size to be displayed by the next fur selling store that the anti-fur Israelis demonstrate against -- would result in the rapid removal of the demonstrators >

But I don't think anything so sinister is at work, justr a case of "with friends like you, the Israeli animal acitivists don't need enemies".

Hey,
I'm the Israeli who put that anti-fur post here, and I wanted to see if anybody had, y'know, questions or comments or anything.
To the person who asked where does the Israeli Animal Rights movement stand on the occupation, I can only answer with yet another question: Where does the Palestinian Rights movement stand on the Animal Rights question? Silly question, innit?
Why should the AR movement have a clear opinion regarding anything other than AR? Or even, how COULD it have one solid opinion on anyting else, when the AR "movement" is in fact composed of many different people with as many different views?
I seem to be able to pick up some sort of, hmmm, condescending view regarding AR on your part, as if we were dealing with "less important stuff", and should be made to voice opinions about the "real" issues.
Sorry.
As for my personal view, and the view of the group I am part of, I thought I made it quite clear when I wrote "Israel is an apartheid state" and "Down with Zionism" in my original post. The fact that I included such out of context sentences in a post dealing with the fur industry should give you a clue as to how deep I sense the connection between human and animal rights to be. Apparently, you either did not read the whole thing before posting your question, or it somehow was not as clear a message as I had hoped (if I could write in Hebrew it would be clearer, methinks). Either way, in case it really does interest you: the majority of AR Activists in Israel are left wing - although Zionist left wing, which means their views regarding the occupation could be described as, um, a naive, well-intentioned but grossly misinformed belief in Israel's "Peace" plans and proposals. You have bleeding heart liberals in the UK too, don'tcha?
Having said that, the radical (re: Anarchist) elements in the Israeli AR movement are very big and influencial, proportionately - much more than anywhere else I've ever been to.
As to the second part of your comment, where you stated that "fur coats seem like a peculiar priority right now", I gotta ask:
Why?
The Occupation has killed thousands, injured tens of thousands and destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands - and that's by generate estimates.
The Fur industry kills between 30 and 40 MILLION EVERY YEAR.
Clearly, in terms of number of deaths, this does not seem a "peculiar priority" at all.
Heck, even if you were to calculate according to the amount of suffering inflicted on the victims, and not just the body count (pretending one could indeed calculate such a thing as suffering) - the fur industry's methods or confinement, trapping and killing are far worse, especially fur farms, which make up 85 percent of the entire industry.
So, errr, again, this does not seem as a peculiar priority at all...
...Oh, wait, I think I got it! You meant that the fur industry kills sentient beings from different species, while the military occupation deals (almost exclusively) with Homo Sapiens, right? Yeah, that's gotta be it. the fight against the fur industry revolves around the wellbeing and lives of, um - how shall I put it - "lesser" beings, and Military conflicts deal with the center of the universe and all creation: Human Beings. Even the Holy Bible says so, right?
So, hmmm, where was I? Oh, yes: in conclusion, if you consider humans to be above all other species, human lives to value more than other lives and human suffering to be more important than the suffering of any other living creature - then yes; talking about foxes and rabbits and minx, or cows, fish and chickens, is indeed a "peculiar priority". In fact, from such a perspective, dealing with animal suffering will always and forever, for all eternity, be a "peculiar priority" - anytime, anywhere, anyhow. There will ALWAYS be human victims and human suffering.
The problem, of course, is that the AR movement does not share this point of view you seem to be implying between your lines. And I clearly wrote that post from an AR perspective. So the answer is no, this does not seem like a peculiar priority right now. Not in my eyes, at least.
When I refused to join the compulsory Israeli military service, when I refused to salute the flag, to sign the national anthem, when I rejected Nationalism, Fascism, Racism, Heterosexism and a helluva lot more "ism"s, I also rejected a little something called Speciesism.
look it up.

Thanks for the comments, and have a kickass day.
Doctor Zoidberg

I'd like to know what the single-issue anti-occupation campaigners think of the situation in Northern Ireland.

Hey, sorry to be a pain, but I just saw Mike’s comment (“A lot of the Israeli anti-fur activists are anti-Zionist?”) AFTER I posted my comment, so here’s another one regarding what he wrote. It’s not that I don’t have a life (well… maybe…), it’s just that I AM interested in exchanging ideas.

Mike, you raise a good point, which is also somewhat of an exposed nerve’s end as far as us Israeli Anarchists are concerned. But first of all, I think you embarrassed yourself by assuming – for G-d knows what reason – that my post was some sort of “altered” article. I’m not some journo from Brighton, I live here, in Yaffo (an Arab city with a joint municipality with Tel Aviv), in the Middle East. I took part in the protests outside Castro. The signs you see in the picture are in the other room as I type this, just like it was when I typed the original post, a.k.a “altered article”. And your final comment about Israeli AR activists not needing enemies when they have me is just presumptuous nonsense that is completely out of place. Talk of “human stupidity”… You obviously don’t know enough about either me or the Israeli AR movement to be assuming that much. Please be more careful…
Anyway, moving on:
The question of whether we should link different struggles & issues, and if so when and how, is very tricky indeed. Obviously, in the case of a public-oriented campaign against the fur industry, it would be a bad move to voice anti-patriotic sentiments. And obviously, it was not done. On the other hand, making such a linkage here, personally & anonymously, on the IMC site of a different country and continent, is a completely different thing, for reasons that are simply practical. If furriers wanted to go in that direction and try to discredit us by exposing our views regarding Zionism, they would not need to go as far as a posting on the AR Section of UK’s IMC site, believe me. All the Yassam police officers and all media reporters recognize our faces, and it would be a piece of (vegan) cake for anyone to prove that some of these kids in front of the Castro stores can also be seen in closed military zones, demonstrating with the villagers of Bil’in or Budrus against the Apartheid wall.
However, as I already said, the majority of the AR movement in Israel is NOT anti-Zionist, so that type of smear-tactic would not really work. Besides, regardless of whatever move furriers choose– what would you yourself suggest we do in order to avoid this pitfall? I think it is a sort of delicate balance that has to be kept and watched constantly, but it is not something that can really be “solved” per-se. Would you suggest, for example, that I somehow change my political views regarding Zionism, so as to rob animal abusers of the ability to make any damaging linkages? That’s ridiculous. I could stop being active in other struggles, of course, for the sake of the animals. As a matter of fact, I happen to know people here in Israel that have made that exact choice. They won’t even associate themselves with a Gay Pride Parade, for example, so as to not alienate the Religious public to their AR message. I understand their hearts’ motivation, even though I disagree with that specific course of action.
The point is that you have people who are anti-Zionist and pro-AR, and of course that’s gonna be problematic (especially in Israel, duh), but this can’t be dogmatically solved, by adhering to some etiquette or some rules of conduct or whatever. It is, as I’ve said, a delicate balance: when I go to AR events, I will not be wearing my “The IDF is a Terrorist Organization” T-shirt, if you know what I mean. I am not a single-issue kind of person, but I agree with you that some connections, in certain contexts, do more harm than good. In the context of UK’s IMC site, I thought I could indulge in it. You seem to feel it is a mistake – to such an extent that it makes me, not only stupid but also an “enemy” of Israel’s AR movement – and hey, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I think it is wrong and not well grounded.
This issue of problematic connections between struggles is, of course, not unique to the handful of Israeli anti-Zionist AR activists. The current International “Troops Out” movement has quite a few sectors that work overtime – or SHOULD work overtime – to conceal certain agendas.
Is this wrong?
Is not telling the whole truth lying?
There are no crystal clear answers to these questions, I think. The only way to avoid being a hypocrite is to do nothing and stay indoors, watching American sitcoms. Anyone who cares about the world and wants to engage in serious activism will face forks like these in her/his road, and will have to choose not between right and wrong, but between wrong and less wrong. I’m sorry, that’s my experience. Life’s no picnic, as we say in Hebrew (then again, it’s not as dramatic as it sounds).
We are not struggling to be as righteous as possible, we are not puritans. We want to create a better world, and sad as it may be, the situation today is that the road to a better future might sometimes pass through actions which may not be to our liking.

As a final note, you (Mike) seem to view anti-Zionism in a less than favourable light, am I correct? It has nothing to do with AR so I shouldn’t be dwelling on this here, but anti-Zionism is many things to many people, much like “Anarchist”, “Religious” or what-have-you. I’ve met Palestinians and others whose anti-Zionism was frighteningly literal, and they wanted all Jewish citizens to “go home”, back to Poland and Morocco. I don’t see it that way. I want the state of Israel to cease to exist as a Zionist state, yes; but all the millions born here are entitled to stay here, this is their home. Sure, Israel was created by theft of land and injustice, but it’s hard to name one country in the whole wide world that hasn’t? All countries are artificial, not just Israel; that’s (partly) what leads me to be an Anarchist. Anti-Zionism is about democracy and equality: a country in which a third of the population is not Jewish cannot be, at the same time, a “Jewish State” and a true democracy – even in the shallow, parliamentary sense of the word. There is no equality in the eyes of the law when you have roads for Jews only, jobs for Jews only, grants and areas and laws and etcetera for Jews only.
I, uh, I really don’t want to get too deep into this, because it is very complicated. But I don’t want you to get the impression that to wish for the end of the existence of the state of Israel is somehow a violent or unjust wish. People here in the Middle East, even here in Israel, Can coexist. No one has to vanish, leave, be exiled or hidden under curfews and behind separation walls. But there is no true coexistence between first and second class citizens, and that’s what Zionism creates, and what anti-Zionism wishes to change. The green line is a start.

Sorry it’s so lengthy,
Doctor Zoidberg =)

"On the other hand, making such a linkage here, personally & anonymously, on the IMC site of a different country and continent, is a completely different thing, for reasons that are simply practical. If furriers wanted to go in that direction and try to discredit us by exposing our views regarding Zionism, they would not need to go as far as a posting on the AR Section of UK’s IMC site, believe me. All the Yassam police officers and all media reporters recognize our faces, and it would be a piece of (vegan) cake for anyone to prove that some of these kids in front of the Castro stores can also be seen in closed military zones, demonstrating with the villagers of Bil’in or Budrus against the Apartheid wall."

That is different, very different. One's enemies may indeed attack one based upon OTHER causes with which one is associated but this is poor logic. In other words, we see it done all the time, but it is refuatable. I, like anybody else, can be for (or against) "animal rights" irregardless of my position on other issues.

I thought the "linkage" statement was stupid.

And maybe you are naive. I am supposing that this little linkage was not included in the Evrit version posted locally. But what reason do you have to suppose that IMC viewers are local to the site. Anonymous as to person, yes, but not anononymous in the sense of not being one of thsoe there, right? Well I'm physically located farther from the UK than you are -- so much for your having posted far away. And do you imagibne I've seen this piece just on THIS site? Not the way IndyMedia works.

Now don't worry, I am not going to forward to the Israeli furriers (even though my mother's maiden name was Kurschner) and that is in spite of the fact that I am not "animal rights" (I am "environmental", a whole different kettle of fish, means I might ACT against trapping furbearers but though disapproving, probably not against fur wearing per se). Unless the Israeli animal rights scene is VERY diofferent form here I would assume that people's concern about the (mis)treatemnt of animals bears littel relationship to their politics in other areas. Of course you ARE claiming to be involved in a very different scene, don't you. In my huimble experience (been active since the 60's here in the States) the "politicals" are RARELY interested in environmental of animal rights issues -- too blinded by their ideologies blaming all human ills on captialism and believing (they really do) that if only we managed to do away with capitalism then miraculously we would find ourselves living in balance with the rest of Nature, become vegans, etc. > It would be refreshing to learn that Israeli activists were different in this regard, but I'd have to say "I'm from Missouri" >

"
Where does the israeli animal rights movement stand on the occupation?"

Where does the Palestinian Animal Rights movement (silly question, because it doesn't exist) stand on women's rights? Gay rights? The answer is unfortunately and painfully obvious.

Stop demonizing jewish minority ! WHY you are soooooo obsessed on Israel bashing?
why such a pathological obsession with Israel?
It wouldn't have something to do that the country is full of Jews?

We have come to such a state of affairs whereby the actions of Sharon and the settlers are seen as a manifestation of Jewishness and not the actions of politicians.

Equating Zionism with racism is not only grossly offensive it is at a moronic level of political sophistication. If you go to Israel you will see the complexity of the political and social situation there is nothing like the news reports it to be. I am no Israel apologist but the reality is vastly different to the wet dream fantasies of Anti Semites.

Is it some Animal rights movement in Palestine, or Iran? or maybe Iraq? or Lebanon ?
hahahahaha