Saudis warned British, U.S. about threat against London
Treshold | 02.09.2005 13:24 | Analysis
Months before the deadly July 7 suicide bombings in London, Saudi Arabia told the British and U.S. governments that it had arrested a young Saudi man who confessed to raising money in the Gulf region for a terrorist attack in crowded areas of the British capital this summer, officials said.
The Saudis obtained information that the attack would involve explosives and a Syrian contact for financing, and that at least some of the four attackers would be British citizens, according to officials in several countries with direct access to the information.
The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information remains classified, cautioned that the current investigation has not connected any players from the July attacks to the original Saudi warning and that the information last December did not provide attackers' names, a date, specific location or time of attack.
But they said the information gleaned from the suspect after he was captured returning to the kingdom was detailed enough to heighten British concerns about the possibility of an attack around July in crowded sections of London, including in nightclubs, one U.S. official said. It added to numerous other pieces of intelligence flowing into Western governments that pointed to such threats, the officials told The Associated Press.
The British government said it does not comment on specific intelligence, but "takes all reports of alleged or possible terrorist threats or activity extremely seriously, and all reports are thoroughly investigated."
The British government also said its relationship with Saudi intelligence agencies is growing.
"The U.K. and Saudi Arabia continue to strengthen their already excellent counterterrorism
bilateral cooperation. But for obvious security reasons, we do not go into any detail," the
British Embassy in Washington said in a statement to AP.
On July 7, four suicide bombers killed 52 people and wounded hundreds in an attack on London's
transit network. It was the first reported suicide bombing in Western Europe. Two weeks later,
a similar attack in London failed when explosives carried by the attackers didn't go off.
Both attacks are believed to have involved young British Muslim men who were carrying bulky bags or backpacks laden with powerful, homemade explosives. Their explosive, HMDT, can be made using ordinary ingredients such as hydrogen peroxide (hair bleach), citric acid (a common food preservative) and heat tablets (sometimes used by the military for cooking).
Three of the four alleged July 7 bombers were of Pakistani descent. No one is in custody in the July 7 attack, but all of the main suspects in the July 21 plot have been charged.
After the attacks, Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador in London who soon is moving to a similar job in Washington, said his government had warned the British government months earlier that it had obtained information in Saudi Arabia about a possible attack in London.
The officials said the information the Saudis provided between December and February came from a young Saudi man who was captured after using a false passport as he arrived back in the kingdom in mid-December.
The man had traveled from Iraq to Iran to the United Arab Emirates and then tried to return to the Saudi kingdom. He was using the passport of a Saudi killed in Iraq months earlier, the officials said.
The Saudi man told Saudi intelligence that he was collecting money throughout the Gulf region for a terrorist operation to be carried out in about six months in London, they said.
The man told his interrogators that the attack would involve plastic explosives purchased from Chechen rebels from the Russian mob, and be carried out by several men in a crowded location in London, the officials said.
The man told Saudi interrogators that a Libyan businessman in London was supposed to act as a facilitator for the attack, arranging lodging and cars for the operation. And he claimed one or more of the attackers were to be British citizens, officials said.
The man told his interrogators that when he was finished collecting money in the Gulf region for the operation, he was to call a specific telephone number in Syria to find out what to do with the cash, officials said.
By February, Saudi authorities had extracted additional information from the suspect that was passed to U.S. and British officials. Most of it involved descriptions, such as physical characteristics of the possible attackers, officials said.
British officials have said little about their investigations into the July 7 and July 21 terrorist attacks, and nothing has emerged about the possibility that Libyans or Syrians might have been involved in financing or planning them.
Roger Cressey, a former top anti-terrorism official in the Clinton and Bush administrations, said the Saudi report illustrates one challenge that friendly intelligence agencies face in unraveling specific terror plots - difficulty getting the names of sleeper cell members.
"You can receive information about the broad outline of a specific plot and not have enough granularity to the information that allows for the type of follow up that law enforcement can do," Cressey said.
He said terror groups carefully compartmentalize information so that a fund-raiser like the one the Saudis apparently captured "knows enough to get his job down but not enough so that if he is captured he can reveal the whole plot."
Al-Faisal, who is a former Saudi intelligence chief, has repeatedly urged Britain to crack down on two Saudi dissidents who are based in London and whom the Saudis accuse of being Islamic extremists linked to Al-Qaida.
Last week, Prime Minister Tony Blair's government announced new anti-terrorism measures that would empower it to deport or bar entry to extremist Muslims.
The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information remains classified, cautioned that the current investigation has not connected any players from the July attacks to the original Saudi warning and that the information last December did not provide attackers' names, a date, specific location or time of attack.
But they said the information gleaned from the suspect after he was captured returning to the kingdom was detailed enough to heighten British concerns about the possibility of an attack around July in crowded sections of London, including in nightclubs, one U.S. official said. It added to numerous other pieces of intelligence flowing into Western governments that pointed to such threats, the officials told The Associated Press.
The British government said it does not comment on specific intelligence, but "takes all reports of alleged or possible terrorist threats or activity extremely seriously, and all reports are thoroughly investigated."
The British government also said its relationship with Saudi intelligence agencies is growing.
"The U.K. and Saudi Arabia continue to strengthen their already excellent counterterrorism
bilateral cooperation. But for obvious security reasons, we do not go into any detail," the
British Embassy in Washington said in a statement to AP.
On July 7, four suicide bombers killed 52 people and wounded hundreds in an attack on London's
transit network. It was the first reported suicide bombing in Western Europe. Two weeks later,
a similar attack in London failed when explosives carried by the attackers didn't go off.
Both attacks are believed to have involved young British Muslim men who were carrying bulky bags or backpacks laden with powerful, homemade explosives. Their explosive, HMDT, can be made using ordinary ingredients such as hydrogen peroxide (hair bleach), citric acid (a common food preservative) and heat tablets (sometimes used by the military for cooking).
Three of the four alleged July 7 bombers were of Pakistani descent. No one is in custody in the July 7 attack, but all of the main suspects in the July 21 plot have been charged.
After the attacks, Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador in London who soon is moving to a similar job in Washington, said his government had warned the British government months earlier that it had obtained information in Saudi Arabia about a possible attack in London.
The officials said the information the Saudis provided between December and February came from a young Saudi man who was captured after using a false passport as he arrived back in the kingdom in mid-December.
The man had traveled from Iraq to Iran to the United Arab Emirates and then tried to return to the Saudi kingdom. He was using the passport of a Saudi killed in Iraq months earlier, the officials said.
The Saudi man told Saudi intelligence that he was collecting money throughout the Gulf region for a terrorist operation to be carried out in about six months in London, they said.
The man told his interrogators that the attack would involve plastic explosives purchased from Chechen rebels from the Russian mob, and be carried out by several men in a crowded location in London, the officials said.
The man told Saudi interrogators that a Libyan businessman in London was supposed to act as a facilitator for the attack, arranging lodging and cars for the operation. And he claimed one or more of the attackers were to be British citizens, officials said.
The man told his interrogators that when he was finished collecting money in the Gulf region for the operation, he was to call a specific telephone number in Syria to find out what to do with the cash, officials said.
By February, Saudi authorities had extracted additional information from the suspect that was passed to U.S. and British officials. Most of it involved descriptions, such as physical characteristics of the possible attackers, officials said.
British officials have said little about their investigations into the July 7 and July 21 terrorist attacks, and nothing has emerged about the possibility that Libyans or Syrians might have been involved in financing or planning them.
Roger Cressey, a former top anti-terrorism official in the Clinton and Bush administrations, said the Saudi report illustrates one challenge that friendly intelligence agencies face in unraveling specific terror plots - difficulty getting the names of sleeper cell members.
"You can receive information about the broad outline of a specific plot and not have enough granularity to the information that allows for the type of follow up that law enforcement can do," Cressey said.
He said terror groups carefully compartmentalize information so that a fund-raiser like the one the Saudis apparently captured "knows enough to get his job down but not enough so that if he is captured he can reveal the whole plot."
Al-Faisal, who is a former Saudi intelligence chief, has repeatedly urged Britain to crack down on two Saudi dissidents who are based in London and whom the Saudis accuse of being Islamic extremists linked to Al-Qaida.
Last week, Prime Minister Tony Blair's government announced new anti-terrorism measures that would empower it to deport or bar entry to extremist Muslims.
Treshold
Comments
Hide the following 44 comments
Confused
02.09.2005 18:20
"It was a Mossad, CIA, MI6 operation", you mean to say it may have been a Muslim extremist gang after all who did this ?
Confused
notice the timing
02.09.2005 18:38
the shitstorm in the USA
this is the perfect time to bury and indeed
invent news
but hey!
just like the Khan video released at such
a strange time as well
its all true it must be!
the govvimmint say so
pc
clutching at straws
03.09.2005 11:17
You are portraying people as gullible for accepting this recent 'evidence' at face value, yet can produce nothing substantial to prove any of the alternative claims - beyond an obsession with a statement made by Peter Power on Radio 5 shortly after the attack (no doubt the state will refuse his services in future due to his complete inability to stop owning up to everything on public radio shortly after any 'operation'). I also think there is something deeply patronising about treating victims of UK state terror in the middle east (and those that support their cause) as mere passive victims who are apparently completely incapable of launching a (counter?)terrorist attack without state assistance
also confused
Fot those who are confused
03.09.2005 12:12
And this post I have made yesterday on Team8 :
Rudolf Giuliani is in Yorkshire, United Kindom, on 6/7/2005. From 2 until 3.15 pm, he delivers an inflamated speech about leadership, hailing notably Georges W. Bush, Tony Blair and the War On Terror, to UK councillors as part of the Local Government Association Conference 2005 held for 4 days at the Harrogate International Center, a few miles north of Leeds, where he does receive a standing ovation from his public. (Rudolf Giuliani already spoke in Harrogate in 2002 at the Yorkshire Event Centre, hosting the Yorkshire International Business Convention, shortly after having been awarded his honorary title of Knight Commander Of The British Empire by the Queen.) Other speakers at the Local Government Association Conference 2005 includes Lord John Stevens, ex-commissioner of the Metropolitan Police of London; Sir Michael Lyons, Head of the inquiry into local government funding; senior UK government ministers and leading UK politicians from opposition parties.
Rudolf Giuliani spends the night from 6 to 7 in London at the Great Eastern Hotel. It is adjacent to Liverpool Street Station.
On 7/7, at 2 o'clock in the morning, Peter Power, head of Visor Consultants, finally takes a few hours of sleep. He had spent the whole day at the Great Eastern Hotel or Liverpool Street Station to polish the latest details of the organisation of the crisis management team he will head the next day in an anti-terror exercise simulating a simultaneous suicide bomb attack on the London Underground for a private company he does not name but I believe to possibly be the Edmond De Rothschild Israel Opportunity Fund or the Tel-Aviv Stock Exchange (See 2nd paragraph below).
Giuliani's business is the same as Power's.
On the morning of 7/7, the high profile Israel finance minister and Likud Party leader, Benyamin Netanyahu is scheduled to attend the Tel-Aviv Stock Exchange Israel Opportunity Conference 2005 held at the Great Eastern Hotel in London.
Giuliani and Netanyahu (albeit not on 7/7) :
On 8/7, an interview with Rudolf Giuliani is the first item related to the 7/7 bombings to appear on the London Metropolitan Police website.
[ Edited Fri Sep 02 2005, 08:30PM ]
gazubal
Correction
03.09.2005 14:18
gazubal
Wow!
03.09.2005 15:21
Well, I mean, this really does prove it beyond all doubt. A staement from the ex-mayor of New York. Definitely Mossad then, no doubt about it.
sceptic
also
03.09.2005 15:49
75 percent of Verint's stock is owned by Comverse, a company founded and led by Israelis (again according to Israel21c) that's now headquartered in New York.
Albeit not suspected to be involved in 7/7 so far, worth is knowing the existence of Magal Security Systems Ltd. A company not dissimilar to Verint Systems Ltd who's got customers such as Royal Palaces, Iraqi pipelines, airports, nuclear power plants and "many government facilities around the world".
Still confused ?
gazubal
skeptic
03.09.2005 16:38
But for sure there are a significant number of Mossad agents around at Liverpool Street station and at the Great Eastern Hotel just before the bomb explodes as Netanyahu (former prime minister and current finance minister of the State of Israel) is meant to arrive to attend that Israel Opportunity Conference at aproximately the same time.
Otherwise there is no proof of anything in what I have written. There is just extremely strong circumstancial evidence that that would be enough I think to warrant judicial enquiry into the whereabouts of a certain number of entities present at the crime scene and who for some directly profit of the crime in business contracts as some of my above links show.
Notably Giuliani who is not only present a few yards from the bomb when it explode and subsequently the Met's spokesman on the web but also has a gap that I do not manage to bridge from 3.15 pm on 6/7/2005 in Harrogate a few miles north of Leeds (where the bombers also are) and the next day when the bomb explodes a few yards from him having his breakfast.
He has largely enough time with his team to take care of the Leeds "bombers".
Nice try but you can't confuse me with what I have digged myself.
gazubal
wtf
03.09.2005 17:39
sceptic
wtf ?
03.09.2005 21:10
I just know that he is in the same professional business as Peter Power of Visor Consultants (Selling security threats assessments and post-crisis emergency management solutions to corporate and governments).
I guess that Peter Power is hired by the Israel Opportunity Conference or one of its sponsors and that the goal of the exercise is actually to test how well all that people (Netanyahu's security and the Conference's security) would perform to put their flock to safety in the case of a terrorist attack.
I suspect that Giuliani is actually hired, as Power is, to be there.
If he is not hired, his high political profile (potential 2008 US presidential candidate) doubled with his business speciality makes it extremely unlikely in my eyes that he can ignore this drill takes place and that's the sole reason he is where he is in my view.
Additionally, agents of MI6 and other British agencies are also around. Or rather should be. They only obey orders after all and many might be used in Glasgow for the G-8 summit which was much higher profile than the pair Giuliani-Netanyahu at the Great Eastern Hotel.
Obviously Tony Blair has put a veto on any public enquiry into the whereabouts surrounding 7/7.
Not surprising isnt' it when you consider all those who are present at the crime scene.
Also you say : "If by some bizarre conspiracy, he and Netanyahu were involved, do you really think, if you have but a smidgeon of intelligence, that they'd be within a thousand miles of the bombing?"
People involved in a crime are usually seen at the crime scene not thousands of miles from it.
When Giuliani is being asked at what he thinks of being twice so close from a terrorist attack (9/11 and 7/7) he says that only God can answer that one.
At least we now know he was in Harrogate near Leeds, hired from 2 to 3.15 pm by the UK government the day before so it is sure he didn't double cross the arab lads that were also somewhere out there.)
Strange that his NY Office reportedely did not want to speak about the nature of his travel besides saying it was for business.
Why couldn't they just say he had been hired the day before to speak at Harrogate for the UK government and that he was just on its way back to NY the next day.
There is no secret about it.
So maybe it is because he was travelling to the UK with too large a team of the many former FBI and NYPD executives he employs for solely giving a 75 minutes speech at the Local Government Association Conference 2005.
gazubal
ah, I see
03.09.2005 22:41
Right.
What about the 8 million other people in London at the same time? Do they fall under equal suspicion?
sceptic
sceptic
04.09.2005 01:05
Their average probabilty rate of being involded decreases rapidly and considerably with their distance from the crime scene.
Then there are all the other factors I have amply enumerated.
What's your take on 7/7, sceptic ?
And
Do you reckon there should be a public enquiry into or not ?
gazubal
Proximity
04.09.2005 10:11
There is an obvious problem to inquiries and release of information in the immediate aftermath. Firstly, the police do not want to give information away to future bombers. "This one failed because ..." is exactly what any future bombers want to know. Secondly, unlike America, or crimes depicted in films or on TV, there is a very strict sub judice law in England and Wales. Releases of prejudicial information gives immediate grounds for appeal after any trial.
A lot of people have been determined to try to prove this was some sort of 'false flag' operation. They base most of their case on phrases used in reports in newspapers, or on TV, or on websites. One of the first rules when it comes to newspoaper reports - particularly in the immediate aftermath of events - is that they get things wrong. Journalists are not experts nor do they have any special insights. Basing any theories on what you might read in a particular newspaper article is a recipe for disaster.
Should there be an inquiry? If there is to be one, it would have to be after the inquests and any trials. But what would an enquiry tell us? If you really do think this was 'state inspired terrorsim', then what point would a state sponsored enquiry serve?
Frankly, after the recent release of the video by al Jazeera, I do think it was committed by Khan and the others. Faking a video like that is not entirely impossible, but how would you get him to read out all those lines if it was a fake? I'm sure someone could come up with a scenario, but it would read more like Michael Crichton than real life.
If this was state sponsored, then it's a very high risk policy. If the truth comes out, an awful lot of people would end up in prison. There are two further points. One is that to carry out something like this, you would need a large number of people lower down in the chain - thoise who faked the video, for example. Are you going to tell me that not one of them is going to object to blowing up scores of his own countrymen? That the powers that be would put themselves hostage to these people? It just needs one of them to write his story ten years later, and the whole thing falls apart.
The second is that what does the state have to gain? All right, it can push through more terrorism laws. But what, in practice, do these laws do? Not a lot really, if there are no suicide bombers around. In fact, from the Government's point of view, the bombs were an embarrassment, since a lot of commentators seized on them as a reason for saying: look what happened as a result of being in Iraq.
And please, please, do not invoke the Zionists. According to many on Indymedia, they have been responsible for everything from the tsunami to the war in Iraq. One thing does surprise me - no one has yet suggested Israeli involvement in Katrina and New Orleans. But I'm waiting for it ....
sceptic
sceptic
04.09.2005 19:23
If you were a suicide bomber, board a train in Luton, travel your way to London's King Cross then walk through corridors, wait for a train to arrive, board it and then wait several minutes with your victims until your bomb explodes, would there be quickly an almost full length movie available of you or just one single frame (edited by Photoshop) of you entering Luton's train station ?
Additionally if you were to suicide bomb yourself as a "soldier", would you leave behind you, in the boot of your rented car in Luton, several explosive devices that you could take with you to maximise your kill ?
gazubal
how do you know
04.09.2005 20:08
And the bombs in the car (have you a link?) - what you're implying is that they were left there cos he's a plant, and they added extra authenticity. Well - if even you could work that one out, then they weren't so clever, were they?
Extra bombs - perhaps they were expecting a fifth man, who didn't turn up. Who knows? I don't. You don't. Pointless talking about it really.
sceptic
sceptic
04.09.2005 21:29
What is relevant is that abundant good quality footage of the bombers viewed from all angles should be available. There is none of it ? Where is it ?
There are cameras everywhere in the tube that are filming everything that happens permanently and store it onto hard drives.
Where are the all the many CCTV footages of the bombers that should be available ? Can you tell me ?
To know how many are missing, you go in the tube yourself and do their alleged trip. You will carefully count all the cameras that are filming you. Then you'll multiply that result by at least two for those you have fail to spot.
Then you'll get an estimate of what is missing : Your first result minus one frame in Luton.
As for the planted bombs it's here :
if it's pointless to talk about it, what are you doing here arguing with me ?
gazubal
The 'missing' pictures
04.09.2005 22:07
And why is it that all the rest of the media are happy with the police explanations? Are they all in the pay of the state? Or have they all - each and every one of them - been leaned on?
sceptic
gazubal
04.09.2005 23:24
Still don't believe it? Okay do it yourself with paper and scissors:
1. Get any background
2. Get the images of any three people
3. Cut out the people and place then ON the background
See how you couldn't get a person behind a little bit of the background without actually setting out to do it! The same principal applies to digital manipulation.
Please do not rebuff this until YOU have tried as I have instructed.
Get a grip!
Snoopy
sceptic
05.09.2005 00:40
Can the public see the whole fucking movie now ?
Watch those amazing (according to the police itself) CCTV footage here :
And how they treat you like a brainless and stupid donkey.
Which is what most of the mainstream press also do.
An emergency crisis management cell is in place in advance. There is no footage of anything available from the police after 2 months. But Mossad is massively deployed around. The world specialist on post-terror attack emergency crisis management response and one of the main salesman of the War On terror concepts who profits financially from this attack is also there. Evidence supporting the "official" line (always fed so far by the NYPD to the US press and then vaguely confirmed/not fully denied by Scotland Yard) is unconvincing at best, an insult to basic intelligence at worst. Tony Blair has put a veto on any enquiry.
I have made the case clear enough and more than that I think.
Another thing : You asked for a link to the pics of the bombs in an earlier post. Didn't you see them before ? You've just landed recently or what ?
gazubal
scoopy adobe
05.09.2005 01:36
As for the rest of what you say, if I understand well, you are speaking about layers. But there are other tools than layers in Photoshop such as a clone brush with which you can easily do the thing some see there and that appears therefore to be the fact of a whistleblower rather than a mistake as one can't obtain that by just superimposing and merging a layer as you've rightly said.
gazubal
gazubal
05.09.2005 07:26
Perhaps I need reschooling in new compositing techniques:
As I understand it Premier functions with layers too. And how would you deal with aliasing problems with Clone Brush (assuming you are suggesting it is used directly onto the background layer?) without creating even more manipulation footprints than a composite?
Please walk us through the techniques you are alluding to. Better still please also supply visual references to the dispute still that illustrate fakery.
Are you really arguing that something that cannot be 100% classified as a mistake and can to my eye easily be explained by planing around with contrast levels and saturation... is there because someone wanted to flag up a fake? You think these conspiracists who could afford a composite genius couldn't afford TWO to make sure? Even if it did slip by, why are there no screams of "fake!" coming from the professional community?
Is every expert/amateur video geek, photographer, graphic artist, academic being gagged by the conspirators. Sounds like tosh to me.
Snoopy
bombers
05.09.2005 08:09
There were some Mossad agents in town. Well, that settles it then. Go back a few posts: if you are involved, then you keep a low profile. You don't advertise your presence.
And again: why Israel? What does it have to gain? Will it make the UK more keen to stay in Iraq? No, So why them?
sceptic
Last post of me in this thread (hopefully)
05.09.2005 10:16
If it's not enough here is pic of the Luton "soldiers" I have tweaked myself with the clone brush in around 30 seconds with Paint Shop Pro 7 :
And don't come arguing that PSP is not Photoshop.
@sceptic : I don't have an answer to all your generic questions about the meaning of life and the speed of the wind in the meadows but not having them doesn't weaken what I am saying in any way.
All I am saying is that the official line is not credible. That on the other hand, there are a number of things that are strange to say the least. And that, in my view, it desserves, for many good reasons (national security reasons and other stuff like that), investigation into the matter with better forensic tools than those I have.
And please reread the whole thread carefully.
gazubal
gazubal
05.09.2005 11:07
Here's a a few minutes worth of manipulation in Photoshop to show where the outline of the figures actually is... this has been thrashed to death previously. I haven't touched the content morphology other than adding an orange line to show the outline more clearly. The rest is all tonal manipulation.
You failed to address my points, so I can only assume that you haven't a clue.
Snoopy
clueless ?
05.09.2005 11:53
2) If I create a big canvas, I can paste in it two diferent images and forge that pic with the clone brush. (+ a little bit pixel level editing to clean up).
3) I haven't claimed anything about layers. It was all you. Me I said there was other tools than layers in photoshop such as the clone brush. And now you give me lessons about layers. And tell me I am clueless !
Who is more than fucking clueless ?
gazubal
also
05.09.2005 12:24
Thanks to have further attracted my attention to that image, snoopy.
gazubal
gazubal
05.09.2005 12:34
I ask you again for evidence the image is faked.
The original argument about this picture wasn't even about "layers" (compositting: ALL composites are based on layering of some description) until myself and a few others here agreed that such an error couldn't come about by compositting. How on earth did they fake the image if they didn't composite??? Masonic incantation?
The theory about figure outlines dates back to the precompositting arguments, thus leadws back to the allegation of compositting... but hey, I'm just too stupid to keep track of this. Go play about with tonal parameters and see that the outline is quite clear.
"2) If I create a big canvas, I can paste in it two diferent images and forge that pic with the clone brush. (+ a little bit pixel level editing to clean up)."
What is the advantage of doing it that way. If you paste to a layer you have better all round control and don't have to restort to amateur smearing of a whole image at the pixel level (easier to detect)??? You seem to think that cloning is somehow different or more subtle than layer compositting. Why???
And what the hell has clone brushing (i.e. a compositting tool) got to do with anything except this crazy new "whistleblower" theory.
If the whistleblower's handlers were too inept to spot that, then why didn't they just use steganography to flag up the fake (then whistleblow the message later) or even just make a simple mathematical pixel pattern somewhere?
It's just nuts as an explanation! If this image is fake, then it isn't for any of the reason that have so far been presented.
Clueless Snoopy
gazubal
05.09.2005 12:52
Or are you suggesting he is intending to stride into the wall whilst twisting his torso unnaturally towards the camera??? The picture is so crap it's hard to tell if you can see either of his legs. But I assume the partial white trainer is his left leg and that the toe of his right leg is seen next to number 2's plastic bag. But he might not have even been walking...
No-one could say with another few frames.
Still see nothing obviously fake.
Snoopy
For one last time
05.09.2005 15:21
The whistleblower is the only explanation if indeed that bar shows above a coat when it should be hidden. But there is no way to say for certain if the man wears a coat or a jacket. Not even a single second photograph of him on which it would be clear what he wears and would dispel doubt as to the significance or the non-significance as an evidence of whistleblowing forgery of that part of the image.
Additionally one could still have created this image with layers if there was 3 of them and the 4th bomber had legs.
If you can show me please with an arrow on the pic where the missing leg and shoe is, I'd be grateful.
That's my evidence that it is faked. There is part of a leg and a shoe missing.
It's the single and only photograph made available to the public and they (you) want to me to swallow it is "evidence".
gazubal
legs
05.09.2005 15:58
Your version :
While I think one should be visible where the green arrow points to :
Go away and buy another Photoshop with all the money they give you.
gazubal
gazubal
05.09.2005 19:03
Ah, we're back to your baseless accusations already. That means you have lost the plot as usual.
I'm staying as far away from Lalaland as possible thanks.
Snoopy
snoopy
06.09.2005 16:16
All you have done in each and any of your posts in this thread is try to discredit me as a clueless idiot on image editing as to try to discredit everything else I am saying in this thread.
You have been pityfully unsuccessfull in your attempts.
And for a finish I unequivocally prove for the first time that the only photograph of the 7/7 bombers forwarded to the public by the Police is a gross forgery. ( See two posts above).
I have also proven that mossad is heavily present at the main crime scene. And there are also many other things related to the 7/7 mass-murders I prove in this thread.
For a finish you tell me I have lost the plot as usual.
Please would you tell me exactly where ?
And tell me as well why this is usual ?
After all this is not a long time I post here and I never used this nick anywhere else. So I must probably infer you are one the fucks who already attacked me (always unsuccessfully) on irrelevant details as to try to discredit me as a poster in other cyber places where I have been.
Now, I am going to tell you and everyone reading me here (Hello all at the Cheltenham doughnut, still defending the realm ?) what you are : You are paid by those who are responsible for the 7//7 murders and it is your job to try to discredit me and others and you know the full score about the story way better than I do.
One day you'll end up behind bars for long years, if you are lucky enough.
Still there or already on the run ?
gazubal
gazubal
06.09.2005 17:29
You proved nothing so far. I don't work for any government agency and never have done.
I'm an anarchist who thinks Grand Zionist Conspiracy theories are stupid and baseless, that's all. "And I'm not the only one!"
You see, I don't assume that anyone who disagrees with me is a spook or cop... rather silly and egocentric logic when you think about it.
You really think GCHQ gives a fuck about this place? LOL!
Why not send your PSP dabblings to a proper forensic scientist (there are plenty of academics who openly display there .ac.uk or .edu addresses) and get back to us... with something credible?
Snoopy vs. the Red Baron
I'm with Snoopy
06.09.2005 20:58
Leone
snoopy - leone
06.09.2005 23:14
So I showed your claim as I understood it outlined here :
You just told me I didn't get it.
As I am too stupid to understand your explanations, please show me where the legs are by outlining the skeleton of the man on top of the pic.
I claim the Luton photograph is a gross forgery with a part of a leg and a shoe missing here as I have shown already :
Also Cheltenham reads everything here otherwise no one would bother either to get tapes from TV stations from the G-8 summit as to identify protesters.
You are working for the murderers I've said, I repeat it. I'll drop that claim only if you prove me wrong about the missing leg or acknowledge I am correct about it.
Show me where the missing leg is.
@leone : I would advise you to get to know what we speak about here before posting an opinion about a video. No video is discussed in this thread. Have you read everything and understood all the points ?
gazubal
correction - addition
07.09.2005 01:29
Otherwise what I quote and post just above doesn't make much sense.
Adding @leone : I assume you are speaking about Sidique Khan's video.
gazubal
gazubal
07.09.2005 06:57
Call me whatever you want. It's only denial on your behalf. "An anarchist could never disbelieve that Grand Zionist Conspiracy!!!" Well, we aren't all barking mad saddos that think our enemies are responsible for ALL our ills- pretty disempowering philosophy to belive they are.
The most I have ever done in my life is drive PAST about 20 years ago GCHQ; been interviewed as a witness BY CID and interviewed some spooks (now desk jockeys) as research.
I am bored of your PSP ramblings. You are never going to be pursauded by me anyway. As I have suggested go to someone with more forensic credentials than I have and see what they make of your theory. I think it's utter crap and I think you know deep down it is too. Otherwise, why do none of you go looking for some credibility from knowledgable sources? Why has not a single forensic scientist or eminent boffin stood up to discredit this so-called fake yet? And you can't seriously entertain the idea that ALL of them are in the grip of the Conspirators... that'd be too far fethched.
Like I said come back when you have some credibility to your assertions. And if you prove me wrong, I'll take it like a man.
Snoopy
It is a pretty broad thread Gazubal
07.09.2005 07:04
Leone
snoopy
07.09.2005 19:11
You still haven't done it and you tell me now you are bored by my ramblings.
Can you please outline the skeleton of the man on top of the pic.
Also I haven't understood one of your sigies that obviously carries a cryptic message or statement of some sort : Snoopy vs The Red Baron. You are snoopy, this is obvious but can you explain who the Red Baron is ? I am so curious of everything.
And you have twice put in my mouth claims about a "Grand Zionist Conspiracy". I am asking you, where do you take this from ?
Is it because I for once prove that mossad is actually quite massively present at the crime scene, that the CCTVs of that same crime scene is in the hands of an israeli owned company called Verint Systems and that the whole Visor drill revolves obviously around the Israel Opportunity Conference 2005 ?
Those are just facts I have dugged here and there and none comes from a conspiracy site.
I thought so far that anarchists were by definition bent on subverting any form of authority but I can only note that you obviously defend here the government's line with an astonishing zeal for a so-called anarchist..
Tell me more about the Red Baron please.
gazubal
gazubal
07.09.2005 19:45
The Red Baron: try Google.
You call that "proof"? Hardly anything you could base a prosecution on. And it's just *WILD* coincedence it's the same drivel you happen to find on the con$piracy sites... yeah, right.
Oh, blimey. I didn't realise that refusing to believe that Mossad is behind everything means I am supporting the governement, hahahaha!
Who do you REALLY subvert when you stoop to lies to discredit your foes! I have too much self respect for such twattery.
That's all I have to say on the matter until you get some credible support for "your theories".
Goodnight Vienna!
P.S. Nice touch with the hypercorrection of an irregular verb; an almost convincing performance of ESL... if you happen to be daft as a brush.
Snoopy vs. Anne Elk
snoopy
08.09.2005 00:17
Blimey ? Do you write in Top Of The Pops or Hello as well ? It's only there I have seen that word printed. What does it mean by the way ?
Mossad is a foreign secret service that is well known for its dirty tricks. They come along with a psycho called Netanyahu who still believes he is prime minister of Israel(see his bio on his website) and that has got a lot to win politically from a suicide bomber attack in a western capital.
And how come is Giuliani, Netanyahu's mate, in Leeds (where the "bombers" also are)the day before the bombings to hail the war on terror to local government executives from 2.00 to 3.15 pm; then a few yards from the bomb exploding the next day, then the spokesman of the British Police on the web the next ? How come that all the information (including the photographs of the Luton bombs) available to the press and the public about the police enquiry come from the NYPD in which Giuliani taps half of his extremely well paid employees.
Or maybe it is because he is Knight Commander and Sir Ian Blair ain't that high in the British Empire so that he automatically obeys Giuliani. Or what ?
I would not be speculating about all this of course if had received more evidence than that single Luton picture whose quality is beyond awfull and whose authenticity is really doubtfull.
I don't watch telly but I think I am not wrong saying there are programs made in conjunjction with the police in which they use CCTV footage they show to the public to solve crimes.
Why ain't the beeb so far done a 7/7 documentary with some of the CCTV footage that the Police's got ? Or ain't there any ?
Of course I have no "proof", but as Blair vetoes any enquiry I speak up my suspicions.
And guess what ? I am getting attacked by an anarchist.
Weird place isn'it ?
But don't worry. As you've said I have only hardly anything prosecution could be based upon.
"Suicide Bombers" died comitting their crimes. File is closed and police is too busy now collecting footage from the G-8 summit. They'll be accusing next those thus identified of justifying terror as one third of what "Siddique Khan" says from the grave could be said by many of the G-8 protestors so that I fear that ill-speaking about the brutal mutilation (tens of Katrinas worth in terms of death and damage on infrastructure) of the country of Iraq by the armed forces of the United States and the United Kingdom that's obviously much waged for the sole benefit of the big megacorporate shareholders and market speculators will possibly be made an offence if not a crime shortly.
gazubal
gazubal
08.09.2005 06:48
I'm sure you can find someone to pull it apart critically...
The rest of what you written (on topic) has been discussed *extensively* elsewhere on IM. Use the search function.
And you can drop the obvious pretence of speaking English as a foreign language.
As I said, come back when you have some credible support for your theories.
Snoopy
snoopy
08.09.2005 17:36
Thanks again to have attracted my attention to that Luton pic I did not take the leisure to properly look at previously. I am very grateful. I hope you don't bleed too much.
As for your last pic, as you tease my forensic skills with it, unless you've scanned that from a magazine, you seem to have a fast and expensive sportcar (possibly yellow) to cruise Wiltshire/Hampshire with. Beware of accidents. Roads are sometimes very slippy in places over there.
Goodbye.
gazubal
gazubal
09.09.2005 10:44
Snoopy