rehashed conspiracy

No

Only eye-witnesses say that! The police wouldn't lie, would they?

Clearly Tony hasn't heard of the Rashomon effect:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_effect

Go read something, anything about the effects of localised explosions on vehicles like trains and buses, look at some of the pictures from similar attacks in Israel. Explosions of this kind don't go off like Hollywood movies, the blast is affected by container design, blast shockwave reflection effect and nearby obstructions. You might also want to have a look at the "pull" effect of explosions where items nearby are pulled toward the explosion point as a result of air movement.

Most importantly of all stop filling up the newswire with this crap, try writing something on issues that matter, like the rise in attacks on Muslims since the attacks, the protest in Parliment Square etc

"The 7th July bombs were followed, exactly two weeks later, by failed copycat attacks".

The witnesses in the second incidents all said that backpacks were involved - only the detonators went off, but the bombers were injured by the blasts. One witness even asked the perp if he was OK!

How can that be called a copycat attack if the first bombs were under the train?

If you really have the courage of your convictions and genuinely believe what you're posting here, then it means that you believe that the four men accused of being suicide bombers were actually just four random men on the tubes who "fitted a profile" and thus easily scapegoated. You must then believe that they too were innocent victims of the true bombers.

So, to get a public debate started, why not hold a vigil for the four unjustly accused men outside the tube stations?

That is, if you genuinely believe what you're saying and are prepared to stand up and be counted.

Because I am a full member of the akward squad, I always look for the contra-indications ...

The speed of posting, as well as the (seemingly) multiple number of replies to this piece is interesting. The replier[s] seem to want ot test out new physics concepts on you, rather than let you filter the info through tried and tested physical laws.

In this new physics world; steel melts at half its normal temperature; kerosene increases its thermal potential many-fold; chaotically falling buildings do so at the exact and precise acceleration and speed of an object in freefall & the falling mass itself manages to 'influence' seismic apparatus before its impact on the ground, producing spikes of energy more usually associated with small earthquakes or large explosions; buildings, such as the Alfred Murry building in Oaklahoma, can be stripped of their concrete steel reinforced columns with blast over pressures many orders of magnitude below the threshold necessary; small, rapidly disassociative explosives, when placed ON the ground can take the path of increased resistance and produce significant blast craters; ... bombs placed on trains above the floor, can rip metal towards them, presumably because of the increased air density in underground trains forcing them to 'suck' solid metal upwards against gravity instead ...

... la la la ...

... put your fingers in your ears ...

... one or two of mr magoos lines are enough for you to go back to sleep ...

... listen to da man, he is 'not an expert in physics' etc ...

Gosh, you tossers have a lot of work to do lately. Must be sick at the thought of those grand jury inditments (and thus, a detailed and scientifically debatable showing of more of the evidence.)

Best hurry up with those GSEs so that you can go to uni and begin the path of getting the 'new physics' recognised by a smirking unfeeling body of real experts in physics!!!

... gosh you tossers ...

Thank God we have Jacklucid here to show us the way with his "knowledge" of ballistics and explosives.
Now we look at the evidence it is easy to see how rather than this being a small group of religious fantatics who are unrepresentitive of a peaceful world religion instead we have a concipracy of massive proportions involving the Cabinet, a large number of senior police officers, several members of Transport for London, the Mayor London and all the worlds news gathering organisations.

Repeat after me Jack my boy----- "Occam's Razor" - "Occam's Razor"

First eye witnesses are to be ditrusted, now *one* guy's eye witness statement to the *press* is not only to be believed but the guy is supposedly an explosives expert when he isn't flouncing around a stage.

Make your minds up and stop picking and choosing what you believe to fit your paranoid wank fantasies.

One day you are going to feel embarressed about this point in your life... please make it soon!

Steel doesn't have to melt for the towers to collapse. Steel becomes progressively weaker as the temperature rises. Thus the towers collapse well before the melting point of steel. This also helps with the kerosene energy release problem.

It's funny how some people just so 'need' to believe this was some sort of government concipracy instead of a bunch of religious nutters. We saw this with 9/11 where despite the evidence some could just not accept the reality and instead we have millions of words, pictures and drawings from people desperate to think it was anything except what really happended.

It seems the same thing will happen with the London bombings. Indeed we have the same circular thinking taking place, for example an expert in a field - say an explosives man gives a reason for an event but his views are dismissed because they are at odds with the concipracy idea so he must be a "government stooge" or a "paid liar". Compare this with the half formed theory of a journo looking to sell a few books (the Farenheit 911 effect) and instantly this is seized upon as "truth being supressed"

I realised with 911 that evidence is not the way these people are convinced because their "belief" in their version is too strong.

I suppose it's a bit of a shame really but it does mean that when real government cover ups take place it makes it that much harder for them to be proved.

 http://www.publiceye.org/antisemitism/nw_domhoff.html

Interview: G. William Domhoff

New Internationalist: Don't you study how power elites conspire? How can someone tell the difference between conspiracism and criticism of the status quo based on power structure research?

Domhoff: I think I study how elites strive to develop consensus, which is through such publicly observable organizations as corporate boards and the policy-planning network, which can be studied in detail, and which are reported on in the media in at least a halfway accurate manner. I think this is the opposite of a small, secretive, illegitimate conspiracy because this large group called the power elite is known to the public, clearly states its aims (profit, profit, and more profit, and less government), publishes its policy suggestions, and is seen as legitimate by a great majority of the public.

I also study the way in which elites in the United States and other democracies have agreed for a few hundred years now to settle the issues where they can't reach complete consensus, namely, through elections, which are also public and legitimate, and which can be observed by researchers in a fair amount of detail, including on the issue of campaign finance, and which are reported on fairly well in the media.

The interesting thing with elections, in terms of addressing the conspiracy kind of stuff, is that rival elites have in effect agreed not to get into all out violence and war with each other, although Americans elites did so only 144 years ago in the bloody Civil War. Political scientist John Higley talks of elites coming to "settlements" or "pacts" that lead to elections, but this is not through conspiring, historically speaking, but through sitting down to talk in frustration and exhaustion, usually after fighting each other to a draw over decades.

For the U.S., where there was no fight among elites in the 18th century, partly because they had a bigger common enemy in King George, the elite pact is the Constitution, which cuts all the key deals on property and slaves and government structure, and which is well known for the process of its creation, and was put to the people for a vote, which forced a Bill of Rights, so this is a very visible and legitimate elite pact. Within its context they agree to disagree. Once again, this is just about the opposite of a conspiracy.

Within that broad context, we all know that all of us plot and plan to further our interests on specific issues, not just elites, and we sometimes try out ideas in confidentiality. And within government there are discussions and plans that we do not know about, and there is often an attempt to mislead us, but that is not what I would mean by a conspiracy.

One of the great mistakes of conspiracy theorists is to take these everyday machinations as evidence for some grand conspiracy at the societal and historical levels. These theorists ignore all the evidence that such planning is usually discovered, whether in the media or by elite opponents, and sometimes leads to prosecutions.

There is no falsifying a conspiracy theory. Its proponents always find a way to claim the elite really won, even though everyday people stop some things, or win some battles, or have a say so through elections in which factions of the power elite win political power.

How to tell the difference from power structure research? We study visible institutions, take most of what elites say as statements of their values and intentions, and recognize that elites sometimes have to compromise, and sometimes lose. Conspiracists study alleged behind the scenes groups, think everything elites say is a trick, and claim that elites never lose.

New Internationalist: Why should progressive people be sensitized to the issue of conspiracism? Doesn't conspiracism help build a constituency that challenges that status quo? That's what people like Michael Parenti argues.

Domhoff: Conspiracism is a disaster for progressive people because it leads them into cynicism, convoluted thinking, and a tendency to feel it is hopeless even as they denounce the alleged conspirators.

Conspiracism is so contrary to what most everyday people believe and observe that it actually drives people away because they sense the tinge of craziness to it.

What social psychologists who study social movements say is that a social movement definitely needs a clear and visible opponent that embodies the values that are opposed, and which can be vilified and railed against. But in opposition to the conspiracists, these opponents are readily identifiable and working through visible and legitimate institutions.

So, I would say that the opponents are the corporate conservatives and the Republican Party, not the Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderbergers, and Bohemians. It is the same people more or less, but it puts them in their most important roles, as capitalists and political leaders, which are visible and legitimate...If thought of this way, then the role of a CFR as a place to try to hear new ideas and reach consensus is more readily understood, as is the function of a social club as a place that creates social cohesion. Moreover, those understandings of the CFR and the clubs fit with the perceptions of the members of the elite.




Please see
 http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/

... any other steel framed building ever fall down because of the failure of the steel at less than melting temperatures?

 http://www.911-strike.com/demolition_explosive.htm

... a good set of images of steel framed building, WTC 7, falling down:

 http://www.wtc7.net/

Pity we can not test this unique assumption ... despite it being a federal offence to tamper with [the] evidence and, despite the remains of the only steel framed buildings being a key piece of evidence of why they uniquely collapsed, the steel was promply shipped overseas to be melted down or dumped in the deepest part of the atlantic ocean!!!

Funny, because the evidence of the Alfred Murry building - and the inheirent physicaly embedded details of the blast characteristics within the powderised concrete of the steel re-enforced columns - where immediately buried or otherwise removed ... funny enough by the very same handsomely payed company!!!

 http://www.controlled-demolition.com/default.asp?reqLocId=2

 http://www.letsroll911.org/articles/controlleddemolition.html

 http://www.oilempire.us/demolition.html

 http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/reynolds/index.html

Same for the physical evidence that the bali bomb was not a simple fertilzer based bomb ... dumped in the deep ocean before detailed examination.

 http://www.vialls.com/nuke/bali_micro_nuke.htm

Seems some experts are not as welcome as others, when you have the a senior USAF general with 31 years of experience in ordanance and bomb design telling you about the impossibility of fertilizer truck bombs ... ignore him!!!

 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/ok9.htm

full story ...

 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/okm.htm

more ...

 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/ok.html

If that is not enough 'experts for you, try doing a search for Dr. Frederick Hansen, professor of physics at the University of Oregon.

Or, renowned physicist Samuel Cohen, the inventor of the "neutron bomb,", one of the last remaining scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project.

Or, Dr. Roger A. Raubach, research chemist at Stanford University.

Or, Dr. Ernest B. Paxson, an engineer with over 30 years experience in civilian and defense-related projects.

Do a search for them and see if you can find maggo[t], aturd or skepelectic in their company !?!

Can't detect alpha radiation with a Geiger counter? Really? Makes me wonder what I have been detecting all these years. Alpha is the easiest. Mr Vialls is also obviously unaware of daughter products from fission, too. it's those that cause the radioactivity, not the plutonium or uranium. Ah, and 99.something% pure Pu239. Now that is clever. I wonder how they managed to do that?

Skeptic, the man who thinks DU weapons are harmless!!!

... and before [he] starts on again ...

 http://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/abom/uran/index_e.html

No idea about the alpha particle no show ... much much more to it than that, the article runs to several thousand words, embedded with numerous links ... can't hurt to have a butchers ... that's if its alright with skeptic et al?

No! Wonder why?

Now ...

Here are some links which will help in deciding how far you bullshit meter tips and how you can analyse the veracity of the info put before you:

How to talk propa:

 http://www.nobeliefs.com/eprime.htm

How the game is played (very good for understanding how to hide the obvious):

 http://www.gametheory.net/html/books.html

How 'they' play the game:

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/metasystems/GB/SilentWeaponsGB.html
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

Conspirator ... moi?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy

So ... was the yellow cake uranium a conspiracy?

Was the WMD fiasco?

Was the downing street memos?

What about the Unicol documents and the invasion of Afghanistan/

The pre-arranged plan to invade iraq ... whatever?

Lets scan back a bit and the assertion that steel framed buildings do not suffer structural collapse due to the effect of fire on the steelwork.

I have a simple question.

If this is the case, why do the building regulations within the UK and every other western country require significant amounts of fire protection around structural steelwork and is it therefore to be assumed that not just the 11/9 investigators but the entire construction industry has been duped into believing that such expensive measures are necessary?

And since I have criticised others for not posting links in the past, and purely as a representative example:

 http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/br/brx-04.asp

 http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/br/brd-03.asp#d2

see for yourself:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

"Critics have attempted to attribute an alleged increase in the rate of birth defects in the children of Gulf War veterans and in Iraqis to depleted uranium. A report written by an Irish petrochemical engineer stated that in Iraq, death rates per 1000 Iraqi children under 5 years of age increased from 2.3 in 1989 to 16.6 in 1993 and cases of leukaemia have more than quadrupled in areas where DU was present. Dr Richard Guthrie, an expert in chemical warfare at Sussex University, argues that due to the fact that no pathological evidence exists linking depleted uranium to birth defects, a more likely cause for this increase in birth defects was the Iraqi Army’s use of mustard agents during its war with Iran. Sulphur mustard is also known to cause cancers, leukaemias and birth defects, even for relatively low exposures levels. The children of the residents of Halabja as well as those of Iranian veterans of the Iran Iraq war have developed cancers and birth defects. Neither groups had been exposed to depleted uranium, but both groups had been exposed to sulfur mustard agents.

Further studies by the New England Journal of Medicine analyzing 34,000 babies of Gulf War veterans [5], as well as by the Department of Veterans Affairs [6] found no evidence of an increase in the risk of birth defects among the children of Gulf War veterans.

The Uranium Medical Research Centre in Canada and the United States published a study of 27 Gulf War veterans [7] displaying typical symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome. Of the 27, only those who had DU fragments lodged in their bodies showed any sign of DU in their urine. The Department of Veterans Affairs study had found that in a sample of veterans who did have DU fragments in their body, all showed normal reproductive health and kidney function."

You've just shot down jackshit!

Steel framed buildings are indeed vulnerable to fire. And 100 tonnes of aviation fuel is quite a good accelerant. But you don't need to melt the steel.

Bombs As Plants?

Ignore the Downing Street Minutes, the LIES that lead to an illegal war of aggression for profit in Iraq, a war that is now being lost by "Coalition" forces, Karl Rove/Dick Cheney's TREASONOUS leak of a CIA operative, the Mossad agents in the Pentagon's OSP & AIPAC, and calls for IMPEACHMENT, investigation, and prosecution.

Keep your eyes fixed upon "ze terrorists" ...

Since none of 7/21's devices exploded, despite their detonators being triggered, and the LIAR Blair says that this stroke of luck will provide investigators with forensic evidence which will help to identify the culprits, does it not stand to reason that these were possibly intended as plants? It seems that care went into ensuring that nobody was hurt, but that this "orgy of evidence" was left for investigators.

The devices used on 7/7 contained military explosives, but much work has gone into flushing that fact down the Memory Hole, as seen in the "Egyptian Chemist" fable. The media SHOUTED this man's guilt, then very quietly retracted the story. No doubt many people still believe his involvement was proven.

The police used explosives in the apartment of one of the people being blamed for 7/7, thus contaminating the scene, then tarped the area off entirely.

No CCTV footage caught the bombers in the act, and we're supposed to believe what a pack of LIARS say, again without any independently-verifiable evidence, as was the case with "911".

Police claim that a Brazillian man, shot seven times in the head by a still-unidentified person, was suspected of involvement, and was being tailed by police. Witnesses report several unidentified men, alleged to be plainclothes police officers, looking around a tube car and station for the man. Once found, the men shouted "We've got him!", shoved him inside the tube, where he fell to the ground, then they shot him eight times.

Since so much of the Government/Police's story has now proven to be false, and with no CCTV to support their story, it is conceivable that this electrician may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, and inadvertently caught intelligence operatives planting the devices.

Based upon statements about the weight this "evidence" will carry in ensuing investigations, it seems like the day's devices were left behind by someone eager to frame a certain target, and point investigators in a specific direction, possibly towards one of the PNAC target countries.

I'm not saying that I know this for a fact, it simply fits a certain pattern and tactic which HAS been employed in the past.

If it turns out that these devices do point to Iran, Syria, etc., I simply would hope that people will THINK about the lack of independently-verifiable evidence, such as video images of any of the men, before they rush to believe what a pack of proven LIARS wants them to think, based solely upon this "Orgy of Evidence".

Especially if those LIARS attempt to use this as an excuse to wage another war that they've already got planned and at the ready.

how bout this one. four average muslims one day decide to travel to London with the express purpose of blowing themselves as well as others on a train - all at the same time. Yeah, that makes sense. Completely logically explanation.

Or how about this one: Iraq possesses WMD that are pointed at the UK.

The main purpose of all these posts is to discredit those who genuinely oppose those policies that have fuelled the discontent which leads to such acts of terrorism.

Think about it. By promoting the conspiracy theories on sites such as this you marginalise and discredit your opponents by sterotyping them as part of the lunatic fringe and discredit those seek to promote an altenative polical vision of the world.

Also as an added bonus so much time and enegry is wasted in debating the conspiracies that could be better employed in actually focusing on the real issues such as West’s Policies in the Middle East and elsewhere that got us into this mess in the first place.

... it seems that skeptic et als intense training in forensic investigation, structural engineering & material science has defeated all attempts ...

.. to what?

Perhaps [he] can now list all the other steel framed buildings that have dramatically collapsed within hours following fire???

No??

Ah yes, there aren't any!!!

I suppose the next best thing, would be to attempt to blind the readership with a bit of science ... you know, pull the 'I know better than you, look here at these impressive graphs (that someone else produced, probably for a compleatly different set of questions/parametres)' trick ...

Still doesn't address the other questions though does it?

To the rest of you (if there are any!!!) - follow the links given, find some of your own, ask your own questions, think for yourself ... don't rely on me (a conspiracy loon) or skeptic[s] (a scientist of immense repute - hence the need for total anonimity!!!).

The seismic blips, the janitors story, the 'false' drills, the indistructable passports, the ready in waiting 10 000 page patriot document, the unicol 'arrangement' for afghanistans resources ... on and on and on the questions go ...

Where is the steel that will settle the argument? ... because as every (even poor) scientist will tell you, the evidence lies embedded within its molecular structure ...

Ah yes, rapidly dissapeared. Convienient or coincidence?

Thank god (the white one) that we are under attack by thos evil muslims that hate our freedoms and want to ... drop 2000 pound bombs on our women and children whilt they eat in a popular family cafe (oh wait, sorry, that was us) ...

The info on DU:

 http://www.umrc.net/du_and_ndu.aspx
 http://www.umrc.net/facts_and_fictions.aspx
 http://www.thefourreasons.org/duresources.htm

You really are a useless fuckwit, and if you were standing here now, I'm afraid that i would lose whatever control I had and knock two tons of shit from your useless offensive lying mouth .. still such a poor (but human) response would not help her:

OK folks,

Here's the basic Physics lesson -
1) Bombs do not explode completely instantaneously
2) Bombs are heavy, and subject to the laws of gravity

So imagine the bomb exploding in slow motion. A ball of fire and destruction starts at the bomb and grows outwards in all directions. One of the first things that happens is that the bomb punches a hole in the floor of the train, which it is in contact with. Gravity then immediately acts on the bomb (ie it doesn't float in mid-air), and it falls downwards whilst it is still exploding. Therefore the bomb will actually have finished exploding under the train, causing people to see that at Edgware road, and as the ball of fire grows over time, causing the upward impact on the floor of the train at Aldgate.

So, if you like, the bombs did explode under the trains yes, but only because they were pulled there by the force of gravity during the explosion!

Easy when you know isn't it?

jackslucid: "You really are a useless fuckwit, and if you were standing here now, I'm afraid that i would lose whatever control I had and knock two tons of shit from your useless offensive lying mouth ."

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Now you have finally sunk to the lowest common denominator of your intellect and disgraced yourself will you now shut up and sod off to usenet alt.conspiracy at last?

Or are you going to threaten me with a cyberbeating too- biting my nails.

Ooh! Ouch! Argh! Stop it! I give in!!! You're right lizards ARE controlling Tony Blair and Mossad open your mail...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

and again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

The average conspiracy site is far more reliable than the Royal Society or the New England Journal of Medicine, isn't it?

Sorry about posting a graphic from the University of Canterbury. It is in New Zealand, and of course, we know chappies like that don't really know what they're talking about.

Well, pellucid, if all these points are so obvious, so blatant,so staring us in the face, how is it that no real life investigative journalist on any of the world's major newspapers have picked them up? Too stupid? Too brain washed? Leaned on by the FBI? Or just too sensible?

... quite simply, I hate you and all others that would condemn Maryann and MILLIONS of others like her to a slow and painfull death AND then give halfwitted smug replies when faced with the overwhealming view that there IS a debate at the very least, and - the view of many leading 'experts' - that there IS a serious problem in using these disgusting weapons.

That you can succed in winding me up is no suprise - I don't pretend to be a saint (and who said I was a pacifist?), an "expert" or a lizard lover (although gekkos are nice) ... that you want to, reveals more about you than it does me ... for a start, it reveals that you would rather focus on personalities (mine) and spout psuado-pyschology, than focus on issues and generaly spread infomation to the benefit of others.

But it is all good ... a bit of argy bargie in cyberspace, and maybe some might be sufficiently intrieged to follow some of the links provided ... "be your own leader you feeble burke" still quite my favourite graffiti ever ...

... and no, I don't intend to play the 'my sources have more gravitas than yours' ...
if you think that the Royal Society or the New England Journal of Medicine hold more sway on your thinking than, say, The Federation of American Scientists then say so (w/ links) instead of postulating a ridiculous straw man arguement ("The average conspiracy site is far more reliable than the Royal Society or the New England Journal of Medicine, isn't it?")

... Random link about DU:

 http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/NewsArticle.cfm?NewsID=50

... and, well, GCSE Physics Student ... I don't know who you are, I do know that I would put more weight behind you statements if you provided sourced material and a few 'experts' in the field - like, say,

 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/ok9.htm

... or do we have to rely on ad hoc theories in lue of serious questions asked and investigated in the public eye?

... because that is what at issue here, not my theories or your theories, but the climate of yellow journalism, corporate news and a climate of ridicule and censor ... that operates even[sic] here ...

But relax ... last random link:

 http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Kissinger_Associates%2C_Inc.

Being opposed to your, sorry, other people's crackpot theories does not mean we are pro war or even buying the official version: we just think "your" version is pitifully stupid.

Are *we* the "sheeple" (note the deumhanisation of anyone different to you) for not supping down all the frothy pish that commercial conspiracists like Aled Jones pumps out? We are hateful just because we don't want to buy your bloody bible!?

I think most people here have had enough of evangelists in their lives. You display all the petulance of a Born Again: you throw tantrums when people suggest the world may not be the way you wish it to be. And worse you threaten violence when you are losing your argument. Methinks you are getting close to realising that we are not as gullible as you are or you may think we are. Being made to face your own delusions too painfull?

The truth is that no person on this site knows very much about what happened on 7/7. The apparent gaps in evidence aren't proven, because the case hasn't even been presented to the CPS for anyone directly involved!!! There is no "Warren Report" at this moment in time and to be honest I doubt there will be. Everyone, I mean bloody EVERYONE knew Hutton would be a whitewash... so don't make us out to be stupid. Just because Blair is a lying shit doesn't mean that we believe him, but more importantly doesn't mean that your tosh is any moe palatable.

For you to insinuate that our not buying the DU/GWS (there are many theories on what caused GWS) means we wish disease on children is the most revealing thing you have posted. You are just a bitter twisted little propagandist and no better than lying little shits like Blair/Campbell/Bush/Rumsfeld/Rove= you will plumb *any* depths to gain support for your hate campaign.

Go join the BNP where tactics like yours are appreciated and stop dragging this site down to the level of Infowar$. You are not challenged anything or anyone, because you are just a sad arse.

I strongly recommend you see a psychiatrist in the near future. And that really isn't a snide remark.

... quite simply, / /// /// and all others that would condemn Maryann and MILLIONS of others like her to a slow and painfull death AND then give halfwitted smug replies when faced with the overwhealming view that there IS a debate at the very least, and - the view of many leading 'experts' - that there IS a serious problem in using these disgusting weapons.

That you can succed in winding me up is no suprise - I don't pretend to be a saint (and who said I was a pacifist?), an "expert" or a lizard lover (although gekkos are nice) ... that you want to, reveals more about you than it does me ... for a start, it reveals that you would rather focus on personalities (mine) and spout psuado-pyschology, than focus on issues and generaly spread infomation to the benefit of others.

But it is all good ... a bit of argy bargie in cyberspace, and maybe some might be sufficiently intrieged to follow some of the links provided ... "be your own leader you feeble burke" still quite my favourite graffiti ever ...

... and no, I don't intend to play the 'my sources have more gravitas than yours' ...
if you think that the Royal Society or the New England Journal of Medicine hold more sway on your thinking than, say, The Federation of American Scientists then say so (w/ links) instead of postulating a ridiculous straw man arguement ("The average conspiracy site is far more reliable than the Royal Society or the New England Journal of Medicine, isn't it?")

... Random link about DU:

 http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/NewsArticle.cfm?NewsID=50

... and, well, GCSE Physics Student ... I don't know who you are, I do know that I would put more weight behind you statements if you provided sourced material and a few 'experts' in the field - like, say,

 http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/ok9.htm

... or do we have to rely on ad hoc theories in lue of serious questions asked and investigated in the public eye?

... because that is what at issue here, not my theories or your theories, but the climate of yellow journalism, corporate news and a climate of ridicule and censor ... that operates even[sic] here ...

But relax ... last random link:

 http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Kissinger_Associates%2C_Inc.

... on the personality ...

... plenty of links for those who will try 'em ...

Aplogies for the repeated post - too quick off the mark (knew what was coming!).

Sorry Tony but this one is a bit weak, you can't really be expecting to buuild a case on the strength of what a couple of dazed bomb victims said.
But the arguments against are very interesting, plenty of one liners most of them bring to mind the old "if wit was shit you'd be constipated" gag one or two perhaps have a twinkling of humour.
Then there's Magoo and the resident IMC rotarians with Septic in the running for grand master.
They make it plain that there experience at the sharp end of what real world is very close to zero and more over most of that is gleaned from the corporate Sunday press.
Not surprising that the latest Corporate watch news letter mentions the fact that britains biggest hight street heroin bank was founded on the proceeds from selling and refining heroin.
 http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=1874
Also not such a big surprises that the good folks of Bayer, same people that are going to grow all our delicious GM food, , patented heroin in late 19th century.  http://opioids.com/heroin/heroinhistory.html
Heroin still makes the world go round !!!
Whats that got to do with the war on terror ? you might well ask GW and his northern alliance.
Of course the british goverment is doing all it can to stop the flow of heroin out of Afghanistan they have
one sniffer dog in the whole country, according to the BBC doc screened last sunday week.
Now if you want to see just what the NWO is capable of you should take a look at post WW2 Italy presently under the control of masonic lodge P2 member Silvio Berluscone, better known as arch money launderer and mafia boss. His old mate Licio Gelli, grand master of the P2, was the dude who sold the Exocets to the argies they used them to good effect and sunk the Sheffield and Coventry with large loss of (british) life.
Licio Gelli was also a big player in Gladio (Italy) which has offices throughout europe although to date the UK office has not come to light.

P2 is the "fratelli neri" Black friars and Calvi was found under the Bridge, of course the City of London cops helped with the cover up and while the Italian press claimed that the british authorities would not help with the enquiry the british press claimed the same for the italians .
Four go on trial for murder of God's banker

John Hooper and Philip Willan in Rome
 http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/trial.html

Twenty five years on and the Italian press is still pretty much divided on who actually placed the bomb in Bologna, the left wing press lays the blame on the extreme right (ie the italian government) and the right wing press lays the blame on the extreme left Red brigade or what ever you like to call them.
If you read up on the kidnapping of Aldo Moro you will also find out that the Red brigades were controlled by the Italian Government.
Phillip Willan's "Strategy of Tension" goes quite a way to explain what the Italian government was up to 25 years ago, he of course would never make the same claims about the present goverment he is still the gaurdians correspondent in Rome.
Ex-President George H. Bush accused of war crimes and political killings
 http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/bush_war_criminal.htm

Of course behind the whole plot was the CIA and the Americans who kept the DC in power when in fact the PCI sould have actually been running the country.
But then again if the Bush dynasty had not helped arm Hitler / IG Farben then we would not have had WW2 and then the Americans would not have had a foot in Europe. Then we could have made peace instead of substituting Russia for Germany we could have had a real peace and then there would not have been so much anti American feeling right after the war and the U.S would not have needed to get Prins Bernard to hold the first Bilderber meeting. Then there would have been no cold war no arms race and no need to replace the cold war with the phoney war on terror and perhaps we would not be in the mess that we are in today. The people who are running the world have no scruples, the proceeds of flooding the UK with heroin will be put to work the same as the proceeds of flooding half the world with Cocaine.

I don't believe for a minute that the bombs were placed under the trains, I am sure the official version of events is pretty accurate it's not what they say it's what they don't say that counts.
Who is paying for and organizing the whole operation that is the 100 ton of Heroin question ...

What is this?

Amature psychology hour?

Fuck off back to the station and stop bothering the good people here.

Surely there is some crime to solve for you columbos!

Or else try contributing something of value rather than attempting to pick off other users.

"But then again if the Bush dynasty had not helped arm Hitler / IG Farben then we would not have had WW2 and then the Americans would not have had a foot in Europe. Then we could have made peace instead of substituting Russia for Germany we could have had a real peace and then there would not have been so much anti American feeling right after the war and the U.S would not have needed to get Prins Bernard to hold the first Bilderber meeting. Then there would have been no cold war no arms race"

Granpappy Bush started the Second World War. Re-armed Germany all by himself. Why did we never notice this before, I wonder.

LMFAO! You call spamming this place with paranoid drivel a valuable contribution...

Again, for your sock puppet, just because I don't buy this crap means I buy any old crap... at least I don't blame my farts on the CIA/Mossad/Freemasonry/Bilderberg et al.

I'm confused. Isn't Sceptic saying the same as me regarding steel? Ah well...

Anyway, don't you just love those "whatneverhappened" links? Good, reliable, comedy value.

when magoo and his mate get agitated. Speaks volumes...

Check out who's who amongst this bunch of MF's and tell I man whats occuring ..
have a quick look round the rest the rest of the site ..
see also  http://www.orderofmalta.org/struttura.asp?idlingua=5
you can pick your lingo ...they can lay it on you any way you like ..

 http://www.opm.gov.mt/om_honappointments.htm

Honorary Appointments to the National Order of Merit

Honorary Companions of Honour - with Collar
As approved by Legal Notice No. 178 of 7/12/94
H.E. Dr Árpád Göncz, K.U.O.M. 09.02.95
H.M.E.H. Frà Andrew W.N. Bertie, K.U.O.M. 14.06.95
H.E. Oscar Luigi Scalfaro, K.U.O.M. 16.11.95
H.M. Queen Elizabeth II, K.U.O.M. 23.10.00
H.E. Peter Stoyanov, K.U.O.M. 12.03.01
H.E. Lennart Meri, K.U.O.M. 26.04.01
H.E. D.Dr.h.c. Johannes Rau, K.U.O.M. 02.11.01
H.E. Prof. Dr Rexhep Meidani, K.U.O.M. 18.02.02
H.E. Constantinos Stephanopoulos, K.U.O.M. 05.09.02
H.E. Glafkos Clerides, K.U.O.M. 05.09.02
H.E. Milan Ku?an, K.U.O.M. 07.10.02
H.E. Aleksander Kwa?niewski, K.U.O.M. 25.10.02
H.E. Arnold Rüütel, K.U.O.M. 01.10.03
H.E. Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, K.U.O.M. 20.01.04
H.E. Colonel Muammar El-Gaddhafi, K.U.O.M. 07.02.04
H.E. Prof. Vaira V??e-Freiberga, K.U.O.M. 16.02.04
H.H. Sheikh Jaber Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah, K.U.O.M. 14.03.04
H.E. Ion Iliescu, K.U.O.M. 03.10.04
H.E. Tassos Papadopoulos, K.U.O.M. 17.02.05
Honorary Companions of Honour
H.E. Dr Richard Von Weizsacker, K.U.O.M. 22.10.90
H.E. Dr George Vassiliou, K.U.O.M. 28.06.91
H.E. Professor Francesco Cossiga, K.U.O.M. 18.09.91
H.M. Queen Elizabeth II, K.U.O.M. 28.05.92
H.E. Baron Felice Catalano di Melilli, K.U.O.M. 08.10.92
H.E. Oscar Luigi Scalfaro, K.U.O.M. 11.10.93
H.E. Dr Egon Klepsh, K.U.O.M. 25.03.94
H.E. Dr Mario Soares, K.U.O.M. 09.10.94
H.Emm. Cardinal Angelo Sodano, K.U.O.M. 04.02.95
H.E. Count Don Carlo Marullo di Condojanni, K.U.O.M. 13.01.00
H.E. Toomas Savi, K.U.O.M. 30.04.01
H.E. Mart Laar, K.U.O.M. 30.04.01
H.E. Frau Christina Rau, K.U.O.M. 05.11.01
H.E. Gerhard Schröder, K.U.O.M. 05.11.01
H.E. Wolfgang Thierse, K.U.O.M. 05.11.01
H.E. Mrs Jolanta Kwa?niewska, K.U.O.M. 25.10.02
H.E. Leszek Miller, K.U.O.M. 25.10.02
H.E. Longin Pastusiak, K.U.O.M. 25.10.02
H.E. Marek Borowski, K.U.O.M. 25.10.02
H.E. Constantinos Simitis, K.U.O.M. 14.11.02
H.E. Apostolos Kaklamanis, K.U.O.M. 14.11.02
Senator Marcello Pera, K.U.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Pierferdinando Casini, K.U.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Silvio Berlusconi, K.U.O.M. 20.01.04
Honorary Companions with Breast Star
As approved by Legal Notice No. 162 of 14/11/95
Dr Vittorio Janelli, K.O.M. 28.12.95
Dr Gaetano Scelba, K.O.M. 28.12.95
Prof. Vincenzo Sammartino, K.O.M. 28.12.95
Mr Michele Cosentino, K.O.M. 28.12.95
H.E. Frà Ludwig Hoffman von Rumerstein, K.O.M. 13.01.00
H.E. Albrecht Freiherr von Boeselager, K.O.M. 13.01.00
H.E. Marquis Gian Luca Chiavari, K.O.M. 13.01.00
H.E. Don Sforza Ruspoli, K.O.M. 24.05.00
H.E. Roumen Hristov, K.O.M. 30.03.01
H.E. Ilia Lazarov, K.O.M. 30.03.01
Mrs Aino Lepik von Wirèn, K.O.M. 30.04.01
Mr Walter Karschies, K.O.M. 05.11.01
Dr Wolfgang Schultheiss, K.O.M. 05.11.01
Mr Michael Steiner, K.O.M. 05.11.01
Dr Klaus Erich Scharioth, K.O.M. 05.11.01
Mr Busso von Alvensleben, K.O.M. 05.11.01
Mr Pantelis Kouros, K.O.M. 04.10.02
Mr Jan Truszezynski, K.O.M. 25.10.02
Mr Andrzej Majkowski, K.O.M. 25.10.02
Mr Heike Loot, K.O.M. 01.10.03
Squad Admiral Sergio Biraghi, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Prefect Alberto Ruffo, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Arrigo Levi, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Francesco Alfonso, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Paolo Peluffo, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Prof Louis Godart , K.O.M. 20.01.04
Prof Gianfranco Mazzuoli, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Ambassador Giovanni Castellaneta, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Min. Plen. Cesare Maria Ragaglini, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Min. Plen. Giampiero Massolo, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Min. Plen. Paolo Pucci di Benisichi, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Min. Plen. Umberto Lucchesi Palli, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Roberto Formigoni, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Gabriele Albertini, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Salvatore Cuffaro, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Mr Guido Lo Porto, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Honorary Companions
H.E. Count Don Carlo Marullo di Condojanni, K.O.M. 08.10.92
Dr Alberto Bernardes Costa, K.O.M. 10.10.94
Dr Alfredo Duarte Costa, K.O.M. 10.10.94
Dr Mario Ruivo, K.O.M. 10.10.94
Dr Estrela Serrano, K.O.M. 10.10.94
Mr Baltazar Ferreira, K.O.M. 10.10.94
Dr Alberto Cerqueira di Oliveira, K.O.M. 10.10.94
Mr Gaetano Cortese, K.O.M. 28.12.95
Mr Pasquale Terraciano, K.O.M. 28.12.95
H.E. Ambassador Dr Francesco Guariglia, K.O.M. 13.01.00
H.E. Prince Don Paolo F. Boncompagni Ludovisi, K.O.M. 13.01.00
Mrs Nery Terzieva, K.O.M. 30.03.01
Mr Indrek Tarand, K.O.M. 30.04.01
Mr Uno Lõhmus, K.O.M. 30.04.01
Mr Christodoulos Pasiardis, K.O.M. 04.10.02
Mr Christos Patsalides, K.O.M. 04.10.02
Mr Alexandros Zenon, K.O.M. 04.10.02
Hon. John Beveratos, K.O.M. 14.11.02
Hon. Theodoros Sotiropoulos, K.O.M. 14.11.02
H.E. Danae-Madeleine Koumanakou, K.O.M. 14.11.02
Mr Dimitrios Avramopoulos, K.O.M. 14.11.02
Mr Tarmo Mänd, K.O.M. 01.10.03
Mr Toomas Luman, K.O.M. 01.10.03
Mr Raul Mälk, K.O.M. 01.10.03
Min. Plen. Michele Valensise, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Filippo Romano, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Counsellor Maria Letizia Puglisi, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Massimo Sgrelli, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Counsellor Giovanni Maria Veltroni, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Sebastiano Cardi, K.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Pietro Sebastiani, K.O.M. 20.01.04
H. E. Mr J?nis L?sis, K.O.M.16.02.04
Ambassador M?rti?? Perts K.O.M. 16.02.04
Mr M?rti?? Bondars K.O.M. 16.02.04
Ambassador Tasos Tzionis, K.O.M. 17.02.05
Ambassador Athena Mavronicolas, K.O.M. 17.02.05
Honorary Officers
Lt. Col. Vasco Travassos Valdez, U.O.M. 10.10.94
Mr Pier Attinio Forlano, U.O.M. 28.12.95
Ms Antonella Uneddu, U.O.M. 28.12.95
Mr Michele di gianni, U.O.M. 21.09.96
Mr Joachim Hietzig, U.O.M. 21.09.96
Mr John M. Louisides, U.O.M. 21.09.96
Mr Otto Techau, U.O.M. 21.09.96
Mr Charles Vassallo, U.O.M. 21.09.96
Prof. Alain Blondy, U.O.M. 31.03.98
Mr Vernon R. Loucks Jr, U.O.M. 31.03.98
Eng. Pasquale Pistorio, U.O.M. 31.03.98
Rear Admiral Roberto Baggioni, U.O.M. 13.12.00
Mr Yaroslav Golev, U.O.M. 30.03.01
Mr Vladimir Kissyov, U.O.M. 30.03.01
Mr Dimitar Tzanchev, U.O.M. 30.03.01
Mr Andrus Ansip, U.O.M. 30.04.01
H.E. Toivo Tasa, U.O.M. 30.04.01
Mr Werner Wnendt, U.O.M. 05.11.01
Ms Gudrun Maria Sräga, U.O.M. 05.11.01
Dr Ursula Freifrau von Langermann, U.O.M. 05.11.01
Prof Dr.h.c. Viktor Dulger, U.O.M. 13.12.01
Mr Eugene F. Loveland, U.O.M. 21.09.02
Mr Constantin Rallis, U.O.M. 14.11.02
Prof. Quentin Hughes, U.O.M. 13.12.02
Mr Branco Lustig, U.O.M. 13.12.02
Prof. Herbert Michael Gilles, U.O.M. 13.12.03
Mr M?ris Rieksti??, U.O.M. 16.02.04
Mr Gundars Boj?rs, U.O.M. 16.02.04
Dr David Trump, U.O.M. 13.12.04
Honorary Members
Colonel Basilio Rampulla, M.O.M. 20.01.93
Dr Luiz de Albuquerque Veloso, M.O.M. 10.10.94
Mr Americo Ferreira, M.O.M. 10.10.94
Mr Guenter Merten, M.O.M. 13.12.95
Lt. Col. Edoardo Girone, M.O.M. 28.12.95
Capt. Giorgio Pieraccini, M.O.M. 28.12.95
Mr Noel Judd, M.O.M. 21.09.96
Mr Jean Bechara, M.O.M. 31.03.98
Comm. Dr Alfred Klima, M.O.M. 31.03.98
Mr Paul Rudolf Kraemer, M.O.M. 31.03.98
Chev. Joseph Stephen Micallef, M.O.M. 31.03.98
Mr Terry Muscat, M.O.M. 31.03.98
Sen. Mrs Hannetraud Schultheiss, M.O.M. 31.03.98
Mrs Janatha Stubbs, M.O.M. 13.12.98
Dr Giorgio Bonsanti, M.O.M. 15.06.99
Prof. Guido Clemente, M.O.M. 15.06.99
Mr Ivan Magri-Overend, M.O.M. 13.12.99
Prof. Dr Helga Reimann, M.O.M. 13.12.99
Mr Peter Stoyanovitch, M.O.M. 30.03.01
Dr Toomas Kiho, M.O.M. 30.04.01
Ms Riina Tõnn, M.O.M. 30.04.01
Mr Norbert Schyja, M.O.M. 05.11.01
Ms Heike Nagora, M.O.M. 05.11.01
Dr Paolo U. Cosulich, M.O.M. 21.09.02
Mr Ahmad Houboubati, M.O.M. 21.09.02
Dr Giorgio Vincenzini, M.O.M. 21.09.02
Mr Nearchos Palas, M.O.M. 04.10.02
Mrs Elengo Rangou, M.O.M. 04.10.02
Mr Antonios Pavlidis, M.O.M. 14.11.02
Dr Daniela D’Orlandi, M.O.M. 20.01.04
Dr Antonio Cazzella, M.O.M. 20.01.04
M.llo Luigi Pisciotta, M.O.M. 20.01.04
Mr Andrejs Pildegovi?s, M.O.M. 16.02.04
Ambassador K?rlis Eihenbaums, M.O.M. 16.02.04
Mr Elpidoforos Economou 17.02.05
Mr Charalambos Michael 17.02.05

thanks for the info: more evidence that there may not have been any suicide bombers.

'The witnesses in the second incidents all said that backpacks were involved - only the detonators went off, but the bombers were injured by the blasts. One witness even asked the perp if he was OK!

How can that be called a copycat attack if the first bombs were under the train? '
=================================================

because the copycats did not know the bombs were under the train.....they thought like you do that the bombs were in back packs carried aboard. They also read newspapers.

Steel may well lose some of its stregth when its temperature approaches its melting point, however it is also a very good conductor of heat: therefore in order to weaken a large (many thousands of tons) body of steel sufficiently to induce failure would need many times the order of magnitude of [heat] energy put into the system than a few hundred tons of rapidly burning kerosene (dispersed most noticable in the initial fireball).

That the fires were buring in the basements is under some doubt - both from eye witness accounts (NY fire dept) and from the evidence of the amount of black (ineffiecient burning) smoke produced.

It is highly unlikely - not to say a little contrived - to suggest that this amount of heat energy could induce the first known structual failure in a steel framed building, in the short time it was exposed to it (just over 1 hour!).

As for the contention that a exploding device is capable of boring through sheet metal and then falling sufficently far before its explosive reaction has ceased AND causing additional deformations in the metal (against gravity) - well that belongs in the realms of fantasy!

It is a little weird to have to point out such obvious scientific analysis within a thread supposedly dominated by those crowing about there scientific credentials - perhaps a little thinking before posting might help (if that indeed is their purpose!)

... on the collapse of the WTC, with a reference to the potential for explosive deformation of metals (ie relivant to the issue of whether the direction of deformation can be reversed from that expected by conventional analysis):

 http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html

... Taken from the excellent site:

 http://www.physics911.net/index.htm

A short piece on the disposal[sic] of the evidence:

 http://securitysolutions.com/ar/security_gps_job_massive/

All penned by foaming at the mouth conspiracy freaks - recently abducted by six foot lizards to boot ... so ignore!

Cocaine and Heroin fuel for me War and more

Sir Francis Drake


The main aim for anyone posting on IMC should be to avoid the the critical review panel and not get involved in personal slagging matches where one line comments are the order of the day and IMC might as well be the Rupert Murdogs Sun or Times.
It’s obvious by the comments that the critical review panel are badly informed about current events but also more important have no idea about history other than what is taught at school.

War is a real bummer for ordinary folk and anyone who is caught up in it but it is a time of plenty for those who who invest in it. Like we are talking about the banker who lends a King the loot to pay for a mercenary army in order to invade his next door neighbour.
Or maybe go on a crusade to the so called Holy Lands.
The war on Terror is no different certain banks, bankers, arms dealers/ manufactures owners will make millions then there are all the Politicians coming through with their good commissions and of course there is a mountain of loot in security.
Like the Rothschilds have been funding wars from time, they sponsored wellington and they also funded both sides during the first and second wars and the Medici before them were lending money to English Kings to go to war with.
Of course septic is dead right grandaddy bush(prescott) did not single handily arm Hitler lots of people made loads of lolly arming the Nazis.
When Septic says “we didn’t know this is he referring to the royal we ? or perhaps the masonic we ? or is it just a group thang ?
War is the best business on the planet and the Opium wars which Britain waged against China were probably the best ever, who knows.
Plenty of other people profited from the WW2 in rather strange ways, through a complicated arrangement with the germans Standard Oil (SO) better known as Esso profited and earned a percentage on the oil the german bombers used to fly to London
and bomb the working class areas of the city. The brits also only bombed the working class areas of Hamburg, although Dresden was not so lucky.
Standard oil was broken up during the war but is now back together again as Exxon.
In Europe we talk about WW1 and 2 as if they were the only wars of the 20th century
but apart from the Vietnam and Korean Wars there America and britain were fucking with umpteen states throughout the whole 100 years. Chile, Granada, Indonesia where uncle sam supplied a list of all those that were to be bumped off.
I mean it’s not always necessary to physically invade a country some of the smaller banana republix can be bought and sold for the price of a large corporate yacht or maybe a corporation , bus fare compared to what a full scale invasion would cost.
But obviously to get the full benefit out of ones arms purchases one needs to fire in a few cluster bombs, whoops I mean of course precision armaments.
Just because our A10 tank busters were actually more effective busting tractors full of refugees in Kosovo just means we will be a bit more careful about which images we release to the press in future. Like in Iraq you don’t see that kind of stuff , simply because we don’t let you ..

I myself was a Corsair or privateer which meant that I could do as I pleased and was free to rob and plunder on the high seas in the style accustomed to a gentleman of good breeding. Any prizes (ships) that i captured were mine even if they were captured right under the Admirals flag I never paid him his dues.
The Skull and Bones that all the young punko anarchists adopt as there sign is certainly a sign of freedom, but it refers to the ruling classes freedom to rape and pillage.
The founder of the Russell foundation was also another who used it on his opium laden ships and no surprise that he owned the land that Yale was built on and hence the Skull and Bones (322) club that both Bush and Kerry are members of.
During the Vietnam war the Smack was smuggled out of the region in body bags there were a lot of them coming out of South East Asia at the time. yep where there’s war there’s contraband. Catch 22 was factual fiction , there were plenty of Colonel Cathcart’s dotted around the war zone all busy shipping out art treasures and dealing in anything that could earn a shilling. The old guy who hit him in the eye with the rose he threw at him was dead right , he cheered when the germans arrived and he cheered ...
The fact is that they need wars. The time of the Iran / Iraq war was probably the biggest bonanza that the arms dealing hounds have ever had.
At the time Saddam was the hero of the west and he was going to rid the world of the Iranian menace and it was cool even if he used illegal weapons nerve gas and the like cos it was all supplied to him by us. But to make a good war of it the yaKKKees had to
make sure Iran was up for it so they (not so) secretly supplied arms to Iran.
But to do this they had to ship tons of Cocaine out of Colombia and Peru and into staging posts in Panama and Costa Rica , I was there at the time.
Costa Rica does not have an army and is basically a retirement home for yanks who want to live with younger Tico women. Dole and other big corporations run the place and of course there are plenty of special op’s / CIA types floating about to oversee the operation. At the time Panama was ruled over by ex CIA employee general Noriega
perhaps septic and the lodge knew about that he used to work for Daddy Bush or is that just conspiracy theory twaddle to the IMC rotary club luncheon club lodge.
Noriega wanted too bigger cut and the canal treaty was up so he had to go along with a good few thousand innocent panamanians in the poor slum areas.

So it’s not so much sex and drugs and rock n’ roll as War and Drugs and Perverts .
But you would need to ask Colin Wallace about that and the Kincora boys home the shoot to kill policy , Michael Tighe gunned down in a barn in Northern Ireland that had a tape machine running . then Stalker and Lord Godmanchester .
Anthony Blunt and the upper classes on tour in Ireland abusing young boys.
So lets say for the ruling classes War and drugs and child abuse are very good indeed!
of course the U.S/ UK crusaders raped loads of Iraqi woman and boys , not only at Abu Gharib but through out the whole country it’s perfectly normal and accepted as the spoils of war. In the old days the victorious army would rape all the camp followers of the losing army and nothing has changed in the 21st century.
All the goodies from the cradle of civilisation were carried off back to the culture less USA and this will be the way it will continue.
So despite the fact that we consider that this is a time of peace and no one has actually invaded our western dream world we are at war and our civil rights are being cut back.
We will continue to lose are basic human rights and by the time that most of the sheeple realize it will be too late to do anything . So while a small percent of the population will still be driving around in 250hp BMW’s Jags and Merc’s the rest will be chipped canon fodder who will not be able to fart with out the local council knowing about it.
Your credit will be on your chip which magoo and co will no doubt find handy cos it saves time at the supermarket check out, that is of course if your credit is good.
Funny that the guy who basically invented chemical weapons during WW1 , Karl Duisberg, after the war they became pesticides. Now his company is ready to be the main supplier of (GM) food in the UK . The same people who invented Heroin Bayer that is. They also introduced force labour during WW1 .
That’s enough about War and heroin time to check out how the cricket is going ..

... is a very wonderful thing. And anyone can set up their own site, and say exactly what they want on it. I have some sites of my own [no, I'm not telling you], and on them, I write what I want and upload. The snag is there is no one to check it. It might be complete and utter drivel. It might be the next breakthrough in modern thinking. But there's no reality or reliablity check.

That is the problem with citing sites as 'proof' of some point of view.

Some sites, of course, do have to make sure they get things right - university sites [altho I've found erors in those].

The other thing that strikes one about ... well let us be polite and call them contrarian sites is that somewhere, either out in the open, or deeper down, there will be pages which blame whatever it is - 9/11, 7/7/, whatever - on 'Zionists' or 'Israelis'. Never Muslims, never Iranians, never Saddam - always 'Israelis', 'neocons' [and we all know that's code for shhhh ... 'jews'!] Oh, and Bush and his grandfather.

And one other thing - there must be literally millions of qualified architects and structural engineers out there in the world. How come they spot these things? How about the man who designed the Twin Towers? How about the people who built them? Have they stepped forward and said: "This is impossible!"?

Of course, they've been leaned on, haven't they? Sinister Mossad agents again!

Listen septic leave Mossad and jews out of it just check out about Wars and drugs , Skull and Bones and banks. The Russell foundation. Opium smugglers, Bush and I. G Farben, Bush and CIA Noriega, Oliver North.
The Contras original Argentine Mercenaries, Sandino Murdered by Yankkkees.
P2, Gladio, Calvi, banco Ambrosiano, Vatican INC. HSBC heroin bank.
William of Orange and his army of german, Dutch , Danish mercenaries, the battle of the Boyne the start of capitalism. also check out William of Oranges tomb in the old church in Delft , what a lot of skull and bones.
The other church in Delft used to be the church of the Merchant venturers, isnt that what the invasion of Iraq was, a Merchant adventure. See also The Italian Mafia and Freemasonry..
here's a good site to keep a wotch on in the near future www.masonicyouth.com

Luther Blissett


'Fight Smart' Update - 2 August 2005

Don't Take the Bait - Fight Smart
ANIMATED 911 SUMMARY - CLICK HERE
Who is the enemy?

News Flash
John Loftus On Fox TV
Claims London Bombings 'Mastermind'
Is MI6 Double Agent
www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/WATLoftusMI6.htm


John Loftus, Right, On Fox TV
"John Loftus is a terrorism expert and a former prosecutor for the Justice Department."
Fox TV, 29 July 2005

"On FOX News Channel's Day Side [29 July], Terrorism Expert John Loftus revealed that Haroon Rashid Aswat, the suspect wanted by British Police for 'masterminding' the July 7th London bombings and July 21st attempted bombings is in fact an asset of MI6, the British Secret Service. According to Loftus, Aswat has been under the protection of MI6 for many years."
London Bombings Mastermind is MI6 Asset
Infowars.com, Blog Report

"....all these guys should be going back to an organization called Al-Muhajiroun, which means The Emigrants. It was the recruiting arm of Al-Qaeda in London; they specialized in recruiting kids whose families had emigrated to Britain but who had British passports. And they would use them for terrorist work.... the first group of course were primarily Pakistani. But what they had in common was they were all emigrant groups in Britain, recruited by this Al-Muhajiroun group. They were headed by the, Captain Hook, the imam in London the Finsbury Mosque, without the arm. He was the head of that organization. Now his assistant was a guy named Aswat, Haroon Rashid Aswat. Aswat is believed to be the mastermind of all the bombings in London... This is the guy, and what's really embarrassing is that the entire British police are out chasing him, and one wing of the British government, MI6 or the British Secret Service, has been hiding him.... He's a double agent.... Now we knew about this guy Aswat. Back in 1999 he came to America. The Justice Department wanted to indict him in Seattle because him and his buddy were trying to set up a terrorist training school in Oregon..... Well it comes out, we've just learned that the headquarters of the US Justice Department ordered the Seattle prosecutors not to touch Aswat..... apparently Aswat was working for British intelligence.... Some people say that the British intelligence fibbed to us. They told us that Aswat was dead, and that's why the New York group dropped the case. That's not what most of the Justice Department thinks. They think that it was just again covering up for this very publicly affiliated guy with Al-Muhajiroun. He was a British intelligence plant.... Now at this point, two weeks ago, the Brits know that the CIA wants to get a hold of Haroon. So what happens? He takes off again, goes right to London. He isn't arrested when he lands, he isn't arrested when he leaves. ... He's on the watch list. The only reason he could get away with that was if he was working for British intelligence. He was a wanted man.... And [he] goes to Pakistan.... The Pakistanis arrest him. They jail him. He's released within 24 hours. Back to Southern Africa, goes to Zimbabwe and is arrested in Zambia.... What ties all these cells together was, back in the late 1990s, the leaders all worked for British intelligence in Kosovo. Believe it or not, British intelligence actually hired some Al-Qaeda guys to help defend the Muslim rights in Albania and in Kosovo. That's when Al-Muhajiroun got started.....The CIA was funding the operation to defend the Muslims, British intelligence was doing the hiring and recruiting. Now we have a lot of detail on this because Captain Hook, the head of Al-Muhajiroun, [his] sidekick was Bakri Mohammed, another cleric. And back on October 16, 2001, he gave a detailed interview with al-Sharq al-Aswat, an Arabic newspaper in London, describing the relationship between British intelligence and the operations in Kosovo and Al-Muhajiroun. So that's how we get all these guys connected. It started in Kosovo...."
Interview with former US Federal Prosecutor John Loftus
Fox TV, 29 July 2005

Hot To View Streaming Video Of Fox TV Loftus Interview Click Here Hot
Hot Click here To Download Recording Of Fox Interview With Loftus Hot
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For Complete Transcript Of Fox Interview With Loftus Click Here
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US And UK Sponsored Islamic Terrorism In The Balkans - Click Here

"The British al-Qaeda leader linked to the London terrorist attacks was being questioned by police in Pakistan last night after the discovery of mobile phone records detailing his calls with the suicide bombers. Haroon Rashid Aswat has emerged as the figure that Scotland Yard have been hunting since he flew out of Britain just hours before the attacks which killed 56 people. Aswat, 30, who is believed to come from the same West Yorkshire town as one of the bombers, arrived in Britain a fortnight before the attacks to orchestrate final planning for the atrocity. He spoke to the suicide team on his mobile phone a few hours before the four men blew themselves up and killed fifty-two other people. Intelligence sources told The Times that during his stay Aswat visited the home towns of all four bombers as well as selecting targets in London. Aswat has been known to Western intelligence services for more than three years after the FBI accused him of trying to set up al-Qaeda training camps in the US.... Aswat, who is thought to have stayed in the madrassa with two of the British suicide bombers, is being questioned over claims that one — Mohammad Sidique Khan — telephoned him on the morning of the July 7 attack. Intelligence sources claim that there were up to twenty calls between Aswat and two of the bombers in the days leading up to the bombing of three Tube trains and a double-decker bus. A senior Pakistani security source said: 'We believe this man had a crucial part to play in what happened in London.'”
Top al-Qaeda Briton called Tube bombers before attack
London Times, 21 July 2005

So Why, According To Loftus, Did Pakistan Release Aswat Within 24 Hrs?
And Why Are British Officials, According To The Financial Times, Now 'No Longer Interested In Interrogating Him'?

"Three weeks after the first London bombings, British and American security sources are giving markedly different versions of how much was known about the bombers before the attacks and who masterminded them. According to US intelligence sources, a man now being held in Zambia is Haroon Rashid Aswat, a Briton of Indian origin who has links to a convicted Al-Qaeda terrorist. They believe he assisted or masterminded the London attacks. But British investigators, examining whether telephone calls were made between the London bombers and Aswat before the attacks of 7/7, caution that the calls may have been made to a phone linked to Aswat, rather than the man himself... This weekend it appears that several calls from Aswat’s mobile telephone were made to the bombers in the days before the attacks. It is likely that the American National Security Agency — which has a powerful eavesdropping network — was monitoring the calls. If contacts between the bombers and Aswat are proved, it could be a painful blow for British security officials. In the weeks before the attacks Aswat, according to American officials, was under surveillance in South Africa and US authorities wanted to arrest him for questioning. The South Africans are believed to have relayed the request to British authorities who were reluctant to agree to him being seized because of his status as a British citizen..... Senior Whitehall officials also deny 'any knowledge' that he might be an agent for either MI5 or MI6."
Tangled web that still leaves worrying loose ends
London Times, 31 July 2005

"Haroon Rashid Aswat, who grew up in West Yorkshire, was detained [in Zambia] last week for his alleged role in setting up a terror camp in the US state of Oregon, according to the Los Angeles Times. Aswat, who is being held in the capital Lusaka, is also wanted in connection with the London suicide bombings which it is believed he masterminded, according to reports. Scotland Yard has played down the claims. A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: 'In relation to the British national reported to be held in custody in Zambia, we are currently seeking consular access to them. We cannot confirm any detail of the extradition.'"
Italy considers suspect extradition
icHounslow, 1 August 2005

"Although police would not say how far they had come to finding links to those higher up the chain [in the London bombings], they sought to play down the role of Haroon Rashid Aswat.... Zambian officials have agreed to extradite Mr Aswat, whose telephone reportedly received calls from the July 7 bombers, but British officials said they were no longer interested in interrogating him."
Police shift focus to finding organisers
Financial Times, 1 August 2005

"British terror suspect Haroon Aswat remained in Zambian custody as the US and British governments fought over who should get custody of the man, a senior police official said. 'Each country is demanding access and extradition to their respective country but the Zambian government seems to be having difficulties on how to handle the matter,' he said."
US-UK row over Aswat
Hindustan Times, 2 August 2005

"The Fox News report raises some very serious considerations. Haroon Rachid Aswat was reportedly in London for two weeks before the July 7 attacks, 'fleeing just before the explosions'. If Haroon Rashid Aswat had been working for MI-6, as suggested by intelligence analyst John Loftus, his movements and whereabouts, including his contacts with the alleged Yorkshire bombers, might have been known to British intelligence. The nature of Haroon Aswar's links to Western intelligence agencies inevitably has a bearing on the conduct of the police investigation. The broader role of Al-Muhajiroun since its creation in the 1990s, as well as its alleged links to MI-6 requires careful review. Pakistan's ISI should not, for obvious reasons, be involved in the police investigation. In fact, Pakistan's ISI should be the object of the investigation in view of its documented links to the terror network, including Al Qaeda. More generally, the intelligence agencies including M-I6 should not be involved in the police investigation. An independent public inquiry should be launched as demanded by the Conservative opposition."
London 7/7 Terror Suspect Linked to British Intelligence?
Centre For Research On Globalization, 1 August 2005

London Bombings And 'The Pakistan Connection'
Click Here

Also In This Bulletin

'Our Terrorists'
What Is British Intelligence's Relationship With Al Qaeda, And Who Is John Loftus?
Ex-CIA Agent - It's The Oil Stupid!

French Intelligence Claim British Shielding Abu Qatada, Bin Laden's Right Hand Man In Europe
Al Qaeda As Sub-Contractor To British And US Intelligence
Where It All Began
Interview With Former US National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski
'The Pakistan Connection'
Anglo-American Covert Sponsorship Of Islamic Terrorism In
Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Chechnya And Iran
FBI Special Agent - 'There's so much more. God, there's so much more. A lot more.'
New Sunday Times Report
What Was The Role Of British Intelligence In Pushing The False Case To Invade Iraq?
What Is British Intelligence's Relationship With Al Qaeda, And Who Is John Loftus?
Read On,.
Exerpts From....

'Fight Smart' Update - 8 February 2004

'OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR TERRORISTS'
Hutton And The Libyan Black Gold Rush
Why Colonel Gaddafi is not being personally pursued
for the Lockerbie bombing
www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/WATgaddafideal.htm

"..... It has been known for some time, thanks to information leaked by former MI5 officer David Shayler, that MI6 had sponsored a failed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi in 1996. Having fled to France Shayler was pursued by the British authorities for what they regarded as his breach of the Official Secrets Act on this and other matters. Eventually Shayler returned to Britain and sought to protect himself by seeking a 'public interest' defence through the courts.

The legality of such a defence was considered by the House of Lords in March 2002, but Shayler lost the case. The judgement meant that Shayler was not free to speak out about what he considered to be the illegal activities of the British intelligence services. It also meant that he would have to face prosecution under the Official Secrets Act. Lord Hutton was one of the presiding judges who ruled against Shayler.

By the summer of 2003 Lord Hutton was back in the public eye again, but this time much more prominently having been appointed to preside over the Kelly inquiry.

In an article entitled 'Judge is no stranger to the intelligence world' the London Times 1 August commented on Hutton's appointment stating that "Lord Hutton's long involvement with the secret services make him well placed to probe the world of intelligence and political intrigue surrounding David Kelly’s death.... His time in Northern Ireland gave him considerable insight into the workings of the Secret Intelligence Service and attuned him to the political sensitivities of cases involving state security.... The Oxford-educated judge, aged 72, was one of the law lords who decided that a public interest defence was not available to David Shayler, the former MI5 agent who disclosed secrets alleging incompetence in the security services".

However, Shayler was alleging much more than incompetence when it came to British sponsored terrorist activities in Libya, even if the Times chose not to refer to this. It was therefore very necessary to shut Shayler up.

Shayler was eventually convicted and sentenced in November 2002, his trial having been subjected to an official news black out.

On 10 November 2002 the Observer reported that it had "been restrained from printing details of the allegations during the course of the trial of David Shayler, who was last week sentenced to six months in prison for disclosing documents obtained during his time as an MI5 officer. He was not allowed to argue that he made the revelations in the public interest. During his closing speech last week, Shayler repeated claims that he was gagged from talking about 'a crime so heinous' that he had no choice but to go to the press with his story. The 'crime' was the alleged MI6 involvement in the plot to assassinate Gadaffi, hatched in late 1995. During the Shayler trial, Home Secretary David Blunkett and Foreign Secretary Jack Straw signed Public Interest Immunity certificates to protect national security. Reporters were not able to report allegations about the Gadaffi plot during the course of the trial. These restrictions have led to a row between the Attorney General and the so-called D-Notice Committee, which advises the press on national security issues".

Within weeks of his conviction Shayler was released from prison under an electronic tagging scheme for non-violent offenders, but during this time momentum had been building for another act of aggression by Britain against an Islamic country. The invasion of Iraq began in March.

The failure to quickly find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq following the invasion and the ensuing death of government weapons scientist Dr David Kelly lead to national uproar and a formal investigation into to the latter, but not the former, in the second half of 2003. The investigation was led by Lord Hutton. ....

As a result of the allegations made by David Shayler news of the MI6 sponsored plot against Gaddafi first reached public prominence in August 1998 when the BBC's Panorama programme ran coverage of Shayler's claims. But it was not until November 2001 that Shayler disclosed that the attempt had been made via an MI6 alliance with a branch of the al Qaeda terrorist network.......

....... Sweeping MI6 sponsorship of al-Qaeda in Libya under the carpet is likely to have been an important lubricating factor influencing the reaching of a deal with Gaddafi over access to his oil. It is a deal now rosily described in official circles as a triumph for 'diplomacy', whereas in reality the British government had a big skeleton in a closet whose door had creaked open. Britain wanted that closet door firmly closed shut.

Both Gaddafi and Shayler had to be kept quiet, because the full extent of the MI6-al Qaeda story had major implications concerning the integrity of the British government in general and its intelligence services in particular. Moreover the incriminating story did not stop simply with the assassination attempt in 1996.

Following the failed attack on Gaddafi one of the members of the Libyan al Qaeda cell, Anas al-Liby, was given asylum in Britain.

Also understood to be implicated in the 1998 al-Qaeda embassy bombings in Africa in respect of which the FBI has since offered a $25 million reward for information leading to his apprehension or detention, al-Liby lived in Manchester until 2000 when he successfully eluded a police raid. But was his escape down to good judgement on his part or did he elude the police as a result of receiving an MI6 facilitated tip-off?

This is not the first time the British intelligence services have been suspected of protecting members of al Qaeda.

According to the London Times 19 December 2003 "David Blunkett clashed last night with a powerful committee of parliamentarians after they demanded that he scrap a key part of the Government’s anti-terrorism laws.... Members of the committee were surprised at the speed and tone of Mr Blunkett’s reaction to their 121-page report.... The committee of Privy Councillors called for the abolition of the power to allow the indefinite detention without charge or trial of foreign nationals who cannot be deported ...The attack on a key element in the anti terror law comes as foreign governments are also criticising the Government. Their complaint is that they have been given no access to the detainees. Investigators from Spain, Germany and Italy are desperate to question Abu Qatada, who they claim is a pivotal figure in cells they have under arrest in their own countries. Their requests to question him and some of the other suspects directly have been rejected by the Government. Investigators in Spain who named Abu Qatada as 'the spiritual leader of al-Qaeda in Europe', say their own terror trials are hindered by Britain's refusal to let them interrogate the cleric. The Jordanian Government has sentenced him to life imprisonment for his role in planning a bombing campaign to coincide with the the millenium celebrations and cannot understand why Abu Qatada is not extradited. In spite of holding most of the terror suspects for many months, the men are providing the security services and police with little intelligence on terrorist activity in the United Kingdom."

In an article entitled 'Sheltering A Puppet Master?' Time Magazine 7 July 2002 had earlier reported that "Described by some justice officials as the spiritual leader and possible puppet master of al-Qaeda's European networks, Abu Qatada has been missing since mid-December after British authorities confiscated his passport, froze his assets and ordered him confined to his London home. With Jordan seeking his return to serve a life sentence for terror-related crimes, some observers figured Abu Qatada went underground—and perhaps left Britain—to avoid extradition. But senior European intelligence officials tell TIME that Abu Qatada is tucked away in a safe house in the north of England, where he and his family are being lodged, fed and clothed by British intelligence services".

Such people, it would seem, are 'our terrorists'.

In the end Qatada appears only to have been detained following pressure from European intelligence agencies and the efforts of Labour MP, Andrew Dismore.

According to the London Times 26 October 2002 "For months Britain’s most wanted man was able to live openly in a modern London flat, allegedly drawing benefit payments and entertaining a procession of Islamic militants while the security services were hunting him. Abu Qatada, who is accused by police in Europe of being a pivotal figure in al-Qaeda, had regular visits from his wife and five children, who often stayed for several days at a time.... The militant cleric has been the subject of speculation and conspiracy theories since he slipped away from his West London home with his family last December, just before new terror laws were introduced. A French security official has alleged that the cleric, whose real name is Sheikh Omar Mahmood Abu Omar, was a spy for British Intelligence, who were protecting him at a safe house. That allegation was strongly denied. The authorities were, however, embarrassed by questions from police in Italy, Spain and Germany as to why such a figure could not be found. They say he is closely linked to terror cells plotting bomb attacks in Europe and recruiting terrorists for al-Qaeda... the cleric ... is 6ft 3in and weighs more than 20st... The flat where he was found, which belongs to a Housing Association in Southwark, is only a short walk from Parliament, the Home Office and MI6’s headquarters. Abu Qatada is thought to have spent several months in this housing estate, which is close to London’s South Bank University. One of the men he allegedly recruited to al-Qaeda, Zacharias Moussaoui, the [911] '20th hijacker', was a student at this university.... Southwark council said it was paying benefits to the occupant of the flat and that it was investigating the incident.... His arrest was welcomed as 'extremely good news' by the Labour MP for Hendon, Andrew Dismore, who was instrumental in having him investigated."

The refusal by British authorities to let other European intelligence agencies have access to Qatada is disturbing. To date only one person anywhere in the world has been convicted for involvement in 911 despite the passage of more than two years since the attacks. Even that case, involving Mounir el-Moutassadeq and his conviction by the German courts, has been allowed to proceed to appeal because of problems that have arisen with the evidence against him.

Similar circumstances, this time involving the US intelligence services, have resulted in the acquital of another man accused of being involved in 911. According to the New York Times 6 February "Citing a refusal by the United States to allow testimony from a suspected member of Al Qaeda in its custody, a German court on Thursday acquitted a former roommate of Mohamed Atta who was accused of providing support to suicide pilots in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks ...... Prosecutors blamed the acquittal on the Bush administration's reluctance to make captured terrorists available for testimony and to allow prosecutors to make use of intelligence information on the terrorist network. 'They must have their reasons, which they did not communicate to us,' said the chief federal prosecutor, Kay Nehm, The Associated Press reported. 'I find this conduct by the United States incomprehensible.'

The New York Times concludes that "The Bush administration's stance could also imperil the criminal prosecution of the only person facing trial in the United States on charges of involvement in the Sept. 11 attacks. Zacarias Moussaoui, a French citizen, is accused of repeated contacts with the same Hamburg terrorist cell that Mr. Mzoudi was accused of supporting."

If these trends continue it is possible that by the third anniversary of 911 there will be no successful convictions anywhere in the world for those attacks.

The London Times of 29 December 2003 continued to be scathing about the Blair government's 'war against terrorism' stating "The ruins of the World Trade Centre were still burning when Tony Blair and David Blunkett appeared before the cameras to pledge that they would speed up the extradition of terrorist suspects sheltering in Britain. However, not one has since been extradited from Britain, despite the repeated requests of more than a dozen friendly governments.... countries complain that the British authorities have refused even to arrest some men whom they have identified as having terrorist links.... Three people on the wanted list are accused of playing pivotal roles in the lorry bomb attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 in which 231 people were killed.... New [faster] British extradition laws that come into force on January 1... do not affect al-Qaeda suspects seized after the September 11 attacks."

So what is it that the British government appears to have to hide in all of this? We may never know.

Thanks to his detention under the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 nobody can access Qatada and he can be held indefinitely without charge - a situation against which he has recently lost his appeal according to the London Times 28 January (such detention only applies to foreign nationals held under the Act. What to do with terrorists holding British nationality is more problematical. However, the latest proposals for changes to the law may provide a solution. According to the BBC 2 February new plans from Home Secretary David Blunkett for dealing with British terrorism suspects include "keeping sensitive evidence from defendants and secret trials before vetted judges.... Evidence in the new trials would be kept secret from the defendants to protect MI5, MI6 and GCHQ intelligence sources, he said." You bet.).

This, of course, is to say nothing of the extraordinary case of Omar Sheikh, the British citizen detained in Pakistan. Despite already being held in custody on other charges the British Government has shown no sign of any interest in having Sheikh indicted for his reported role in directly funding Mohammed Atta the lead hijacker in the 911 attacks (see 'Fight Smart' 2 Jan 2003 - 'The Omar Sheikh Files'). Why isn't the British government pursuing the case?

The Washington Post 7 October 2001 gave something of a cutting, if only partial, insight into the way international terrorism is manipulated by the British authorities in order to achieve foreign policy goals.

The article states "Over the years, some dissidents suspected by foreign governments of involvement in terrorist acts have been protected by the British government for one reason or another from deportation or extradition.... In the past, terrorism experts say, Britain benefited significantly from its willingness to extend at least conditional hospitality to a wide range of Arab dissidents and opposition figures. The dissidents were a valuable source of intelligence and could be used as a subtle means of political pressure against authoritarian regimes, from Libya to Saudi Arabia to Yemen. By hosting the dissidents, the theory went, Britain was also buying itself immunity from acts of terrorism on its soil. 'Britain has been playing this game in the Middle East for a very long time,' said Yosri Fouda, London bureau chief for the Arab TV channel al-Jazeera, who has made a detailed study of Islamic groups in Britain. 'It's a political game that can be effective as long as you know how to play it, but it can also come back to haunt you.'... Egypt, in particular, has repeatedly accused Britain of 'harboring terrorists' -- an accusation repeated last week during a visit to Cairo by British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. The al-Liby affair appears to illustrate the sometimes complicated calculations that lie behind the British government's decision to grant or withhold asylum requests.... Mustafa Alani, a terrorism expert at the Royal United Services Institute for Defense Studies, a London think tank, said al-Liby was probably left in legal limbo by the British government, allowing him to be used or discarded as circumstances permitted.... Alani noted that Britain had an interest in tolerating Libyan exiles as a pressure point against Gaddafi, who was suspected by Britain of being behind a string of terrorist acts, including the downing of a Pan Am airliner over Scotland in December 1988. According to a renegade officer for the British intelligence service MI5, David Shayler, British intelligence plotted with Islamic extremists to assassinate Gaddafi in early 1996..."

Revealing as it is in some areas the Washington Post's analysis is, however, too generous. We now know that it was al-Liby who was one of those funded by MI6 to carry out the 1996 terrorist attack in Libya. How many other such terrorist attacks have been instigated by MI6 overseas for geo-strategic purposes? Shayler was only in a position to talk about the attack on Gaddafi because he served on MI5's Libyan desk. What has been the situation in other countries where Britain would like to cause trouble in furtherance of its foreign policy objectives?

It should not be assumed, of course, that the discrete fostering of international terrorism when it suits is limited to the British government.

Despite al-Liby's alleged involvement in the attacks and the $25 million dollar reward placed on his head by the FBI, the American authorities also seem to have been faking their pursuit of al Qaeda terrorists involved in the 1998 African Embassy bombings. According to an ABC News report entitled 'Called Off the Trail?' there have been some very dubious activities going on behind the scenes in this area.

ABC reported 19 December 2002 that "In a dramatic interview with ABCNEWS, FBI special agents and partners Robert Wright and John Vincent say they were called off criminal investigations of suspected terrorists tied to the deadly bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. U.S. officials say al Qaeda was responsible for the embassy attacks and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.... The suspected terrorist cell in Chicago was the basis of the investigation, yet Wright, who remains with the FBI, says he soon discovered that all the FBI intelligence division wanted him to do was to follow suspected terrorists and file reports — but make no arrests.... 'The supervisor who was there from headquarters was right straight across from me and started yelling at me: 'You will not open criminal investigations. I forbid any of you. You will not open criminal investigations against any of these intelligence subjects,' ' Wright said. Even though they were on a terrorism task force and said they had proof of criminal activity, Wright said he was told not to pursue the matter.... even after the bombings, Wright said FBI headquarters wanted no arrests. 'Two months after the embassies are hit in Africa, they wanted to shut down the criminal investigation,' said Wright. 'They wanted to kill it.' ... The move outraged Chicago federal prosecutor Mark Flessner, who was assigned to the case despite efforts Wright and Vincent say were made by superiors to block the probe....'There were powers bigger than I was in the Justice Department and within the FBI that simply were not going to let it [the building of a criminal case] happen. And it didn't happen,' Flessner said. He said he still couldn't figure out why Washington stopped the case... On Sept. 11, 2001, the two agents watched the terror attacks in horror, worried that men they could have stopped years earlier may have been involved.'"

The FBI has refused to permit the release of Wright's 500 page manuscript, 'Fatal Betrayals of the Intelligence Mission', that he submitted for prepublication review in October 2001. In fact, the FBI even refused to turn the manuscript over to Senator Shelby, Vice Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee charged with investigating America's 911 intelligence failures. Wright has launched a lawsuit against the FBI.

In short, there would appear to be a large gap between what the FBI says in public it is doing in the so called 'war against terrorism' and what is really happening in practice.

Even though the exact tactics can change almost overnight according to the layout of the geo-political chess board at any given time (as the Washington Post put it in relation to al-Liby, such terrorists can "be used or discarded" as circumstances permit), in one form or other oil and gas are never far away from the play of such hidden agendas.

On 15 November 2001 the news agency Inter Press Service reported that the head of counter-terrorism at the FBI, John O'Neill had resigned in July 2001 because he was being obstructed by the Bush administration from investigating al Qaeda.

Six months later, on 31 May 2002, a press release issued by the office of the former federal prosecutor John Loftus elaborated on this situation stating that "Loftus recently received an FBI translation of a highly classified and encrypted Al Qaida document, circa 1997-1998, which was retrieved and decrypted from a computer laptop following the Embassy bombing in Africa. The document was written by Osama Bin Laden’s military commander, Mohammed Atef, under his nom de guerre, Abu Haf, and reveals extensive knowledge of the supposedly secret pipeline negotiations [in Afghanistan], and their potential economic worth to the Taliban, Pakistan and the U.S.... in January 2001, Vice President Cheney allegedly reinstated the intelligence block and expanded it to effectively preclude any investigations whatsoever of Saudi-Taliban-Afghan oil connections. Former FBI counter-terrorism chief John O’Neil resigned from the FBI in disgust, stating that he was ordered not to investigate Saudi-Al Qaida connections because of the Enron pipeline deal. Loftus has confirmed that it was O’Neill who originally discovered the AL Qaida pipeline memo after the Embassy bombings in Africa. O’Neill gave an overview of the Enron block to two French authors who will soon be publishing in the United States. The FBI is currently investigating Loftus’ links to John O’Neill, and is also refusing FBI agent Robert Wright permission to publish his own findings about the Enron block. Loftus asserts that the Enron block, which remained in force from January 2001 until August 2001 when the pipeline deal collapsed, is the reason that none of FBI agent Rowley’s requests for investigations were ever approved. As numerous British and French authors have concluded, the information provided by European intelligence sources prior to 9/11 was so extensive, that it is no longer possible for either CIA or the FBI to assert a defense of incompetence. It is time for Congress to face the truth: In order to give Enron one last desperate chance to complete the Taliban pipeline and save itself from bankruptcy, senior levels of US intelligence were ordered to keep their eyes shut and their subordinates ignorant. The Enron cover-up confirms that 9/11 was not an intelligence failure or a law enforcement failure (at least not entirely). Instead, it was a foreign policy failure of the highest order. If Congress ever combines its Enron investigation with 9/11, Cheney’s whole house of cards will collapse".

With the Financial Times reporting for the first time on 26 January 2004 that the reserves of the world's top ten oil companies are already depleting faster than they can replenish them no one should be under any illusions about the cynical and ruthless nature of this dirty game.

In short, whether as big a threat as made out or not (the British transport secretary claimed on 4 January that "I fear that for many years to come we are going to be living in an age where there is going to be a heightened state of alert" following security delays to international flights based on intelligence reports which not everyone found credible), post-911 Britain and America need to keep the concept of the enemy of al Qaeda alive in order to provide political cover for their military incursions into those parts of the globe where the most of the oil and gas resides - namely the Islamic world......"

Ex-CIA Agent - It's The Oil Stupid!

"Robert Baer, a former CIA spy who presents a television documentary on the history of suicide bombing, says he knew the practice would come to the UK. And it’s not the West’s values, but its foreign policies, that are to blame..... As someone who prefers his terrorism confined to Sunday nights and episodes of 24, I had been clinging to the hope that London’s recent Thursdays were an aberration. My optimism is severely dimmed by meeting Robert Baer, a former CIA spy who has returned to his old beat in the Middle East to make a grimly fascinating two-part history of suicide bombing for Channel 4. What he delivers is not good news. It provides, however, an unusually clear view of the landscape...He does not disown the words he uses at the end of this Thursday’s documentary, that suicide bombing, 'like a pathological virus', has become unstoppable. He does add, perhaps for my sake, the proviso 'until you take the causes away', but by this stage even I can see they are not going to be..... 'The other one thing is, ‘they hate us’, which is just total bullshit.' [he says] Is it? 'Yes,' he says, 'it is.' In a school run by Hezbollah, he asked a class dominated by the daughters of 'martyrs' if they watched US television. 'Everybody raised their hand. And what did they watch? Oprah. I said, ‘How can you watch this crap?’ And they said, ‘No, she’s great. We love Oprah.’..... So, it wasn’t our values. It wasn’t Western values. It’s Western presence. They want us to get out.'..... There is, however, a three-letter reason why the US will not impose a peace plan on Israel and leave the region. Baer, the author of Sleeping With The Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude, well knows what it is. 'I don’t think any American politician, however at fault we are in Iraq or anywhere else, can say, ‘All right, let the crazies have the oil fields’, because oil at $200 a barrel would put us into a depression.' So because the American economy is at stake, we can’t get out even to save our skins? 'That, I believe, is your classic paradox.' Until making the programme, Baer had not visited Iran since 1979, near the beginning of his 21-year career as a CIA field officer that would post him to Syria, Sudan, Beirut and Tajikistan. March 1995 found him in northern Iraq, where rebels were preparing an uprising against Saddam Hussein. To Baer’s amazement, at the last moment the Clinton regime decided to disown it..... His cynicism has undoubtedly been sharpened by his treatment at the hands not only of his CIA masters, but by politicians. He abhors the neo-cons who now shape American foreign policy (he says on leaving the CIA he had any number of offers to take a job in a 'crazy right-wing institute'), but he is also deeply critical of Bill Clinton’s 'moral pliability'. 'Clinton brought the whole level of politics to a new low, and then Bush come along and institutionalised the corruption.'"
Suicide bombing is a virus that’s here to stay
London Times, 2 August 2005

(Note: Baer's two-part series 'Cult of the Suicide Bomber' is on Channel 4 on August 4 and August 9 at 9pm according to The London Times)

"....the second strand in [the Bush administration's] global strategy is to secure greater supplies of foreign oil. An energy report by Vice-President Dick Cheney 18 months ago forecast that American oil imports would have to rise by more than half by 2020 - partly, of course, because the administration is not much interested in reducing consumption... the most obvious tool [for this] is the military one...To take one example, American military bases set up to fight al-Qaeda in central Asia may also serve to safeguard oil supplies, to back up the commercial exploitation of the Caspian basin."
Iraq crisis reflects global US strategy
BBC Online, 1 January 2003

"By 2010, Muslim nations could control 60 percent of the world`s oil production and, more importantly, 95 percent of the world`s oil exports."
THE SECRET: Oil Crunch is Coming
Iviews, 27 Nov 2002

"Soaring global energy demand will leave the West increasingly in thrall to the Middle East, the world’s energy watchdog said yesterday. The International Energy Agency (IEA) forecast that the world’s daily burn rate for oil will rise by almost half over the next 25 years, to 121 million barrels a day, as global energy consumption rises inexorably. The IEA predicts that demand of energy of all types will soar by 59 per cent by 2030... The IEA expects the Middle East Opec states to be pumping 52 million barrels a day by 2030, up from 20 million today. However, Sadad Husseini, a former vice-president in charge of production at Saudi Arabia’s state-owned Aramco oil group, told Channel 4 News that hopes of doubling Saudi production to 22 million barrels a day over two decades to help to meet demand were 'unrealistic' and a dangerous basis for policy."
Oil thirst 'makes Middle East crucial'
London Times, 27 October 2004

".... a series of crises in oil supply is likely over the coming decades. The first, related to the peak and decline of non-OPEC production, is practically upon us and underpins the currently high oil prices...... The imminent inability of non-OPEC production to meet incremental demand and its decline after 2010 precipitates the second crisis as OPEC’s diminishing spare capacity (even with Iraq’s production back to preinvasion levels) becomes less and less able to accommodate short-term fluctuations.....The third crisis, due to OPEC’s incremental supply being unable to meet incremental demand, follows in the first half of the next decade. This assumes that OPEC’s reserves are as published. .....These crises will have global economic and geopolitical significance: The oil price will be high and volatile, and demand growth will have to be curtailed..."
Oil Supply Challenges - 2: What Can OPEC Deliver?
Oil and Gas Journal, 7 March 2005

Oil And Gas Journal Predicts Emerging Oil Supply Crisis - Click Here
'Peak Oil' - Global Energy Crisis Looming - Click Here

French Intelligence Claim British Shielding Abu Qatada, Bin Laden's Right Hand Man In Europe

"A detainee in Guantanamo Bay with strong links to Britain has claimed he acted as a go-between for British intelligence and an alleged leading member of al-Qa'ida in London. The claims come from Bisher al-Rawi, 37, who came to Britain as a teenage refugee but has been held in Cuba for more than two years as a suspected supporter of al-Qa'ida. He was seized by US intelligence agents on a business trip to Gambia in November 2002 because of his friendship with Abu Qatada, the militant Islamic cleric alleged to be al-Qa'ida's 'spiritual leader' in Europe. In testimony to a US military tribunal in Cuba seen by The Independent on Sunday, Mr Rawi claimed he had acted as an intermediary between Abu Qatada, a Palestinian refugee, and MI5. He named three MI5 agents, 'Alex', 'Matthew' and 'Martin', and asked for them to be called as defence witnesses. Although the tribunal agreed, the British Government refused to allow them to give evidence. It is thought that Mr Rawi's MI5 contacts took place while Abu Qatada was in hiding for nine months - in a safe house the detainee has admitted finding for him in London. Abu Qatada disappeared in December 2001, hours before the Government took controversial powers to detain foreign terror suspects without trial.....His claims follow allegations, by Islamist militants as well as French security sources, that Abu Qatada had contacts with British intelligence..."
'I was MI5 go-between,' says Briton held in Guantanamo
Independent, 16 January 2005

"Mr Rawi alleges that intelligence agents knew Mr Qatada's location when he was supposedly in hiding after the terrorist attacks of September 11 2001, because Mr Rawi had told them. He also alleges that he acted as a 'go-between' between the radical cleric and MI5 when the authorities were saying they did not know where the alleged militant was. Mr Qatada has been branded as Osama bin Laden's right-hand man in Europe. A video of his sermons was found in the Hamburg flat of Mohammed Atta, the leader of the September 11 hijackings. The startling claims from Mr Rawi came during a hearing at Guantánamo Bay last year. Key sections had been kept classified by the US military authorities, and are revealed here for the first time.... Mr Rawi called three MI5 officers he said he had contacts with for his Guantánamo hearing. The chairman of the US military tribunal said the British government had refused to cooperate. 'We have contacted the British government and at this time, they are not willing to provide the tribunal with that information,' the chairman said. After the September 11 attacks, the British government passed laws allowing it to detain foreign terror suspects without charge. Mr Qatada, who feared that he would be a target, went on the run, with the British authorities supposedly unable to find him for 10 months. But Mr Rawi claims that intelligence agents knew exactly where Mr Qatada was. 'When he disappeared I received a call from the British Intelligence Agency asking if I knew where Abu was ... I told them I did. I took a role as a go-between for the British Intelligence Agency and Abu Qatada,' Mr Rawi said. 'During the time he was supposedly in hiding from them, the British authorities knew where Abu was and they used it to their advantage.' In a Guardian interview 18 months ago, Mr Rawi's brother Wahab freely admitted that he and Bisher had assisted Mr Qatada while he was on the run. Wahab al-Rawi said that when they were being interrogated by US agents in Gambia after they were first arrested, one US agent asked if his brother worked for British intelligence. A number of Muslims in London doubted that the UK authorities could not find Mr Qatada when he was supposedly on the run from December 2001 to October 2002, in part because so many Muslims here knew where he was. According to one report, this was a view shared by French intelligence, which claimed that the British secret services were shielding the cleric."
Guantánamo Briton claims he spied for MI5
Guardian, 22 March 2005

Al Qaeda As Sub-Contractor To British And US Intelligence

"British intelligence paid large sums of money to an al-Qaeda cell in Libya in a doomed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gadaffi in 1996 and thwarted early attempts to bring Osama bin Laden to justice....The Libyan al-Qaeda cell included Anas al-Liby.... The Observer can today reveal that the MI6 officers involved in the alleged plot were Richard Bartlett, who has previously only been known under the codename PT16 and had overall responsibility for the operation; and David Watson, codename PT16B. As Shayler's opposite number in MI6, Watson was responsible for running a Libyan agent, 'Tunworth', who was providing information from within the cell. According to Shayler, MI6 passed £100,000 to the al-Qaeda plotters.... "
MI6 'halted bid to arrest bin Laden'
Observer, 10 November 2002

"The London Times 1 August comments on Lord Hutton's own closeness to the British intelligence services stating that 'Lord Hutton's long involvement with the secret services make him well placed to probe the world of intelligence and political intrigue surrounding David Kelly’s death.... His time in Northern Ireland gave him considerable insight into the workings of the Secret Intelligence Service and attuned him to the political sensitivities of cases involving state security....' We will only know if this proves to have been an advantage or a disadvantage when Lord Hutton provides his final report. Will he be bold enough to recommend, for example, a separate investigation of the intelligence services where his existing terms of reference do not give him sufficient latitude? Lord Hutton has protected the intelligence services in the past. The Times points out that 'The Oxford-educated judge, aged 72, was one of the law lords who decided that a public interest defence was not available to David Shayler, the former MI5 agent who disclosed secrets alleging incompetence in the security services'. Shayler's concerns have in fact been much more than simply about professional incompetence, however. Last November the Observer reported on Shayler's follow-on trial. At that time Shayler was claiming that MI6 had 'paid large sums of money to an al-Qaeda cell in Libya in a doomed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi in 1996' and that one of the members of the cell [Anas al-Liby] had been granted political asylum in Britain, living in Manchester until 2000. Shayler named the MI6 officer involved in the British payments to al Qaeda. The Observer pointed out that 'During the Shayler trial, Home Secretary David Blunkett and Foreign Secretary Jack Straw signed Public Interest Immunity certificates to protect national security. [As a result] Reporters were not able to report allegations about the Gaddafi plot during the course of the trial.... These restrictions have led to a row between the Attorney General and the so-called D-Notice Committee, which advises the press on national security issues..... Members of the committee, who include senior national newspaper executives, are said to be horrified at the unprecedented attempt to censor the media during the trial.' Once again 'national security' excuses appear to have been used as a fig leaf for covering up illicit activity by the British government - in that case the actuality was no less than British sponsorship of international terrorism."
Iraqgate 2003
'Fight Smart' Special Report, October 2004

"Shayler will be defending himself during the trial. He is expected to claim that British secret service agents paid up to £100,000 to al Qaeda terrorists for an assassination attempt on Libyan leader Colonel Gadaffy in 1996."
Calls for secret Shayler trial
London Evening Standard, 7 October 2002

"The ruins of the World Trade Centre were still burning when Tony Blair and David Blunkett appeared before the cameras to pledge that they would speed up the extradition of terrorist suspects sheltering in Britain. However, not one has since been extradited from Britain, despite the repeated requests of more than a dozen friendly governments.... countries complain that the British authorities have refused even to arrest some men whom they have identified as having terrorist links.... Three people on the wanted list are accused of playing pivotal roles in the lorry bomb attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 in which 231 people were killed.... New [faster] British extradition laws that come into force on January 1... do not affect al-Qaeda suspects seized after the September 11 attacks."
Blair 'broke promise' on terrorist suspects
London Times, 29 December 2003

"Over the years, some dissidents suspected by foreign governments of involvement in terrorist acts have been protected by the British government for one reason or another from deportation or extradition.... In the past, terrorism experts say, Britain benefited significantly from its willingness to extend at least conditional hospitality to a wide range of Arab dissidents and opposition figures.... Mustafa Alani, a terrorism expert at the Royal United Services Institute for Defense Studies, a London think tank, said al-Liby was probably left in legal limbo by the British government, allowing him to be used or discarded as circumstances permitted.... According to a renegade officer for the British intelligence service MI5, David Shayler, British intelligence plotted with Islamic extremists to assassinate Gaddafi in early 1996..."
Britain a Refuge for Mideast Dissidents - Some With Suspected Ties to Bin Laden Resist Extradition
Washington Post, 7 October 2001

"Many writers and reporters have traced al-Qa'eda and other terror groups' origins back to the Afghan war of 1979-1992, that last gasp of the Cold War when US-backed mujahedin forces fought against the invading Soviet army. It is well documented that America played a major role in creating and sustaining the mujahedin, which included Osama bin Laden's Office of Services set up to recruit volunteers from overseas ... Yet America's role in backing the mujahedin a second time in the early and mid-1990s is seldom mentioned - largely because very few people know about it, and those who do find it prudent to pretend that it never happened.... From 1992 to 1995, the Pentagon assisted with the movement of thousands of mujahedin and other Islamic elements from Central Asia into Europe, to fight alongside Bosnian Muslims against the Serbs. The Bosnia venture appears to have been very important to the rise of mujahedin forces, to the emergence of today's cross-border Islamic terrorists who think nothing of moving from state to state in the search of outlets for their jihadist mission. In moving to Bosnia, Islamic fighters were transported from the ghettos of Afghanistan and the Middle East into Europe; from an outdated battleground of the Cold War to the major world conflict of the day; from being yesterday's men to fighting alongside the West's favoured side in the clash of the Balkans. If Western intervention in Afghanistan created the mujahedin, Western intervention in Bosnia appears to have globalised it.... The Pentagon's secret alliance with Islamic elements allowed mujahedin fighters to be 'flown in', though they were initially reserved as shock troops for particularly hazardous operations against Serb forces. According to a report in the Los Angeles Times in October 2001, from 1992 as many as 4,000 volunteers from the Middle East, North Africa and Europe, 'known as the mujahedin', arrived in Bosnia to fight with the Muslims. Richard Holbrooke, America's former chief Balkans peace negotiator, has said that the Bosnian Muslims 'wouldn't have survived' without the help of the mujahedin, though he later admitted that the arrival of the mujahedin was a 'pact with the devil' from which Bosnia is still recovering. By the end of the 1990s State Department officials were increasingly worried about the consequences of this pact. Under the terms of the 1995 Dayton peace accord, the foreign mujahedin units were required to disband and leave the Balkans. Yet in 2000, the State Department raised concerns about the 'hundreds of foreign Islamic extremists' who became Bosnian citizens after fighting against the Serbs, and who pose a potential terror threat to Europe and the United States. US officials claimed that one of bin Laden's top lieutenants had sent operatives to Bosnia, and that during the 1990s Bosnia had served as a 'staging area and safe haven' for al-Qa'eda and others. The Clinton administration had discovered that it is one thing to permit the movement of Islamic groups across territories; it is quite another to rein them back in again. Indeed, for all the Clinton officials' concern about Islamic extremists in the Balkans, they continued to allow the growth and movement of mujahedin forces in Europe through the 1990s. In the late 1990s, in the run-up to Clinton's and Blair's Kosovo war of 1999, the USA backed the Kosovo Liberation Army against Serbia. According to a report in the Jerusalem Post in 1998, KLA members, like the Bosnian Muslims before them, had been 'provided with financial and military support from Islamic countries', and had been 'bolstered by hundreds of Iranian fighters or mujahedin ...[some of whom] were trained in Osama bin Laden's terrorist camps in Afghanistan'. It seems that, for all its handwringing, the USA just couldn't break the pact with the devil... It would appear that when it comes to Bosnia, many in the West have a moral blind spot..... Western intervention in Bosnia, it would appear, has become an unquestionably positive thing, something that is beyond interrogation and debate."
How we trained al-Qa'eda
Spectator, 13 September 2003

"America has started secret negotiations with the Kosovo Liberation Army about supplying it with specialist weapons to attack Serb ground forces in Kosovo...The strategy...has echoes of earlier covert operations by Washington to supply arms to the Contras or the Bosnian Muslims... the State Department, which last year was willing to accept descriptions of the KLA as terrorist criminals but now appears to view it as an organisation it can do business with."
US opens secret talks on arming KLA
Daily Telegraph, 12 April 1999

"British and American special forces teams are working undercover in Kosovo with the rebel Kosovo Liberation Army to identify Serbian targets for Nato bombing raids....The SAS is also advising the rebels at their strongholds in northern Albania, where the KLA has launched a major recruitment and training operation. According to high-ranking KLA officials, the SAS is using two camps near Tirana, the Albanian capital, and another on the Kosovan border to teach KLA officers how to conduct intelligence-gathering operations on Serbian positions....It is the latest evidence of the growing co-operation between Nato and the KLA, a movement once denounced by the West's leaders as 'terrorists'...alliance spokesman James Shea enthusiastically predicted that the KLA would 'rise from the ashes' and play an increasingly important role in the current campaign... The alliance is now quietly drafting the KLA into its war against Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian leader. It is even considering plans to train them and ease the arms embargo on Yugoslavia to supply them with weapons such as mortars and rocket-propelled grenades.... They are negotiating for a long-term training deal with Military and Professional Resources International, a mercenary company run by former American officers who operate with semi-official approval from the Pentagon and played a key role in building up Croatia's armed forces... From their remaining enclaves within Kosovo and reconnaissance missions staged from Albania, the rebels already use satellite and cellular telephones to provide Nato with details on Serbian targets."
SAS teams move in to help KLA 'rise from the ashes'
Sunday Telegraph, 18 April 1999

US And UK Sponsored Islamic Terrorism In The Balkans - Click Here

Where It All Began
Interview With Former US National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski

"In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings..... The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books...."
From U.S., the ABC's of Jihad
Washington Post, 23 March 2002

The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser
Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998
Posted at globalresearch.ca 15 October 2001

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundementalists, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at slam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

Translated from the French by Bill Blum

The URL of this article is:
 http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html

Copyright, Le Nouvel Observateur and Bill Blum. For fair use only.

'The Pakistan Connection'
Anglo-American Covert Sponsorship Of Islamic Terrorism In
Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Chechnya And Iran
Click Here

FBI Special Agent - 'There's so much more. God, there's so much more. A lot more.'

"There's so much more. God, there's so much more. A lot more."
FBI agent, Robert Wright, who is being officially prevented from telling the public about how his efforts to investigate al-Qaeda pre-911 were blocked by his supervisors
'Called off the trail?' - ABC News, 19 Dec 2002

"In a dramatic interview with ABCNEWS, FBI special agents and partners Robert Wright and John Vincent say they were called off criminal investigations of suspected terrorists tied to the deadly bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. U.S. officials say al Qaeda was responsible for the embassy attacks and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.... The suspected terrorist cell in Chicago was the basis of the investigation, yet Wright, who remains with the FBI, says he soon discovered that all the FBI intelligence division wanted him to do was to follow suspected terrorists and file reports — but make no arrests.... 'The supervisor who was there from headquarters was right straight across from me and started yelling at me: 'You will not open criminal investigations. I forbid any of you. You will not open criminal investigations against any of these intelligence subjects,' ' Wright said. Even though they were on a terrorism task force and said they had proof of criminal activity, Wright said he was told not to pursue the matter.... even after the bombings, Wright said FBI headquarters wanted no arrests. 'Two months after the embassies are hit in Africa, they wanted to shut down the criminal investigation,' said Wright. 'They wanted to kill it.' ... The move outraged Chicago federal prosecutor Mark Flessner, who was assigned to the case despite efforts Wright and Vincent say were made by superiors to block the probe....'There were powers bigger than I was in the Justice Department and within the FBI that simply were not going to let it [the building of a criminal case] happen. And it didn't happen,' Flessner said. He said he still couldn't figure out why Washington stopped the case... On Sept. 11, 2001, the two agents watched the terror attacks in horror, worried that men they could have stopped years earlier may have been involved.'"
Called Off the Trail?
ABCNews, 19 Dec 2002

"Anas Al-Liby is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Anas Al-Liby."
FBI web site, United States of America

"British intelligence paid large sums of money to an al-Qaeda cell in Libya in a doomed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gadaffi in 1996 and thwarted early attempts to bring Osama bin Laden to justice.....two French intelligence experts .... reveal that the first Interpol arrest warrant for bin Laden was issued by Libya in March 1998. According to journalist Guillaume Dasquié and Jean-Charles Brisard, an adviser to French President Jacques Chirac, British and US intelligence agencies buried the fact that the arrest warrant had come from Libya ....... Five months after the warrant was issued, al-Qaeda killed more than 200 people in the truck bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. The arrest warrant was issued in connection with the murder in March 1994 of two German anti-terrorism agents, Silvan and Vera Becker, who were in charge of missions in Africa. According to the book, the resistance of Western intelligence agencies to the Libyan concerns can be explained by MI6's involvement with the al-Qaeda coup plot. The Libyan al-Qaeda cell included Anas al-Liby, who remains on the US government's most wanted list with a reward of $25 million for his capture. He is wanted for his involvement in the African embassy bombings. Al-Liby was with bin Laden in Sudan before the al-Qaeda leader returned to Afghanistan in 1996. Astonishingly, despite suspicions that he was a high-level al-Qaeda operative, al-Liby was given political asylum in Britain and lived in Manchester until May of 2000....."
MI6 'halted bid to arrest bin Laden'
Observer, 10 November 2002

"Security chiefs on both sides of the Atlantic repeatedly turned down the chance to acquire a vast intelligence database on Osama bin Laden and more than 200 leading members of his al-Qaeda terrorist network in the years leading up to the 11 September attacks, an Observer investigation has revealed. They were offered thick files, with photographs and detailed biographies of many of his principal cadres, and vital information about al-Qaeda's financial interests in many parts of the globe. On two separate occasions, they were given an opportunity to extradite or interview key bin Laden operatives who had been arrested in Africa because they appeared to be planning terrorist atrocities. None of the offers, made regularly from the start of 1995, was taken up.... The Observer has evidence that a separate offer made by Sudanese agents in Britain to share intelligence with MI6 has been rejected. This follows four years of similar rebuffs.... The Observer has obtained a copy of a personal memo sent from Sudan to Louis Freeh, former director of the FBI, after the murderous 1998 attacks on American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. It announces the arrest of two named bin Laden operatives held the day after the bombings after they crossed the Sudanese border from Kenya. They had cited the manager of a Khartoum leather factory owned by bin Laden as a reference for their visas, and were held after they tried to rent a flat overlooking the US embassy in Khartoum, where they were thought to be planning an attack. US sources have confirmed that the FBI wished to arrange their immediate extradition. However, Clinton's Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, forbade it.... Sudan held the suspects for a further three weeks, hoping the US would both perform their extradition and take up the offer to examine their bin Laden database."
Resentful west spurned Sudan's key terror files
Observer, 30 September 2001

New Sunday Times Report
What Was The Role Of British Intelligence In Pushing The False Case To Invade Iraq?

Apart From Blair
Intelligence Services Almost Only People In UK Pushing For War

"The split over the Iraq war, which ran through the Labour party, reached into Tony Blair’s innermost circle, according to an updated biography of the prime minister. Key Downing Street advisers including Alastair Campbell, former director of communications, and Baroness Morgan, former director of political and government relations, are revealed to have had 'private reservations' about the prime minister’s strategy. The disclosures have been made by Blair’s biographer Anthony Seldon, who has benefited from insider accounts that the government is now seeking to suppress.... Seldon is understood to have had access to the private unpublished papers of key officials. Sir Christopher Meyer, the former British ambassador in Washington; Lance Price, former deputy to Campbell at Downing Street; and Sir Jeremy Greenstock, Britain’s ambassador to the United Nations and then special envoy to Iraq, are all understood to have kept detailed records and were all interviewed by Seldon. The updated version of Seldon’s biography of Blair draws heavily on their revelatory material — the publication of which Whitehall officials are now attempting to block. The Cabinet Office has halted Price’s plans to publish his memoirs while Greenstock’s forthcoming book is to be edited before publication. Meyer intends to publish his memoirs in the autumn, after official clearance....[Seddon's book states] 'Many senior diplomats in the Foreign Office were deeply concerned but failed to speak out . . . Within his closest team in No 10, Campbell and Morgan had private reservations while (David) Manning (Blair’s foreign policy adviser) was often uneasy . . . The intelligence chiefs (Sir John Scarlett, Sir Stephen Lander and Sir Richard Dearlove) were not counselling caution.' [even though we now know they had no credible intelligence, Fight Smart Ed]”
Key No 10 aides were split over war
Sunday Times, 31 July 2005

"Britain ran a covert 'dirty tricks' operation designed specifically to produce misleading intelligence that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction to give the UK a justifiable excuse to wage war on Iraq. Operation Rockingham, established by the Defence Intelligence Staff within the Ministry of Defence in 1991, was set up to 'cherry-pick' intelligence proving an active Iraqi WMD programme and to ignore and quash intelligence which indicated that Saddam's stockpiles had been destroyed or wound down. The existence of Operation Rockingham has been confirmed by Scott Ritter, the former UN chief weapons inspector, and a US military intelligence officer. He knew members of the Operation Rockingham team and described the unit as 'dangerous', but insisted they were not 'rogue agents' acting without government backing. 'This policy was coming from the very highest levels,' he added. 'Rockingham was spinning reports and emphasising reports that showed non-compliance (by Iraq with UN inspections) and quashing those which showed compliance. It was cherry-picking intelligence.' Ritter and other intelligence sources say Operation Rockingham and MI6 were supplying skewed information to the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) which, Tony Blair has told the Commons, was behind the intelligence dossiers that the government published to convince the parliament and the people of the necessity of war against Iraq...The rebel Labour MP and Father of the House, Tam Dalyell, said he would raise the Sunday Herald's investigation into Operation Rockingham in the Commons on Thursday and demand an explanation from the government about selective intelligence. Ritter has also offered to give evidence to parliament."
Revealed: the secret cabal which spun for Blair
Sunday Herald, 8 June 2003

The Guardian On Operation Rockingham - 'The Very Secret Service' - Click Here

More Background Media Links
CIA challenged reliability of Blair September dossier before it was published
What the Blair September dossier actually said
The lies are leaking
The Italian connection
Right wing think tanks that pushed unknowing US public into war for oil
Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle at the heart of this agenda
British complicity - 'Operation Rockingham'
'Dark Actors' - The death of Dr Kelly and what he knew
Why Britain has gone along with all of this
How the media let humanity down - The General Kamel episode and other deceptions the press ignored before the war
Hot The Incredible Story So Far - Click Here For Full 'Fight Smart' Archives! Hot

Solar Energy, Agriculture and World Peace - click here

NATURAL LAW PARTY WESSEX
 nlpwessex@btinternet.com
www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex

... NOT!!!

Fantastic info & more interesting links ...

... thanks people ...

Evidently the complete lack of response to my rational scientific explanation above reveals that many people posting here are simply not interested in rational scientific explanations.

Interesting that the only response I can find is from someone who asked for my qualifications. Funny isn't it that no-one peddling whacky theories is challenged for qualifications, only someone providing rational scientific explanations?

Clearly the mass conspiracy involving everyone outside your bedroom (including me no doubt) is far more exciting.