some Jerry Sadowitz style humour for you:


you just posted a word for word BBC article

which has a title
that suggests it is an appeal for witnesses

but has the purpose of reinforcing the
government line of immigrant fearmongering and
justifying MURDER by backing the party line


just notice the tone of the shit they are printing

its very sinister

are they searching for more witnesses to SILENCE???

anyone who around the Oval/ Stockwell Northern line area
on the day of the Menezes MURDER

please come forward and die


oh ...and by the way

anyone who around the Oval/ Stockwell Northern line area
on the 7th of July

anyone who around the Picadilly line area north of
Kings Cross

who witnessed Special ops planting bombs on trains
around 6-30 til 8 am


please come forward and die, too
you will be herded onto a bus for a little ride


thank you

this has been a public service announcement
on behalf of the NU-Labour fascist party

your statuatory rights ARE AFFECTED

DONT PANIC!

Witnesses should NOT contact the 'independent police complaints commission'!
They should contact the lawyer of the de Menezes family, namely Gareth Peirce of Birnberg Peirce and co.

Don't help the murderers! Help the family of the victim!

Witnesses should contact the de Menezes family lawyer, Gareth Peirce of Birnberg Peirce and co.

Don't bother contacting the 'independent police complaints commission'.

damn right!!!!

No-one seems to have picked up on the fact that the head of investigations at the 'Independent' Police Complaints Commission, Roy Clark, who is leading the inquiry into the death of Jean Charles de Menezes, is former Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Roy Clark, who ran the Met's anti-corruption unit CIB3 'ghost squad' throughout the 1990s (see IPCC press release  http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/pa250204_clark)

So much for the police no longer investigating themselves.

CIB3 became notorious for its failures under Clark's watch, at a time when the former Commissioner Paul Condon had said there were over 200 corrupt officers in the Met. The worst of these failures involved the murder of private investigator Daniel Morgan (see  http://www.justice4daniel.org/) and most famously the allegations of corruption involving the father of one of Stephen Lawrence's murderers.

Anyway, if any witnesses want to contact Birnberg Peirce, their contact details are:

14 Inverness Street
Camden
London NW1 7HJ

tel: 020 7911 0166 fax: 020 7911 0170

It wouldn't have occurred to anyone here, I'm sure, that the IPCC investigation into the Stockwell shooting doesn't affect the family's right to take their own legal action, either as a civil claim for damages or a private prosecution if necessary.

I wonder whose interests are served by encouraging people not to come forward as witnesses to the IPCC. If a government minister or police officer said such a thing, there'd be outrage, and quite rightly so.

Copwatcher's stunning revelation that the IPCC employ former police officers to gather evidence for their investigations is not news, it's public knowledge. To find this out, you need to do no more cunning research than to read their own website. If this comes as a surprise to anyone, it just shows how ignorant you are of how the IPCC works.

Does this mean that the police are investigating themselves? The difference between the IPCC and the old system is that the people with the power in the IPCC - the commissioners - aren't and can't be serving or former police. The IPCC performs a similar role in their investigations to the police's role in every other potentially criminal matter. They gather evidence and forward it to the CPS. To do this, you need evidence gathering skills and experience. No guesses as to where you can find such people. But the relevant point is that the people in charge aren't police or former police, nor are they so stupid as to allow potentially malign investigators with police symapthies to sweep relevant evidence under the carpet.

I'd welcome suggestions as to how anyone thinks a publicly-funded independent police regulator can be devised otherwise. If not publicly-funded, how else would you do it?

People can make up their own minds whether they want to co-operate with the IPCC investigation. I'd simply say that they are as independent as it is possible to be while still being publicly funded, and they have the power and resources to investigate this matter and will most definitely recommend prosecution if it's warranted.

The obvious outcome if witnesses decide not to contact the IPCC is that the IPCC will definitely not be able to gather enough evidence to recommend a prosecution. At which point, no doubt, many people on here will crow that it's a cover-up and the IPCC is a government stooge.

If you think that prosecution is definitely warranted having not seen all the evidence, then you are a stranger to any civilised concept of justice. It remains to be borne out by the full facts as they become known. I fully support a prosecution of the police officers who shot De Menezes if the evidence suggests one, and would back the right of a jury to come to a verdict based on that evidence.

By all means contact the family's lawyers if you want. Nothing the IPCC does or does not do diminishes their right to take independent action. I wouldn't assume that they won't also be forwarding evidence to the IPCC and supporting their investigation, though.

The brother of a murdered private investigator Daniel Morgan has criticised the IPCC over the appointment of former Met Deputy Assistant Commissioner Roy Clark as leader of the inquiry into the shooting of John Charles Menezes, the Brazilian shot by police at Stockwell underground station.

"The IPCC have forfeited the appearance of independence before a single statement has been taken" said Daniel Morgan's brother Alastair, "by appointing a former Met officer of senior rank to investigate his former colleagues. This is not the way to create confidence in a new watchdog. I am also concerned that 85% of the IPCC's investigators were once government employees such as police officers and customs investigators".

"I doubt that the Menezes family will get truth or accountability from the new IPCC".

The Morgan family still have concerns over the failure of four police investigations to resolve allegations of police involvement in Daniel Morgan's murder. Whilst serving with the Met, Roy Clark was in overall charge of a third inquiry in 1998-2000.

"Roy Clark carried out this investigation almost entirely behind our backs" says Alastair Morgan. "We still have concerns about this inquiry today. He also misled us about the quality of previous inquiries and did all he could to stop us getting fair access to a report from an outside inquiry into the murder. I raised these issues with the IPCC Chairman Nick Hardwick when I heard of Mr Clark's appointment as director of investigations for the IPCC. Mr Hardwick replied that he had full confidence in Roy Clark".

The Morgan family's MPs Roger Williams and Emily Thornbury have held a series of meetings with the Home Office and Metropolitan Police Authority over the case. They have also been granted public funding to challenge a decision by the Home Office refusing to order a public inquiry into the murder. Since the last inquiry ended in 2004, the family have forced disclosure through the high court of two police reports on the murder.

"We strongly suspect after reading these reports that the failure to resolve the issue of police involvement in Daniel's murder has been by design rather than police frailty or circumstances", says Alastair Morgan. "I fear that this agenda appears virtually all cases of state criminality or delinquency and that this will continue until real independence is assured".

The family's MP, Roger Williams, has also spoken out in support of the family's concerns:

"The Morgan family and I are all too familiar with the lack of accountability, transparency and independence of the police watchdog". As far as we are concerned, the so called sweeping reforms of the police force which took place in 2001 and which created the IPPC out of the old PCA are merely old wine in new bottles. How the government can argue that having 85% of ex law enforcement officers inside the regulator will produce a fair and impartial judgement, I simply fail to understand.

'The mishandling of the Daniel Morgan murder has left Roy Clark and his associates with many serious allegations of police corruption still hanging over their heads. Let us hope that the Menezes family are not subject to the same fate.'

For correspondence with Roy Clark and more - see www.justice4daniel.org

 http://www.justice4daniel.org/pages/documents/press_releases/press_release03.htm

Great cut-and-paste critique of the IPCC.

So now you need to answer:

1. Where you can find competent, experienced investigators with evidence-gathering skills.
2. Given that the IPCC are publicly-funded, they are government employees. Does this compromise their impartiality?
3. Who would you like to investigate complaints against the police, and how would you fund them? Private investigators? Security companies? The complainants? Would they be any more independent?
4. How writing off the IPCC investigation is more likely to get justice for De Menezes and his family, given that they still have the right to take independent legal action and use evidence from the IPCC to support it.

I think everyone understands how very difficult it is to regulate the police and to build public confidence in that system given the history of internal or non-regulation. We would all welcome your suggestions for improvement. Somehow, I think you might find thinking of credible solutions to difficult problems a great deal more difficult than stating the obvious.

Please feel free to use the "we don't need police anyway" option so we all know exactly where you stand.

I have been trying to sus where Zorro's at or what kind of life stlye he or she might have led.
can't say that i can really get me head round it ? surely he aint ever been nicked for doing nowt and found himself in a situation where old bill is also trying to to plant a half ounce of hash on him or something similar.
If Zorro had lived on the street for a while he/ she would realize that most cops cannot be trusted to tell the truth in any situation. Although their are one or two good apples in the rotting barrel, that I will admit and once or twice I have been very thankfull for the honest cop. I could go into to detail but I will not.
I think Junior murvins song Police and thieves , sums it up very well and the clashes version will do nicely.
I wonder what all the familys of all the good folks that have died in police custody over the years would make of Zorro and his slick comments, mincemeat I guess but I an me a vegetarian....

Z cars more like ..