London: Explosion Updates
collected reports | 07.07.2005 20:00
Several hurt in Tube 'explosion'
Passengers were evacuated from King's Cross station
Several people have been injured after explosions blamed on a power surge led to the whole London Underground network being closed down until further notice.
British Transport Police said some of the power surges had caused explosions.
A City of London Police spokesman said there were "quite a large number of casualties" at Aldgate Station.
A bus was ripped apart in an explosion in central London, an eyewitness told news agency PA, and there were reports of at least one fatality.
PA also quoted Union officials as saying sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground.
British Transport Police Surges took place at Aldgate, Edgware Road, King's Cross, Old Street and Russell Square stations.
Scotland Yard confirmed they were assisting with a "major incident" and said there were casualties.
A spokesman said officers were called out to Aldgate station at 8.50am to assist City of London and British Transport Police.
"All of the emergency services are on scene. There have been some casualties. This has been declared as a major incident," said the spokesman. "It's too early to state what has happened at this stage," he said.
The National Grid, which supplies power to the Underground, said there had been no problems with its system which could have contributed to the incidents.
'Screaming and crying'
Jacqui Head, from BBC News, who had just left King's Cross station on a Piccadilly Line train as an explosion happened, said: "Everything was normal. Suddenly there was a massive bang, the train jolted.
"There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying."
The train was kept in the tunnel for 20 minutes and no announcement was made to explain the delay to passengers, she added.
London Fire Brigade said four crews were at Liverpool Street and more were on their way.
Another passenger, who had left the Tube at Fenchurch Street Station, and walked to Aldgate East, told BBC Five Live that he saw injured people.
"As I walked through the bus station I could see people lying on the ground, black, as if they'd been covered in smoke. There were about three or four people on the floor being treated."
Eyewitness Paul Woloszyn from BBC News, who was at Blackhorse Road station on the Victoria Line, said: "We were told there was a bomb at Liverpool Street station.
"I was on the Tube, and they stopped the train and told everyone to get off and evacuate the station."
He said staff had said the entire Tube network had been affected, and leaflets had been handed out with details of alternative bus routes.
Another eyewitness, Dorothy Molloy, had been on a Tube train at King's Cross and said "staff just chucked everyone out of the station".
She said staff there had not given any details, but she said two passengers she had spoken to had said they had received messages saying there had been bombs.
"People didn't really know what was going on, they were just huffing and puffing and saying how annoying it was," she said.
"People don't seem to be panicked, but there's so many police and ambulances coming into the areas. People are just concerned, and some are just annoyed at the delay."
If you're in the area we would like to hear from you. Send us your comments using the form below including if possible a phone number. If you have any pictures please send them to
yourpics@bbc.co.uk or by mobile phone to 07921 648159.
Passengers were evacuated from King's Cross station
Several people have been injured after explosions blamed on a power surge led to the whole London Underground network being closed down until further notice.
British Transport Police said some of the power surges had caused explosions.
A City of London Police spokesman said there were "quite a large number of casualties" at Aldgate Station.
A bus was ripped apart in an explosion in central London, an eyewitness told news agency PA, and there were reports of at least one fatality.
PA also quoted Union officials as saying sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground.
British Transport Police Surges took place at Aldgate, Edgware Road, King's Cross, Old Street and Russell Square stations.
Scotland Yard confirmed they were assisting with a "major incident" and said there were casualties.
A spokesman said officers were called out to Aldgate station at 8.50am to assist City of London and British Transport Police.
"All of the emergency services are on scene. There have been some casualties. This has been declared as a major incident," said the spokesman. "It's too early to state what has happened at this stage," he said.
The National Grid, which supplies power to the Underground, said there had been no problems with its system which could have contributed to the incidents.
'Screaming and crying'
Jacqui Head, from BBC News, who had just left King's Cross station on a Piccadilly Line train as an explosion happened, said: "Everything was normal. Suddenly there was a massive bang, the train jolted.
"There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying."
The train was kept in the tunnel for 20 minutes and no announcement was made to explain the delay to passengers, she added.
London Fire Brigade said four crews were at Liverpool Street and more were on their way.
Another passenger, who had left the Tube at Fenchurch Street Station, and walked to Aldgate East, told BBC Five Live that he saw injured people.
"As I walked through the bus station I could see people lying on the ground, black, as if they'd been covered in smoke. There were about three or four people on the floor being treated."
Eyewitness Paul Woloszyn from BBC News, who was at Blackhorse Road station on the Victoria Line, said: "We were told there was a bomb at Liverpool Street station.
"I was on the Tube, and they stopped the train and told everyone to get off and evacuate the station."
He said staff had said the entire Tube network had been affected, and leaflets had been handed out with details of alternative bus routes.
Another eyewitness, Dorothy Molloy, had been on a Tube train at King's Cross and said "staff just chucked everyone out of the station".
She said staff there had not given any details, but she said two passengers she had spoken to had said they had received messages saying there had been bombs.
"People didn't really know what was going on, they were just huffing and puffing and saying how annoying it was," she said.
"People don't seem to be panicked, but there's so many police and ambulances coming into the areas. People are just concerned, and some are just annoyed at the delay."
If you're in the area we would like to hear from you. Send us your comments using the form below including if possible a phone number. If you have any pictures please send them to
yourpics@bbc.co.uk or by mobile phone to 07921 648159.
collected reports
Comments
Hide the following 123 comments
Terrorist attack.
07.07.2005 09:39
Doug.
Sad Deluded, and Offencise Fool
07.07.2005 10:16
Lets get this straight. You think that the state or someone linked has bombed the tube in order to impose tough anti-terror laws and hence help usher in a police state, presumably in order to expedite the imposition of the new world order or whatever. You might even blame the Illuminati or the UN or some crap, I don't know or care.
Get a grip. Take the medication. Consider getting a basic education. But most of all, shut the fek up unless you can produce some sort of cogent argument or evidence.
Big Bad Bob
PA News: 2nd Explosion on London Bus in Tavistock Square
07.07.2005 10:21
PA newswire | 07.07.2005 10:53 | London
PA NEWS FLASH
-----
Timed at 10:45BST 09:45GMT
------
-----
PA NEWS FLASH
-----
Timed at 10:45BST 09:45GMT
Police sources have confirmed a second suspected blast on a London Bus in Tavistock Square
Ends
------
PA newswire
moved by admin
Explosions on London Transport
07.07.2005 10:23
dh | 07.07.2005 10:45
Explosions reported on Underground network - now entirely shut down.
Bus reported as having had its roof blown off.
Explosions at Aldgate, Edgeware Road, Marylebone
Fatalities and serious injuries reported
Gleneagles? Olympic 'win'
Great timing assholes
Wishing Londoners well
dh
moved by admin
london appears to be under terrorist attack
07.07.2005 10:27
rikki | 07.07.2005 11:22 | Indymedia | London
an apparently co-ordinated series of bombs and other incidents occured across the capital around 8.30 to 9 this morning. mainstream media reports are very confused, but it seems that at least one bus has been blown up with serious injuries and probable fatalities.
an apparently co-ordinated series of bombs and other incidents occured across the capital around 8.30 to 9 this morning. mainstream media reports are very confused, but it seems that at least one bus has been blown up with serious injuries and probable fatalities. there are confused reports of more bombed buses - it seems very strange that these reports haven't at least been confirmed by mobile phone witnesses or even video phone images. on the other hand, there have also been reports of the mobile phone system being at least in part closed down. this may be because of fears of remote detonation of bombs as per the madrid bombings. on the on the tube system, reports are of a 'power surge' which seemed to cause a bang and masses of soot - six stations have been definitely affected by some sort of blast. while casualties have so far been played down on the underground attacks, it was reported that a hotel near royal london hospital has been taken over for use as triage and that casualties have been arriving at all london hospitals!
rikki
moved by admin
bomb or train crash/ witness report on BBC 24
07.07.2005 10:34
paul c | 07.07.2005 11:08
what is really going on
witness on BBC24
there has been many incidents
but a policeman told her
of a train crash
??????????????????
can anyone verify
my regards and thoughts go out
to all at SOHO firestation
and the rest of the emergency services
our thoughts are with you
love
Paul & Carmen
paul c
moved by admin
Chaos in London following multiple explosions.
07.07.2005 10:37
caro | 07.07.2005 11:25 | Social Struggles | London | World
Coverage of the G8 has been knocked off the news by multiple explosions in the centre of London - some dead.
Police originally blamed the first two explosions on the Underground (At Aldgate East and Edgware Road) on a “power surge”, but the first bomb, which ripped apart a double- decker bus in Tavistock Square leading to unconfirmed fatalities led to Met admissions that this “may be terrorist related”. A second bomb in Houndsditch has been confirmed.
At 11.18 Police confirmed six explosions and one collision on the Underground, and one hospital reports receiving 90 casualties. Fatalities have occurred but the number is so far unconfirmed by emergency services.
The entire London Transport system - underground and buses - has now been closed down. Trains are being stopped as far outside London as Chelmsford. Londoners are being asked to stay in their homes and off the streets, and to avoid calling the emergency services unless their lives are threatened.
Casualty info line for concerned friends and relatives to be announced shortly.
Blair has anounced that he will be staying at the G8 summit, not returning to London.
caro
e-mail:
link
London Underground attacks "almost certainly" related to Al Quaeda
07.07.2005 10:52
Katie Lowe | 07.07.2005 11:37
The BBC have revealed in the last few minutes that their sources believe the terrorist attacks in London are "almost certainly the work of Al Quaeda."
At least six explosions have taken place in London, and it is believed that there are at least twenty fatalities and ninety injuries, according to police in London. The BBC believe this is now the work of terrorist organisation Al Quaeda.
The attacks took place on Edgeware Road, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street, Aldgate East and Moorgate, and a bus exploded in Russell Square, injuring many people both on the bus and passers by.
All transport has been disabled and people in London are asked not to call the emergency services unless involved in a very serious incident.
Katie Lowe
e-mail:
link
statement
07.07.2005 10:53
pleeeeeese
dont assert that i dont care
im in tears
as i type
sad sad day
my wife is a firefighter with 15 years
of experience who used to work in SOHO
we have friends involved
who are putting their lives on the line
she could have caught in this
she puts her life on the line every time
she puts on her uniform
she has had to get away from the TV
because its really affecting her
we care
our thoughts are with you SOHO
and the rest of the emergency services
love
paul & Carmen
paul c
Bombs/ power surge on London underground
07.07.2005 10:58
by Me
Bombs to coincide with G8 summit?
Bomb blasts plunge London into chaos
By Neil McIntosh / UK news 11:20am
A series of bomb blasts have hit central London today.
Tell us your experiences by emailing us at
The situation is developing very quickly. We have no news yet of the number of injuries, or deaths, although eyewitnesses quoted on the BBC say there are a number of bodies under sheets, in several locations in the city.
We'll update this post as news comes in. Obviously, our front page will also be constantly updating as well.
1150 It has been confirmed that two people have been killed at Aldgate station this morning.
1140 Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair is being quoted by PA as saying traces of explosives have been found at least one blast scene. He added the picture was still "very confused".
1130 Police at Aldgate Station say there are unconfirmed reports of two fatalities there, and nine seriously injured.
A PA report just in from Aldgate: "A 42-year-old man wept as he described what happened on the train. Terry O'Shea, a construction worker from Worcester, said: "I was in the third carriage, the one behind the one where the explosion was. There was a loud bang and we felt the train shudder. Then smoke started coming in to the compartment. It was terrible. People were panicking, but they calmed down after one or two minutes. As they led us down the track past the carriage where the explosion was, we could see the roof was torn off it, and there were bodies on the track."
Jack Linton, 14, suffered cuts to his face in the incident. Jack, from Hawkwell, Essex, who was on his way to work experience at a company, said: "The middle of the train was blown out and there were people on the track."
1120 Tony Blair will be making a live, televised statement on the crisis at midday. Sir Ian Blair, Metropolitan Police Commissioner, has told the BBC that there have been six explosions so far today, one on a bus. In what is clearly intended to be a calming message, he asks that Londoners stay where they are, do not call the emergency services unless there is a life-threatening situation, and promises there will be more information. London's emergency plan has kicked into action, and he says they are "returning order to the situation".
1110 PA is reporting fears of "many" dead after a series of what are now, patently, terrorist bomb blasts around the city. Eyewitness reports talk of terrible injuries, and "many fatalities".
1102 The pictures coming in from around the city are truly shocking. Down near Holborn there's a bus - possibly one of the big tourist buses that are a fixture on the London streets - with its top floor ripped apart. One report talks of the injured being operated on in the concourse at Liverpool Street station.
1055 There are now reports of another bomb going off - in Houndsitch, near Liverpool Street in the City of London.
1052 The FTSE has plunged 160 points, but Downing Street says rumours that Tony Blair is to return to London from Gleneagles are false.
1048 Home Secretary Charles Clarke has just appeared in front of Downing Street, talking of "dreadful" incidents, and "terrible injuries" in the explosions. He is sending sympathy to those individuals and families affected. The COBRA committee - the government's emergency response body - is meeting, as is the Cabinet.
1040 We're hearing that there's a train stuck between Liverpool Street and Aldgate, and that there are "a number of casualties" on that train.
1030 The situation so far: we are hearing of a bus explosion in the Holborn area - eyewitness accounts talk of the bus having its roof blown off. This casts some doubt on reports that "power surges" caused explosions at Aldgate, Old Street, Kings Cross, Russell Square and Edgware Road earlier this morning.
Around the city centre, everyone is walking. The tube is entirely closed down. Mainline trains are not coming into town, and members of staff arriving in the office say buses are not entering Zone 1 - the most central part of town, in which all today's explosions have taken place.
The first problems started at around 0850, when a series of explosions - blamed on power surges - rocked a series of stations in the centre of town. Tube lines started closing right after that.
moved by admin
Strategy of tension?
07.07.2005 11:07
Anon
terror attacks in london today
07.07.2005 11:09
by dream spirit
my first impression
well they finally attacked london...the timing is alsmost too perfect it almost seems surreal...attempting to wipe the smile off the smug war criminal political liar blair's face...just one day after london got the olympics...its as if the IOC decision and now this terror attack will take the minds of the G8 leaders focus away from africa and climate change(or give them an excuse to).i for one did not want london to get the olympics...these events only end up being a burden to ordinary tax payers for years to come.they wasted money billions on the "dome" now they will do the same on an even bigger scale with the 2012 olympics...and one day afer the IOC granted the games to the capital city they show they cannot prevent a major terror attack...and would id cards have stopped this....NO.these terror attacks are as sensless as they are despicable...but once again we will see our political leaders use them to control us and restrict our freedom.
it really is a mad fcked up world.i don't have any answers only to say that while ever there are glaring injustices left unattended to people in those oppressed parts of the world will carry out desperate acts of the nature we see in london today.
dreamspirit
link
Such a perfect democracy...
07.07.2005 11:18
Anon
Homepage:
http://www.notbored.org/commentaires.html
Israel warned of explosions
07.07.2005 11:31
paulo | 07.07.2005 12:04 | Indymedia | London
Israel warned by Scotland Yard of explosions
Senior Israeli officials were apparently warned by Scotland Yard
of explosions in London minutes before the first blasts were reported.
paulo
===================================
Comments
Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast
07.07.2005 12:28
This confirms your anchor's earlier comments...
Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast
13:30 Jul 07, '05 / 30 Sivan 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Army Radio quoting unconfirmed reliable sources reported a short time ago that Scotland Yard had intelligence warnings of the attacks a short time before they occurred.
The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance, resulting in Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room rather than make his way to the hotel adjacent to the site of the first explosion, a Liverpool Street train station, where he was to address and economic summit.
At present, train and bus service in London have been suspended following the series of attacks. No terrorist organization has claimed responsibility at this time.
Israeli officials stress the advanced Scotland Yard warning does not in any way indicate Israel was the target in the series of apparent terror attacks.
------
I should add there's a big Israeli Economic Conference at a Liverpool St Hotel today - now cancelled, but the 250 guests included Benjamin 'Bibi' Netenyahu (sp?) and the Israeli ambassador.
[opinion] So why were no warnings given in London? So we all go to work anyway - our leaders consider losses among us an acceptable price to keep business going, we've seen it before many times.... the IRA used to give warnings, the Yard would clain they were too late to be useful.
Chromatius
link
appaling phot used in news report
07.07.2005 11:32
is this approproate?
paul c
london travel update
07.07.2005 11:47
by clay pigeon
12:20 pm
From BBC Radio London
Update on travel - people are advised not to go into central London at all.
Tube network shut
Buses in Zone 1 not operating
National Express bus in/out London not operating
National Rail - trains terminating at varioous locations outside London depending on the company.
Eurostar operating, but Eurostar asks people not to travel to continent- all tickets will be honoured.
link
G8 protesters
07.07.2005 11:50
Concerned
Big Bad Bob...
07.07.2005 11:51
Come on. Those of us with friends and family in the area are still trying to get through to check they're OK. Have some fucking sympathy.
Londoner
Central London quiet
07.07.2005 11:53
Graham | 07.07.2005 12:09
Central London (Tottenham Court Road, where I am) is eerily quiet with only the odd siren every ten minutes or so.
A little bit of movement has returned on the pavements, but people are still mostly clustered round TV shops, and there are still no vehicles other than the emergency services moving. Our mobiles seem to be back on now, it isn't clear how far they were just overloaded before and how far the service was switched off for fear of remote control uses.
Graham
link
Big Bad Bob - delusional or troll?
07.07.2005 12:00
The devices themselves appear to have been realtively small, well -timed and well co-ordinated. Relatively light casualties against massive disruption and media coverage.
We have already seen Blair (a little too measured for my liking, and making no eye contact) bemoaning barbarism while "we (G8)discuss helping africa and tackling the environment".
Had it been a real terrorist attack why not sarin or anthrax?
Why not a real target, military or economic?
Why wait till Blair is out of town?
Add to that the difficulties being encountered with the ID cards, and the problems they must be encountering in how best to dress up the impending invasions of Iran & Syria, motive is clearly evident.
The nearest recent parallel in terms of method was Madrid. Despite immediate attempts to pin it on the domestically politically expedient (ETA) and then on the internationally expedient Al Quaida, there remain neither reliable evidence nor convictions. There is however clear echoes of a Misgarot (mossad) false flag operation, Something at which they excel.
Pentos
Updates : 12.30 - 1pm
07.07.2005 12:12
They were hoping to give fuller details within the hour, a hospital spokesman said.
ITV - "seen fire service go down there with cutting equipment" [Russell Sq]
PA wire 12"36 - "Superintendent Jon Morgan of the Metropolitan Police said there had been a number of fatalities as well as serious casualties at Edgware Road station, but could not give a precise figure.
All the dead and injured had been moved from the scene, which was now being examined forensically.
He said: "We can tell you that there have been a number of casualties and serious casualties as well as what the London Ambulance term the walking wounded.
"There has been a number of fatalities, we are unable to give you an exact number."
Describing the incident he said: "We understand that shortly before 9am there was an explosion on board a train coming into Edgware Tube Station."
claim of alquaida letter:
ITV News24: " ABOUT 150 SERIOUSLY HURT IN LONDON BOMB BLASTS"
Davis in HOC asks: what measures to be put in place? what plans to inform public? will Clarke or Blair make statement on Monday?
PA wire 12:49 - "Terrorists calling themselves the Secret Organization Group of al Qaida of Jihad Organization in Europe today claimed responsibility for the London attacks on an Islamic website.
1309 deaths confirmed at edgeware road - two trains were caught in explosion
updates
Barts say 95 injuries so far
07.07.2005 12:27
Major incident statement from Barts and The London NHS Trust
7 July 2005
The Royal London Hospital responded immediately this morning when informed about a major incident.
The Helicopter Emergency Medical Service (HEMS) was immediately despatched along with mobile medical response teams.
They were able to start treating patients at the scene, stabilising their condition before they were moved to our Accident and Emergency Department.
A total of 95 casualties have been brought in to the hospital so far. Many are being treated for minor injuries such as superficial cuts. However ten patients are seriously ill and seven are in a critical condition. Some have significant orthopaedic injuries requiring immediate surgery.
The Royal London Hospital has a well-rehearsed plan that is put in place as soon as a major incident is declared. We are fully equipped to deal with incidents such as this and are fortunate to have one of the leading accident and emergency departments in the country with particular expertise in treating trauma patients. All patients will receive the highest standard of care.
Press office pager number: 07659 139655
Press office phone number: 020 7480 4891
update
Canary Wharf shooting?
07.07.2005 12:27
xilo
more info
07.07.2005 12:29
update
Concerned about the quality of postings
07.07.2005 12:49
Londoner
I don't believe I'm reading this
07.07.2005 12:54
There's no point in arguing. You're nuts. You'll just respond with the same kind of flimsy crap you always do. No wonder you feel ignored.
Paranoid Pete
Reality check time
07.07.2005 13:05
New Yorker
actually Bob
07.07.2005 13:06
got that?
simple really
do I trust the media?
the BBC, who ran on the news with the following
on Tuesday 5th July i think it was:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. lead story
Olympic Bid
[report hooraying the bid showing the celebrity sports fuckwits]
2.Riots in Edinburgh
[ooh those naughty clowns]
3.climate change [G8 propaganda]
followed by a magazine style piece
4. China using too much energy
and buying consumer goods
[a ladies car was referred to her bug eyed baby]
5. UK spending down shocker
[is this cos we're being scared by climate change stories or what?]
6.Iraq war casualties
[paul wood, propagandist...presented a story about
limbless soldiers referred to as peacekeepers]
and finally
7. Live 8 artists have announce record profits and sales after the concert
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
accept that this is propaganda
accept that ...whoever did these bombings
it will be spun to the governments advantage
by the mouthpiece BBC
paul c
The War Has ComeHome;let's nonviolently resist it wherever it is,wherever we are
07.07.2005 13:09
Anarcho Pacifist
need to get it under control
07.07.2005 13:09
a reader
American dillusionment?
07.07.2005 13:09
My thoughts with those caught up in the attacks and their backlash.
Sarah
Sarah
e-mail:
sarah.kerton@gmail.com
Explosions in London
07.07.2005 13:26
Ali Sharp | 07.07.2005 13:55
Bomb attacks target trains, tube stations and a bus.
A series of explosions have rocked central London this morning, with two casualities already confirmed and many more expected. Hospitals across the city are only treating life-threatening situations, while ambulances are treating less serious injuries.
Seven blasts went off within three hours, at five tube stations and on a bus. The transport network has been completely shut down. The first blast went off just after 9am at Aldgate station, near the financial district. A second blast then went off at Edgeware Rd station. Then, a massive blast ripped the roof off a bus in Tavistock Square. There was now no doubt that this was a planned attack. Further attacks occured in Russell Square, Liverpool St and Kings Cross tube stations.
Tony Blair has rushed back to London from the G8 Summit in Gleneagles, but not before hosting an impromptu press conference flanked by world leaders where he shakily announced "we condemn these barbaric attacks...those responsible have no respect for human life ....we are united in our resolve to fight this attack...on civilised people everywhere. we will not allow violence to change our society or its values. We will continue our deliberation to create a better world."
It is widely beleived that this is an act of Islamist violence that may have been timed to coincide with the G8 Summit currently taken place in Gleneagles.
Ali Sharp
Homepage: http://
link
what the hell?
07.07.2005 13:28
How many have died? 2, 20, 200? the figures are changing all over the net.
Whos looking the most likely to have done it? I came on the net to get a clearer picture coss the Blair-Bush coaltions keeping its mouth shut and the BBC just seem to be scare mongering. Al-Qu? the state? accident? wats going on?
Further more I think it would help if people wernt leturing on this thing, we need facts not porpaganda, I've come to expet more from indymedia. We all pretty much agree on ideologies so shut the hell up and start reporting.
By the way is anyone else scared?
duke
Get a Grip!
07.07.2005 13:30
To our dopey friends - Anthrax and Sarin are useless as terrorist weapons whereas bombs are easy and effective, and the reason the tube was targetted is that it's the most obvious target, predicting an attack there is hardly an example of superior insight.
None of which takes away from the facts that the idiot Blair has chosen to put us all in the front line by picking a fight with Iraq and that the Islamists have again proven themselves to be fascists with no regard for human life or class politics. A plague on both their houses.
Chris Bright
e-mail:
cbright@cix.co.uk
repercussions
07.07.2005 13:31
nz noobie
Homepage:
http://www.indymedia.org.nz
No.30 bus destroyed
07.07.2005 13:35
North London John
north london john
e-mail:
northlondonjohn [at] yahoo.co.uk
...
07.07.2005 13:47
Imperialism breeds terrorism. Stop them both.
Hermes
Conspiracies
07.07.2005 13:49
Jim
STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE
07.07.2005 13:55
Knowledge
War hasComeHome-let's Nonviolently resist it, whereever it is, whereever we are!
07.07.2005 13:57
The images of boodstained commuters, young, old, children, parents duplicate the images from Iraq. There is no evidence of respect for human life or pretence for harm minimisation with no-warning bombs like this and the those delivered by the RAF & USAF. There has been a dangerous vacuum left by the absence of an active nonviolent ati-war movement in the countries waging a horrorific war in the Middle East & Afgahnistan. This vacuum has been filled by the cycle of vengeance and violence.
We need to nonviolently resist this war wherever we are, whereever it is.
Anarcho Pacifist
Hello everybody, Hi Dr Who!
07.07.2005 13:57
Have you seen 'One Man And His Dog' recently? I don't know about you but I think those viscious looking sheepdogs are going to go crazy, out of the farmers control, any minute now and start attacking the sheep. Quick sheep! Get in the pen, get in the pen.
Whats that whistleing?
Alex
'and you will reap what is sown..'
07.07.2005 13:59
To assume it is the work of the 'security' services before we have any real knowledge about the events is quite naive. Though all the people who unquestioningly accept the establishment view and condem all other views as 'unsympathetic' or 'deluded' are equally as jaded and ignorant. Please don't trust the media or the self proclaimed leaders to give you the picture of events! ----Research!---
The most important thing we can do in all this is to ensure that it isn't used by the governing institutions to manipulate us into not resisting even more legislation that further oppresses us. Security is the opposite of freedom.
Without wanting to dignify the notion that increased 'security' really does lower the risk of terrorism, I'd rather live in a freer society with an incresed risk of injury, than leave my children to grow up in some sort of psudo-orwellian utopia..
And to bring it all into contex, look at the news from Iraq and Afganistan lately... this is what they have to put up with almost daily..
Blair; what the Fuc£ did you expect would happen when you send people around the world to kill others!!?!?
Terrorists; you have proven yourselves to be no better than the violent thugs killing your neigbours in the name of 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'
"The terrorists who will not accept 'peace' fighting the Horrorists who will enforce it at any cost"
Imagine a society where we didn't need to put up with this $hit.
xxx.Peace Love Harmony.xxx
@
Paranoid Pete believes in phony Al Qaeda conspiracy theory
07.07.2005 14:01
Jiminy Cricket
40 dead; 300 injured
07.07.2005 14:06
psycho sparky
is conspiracy a dirty word, or just a dirty deed?
07.07.2005 14:09
Try aquainting yourselves with, for instance, Operation Northwoods - a very real and serious, though thankfully unimplemented, US secret service planned operation to bomb US cities and kill civillians, and then blame it on Castro as a pretext to invade Cuba.
Look back to Septemebr 11 2001, where even now, even the most cursory of investigators could drive a bus throuh the official version of events.
Look back to Pearl Harbour when, it is now clearly documented, the US governemnt were well aware of the declaration of war made against it by Japan BEFORE the attacks of Dec 7 1941.
Or the sinking of the Lucitania prior to the entry of the USA into WW1.
And before you become too smug and think it could never happen here (we are British after all) remember the murder of Dr David Kelly.
Remember the lies of WMD spun to create the excuse to invade Iraq.
Remember the civillians killed by us in Bosnia and the former Yugoslav republic.
Remember those interred without trial in Belmarsh and other places like it in this, supposedly the model for judicial systems the world over.
There is clear evidence that governments are quite willing to sacrifice the rule of law and their own people to further political agendas. To assume otherwise is simply naive.
The people who are trying to globalise our world and centralise control and goverment have complete control of the mainstream media - if you are so ready to blindly accept their version of events, what the hell are you doing here?
pentos
Reply to 'Jim,' and praise to the emergency services
07.07.2005 14:23
Why on earth would the British Government do this? With Russia, there was a motive (however tenuous) but in Britain, the best motive that I can expect anyone to come up with is "it'll get ID cards in more quickly" - hardly something worth killing over, and not something which would have stopped these attacks.
Occam's Razor people! Why does everyone look for the most complicated explaination.
I for one am proud of our emergency services who are doing an amazing, textbook job- they're cleaning this mess up and making things safe more quickly and efficiently than anyone could hope for.
Enough of the Blair bashing. I defy anyone to pick holes in his statement without distorting it beyond recognition. The man was genuinely upset.
And the Idiots comparing this to the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan need their heads examined.
Duncan
What is the supposed political agenda?
07.07.2005 14:28
Remember- an atrocity like this could have happened several times before, but attempts have continually been foiled by the security services.
Duncan
Maybe its space alients...
07.07.2005 14:36
Consider:
You have no real evidence to support this whole CIA/MI5 global conspracy scam. You mould the facts to suit your warped world view , sieze on half truths as incontovertible truth, and put down anyone who has the brains to consider carefully and logically the facts before them.
And see, no argument wins against this kind of entrenched ideology of yours. Same with gun nuts in the states, racists, the loons who blame the illuminati, and so on.
David Icke wouldn't have you. Even he thinks you're all barking.
Weary
Alex...
07.07.2005 14:38
Londoner (2)
Alex... 2
07.07.2005 14:40
Londoner (2)
Causes
07.07.2005 14:56
If it was aimed at the G8 wouldn't they have aimed it at the G8 leaders?
I utterly condemn and hate anyone who carries out any attack on the innocent, there is never a good reason for murder.
It does no good for any cause, for any god, for any person.
Kath Holliday
e-mail:
otter@blueyonder.co.uk
Ah the old conspiracy theory strikes again
07.07.2005 15:06
Jim claimed - I kid you not - that "the real movers and shakers covertly collude to start and stop wars, manipulate stock markets and interest rates, maintain class distinctions, and even censor the six o'clock news. And they do all this under the mindful auspices of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, the CIA, and even the Vatican".
Presumably they are also responsible for toast falling butter side down, that time your car battery went flat, and me getting a lousy 2:1 because I spent most of my univeristy career in the Union drinking Heavy and Lager.
The trouble with the internet, and this kind of site, is that it hoovers up the kind of pointless unproven rubbish by conspiracy theorists and anti-capatilist types alike. Self-perpertuating theories are proclaimed as the truth, the converts encloaked in an evengelical fervour where all others are blind to "reality". Seemingly unconnected events are spuriously connected by tenuous threads that even Moyles' "tedious link" would find hard to stomach.
Such myths are nothing new, other than in the extent to which they are aired. Unfortunately they will never go away. The flip of this is that they are the views of the tinniest of minorities, never likely to get elected and without the wherewithal to deploy anything other than hurtful accusations.
Independent Thinker
Good God
07.07.2005 15:07
Vespucci
Tha anarchists all have alibies
07.07.2005 15:11
It cant have been any of 'your anarchists' because they where all up at the g8 protests having their
photos taken every five seconds by the police , at last we get to make use of the FIT teams !
Toodle-pip
Amias
Amias Channer
Sad Day
07.07.2005 15:18
We can only blame mankind's inherent nature to force their beliefs upon others. The only thing that keeps society going and makes peoples' lives acceptable is the opportunity to have a happy daily life. This is what random acts of terrorism destroy. All governments (no matter their ideology) act as a government and when this is done the movement is large and horrible, but then normal life eventually returns. Terrorism takes from normal life and never lets it return. There is a difference.
To all those that lost family members or have been affected by this tragedy, I am extremely sorrowful for your loss. There is no excuse for random acts of violence carried out by overly ideological individuals. To all the childish indy-media types out there, put down your random conspiracies and flaming trashcans for a goddamn minute. Be there for the wounded instead of smashing up the local Starbucks and show some real caring for once.
Nick
Homepage:
http://www.nickrioux.com
Who wants to come and stand up for Peace in Parliament Square?
07.07.2005 15:20
This is a moment when we can stand up against the escalation of terror.
Not in our Name!
We could gather in Parliament Square tomorrow evening from 6pm-9pm- this would give transportation a chance to get back and allow people time to work out how they feel.
What do you all think?
Phosphorus
Displaced anger methinks...
07.07.2005 15:42
Chris Bright seems to think so. His comment that "the Islamists have again proven themselves to be facists with no regard for human life or class politics" is both offensive and unfounded. As yet, there is NO proof that the attacks in London this morning were the work of Islamic groups, despite claims to the contrary. Even if Islamic groups ARE responsible, Bright needs to understand that NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS! The indymedia website was the LAST place I'd expect to have to make such a glaringly obvious statement! The activities of a extreme minority should NOT result in an entire sub-section of the global population being labelled in this way. Sounds to me like Mr Bright needs some help developing his faculties of understanding and tolerance re diversity and belief in wider society.
And as for playing the "class politics" card.. HA! What a joke! I wasn't aware Muslim terrorists gave much thought to the class struggle when orchestrating such attacks! On the contrary - attacking seats of power such as London and the city would appear to have the reverse effect of threatening those privileged members of our society that some would argue serve to reinforce this status quo! If New York's, Madrid's and now today's events tell us anything at all, it's that bombs don't discriminate.
Mr Bright? Sounds like his light went out a long time ago to me...
Jo
transport / id
07.07.2005 15:46
v
Canary Wharf
07.07.2005 15:57
There should be a transcript of the whole press event somewhere on the net (it was broadcast live on bbc and itv).
North London John
north london john
e-mail:
northlondonjohn [at] yahoo.co.uk
Londoner 2
07.07.2005 16:01
All those sheep on one man and his dog, they're marked with ID aren't they. I enjoy being the property of the state. Support your local mudslinger.
Alex
Condolences
07.07.2005 16:40
Old pal of mines a tube driver, and we should thank the staff and emergency services who will have saved many lives. The evil commited by a small number always sees the good and decent side of people come out. For every person looking to destroy life, a thousand or more are there to help save and heal and take chances to do so. The people fighting us do not understand what they are fighting. They are so consumed by hate that it has left them phycologically deranged.
I'm sad to see conspiricy theories thrown about and wish people would stop trying to be clever when we have people dead and dying. No-one knows for certain who is behind this as of yet. I'm sure that CCTV and credit card checks and mobile phone calls and suchlike will be carefully assessed. A thousand witnesses will be interviewed and forensic evidence carefully collected. As I write, people will be getting 'visits' and doors will be kicked down. Some will be innocent, but I hope they accept that lifes are at stake and we cannot be too concerned with upsetting people.
So far the main consensus is that this is an extreme Islamic action.
Only the most naive would dismiss this, but it is wise to wait and assess the incoming news reports.
Extremists will use the issue - Bush has already spoke of the attack as evil and tried to give it the 'big un' about how the G8, was by contrast, a decent bunch of well meaning blokes doing 'good'.
It is importent to put this attack in context- we have reports of maybe 20 dead so far - hundreds injured. Bush and Blair have been doing this on a daily basis ever since they went for the Persians and Arabs.
If the British public is clever - we will pull out of the sinking sands of Iraq and Afghanistan and look to our own interests until we have a ship with an even keel as it were. We have a lot of problems and are throwing away billions on the Iraq war oil grab.
What I find strange is that this attack has come AFTER the election. Maybe the small numbers of those involved, and the lack of support they have, means that they are already a spent force and have a limited operational strategy.
I personally don't intend to alter my lifestyle because of a few dickheads.
Forget Blair and all the corrupt weak fools who lead us - people who fuck with the English and try to bomb them into submission are on a no win road to failure.
Whoever these people are who bombed us - my message to them is simple
We've been invaded by Gauls, Saxons, Romans and Frenchies and all the rest of the Worlds 'kick ass' brigade. We've been bombed to fuck by the Germans. Thousands were killed, and entire streets flattened. We had to send all the kids away to Wales and other remote places for safety - such was the volume of bombing.
Ask yourself if the cowardly scum who planted those bombs have actually read OUR history.
I realise that those affected will be devastated - but rest assured that in the scheme of things - this attack is a pin prick.
Any lowlife loser and his mates could have theorecicly carried out this. To call this a well planned military act is a joke.
We will likely see how clever these people are when we nick them and their mates.
I'll lay money on the culprits being nabbed or found.
The IRA gave up bombing after 9/11 - they realised jaw jaw was better than war war. Anyone else thinking of violent insurrection in the UK ought to wake up. It will never happen in the manner you wish - if things do kick off it will be bad for us all. The only winners will be gangsters and politicans who wish to see freedom of speech abolished.
Once again, my condolences to the poor people affected by this attack.
Average Sensible Rebel
a sad day
07.07.2005 16:56
S
skip
e-mail:
tuxpixie@gmail.com
Homepage:
http://scumplace.blogspot.com
Reply to Jo, re Mr Bright
07.07.2005 17:06
"NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS! The indymedia website was the LAST place I'd expect to have to make such a glaringly obvious statement!"
I have to say that the need for such a statement now no longer supprises me on these pages at all. On every page there are people who assume that because of a tiny minority of "protesters" at the G8 protests, everyone who disagrees with what the G8 are doing must agree.
To all those who are lumping everyone in the same bag please understand the following:
Not all muslims are terrorists.
Not are anarchists are violent.
Not all those who support the protest are either violent or anarchists.
Indy media does not condone violence, rather it stands for the right to free speech. For this reason they will not censor the people that are posting some of the notes above, both those condoning the violence and those by closed minded people who want to tarnish everyone who may not look and think like them with the same brush.
Please be more thoughtful in your postings, and please try to be less agressive. There is enough agreesion at the moment for anybody's fill, we don't need anymore.
Mog
cunny - least emotive, most insightful
07.07.2005 17:36
One can't help but wonder at the motives of those posting here who suggest we dont bother with either analysis or theorising.
It's precisely the kind of debate we should be having, and precisely the kind of debate Bliar and his kind would rather we didnt have.
And before too many allusions are made to the great Blitz spirit, it's worth remembering that it was Churchill who first ordered the bombing of civilian targets, the retaliation for which ultimately resulted in devastation and bloodshed in London and other British cities.
If anyone I loved had been hurt or injured today, it would be the highest of my priorities to find out by whom and why.
pentos
The bombs dropped on Baghdad explode in London.
07.07.2005 17:41
Blame Bush. Blame Blair. The greatest tragedy is that Bush and Blair will use these attacks to justify and further advance their own terror campaigns.
The bombs dropped on Baghdad explode in London.
Cui Bono?
07.07.2005 18:01
Why on earth would the British Government do this? With Russia, there was a motive (however tenuous) but in Britain, the best motive that I can expect anyone to come up with is "it'll get ID cards in more quickly" - hardly something worth killing over, and not something which would have stopped these attacks.
Occam's Razor people! Why does everyone look for the most complicated explaination.
I for one am proud of our emergency services who are doing an amazing, textbook job- they're cleaning this mess up and making things safe more quickly and efficiently than anyone could hope for.
Enough of the Blair bashing. I defy anyone to pick holes in his statement without distorting it beyond recognition. The man was genuinely upset.
And the Idiots comparing this to the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan need their heads examined.
Duncan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First, I agree with Duncan that insufficient evidence has been provided that to support an accusation regarding who was behind these attacks. I feel this is true for all accusations however, not just those made against the UK, the US and Israel.
Second, to bring in Occam's Razor - the simplest conclusion right now is that no conclusion can be made. No simple explanation fits all the facts sufficiently as of yet, mostly due to few facts being known at this point. The attacks were coordinated, but were not made against military, political, financial structures that Al Qaeda has made a point of targetting in the past. (The USS Cole, embassies, WTC, Pentagon..., etc., though the London transport could represent this in a manner I am not currently aware of.) The question that should be asked is whether this was a target of opportunity (i.e., gov. and financial targets were too well guarded) or of specific purpose. Once again, I defer to the investigators before making further conclusions on this.
Third, Duncan's defense of Blair appears entirely dependent on his judgement that Blair was "genuinely upset." I think that Blair may get "genuinely upset" when he thinks about the thousands of his countrymen that have been maimed and killed in Iraq because of his pledge of support for an unnecessary war, but this hardly makes his actions automatically clean and pure.
To be clear, what I denounce in Blair's statement is his making an emotionally charged and political statement without the facts to back his conclusions. If, as he stated, they were "still trying to establish what has happened," then he should not have made conclusions regarding the perpetrators of this crime and then jumped off of that conclusion to make some grand statement about how the extremism that his people want to impose on the world through military power is greater than some terrorists' extremism. This only undermines the public's support for a proper investigation by providing unsupported allegations as 'common sense' facts.
As before, I would recommend watching, requesting information on and supporting the investigation as necessary, and looking at the larger results of this action over the next weeks and months: ID Cards, troop withdrawl from Iraq, privacy restrictions, Olympic money removed, increased military/police budgets..., etc. watch for these and then ask yourself "Cui Bono?" (Who Benefits?)
Kelly Logan
e-mail:
kellylogan4peace@yahoo.com
The reason behind it all
07.07.2005 18:11
Blair took us into America's dirty empire building wars in the middle east, he lied to us, ignored our protests and made us a target.
It is Blair's allegiance to the Neo-Conservative Reich that made this country a target.
Monty Cantsin
reply to transport / id
07.07.2005 18:28
How could it have stopped it?
If ID cards were required for train travel, how will London's MILLIONs of tourists get around? Are they to be barred? or made to feel excluded and unwelcome.
Ridiculous.
THERE IS NO AGENDA THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE FUTHERED BY THIS ATROCITY
get that into your thick skulls conspiracy theorists.
Duncan
Beware-The Game is Afoot!
07.07.2005 18:30
Netanyahu Changed Plans Due to Warning
By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jul 7, 7:14 AM ET
JERUSALEM - British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.
Moriarty
Propoganda Matrix - not in the least bit interesting
07.07.2005 18:45
... that GWB was planning some spectacular in the run-up to 11/04. Apart from the usual *political* games, this did not materialize.
... that Beslan had "disturbing aspects of a dark psy-ops attack". This almost induced in me a rage of Biblical proportions.
... that "thousands of body-bags" were being prepared for G8 2004.
Have you considered them? Right, why d'you feel the need to propogate his drivel? Nowt on his page which I take seriously I have not found elsewhere with careful reading of the mainstream media and... sane... blogs. He his a Village in the Orkney Islands. Ignore him.
As for the allusions being made towards bombing of Baghdad. Really? Do bears really shite in woods? The bods who frequent sites such as Indymedia are well aware of this, we do not need to be told. I loath Blair. I believe he has taken us into an immoral and disgusting war. I am not, however, that dogmatically obsessed that I hold him "personally responsible". What pure and unadulterated codswallop.
If you argue that the killing of innnocent Londoners is somehow mitigated by the actions of their government, then why not extend the same arguement to the killing of innoncent Iraqis in response to the actions of their government. Both are fallacious.
I haven't heard what garbage that Wee Dod Galloway is spouting, but if it's owt like Vanessa Redgrave came out with following Beslan, my blood in boiling in anticipation.
Alec
Inside Job
07.07.2005 18:51
For how long are we going to play blindly along their lines?
For how long are we going to let this soul-less cold hearted business leaders suck our blood and massacre us under the al-qaida logo everytime we put them on the spot light???
They want to divert our attention from the G9 Summit, are we going to allow it?
Now they want to put the blame for their own crimes on the already battered Muslim community, are we going to allow it?
Who doesn't care about the lives of ordinary civilians? Palestine, Iraq, New York, Madrid, London... Just think.
Spotter
bombs of baghdad falling on london
07.07.2005 18:51
vlad
Gorgeous George
07.07.2005 18:54
Alec
Keep your eyes opened !
07.07.2005 18:56
Keep your eyes opened, citizens, keep your eyes opened !
Feel sorry and sad about the deaths and injured ones, *ALL* of them.
Killing innocents - ANY innocent - is not an act of bravery, but of cowardice.
Don't let your anger drive your wisdom. Don't become the terrorist you used to fight.
Terrorism - *ALL* kind of terrorism - is a treason to ANY (noble) cause defended !
Switch off TV for a moment, and think, search, ask questions...
one citizen of the world
Whoever did this, it was a tragedy...
07.07.2005 19:03
Indymedia and the far left make some valid points. Don`t let the New Labour bastards win by spounting bollocks about today and losing support.
Rick
Rick
Mossad Calling
07.07.2005 19:16
Oh, Kelly, can I have Occam's Razor to wave at the idiots on this page? What, it's only a philosophical construct? Bollocks. Well, could I at least beat them with with William of Occam's completed works?
Alec
it was not terrorism it was 'Freedom Fighers'
07.07.2005 19:20
Kelly
e-mail:
kellyp@hotmail.com
who is the enemy??
07.07.2005 19:26
the cold war has finished, there are no major threats from other countries, no world power that could conceievebly stand up to our 'allies' america.
we need a 'faceless' enemy, its the only thing that will keep people afraid.
squats
Look.....
07.07.2005 19:28
apples
Protocols of the Elders of Zion
07.07.2005 19:30
Then you are a maggot who was kicked-off the editting board for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion for emotional instability.
Out of interest, has Islamic... oh, okay... Islam-*ist* terrorism been confirmed. Despite the reports of a kamikazi attack on the Number 30 bus, they remain unconfirmed. Don't forget, Irish terrorist bombs have gone off before time on buses before.
Alec
Brotherhood among terror victims
07.07.2005 19:35
This time, unlike 9/11, I didn't have even a second to think that now, perhaps, England would be more sympathetic to Israel. The world is indeed a different place today than it was on September 10, 2001. The pictures are horrific, and even worse is the knowledge that what is to come in the next few hours is worse than what we yet know. The numbers will climb through and the impact of today will be felt by those who were injured for weeks, months, years and perhaps the rest of their lives. This I know from what we have experienced here, and yet this is not something that England is ready to hear.
The numbers are agonizingly slow and yet already much higher numbers are being released on Israeli television. This too is something that I know. Our media is ever cautious in publicizing the numbers because each number represents a life, a family, a town in mourning. Often the foreign media, which has no qualms about the pain such numbers cause, will be quick to announce a high death count, while all Israeli stations slowly approach the same number. For this one time, Israel media is free to release numbers, knowing that it is very unlikely than anyone in England is listening to the broadcasts.
It is almost as if the media was trying to gradually break the bad news to its listeners, prepare them slowly for the worst and beyond. This is what is happening in London now and what happens here after each attack. No one can believe that only two people were killed in four combined attacks on three train stations and a bus, and yet, English television remained with this number for hours, only moving gradually up into the tens, twenties and thirties as the day wore on.
The lesson, as we well know it, is that in a moment of utter horror ... lives change and we'll never have a satisfactory answer as to why, what could possibly be gained by destroying the lives of innocent people on commuter trains and buses. This is the reality we have lived with, the truth the Americans and Europeans have learned.
Soon will come the coincidences, a friend that was visiting London yesterday, someone just missing the bus, another deciding to spend the day at home, or whatever. There will be the accusations of who did this, why they did it and more.
Sky television is talking about the terrorist attacks. BBC has reported, "London rocked by terror attacks." And inside of me, as I listen to the news and watch the pictures, I am filled with emotions. To the left of the anguish I feel for the families, a tad to the right of the anger I feel at what I am sure will prove, once again, to have been the act of Islamic extremists, is this tiny seed of anger at the Europeans themselves, or at least at the European media.
Confirming what I already knew, when buses blow up in London, they are terrorist attacks, which, one would assume, were perpetrated by terrorists. By definition, if it is a terrorist attack that means terrorists attacked, no? And yet, when a bus goes off in Jerusalem, these are attacks by militants. Terrorists kill Americans and Europeans, militants kill Israelis, it seems. BBC refuses to call them terrorists if they attack in Jerusalem, but terror it is and terrorists they are if their victims are Britons in London.
To BBC?s way of thinking, calling them terrorists is making a judgment, something they as journalists do not want to do?unless the victims are their own people, apparently. One man?s terrorist is another man?s freedom fighter is their mantra when the victims are Jews and Israelis and yet, today, there is no doubt in anyone?s mind that terrorists attacked London.
I try to tell myself that I have no right to this anger that I feel when people are suffering there, and yet, it is a slow burning pain, deep down aimed at the media, who serves the interests of the terrorists by dismissing what they do as legitimate acts of desperation or "war."
I was recently told by a former BBC correspondent, that she is able to maintain an air of separation when a bus full of Israelis blows up. She didn't mean it to sound quite that way, but that was the underlying message. As a trained journalist, she cannot feel solidarity with one side, refuses to understand the pain of the Israelis in a conflict to which she assigns more blame to those who are blown up in buses, than those who inflict this horror.
As I look at the pictures and I hear the panic in London and I feel so much pain and sorrow. I do not think the England police are handling it well and I know that I am not being fair. Israel has become too good at handling it. I've said that for a long time. Within minutes after an attack, emergency numbers are posted. Four hours into the tragedy, England still had not released these numbers.
Within hours, the streets in Israel are cleared and the traffic flowing. The bus is moved and cleaned elsewhere, out of sight, move on with your lives. Hours later, London is still paralyzed, still in shock, openly wounded and vulnerable. This is as it should be. When terrorists rip your heart out, when they attack at the height of rush hour, intending to murder and maim, it is wrong to clean up so fast, to move on too quickly.
Most important, I can imagine the terror and the pain of the people there so clearly. I see their shocked faces and I don?t believe their religion or nationality makes a difference because there is a brotherhood among victims, an understanding that this can happen anywhere, anytime, to anyone.
And ... I think there is an answer in there somewhere, in that brotherhood, in that understanding and in that sad acceptance. When the whole world rocks with agony, when we all cry because a bus blew up somewhere ... and when it doesn't matter where or who was on board -- we might find a way to stop this. We are closer today, in the post 9/11 world we live in, but we aren't there yet.
I offer my deepest, most heartfelt condolences to the people of England, to the families of those who lost loved ones (and worse ... don't even know it yet), to those who were injured and their families ... and to all of us because we live in a world where someone can climb on a bus or board a train and do such horror.
Paula S.
To our British friends: our hearts are with you
07.07.2005 19:36
We in Israel were devastated to see the horrifyingly familiar sights of terrorist bus and train bombings wreak devastation throughout London. As innocent civilians suffer the torment of waiting for news of their loved ones, searching hospitals, and dealing with the trauma of being near a terrorist attack, we in Israel who have much experience with this kind of heartbreak can only wish you and yours G-d's comfort and blessings.
This latest horror reminds us that the work of terrorists can only be stopped when all good men and women throughout the world understand that a terrorist is evil personified. He cannot be placated. He cannot be deterred. There is nothing you did to earn a terrorist attack, and nothing you can to avoid one except for this: A united front in which all mankind fights back, getting them before they get us.
In October 27, 2002, I wrote an article about the sympathetic way the BBC had covered the murder of theatre-goers in Moscow, calling the terrorists "hostage-takers" and "separatists"
never mentioning the word terrorism, or the loss of innocent lives.
"What is it going to take to get BBC to stop siding with terrorists? IRA "separatists" to blow up their building in London? What? Don't they understand that this constant propaganda which bends over backwards to "understand" those who commit inhuman crimes against humanity, encourages such crimes? Don't they understand that no one is safe as long as this kind of sympathetic spin is put on monsters?"
Everybody has a beef, BBC. But as long as you say anything goes to accomplish your agenda, the wails of mourning coming from the innocent will continue to shake the world, rising up from Bali, Australia, New York, Kashmir, Moscow, Tel Aviv, the Philippines. Everyone, everyone, is a potential target.
Even Londoners. BBC, you should hang your heads in shame on the unemployment lines."
Our deepest condolences. May God avenge all innocent blood.
Naomi Ragen
prior warning
07.07.2005 19:44
"After the first explosion, our finance minister received a request not to go anywhere," Finance Minister Silvan Shalom told Israel Army Radio.
Netanyahu was to have been the scheduled keynote speaker at an Israeli corporate investment conference at the Great Eastern hotel near the Liverpool Street subway station.
tell the truth
Police
07.07.2005 19:49
You are the worst kind of kind of police and yes it is a rant that you do, as for believing people are assuming things based on a visit to a web-site for a link i don't think so but what you are doing is exactly that. So go back to policing your community. In the meantime allow people to free form their opinions as events unfold. My thoughts go out to all those who have lossed loved ones or have been injured in London to-day.
Fiona
Whose soil & whose freedom fighters, Kelly?
07.07.2005 19:51
The problem here Kelly is one of nomenclature.
While it is true that one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist, the issue of sovereignty and justice must bear relevance.
The fact remains that Israel has no moral justification for it's ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people AT ALL, let alone on THEIR OWN land. It's not yours.
And they have every right to defend themselves and expel the invader by whatever means, in exactly the same way as any other people on the planet who find themselves assaulted, mutilated and ethnically cleansed.
Sadly, I think you're as much a victim of your own propaganda as many here and the rest of the west are of theirs.
Interestingly, if you follow the money high enough up the pyramid, you find the same loathesome scum inhabiting the rareified atmosphere of control of both, busily engineering people's opinions.
In any case, the issue of morality in waging a war presupposes that those responsible for today's carnage are in fact who we are told they are.
Are you really going to beleive the same people who told us there were WMD in Iraq, that David Kelly killed himself and that Osama Bin Scapegoat masterminded 911???
I think not.
pentos
Transport / ID
07.07.2005 19:52
>> How could it have stopped it?
>> If ID cards were required for train travel, how will London's MILLIONs of tourists get around?
>> Are they to be barred? or made to feel excluded and unwelcome.
>> Ridiculous.
>> THERE IS NO AGENDA THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE FUTHERED BY THIS ATROCITY
>> get that into your thick skulls conspiracy theorists
Duncan, there is no agenda that could (reasonably) be furthered, but just you watch it happen. Of course it would have made no difference, but it is an opportunity to push through much desired legislation, and it WILL be pushed.
It's not reasonable, it makes no sense - but watch it happen.
Moa
Re: Beware-The Game is Afoot!
07.07.2005 19:56
Instead we are fed with prime minister Göran Persson's hollow talk about an attack at our "open society". We got some example of that "open society" in Gothenburg, the summer prior to 9/11. And it's getting worse.
Our sincere condoleances.
In Solidarity & in Peace,
Jan
Jan
Don't Feign Innocence
07.07.2005 19:58
Reality Check
Conspiracies
07.07.2005 20:17
Being driven by hatred, they're determined to pin the blame on those they hate - even when they end up with silly contortions like the government slaughtering its own people in order to introduce ID cards. Just think about the number of people in on the operation, the risk of leaks in a chaotic society, the complete uncontrollability of the outcome - as in Spain, when the government was brought down by the Madrid bombs...
But then the simplest explanation would never be good enough, as 'that's what the unenlightened sheep think and we're cleverer than them'.
It would help if they all got girlfriends ...
How about Indymed separating News (as in newswire) from features / rants?
phatsoid
Eh?
07.07.2005 20:28
D'you want some punctuation? I have lots ;;;,,,,,:.,,,:,..........,,
I'm trying to make sense of that sentance, but I think you're insulting me. Did I follow a web-site for a link, or did Cunny? If the former, I have been lurking on this site for a fair few days, sounding the ground before wading in. If the latter, Cunny posted a... frankly... bonkers article. I didn't make a snap judgement on Propaganda Matrix. I have formed my deeply negative opinion of it over the course of a year. Maybe he... or she... didn't comment directly on it, but in doing so, made an implicit judgement (in the same way an earlier contributer made a remark about the army being on the streets, and left it at that).
Why am I police? I may cut my hair short and be clean-shaven, but the similarity ends there. Maybe this is a standard insult, rather like calling the local park-keeper a "tinpot fascist" or claiming that Edinburgh has been turned into a "police state" (it's not, by the way). My only regret is calling Inside Job a maggot. Maybe I should have made my presence known before starting a slanging-match, but IJ's post was idiotic. Not his own opinion. Not one version of the truth. Just plain daft. I believe our lords and masters have committed some hair-raising acts, but I also believe a significant plank to conspiracy theories is removing any sense of responsibility for world events from the their proponents. Transferring blame to some nebulous and nameless threat (yes, governments can do this as well).
You've just assumed things about me. You've just assumed that because I don't believe in "inside jobs", I am an authoritarian and establishment "police".
Alec
Re: Don't Feign Innocence
07.07.2005 20:30
Humpty Dumpty
pentos shows ignorance by repeating arab lies
07.07.2005 20:32
Kelly
error in the statement
07.07.2005 20:36
I don't usually quote mainstream media, but I found this article on MSNBC quite helpful -
'But MSNBC TV translator Jacob Keryakes, who said that a copy of the message was later posted on a secular Web site, noted that the claim of responsibility contained an error in one of the Quranic verses it cited. That suggests that the claim may be phony, he said.
"This is not something al-Qaida would do," he said.'
Tim, in California, EEUU
Tim Lohrentz
Fox News
07.07.2005 20:49
Fox News:
Here is a transcript from Fox News broadcastered earlier on:
The following exchange between Fox News host Brian Kilmeade and Fox News business contributor and substitute host Stuart Varney occurred during breaking news coverage of the attacks on London subways and buses on the July 7 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:
KILMEADE: And he [British Prime Minister Tony Blair] made the statement, clearly shaken, but clearly determined. This is his second address in the last hour. First to the people of London, and now at the G8 summit, where their topic Number 1 --believe it or not-- was global warming, the second was African aid. And that was the first time since 9-11 when they should know, and they do know now, that terrorism should be Number 1. But it's important for them all to be together. I think that works to our advantage, in the Western world's advantage, for people to experience something like this together, just 500 miles from where the attacks have happened.
VARNEY: It puts the Number 1 issue right back on the front burner right at the point where all these world leaders are meeting. It takes global warming off the front burner. It takes African aid off the front burner. It sticks terrorism and the fight on the war on terror, right up front all over again.
KILMEADE: Yeah.
The Web page is www.mediamatters.org follow the article through on the Read More link there you can watch the news item on media player.
I think these sort of comments will become the norm over the coming days or weeks.
Cunny
misplaced suffering
07.07.2005 21:02
marcos
As It Was Reported by the CBC in Canada
07.07.2005 21:15
I thought indymedia was all about presenting facts. Most of the postings seem to be about conspiracies and "howlers" at the BBC. There is no point in anyone speculating on anything when the facts are not clear. Give the Emerg folks a chance - do you think anyone has time to talk to the press when they are dealing with an emergency of this order of magnitude? For sure there are going to be conflicting reports - does it really matter whether 5 were killed or 50? People have been killed. Wait for the officials to provide factual details.
---------------------
Toll rises to 37 dead, 700 injured in London blasts
Last Updated Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:45:23 EDT
CBC News
London police are now confirming that at least 37 people were killed and 700 injured in a series of explosions that ripped through the city's transit system within minutes Thursday morning.
INDEPTH: Blasts in London
The remnants of a bus that exploded near Tavistock Square, central London, Thursday, July 7. (AP photo).
Scores of people suffered serious or critical injuries such as burns, severed limbs, chest and head injuries from the three explosions that rocked the subway network.
Police said at least two people died from a fourth explosion on a packed double-decker bus.
Hospitals in the British capital set up emergency treatment areas for the injured people, many who were covered in soot and blood.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair said it's "reasonably clear" the "barbaric" attacks were the work of terrorists and were aimed to coincide with the opening of the Group of Eight summit in Scotland.
He vowed to launch intense security action in response to the attacks, the worst on London since the Second World War.
RELATED STORY: Blair blames terrorists for 'barbaric' attacks
"The purpose of terrorism is just that. It is to terrorize people. And we will not be terrorized," Blair said.
"They are trying to use the slaughter of innocent people to cow us," he said. "They should know they will not succeed," he said.
British Home Secretary Charles Clarke has confirmed four blasts took place:
Between Aldgate East and Liverpool Street subway stations. (7 dead)
Between Russell Square and King's Cross subway stations. (21 dead)
At Edgware Road subway station. (5 dead)
On a bus at Woburn Place near Tavistock Square. (2 dead)
At least two others were killed in the blasts but it is unclear where those deaths occurred.
There were varying reports about the number of deaths in the blasts.
French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, quoting British Home Secretary Charles Clarke, said 50 people died and 300 were wounded in the bomb attacks.
The Associated Press reported that three U.S. law enforcement officials said at least 40 people were killed in the blasts. But British authorities were confirming 37 dead.
Earlier reports said there were as many as seven explosions, but authorities say that may have been because people streamed out of a number of different subway stations.
Pedestrians pass St. Paul's Cathedral, London, Thursday, July 7. (Jack Guez / AFP / Getty Images))
First reports from subway stations
The first reports of subway blasts came at 8:49 a.m. local time, sending fire trucks and ambulances to the scenes.
About an hour later, at 9:47 a.m., the roof of a double-decker bus was blown off and its sides peeled back near Tavistock Square in central London.
Loyita Worley was on a subway train going between Liverpool Street and Aldgate stations when an explosion rocked the next car.
"We heard banging from the next carriage, people shouting for help," she told CBC Newsworld.
"They called for medical assistance and various people went up – nurses, doctors and so on."
RELATED STORY: Transit blasts called work of 'evil', 'mass murder'
Later, she said, "they brought all the walking wounded through," including people blackened by smoke and commuters with some or all of their clothes torn off by the force of the blast.
Injured tube passenger is escorted away from London subway station. (AP Photo)
Making her way out of the train and along the tracks to the nearest station, she said she saw at least one body and many injured people.
YOUR SPACE: Send us your thoughts
Worley said she is still stunned by what happened, though she was used to anti-terrorism drills from 30 years of working in a city under the constant threat of Irish Republican Army attacks.
"I was just so pleased it wasn't me," she said. "I was just thanking my lucky stars, thanking God that I was OK."
A man on a subway car said the situation was terrifying.
"There were flashes of light, people were screaming and smoke began to billow into the carriage," said lawyer Angelo Power. "We were trapped like sardines waiting to die."
No information on bombs
Paramedics on the scene at Edgware Road Tube Station in London following an explosion, Thursday, July 7. (AP photo)
Officials initially blamed a power surge for the subway blasts, but that changed after police found evidence of explosive material at two explosion sites.
Police say it's too early to tell whether the explosions were caused by suicide bombers or bombs left in the stations and bus. They also couldn't provide any information on what type of explosives were used, but said that they were "deliberately designed to kill and injure innocent members of the public."
There have been no confirmed claims of responsibility, but police said they are investigating a claim by an al-Qaeda-linked group posted on a website.
"We don't know if it's a genuine claim or not," said a police spokesperson.
The entire subway system has been shut down along with most bus services, but officials say they expect limited services to resume Thursday night. Authorities are advising people in the city to avoid any unnecessary travel and not call any emergency services unless it's a life-threatening issue.
Foreign Affairs has set up a hotline for Canadians with strong reasons to believe their Canadian relatives might have been travelling on London transit this morning. They should have on hand the missing person's full name, date of birth and passport number before calling the toll-free hotline at 1-800-606-5499.
As many as three million people use the London Underground each day. It's the world's oldest subway system and one of the largest in the world.
slowgirl
Israeli "Condolences"
07.07.2005 22:00
Moriarty
And on the subject of coincidences...
07.07.2005 22:04
Yeah Giuliani (bunker owner in Building 7) was here too. Neat to have him available for prime time TV with Sir Trev. "This was your 9/11... been there done it"
Etc.
Tired
Israeli "Condolences"? They're Already Calling for World War
07.07.2005 22:44
The Israeli parasites (who had advance warnings of the bombings) are now calling for a world war. Wow, that was quick! Who benefits? Who has been calling for war with Iran and Syria? Whose pro-war agendas does this make possible?
Reality Check
Homepage:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9410.htm
Well...
07.07.2005 22:47
artaud
Average Sensible Rebel
07.07.2005 23:14
We've been invaded by Gauls, Saxons, Romans and Frenchies and all the rest of the Worlds 'kick ass' brigade. We've been bombed to fuck by the Germans. Thousands were killed, and entire streets flattened. We had to send all the kids away to Wales and other remote places for safety - such was the volume of bombing.
Ask yourself if the cowardly scum who planted those bombs have actually read OUR history.”…. Average Sensible Rebel
Average and sensible? Your a complete tosser
Yes I agree what a glorious history England has!
Building an empire off the backs off poorer nations and poorst people on the planet. Supporting slavery, child workers and big business throughout the centuries.
Ransacking countries, deporting Scottish citizens to all corners of the globe just for being...well Scottish, ravishing Africas diamond mines, slaughtering Americans oh and even fighting amongst yourselves in the war of the roses!
What glory England has! May I salute you!
Hilly
Our leaders
07.07.2005 23:27
Many people seem to be very quick to blaim others and not take the responsibility themselves.
To the israeli's who are posting, I am sorry for any harm that you or your families may have incurred but please realise that when we call the palestinians freedom fighters that is not condoning their methods - merely understanding that they are desperate. Few people on this website condone killing as a means to an end, but that does not mean that we must ignore the cause these people are fighting for. We seek Justice, for the palestinians, for the Iraqi's, for many of the other Arab nations, and the Africans . . . In fact for everyone. We must work for this despite the terrorist activity on all sides and not through it. We must not let anger and hurt cloud a vision for a just world.
marcos
Mog
Oh Please, Artaud
07.07.2005 23:37
Reader
Is it just me, or is that the familiar odour of mossad in the morning?
07.07.2005 23:46
Very simlar in fact to those circulated amongst Americans immediately post 911.
I smell an Israeli false flag op.
I wonder how long before there's another 'police' action in occupied Palestine, edging the Zionazis ever closer to their goal of an arab-free Middle East, while we're all supposed to be busy looking the other way?
Interesting too that an Israeli trade delegation, traditionally the thinnest of covers for covert ops on foreign soil, and headed up by Netanyahu - ex(?) Mossad and an ultra rightwing hardliner, just happens to be taking place yards from one of the bomb sites...
Hmmmmmmmm...
pentos
Who is the arbiter of content on this allegedly INDYpendent organ, anyhow?
07.07.2005 23:53
And if it is, who then is editing and, it appears, frequently removing posts?
And if getting to the root of an identity behind the blue pencil is too tall an order, perhaps somebody can enlighten me as to the criteria likely to be applied when deciding which is the wrong kind of free speech?
pentos
Put on your thinking cap
08.07.2005 00:32
I guess the moslems who set off the explosives were really nice guys...
Anti-semtism trumps rational thought.
Ali ibn Sharmootah
Militants and Terrorists
08.07.2005 01:50
There is no such thing.
The Palestinian birthrate alone exceeds the combined death rate of all Palestinians. Not just the ones killed by ISrael and certaily not the majority of them which died in combat against Israel..
Not that Israel has any genocidal aspirations (besides killing terrorists) however even if this is a "genocide" as the Arab propoaganda would suggest, then it would have to be the most pathetic, sorry excuse for a miserable genocide the world has ever seen.
Isn't it interesting though that when an Arab blows up a bus in Israel, he must be a Militant, however in London, he's a terrorist.
When a head gets sawn off in Iraq, it's because of US occupation (or maybe Israel) but when a Buddhist gets his head sawn off in Thailand, there's no such convenient excuse.
What's the common thread? Radical Islam which is at the root of nearly every conflict in the whole world rtight now, many of which have nothing to do with Jews or Americans either. The sooner the world wakes up to this very real problem and stops making its own excuses, the sooner something can be done about it.
Of course it's much easier to blame America and Israel which suits the Radical Islamists quite nicely, until its your turn to be murdered.
Wake up.
Don't buy the lies
Double and Triple Standards
08.07.2005 02:43
Human
Re: "I guess the moslems who set off the explosives..."
08.07.2005 03:52
Someone better tell Bush and Blair, before Israel hands them a list of suicide bombers.
Nice Try, Israeli Shill
Homepage:
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=8925
Bush's War of Terror
08.07.2005 08:01
This practice of terrorizing the people into submission and complacency has been the core of the strategy of the neo-conservatives since 9/11, and it is exactly that strategy that all people of the world should be resisting.
Andres Kargar
e-mail:
galileo19@hotmail.com
On support of Israel
08.07.2005 09:09
Bnei Zonot
Lets Recap
08.07.2005 10:56
On the right we have the mainstream correspondents who have pointed out that having attacked Muslim countries and had numerous fanatical Islamic clerics call far Jihad and so on, one of them has finally succeedded.
Shouting on the sidelines we have the "HAHAHA its your own fault for bombing the Iraqis" protestors, sympathetic as ever to the bereaved. I'm kinda guessing they don't go on the Tube very often.
And finally we have the Israelis (you have to admire the way they swing into action at the drop of a hat) claiming that we're just like them and should all band against the Muslim world and give them a good hiding.
For God's sake, get a grip. I have never seen such a poorly reasoned argument outside of a Primary School classroom. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, masquarading polemic as argument and flimsy supposition as fact.
Paranoid Pete
Recap Completion
08.07.2005 14:16
Paranoid Paté
Touche
08.07.2005 16:29
Point taken but in fact you have in absolutely no way countered the point that the standard of postings and analysis from correspondents is woefully poor.
J'accuse. How do you respond?
Paranoid Pete
Terror and it's role in state control
08.07.2005 16:43
I would disagree.
I do not accept that these bombs were planted by the security forces. my first thought was that it may have been the Real IRA, but they are far too busy running the belfast drug trade these days, so I am willing to believe that there MAY be proof that it is the work of radical Islamists. So far there is simply no proof, one group has claimed responsibility and, in the eyes of the state, that is all the proof they need.
As for the manner in which this could be used:
Blair is in cahoots with the neo-cons and is indoctrinated with the ethos of neo-conservatism. Central to this is the rationale of the "National Myth" and it's attendant issue of exterior threat.
The presence of a threat from an outsider makes it very easy for a government to enslave it's people even further. Amerika and the patriot act, Thatcher and her far reaching attacks on liberty, these are examples of the government control model in action.
Capitalising on an attack by extremist militants Blair will rush through a raft of new legislation. ID cards, email monitoring, phone tapping, stop and search, all of these will be introduced or stepped up.
A people cowtowed into apathy are apprey to the politics of fear. The government, formerly managers, have a new role, they now protect us from "evil".
Just wait a few weeks, there will be new statements from Charles Clark about the need for ID cards and how "ordinary people" who have "nothing to hide" "have nothing to fear."
It is the job of politicians to capitalise on such events, rest assured that they will, purely because they can.
Monty cantsin
Idiots
08.07.2005 16:46
Humpty Dumpty
The Hegellian Dialectic
08.07.2005 18:20
With regard to Israel in particular, it's not just their own who they're preapred to murder whilst actively pinning the blame on others.
The Lavon Affair, The USS Liberty, The USS Cole and the very existence of the Misgarot, all are evidence of the policy of commiting atrocities with the deliberate intention of blaming someone else, and profiting politically from the outcome.
The blanket, knee-jerk slur of "anti-semite", doled out at the drop of a hat, or indeed the drop of any criticism of Israel, should not, in a coherent, independently thinking society, automatically be considerd as such.
It's as well to remember that Zionnism is a political movement, not a race, creed or nationality.
We should also remember that Zionism and the Neo-cons are one and the same.
In the words of the butcher of Sabra 7 Shatilla, Ariel Sharon,
"You tell me the Americans will do this or that. Let me tell you. We control America, and the Americans know it"
pentos
Je reponds
08.07.2005 18:24
People are upset, people are confused, people have been lied to for the last few years about so many of the things leading up to this genuine tragedy. There is, like it or not, a discussion of sorts taking place on this thread, that represents not just a bunch of people's venting, but also really struggling to make sense of what's going on. The knee-jerkers are happy to say: "Ah! Al Qaeda, of course, fits together nicely in my prefab mind"
Others, slightly more cynical, are bringing their points of view. For one or two people maybe this includes something called the Illuminati, though no one has actually mentioned space aliens except in mocking those who suspect the government. This is a good indication that they don't know any better way to counter the very real possibility that whoever planted these bombs did so with the knowledge, approval, and even material assistance of one or more arms of the same government that pretended to be deceived by Bush in order to justify an oil and power grab in the middle east in the face of increasing competition for resources from developing nations.
Now, you seem a reasonable fellow, with some degree of cynicism to your credit. We can use our disagreement to mutually benefit our understanding of this issue, or descend into playground banter like some others here. C'est à toi!
Paté
Mon Dieu!
08.07.2005 20:19
Very well put. I don't agree necessarily, but very well put. If only all correspondents took a considered view, we would be spared the mad post-puberty shouting match that has occurred over the last day on this thread.
Pete
Pete
@New Yorker... England's used to terrorists... heard of IRA?
09.07.2005 09:19
We've had terrorism "in our backyard" for years, I guess you forgot the IRA?
If you're going to have an opinion about the outside world "newyorker"... try learning about it first, people tend to respect your opinions when they coincide with (rather than contradict) historic facts.
Peace!!
m3
Homepage:
http://methlabs.org
Business as usual
10.07.2005 16:12
By seven o'clock Thursday night the dogs and I were fighting off a crackhead who had broken into the house.
Obviously the media cannot be relied upon to report such things, but I wonder what the crime figures were when the police was elsewhere?
As a jew and someone absolutely opposed to Zionism I feel that it is disgustingly mercenary for the Israelies to try and co-opt the grief of these events and attendant loss of life in order to spread their doctrine of racial hatred and genocide of the Palestinian people.
I am also not a chap to dive into a conspiracy, however, there are questions. I think the people would like to have them answered.
Monty Cantsin
My respect to Monty Catsin
11.07.2005 14:45
My respect and admiration to you. I must say I am deeply moved by Jewish people who are against Zionism and against the Israeli occupation of Palestine.
Thank you,
María
María
Zionism
12.07.2005 10:06
Thankyou.
My grandmother, now a very elderly lady, fled the nazis. She travelled by night and slept by day, stealing food where she could or eating anything she could find.
She travelled all of the way from Munich to Switzerland and, once there, got to England to be with relatives.
Quite a feat for an eleven year old girl.
She has a saying, with which she expresses her distaste for Zionism, and, as I think it relevent, I shall share it here:
"We were taught six million reasons why such things are wrong, but still the only way jews can get land is by acting like the nazis."
Wise words from a woman who lived through something that most of us can barely imagine.
Capitalist society is all about pecking orders. The bosses at the top, the "consumers" at the bottom. Similarly; the nazis persecute the jews, then hardliners head off to Palestine and persecute the Palestinians. (Obviously I'm choosing not to mention the predominately socialist movement within early Zionism which campaigned for peaceful co-existance, this has long been dead and replaced by the far-right campaign to remove the Palestinian people from the face of the earth.)
I agree with my grandmother that a lesson was learned from the holocaust. I just think that the jews in Palestine have learned the wrong things from the nazis. I don't truly believe that supporting a reghime which carries out overt assassinations and has stolen a country from another people would in any way make me a good jew.
It is a difficult topic at parties. I get accused of hating myself, not being a proper jew, betraying my people. But, as a jew, my first duty is to live the right way. To condone the actions of the Jewish occupiers in Palestine would be to betray myself as a jew, it would be to condone murder, blackmail, barbarism, exploitation, genocide, slavery and a callous indifference to human suffering which amounts to evil, this would be wrong. Only a man with no soul could accept such things. How convenient, then, that the occupiers have so many soulless men waiting to step into office.
Thus I am opposed to Zionism and I believe myself to be a good jew because I have a conscience and my conscience tells me that the behaviour of the Zionists is a mockery of my faith. By their behaviour they have spat on their own history and heritage. They cling to that dusty, stolen soil like parasites and it makes me ashamed to be a jew.
Monty Cantsin