What do you consider violent? Do you consider telling people who have kidnapped you, screwed up your life for no reason (an admitted tragic mistake), and broken into your home to get out violent (when no one else _should_ be able to hear what you say)?

Do you consider telling eavesdroppers what _they_ have done (when no one else _should_ be able to hear what you say) violent?

"unprovoked violent"

If you think breaking a piece of concrete is "violent" you're a fuckin' head case. If you think responding to violence with violence equals "unprovoked" you don't believe in the right of self defense.

You remind of that nut in "The Couch Trip" trying to collect donations for "the ethical treatment of plants".

Police cracking old ladies on the skull -- that's violent. Breaking a window may be misguided, but it is not violent.

Lemme explain it real simple, sweetheart, radical change is often unpleasant. I'm not saying I agree with the bloc's tactics but sipping lates and going to rock concerts never did nuthin for anybody. Lemme guess: you're a liberal. Well, I hate to be the one to break it to you but liberalism is a dead end; it co-opts radical movements for change and moves them into safe political arenas where they can be diffused and rendered benign.

Stop fretting so much over public relations and get to work. Try and express solidarity with your comrades instead of pointing the finger at them, librarian-like; reserve your rage for the real criminals.

P.S.: they should lose the black jammies, though.

The Editors have been quick enough off the mark to hide this post, but rather less speedy in responding to my request for an explanation. Perhaps this will elicit a response:


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__________

Maybe I am just stupid; I am humble enough to be openly advised on the decision!

it is contructive...how many systems have ever changed because of non-violent protests.
i dint condine violence...but unfortunatly standing around with pretty banners has never solved anything. i dont like the system in which i am focred to live, i cannot simply just opt-out. fight the police,fight those who seek to oppress us and do this before they do it to me. this is my opinion i do not force it on others,but if you really disagree with all the corrupt, commercialised bullshit of the modern world then fight against it.

call me what you want, my beliefs are my beliefs, i do not force people to do what they dont want to, i do not opress people i fight for what i believe in.

smash capitalism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This question presupposes that mass demonstrations can ever effect real change. No demonstration however large or ideologically coherent will give us the world we are after. It is how we live every day that makes the difference, WE need to be the ones to build a world we can be proud to bring our children into. WE need to find and develop ways that will allow ourselves and our communities to live independently from the system we hate so much. Capitalism will be killed by non-participation and nothing else.


Demos are for networking, direct action and having fun. They should not be used for 'movements' to show off how big they are (in some sort of democratic 'our-crowds-bigger-than-yours-so-we-must-be-right' kinda way), or as some sort of electoral 'threat' to those apparently in power...


If you want to change something on the demo, talk to locals, or dole out some propaganda, anything to get people thinking, wether or not your right, just get people talking to each other and thinking, they'll work it out between themselves.

As for the black bloc, if thats your thing, cool.. I know how amazing it feels to take a street back from the pigs, and anyone who hasn't can't really imagine the feeling of liberation you get from it... i don't pretent to myself that it'll change the world, beacuse it won't. But anyone who thinks that they are going to change the world by leaving the house for one day is deluding themselves.

I have little sympathy for the cops; whilst people obey orders unthinkingly they forefit their eligibility to be treated with respect. Off duty, I'll be their friend, but once they take the pepperspray, steel baton and submit to someone else, I quickly lose sympathy. Love the policeman, Hate the police.

And you moaning about our 'image' in the(ir) media.... fu(k it, they are going to discredit and make stuff up about us anyway, look at the tabloids today... "an anarchist elbowed a 7month pregnant lady's bump" or something to that effect in the Sun today.. blah blah blah... don't worry about it, there really is nothing you can do to get good press, bar sell your ideas out, or be totally establishment (MPH).. the media is there to sell consumer lifestyle, what more do you need to realise!?

How about telling people about your experiences? I know that after mayday a while back I was in a lot of conversations with people talking about the 'vicious anarchists' on the BBC the night of the first.. I pointed out that I was there and was in fact one of the marauding anarchists; which shattered their illusions of the baby-eating monsters (i'm (reputidly)quite polite and reserved). You'll normally be given ample opportunity to explain why you were there and what you actually believe, and also to describe what actually went on... I remember being able to show some of my parents friends (all very 'respectable' types) the cut from a cop kicking me in the face, as well as recalling some of the things i saw (cops holding a girls head under a puddle, beating people in the head as they were pinned under other protesters etc.) A few of them told me later that they compared indymedia to the bbc during Genoa as a result... in my mind that is better than some shallow 'good coverage' anyday..

Black bloc tactics are beginning to be a thing of the past anyway (as are large demos in general). Community building is where the real change is made, and if you really have some insatiable outlaw streak running through you, well, there is always some good ole fashoned eco terrorism... : D ; b


love.xxx

You can define "violent" however you want to- an explanation of your definition could also be helpful!

In the interest of impartiality, I am not going to make any comment personally. I just thought given the amount of varied reaction to the Edinburgh events, it would be helpful to examine people's views.

Thanks for the comment so far!

:-)

Non-news.
It's not a news report, but a loosely-framed survey.
Indymedia is intended as a news resource, not a general discussion board.

I'll admit I haven't posted here in about a year, but have been posting here on/off for about 3 or 4 years. If find it rather amusing that IM UK's paradigm of news now doesn't cover the opinions of it's readership/contributors (unlike any other news publisher), but rather looks thus:

people issue forth a report, IM decide its suitability and IM users react. So, much for autonomy!

I haven't read political science for a while; what do call a political structure that prohibits voting?

Sadly, I have to conclude I'm not going to waste my time coming back here!

Good luck with recycling Stalinism!

I only read it because it was hidden.

It does seem that there is too strict an application of guidelines. Often it is the items that are outrageous and well justified for hiding that produce the best comments, the most important work done on Indymedia.

'Editors' can be infiltrated into an organisation and misuse guidelines as an excuse to censor. If they can only hide and not delete their censorship is only partial.

If the Poster had written a bit more of the incident that caused the posting, it might have been clearer what it is about, and produced detailed reports on the incident from people who were there.