I call on you to stop telling people how to protest.

I call on you to support all those who struggle, however they choose to resist state oppression.

I call on you to do prisoner solidarity actions in the time you will waste denouncing 'a violent minority' in the corporate media.

Government is violence, our world is better without it.

Sorry, which Genoa were you at 'memory hole'? I distinctly remember the Black Bloccers coming to our Pink Silver meeting asking us what our plans were, how we might fit in with theirs and how they might fit in with ours.

We agreed to go to different parts of Genoa on the day. That's better than democracy - thats consensus.

I'm not sure which meetings you refer to, but considering the state of the plans by all groups I think efforts were made. Ya Basta in particular fucked up on the day, what with their 'plans with the police'.

Now if you're attacking the Black Bloc as a tactic then fine, but pretending that its less democratic than a crappy march from A-B led by leaders and 'facilitated' by 'stewards' then you are living on a different planet.

See you at the spokescouncil.

Memory Hole's article is the typical argument the state and corporte media will use to divide protestors between 'good and lawful' and 'bad and violent'.

There are many examples of how recently different tactics and approaches to street protests have worked better when combined togehter, in solidarity. We must not let any part of this 'movement of movements' be criminalised.

And so, just to refresh memory hole's (very bad) memory, here there are a copule of beautiful and inspiring texts that were written on the aftermath of the G8 protests of Evian in 2003. They were written by activists that chose to take part in very different types of protest:

- Lausanne Solidarity Declaration:  http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/06/70740.html

- With love from a Black Block activist... :  http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/06/70937.html

Face masks, property damage and street theatre with the police are the equivalent of an own goal. Because they give the state a much easier time of criminalising our movement and justifying violence against us. Because that effects me I have the right to call on the black block to learn from the experience of such tactics in Genoa.

“I call on you to stop telling people how to protest.”

We have the right to discuss tactics. Especially when certain tactics like wearing masks allow the police to infiltrate demonstrations with ease. Your post is silent on this issue.

“I call on you to support all those who struggle, however they choose to resist state oppression.”

Except that’s not how the real world works. Did you support every murder the IRA committed? Even the IRA has issued belated apologies to some families.

“I call on you to do prisoner solidarity actions in the time you will waste denouncing 'a violent minority' in the corporate media.”

It took me about 7 seconds to write my letter to the black block on Indymedia. Hardly time enough for “prisoner solidarity actions” whatever that means.

“Sorry, which Genoa were you at 'memory hole'? I distinctly remember the Black Bloccers coming to our Pink Silver meeting asking us what our plans were, how we might fit in with theirs and how they might fit in with ours.”

But they did not say they intended to vandalise property otherwise you would have, correctly, told them not to alienate local support by such pointless actions. And therein lies the lack of democracy. They do things without having the courage to test their arguments in front of the movement. In case you are deliberately forgetful I will say it again. They did not say they intended to vandalise property otherwise you would have, correctly, told them not to alienate local support by such pointless actions.

“Memory Hole's article is the typical argument the state and corporte media will use to divide protestors between 'good and lawful' and 'bad and violent'.”

Exactly the opposite is true. Nowhere in my letter to the Black Block do I use the arguments of the corporate media about violence in an attempt to divide our movement.

“There are many examples of how recently different tactics and approaches to street protests have worked better when combined togehter, in solidarity. We must not let any part of this 'movement of movements' be criminalised.”

But some tactics work better and other tactics are poorer. To suggest that all tactics work equally well is to dismiss the idea of tactics all together. It was the Black Blocks tactics that gave the state cover to infiltrate our movement. It was the Black Blocks tactics that gave the state a green light in terms of criminalising our movement and justifying its violent repression.

You could try some constructive solidarity, rather than judging things that haven't even happened yet:

 http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=1&ItemID=3723

Matt

"You could try some constructive solidarity, rather than judging things that haven't even happened yet"

These black block tactics have happened repeatedly. Most spectacularly in Genoa. Those who bring violence into the movement bring the state in with them.

Next.

Big ups to the black bloc for it's them wot get stuff done in some amazingly creative ways. To see the beauty of the destructive act is really beautiful for me. To acknowledge that out of the destruction comes new life and new growth is an amazing realisation. On the rubble of the Tower of Doom we shall grow fruit.

Personally i'm not really capable of engaging in militant black bloc activity. Instead i do what i am best at and at this protest i am a jester and i am running with CIRCA. I'm looking forward to showing and feeling solidarity with the black bloc crew who i will be working alongside. i look forward to dancing to samba and other bands and i'm looking forward to being in circle with pagans. A diversity of tactics and a respect to those who use other tactics to achieve a better world for all of us!

For me it's a multi-pronged approach and the spike of our prong jibbers into the symbols of the status-quo consumerist mainstream world we live in. And sometimes clowning is the best way to attack those symbols, such as using the art of ridicule, poking fun, pointing out the obvious ridiculousness. Sometimes setting up alternatives works - like the cre8 camp and the rural space. there's a living microcosm of how the world could really be! alternatives like this here site we are all using. Big ups to Indymedia for all the hard work put in to it! Sometimes gandhi and sometime che. Sometimes king and sometimes starhawk.

And sometimes the best way to show the world that there are better ways to live is to physically deconstruct the symbols that bind us. It's fantastic that the black bloc are there saying, much like i'll be saying, "we won't take your shit" and "we can govern ourselves thank you very much".

Without the black bloc there, we know the protests will have no effect. With them there, we can feel our actions might have some affect in the world. The politicians ain't really listening mate... They are simply lying to you. Geldof has created a side show to raise awareness. respect to him. Can I count on his respect back? Can we count on yours?

sean

"Big ups to the black bloc for it's them wot get stuff done "

I want them there too. I just dont want them to bring the state in with them like they have done some many times in the past and which not a single poster or this thread has even sought to deny.

MCM,

Wow, you're extremely dismissive of anyone making a different argument to you, aren't you? Seems to me that you are much more close-minded than the people you are railing against - from (it seems to me) little experience, you have already acted as judge and jury over people who use different tactics to you. Just a few points:

1) If you think that the police would ignore G8 protests without Black Bloc tactics, you are utterly barking. The police will ALWAYS crack down on anything that is effective. The only way you will get rid of the police is by framing your protest in a way that threatens no social change - and if you want to do that, its your business, but don't make other people get into your straitjacket.

2) Your comparison between IRA murders and a brick through a window is totally spurious, as should be evident. It is, in fact, exactly the kind of equivalence drawn by the mass media, which is criticised in the link I gave above (if you bothered to read it).

3) There have been numerous examples of Black Bloc activists consulting with other activists before actions, to ensure that groups with different outlooks don't clash during protests. You seem to have bought into the media stereotype of the 'mindless thug' without any critical examination of the reality on the ground, which is often one of mutual respect/cooperation. Obviously it is less likely to be that, if people like you have their way and judge other activists without listening to their point of view.

You might get a lot further if you didn't dismiss other people before you've even reached the protests.

Matt

who does what. The state will be there trying to make things worse in order to bring in new legislation etc...

I agree with the other posters, rather than complaining about one groups actions, go and do something more constructive.

Every type of action has a place, different things are effective in different ways.

Even if the black bloc didn't turn up at all, do you really believe that the state will not go overboard?

masking up is not the cause of state intrusion upon protests. dissent has been infiltrated by journalists and police officers and none of the meetings that occured took place while people were masked up. police officers and other agents of the state are often trained to look like protestors, a tactic that was employed at newbury and twyford down, these people do not wear masks. i really dont understand what your obsession with masking up is and i really dont see any evidence to support your argument that it aids state intrusion. sure the police can infiltrate protests wearing masks but they are just as good at doing it when they're not wearing masks.

if your protest is deemed illegal by the state, wear a mask,
if your plan on doing something which you could be arrested for but dont want to be, to avoid identification wear a mask,
if you dont want your face on a sheet of "known activists" which is carried by most local some national police surveillance teams and used at protests to aid 'grab tactics', wear a mask,
if you dont want to be seriously injured by police attacks on demonstrations then pad up,
if you want to defend yourself against attacks, take something thats gonna even up the odds a little bit

when they attack they wont hold back,
so why the fuck should we,
ill defend myself, defend our world,
against all attacks i see,

here's to the g8 and a sea of black, masked up faces, gleneagles here we come!!!

Sorry, but I think that what is seen as the 'mainstream' is often genuinely scared of the Black Bloc, and of people wearing balaclavas and throwing bricks through windows generally. In fact, it might be just a laugh and tactics to people involved, but I know that people outside these circles (who may or may not agree with their rationale, and who range from grandmothers to police people) are scared of people wearing balaclavas and throwing bricks through windows. I know that this is partly the corporate media, drumming up scare stories, but even the 'alternative' media isn't running the thruth about how the Black Bloc are a load of vegan peaceniks who love their mums and would always help a person in trouble...
?

The last poster is right. We don't focus enough on who we are really. People just see us (as in the entire movement, not just the black bloc) as being either disillusioned idiots or violent thugs who go from event to event to cause trouble.

How can we show people who we are - moral, peace loving individuals?

People always make out that we are violent - I have never been violent in my life yet still get people saying that our group has done violent things (implied and directly).

The problem is not us though, it is the media. Violence sells papers, gets people to watch their crappy 'expose' programs into the movement and works everyone up into a frenzy.

There is not much more that we can do, in my opinion, other than continue with the way we do things already.

We must be cautious though, ever increasingly draconian legislation is brought in constantly making more and more legitimate avenues of protest illegal (SOCA 2005 makes it a criminal offence to send 2 letters to the same company, but different people, if they deal with an animal research institute).

"The problem is not us though, it is the media. Violence sells papers, gets people to watch their crappy 'expose' programs into the movement and works everyone up into a frenzy. "

See clown poster's comments about encouraging friends to turn off their televisions! Couldn't agree more!