WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT BONO AND GELDOF?
mcw | 21.06.2005 11:26
Does anyone know how it would be possible to get in touch with Bono and Bob Geldof.
It strikes me that we need to be putting pressure on them. I don't think people are actually HASSLING them about structural adjustment and all the rest of it.
Anyone who's dedicating their time and effort to lobbying the government, might do better to lobby Geldof and Bono. They're the ones who are selling us out and making us look like we actually support the government.
Do they actually KNOW about these neo-liberal conditions being imposed in return for "debt relief"?
It strikes me that we need to be putting pressure on them. I don't think people are actually HASSLING them about structural adjustment and all the rest of it.
Anyone who's dedicating their time and effort to lobbying the government, might do better to lobby Geldof and Bono. They're the ones who are selling us out and making us look like we actually support the government.
Do they actually KNOW about these neo-liberal conditions being imposed in return for "debt relief"?
mcw
Comments
Hide the following 29 comments
sir bob scum bag
21.06.2005 12:38
also part of blair and brown's africa commission
e
Bono and Geldof on debt deal conditionality
21.06.2005 13:38
Bono on the debt deal
"I'm all for conditions that fight corruption, but not for those conditions that allow the IMF and the World Bank to meddle and micromanage economic and trade policy in these countries. It is quite ridiculous and irrelevant to demand as a condition of debt forgiveness that a country with no economy open its markets to us in the wealthy West without demur. That makes no sense."
Geldof on the debt deal
June 2005
A Tilter
website
21.06.2005 13:38
on the "makepovertyhistory" website, in it's Trade Justice section, it speficially mentions the world bank, imf and wto as causing poverty.
sean
A simple equation...
21.06.2005 13:41
wilbur
whats with the ebay bashing...as well...
21.06.2005 14:19
there was a 2 part e-bay scaremongering job
with the dual purpose it seems of
getting the business sector scared
[lowering shares - economic warfare]
and simultaneously evoking the
foreign good fearmongering
with the 'imported crap from china' angle
the irony that the wristbands
for 'make poverty history' were made
in sweatshops was apparently missed -
maybe because they weren't for sale on e-bay!
i'm not a fan of e-bay, mind...but
a question
has Sir Bob of 'last-minute.com'
fame got an alternative
greed scheme he wants put in its place???
paul c
i forgot to add to the above:
21.06.2005 14:25
FROM THE POOREST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET
WHILE LOOKING LIKE A CHARITY...
paul c
What can we do ?
21.06.2005 15:04
Indymedia is full at the moment of posts slagging them off, the reality is they both get things done, get people fed, sort out houses, water projects and the rest. Meanwhile the so called activist community here is fucking itself over concerning such key issues as how come Dissent hasn't sold enough train tickets for their Middle Class holiday break to Scotland.
Carry on with your talking,arguning and self righteous intellectual masterbation - we'll be making sure people in Africa are alive tomorrow.
Band Aid Worker
why should we demand to be entertained because of others suffering?
21.06.2005 16:28
people on the merry go round
that is charity fraud ...
will help
the system in the long run
or is criticism verboten???
we must not forget the medicin sans frontiers
situation in Afghanistan
where the workers were threatened
because they refused to side with the
empires will
as the troops trucks and wagons used aid as cover for their activities
what of the international red cross?
and their forced embedding in the
Iraq fiasco [warcrime]
what of the nefarious use of
extreme right wing missionary
groups such as world vision
etc...
throughout Africa?
as a conduit for rebel training
on behalf of extentions of the school of the Americas
With ex-SOA boss Negroponte now overseeing
P2OG / office of special plans - Rumsfeld
CACI / Stevedoring Services of America
a money laundering scam tied to the Equitorial Guinea
coup attempt and the same chelsea set
are involved in Sudans Darfur OIL GRAB
see
MI6 - Diversified Corporate Services
SAS - Tim Spicer, Simon Mann,
Aegis, Sandline, Pinochet
offshore laundering funding...Executive Outcomes
Mark Thatcher...Bell Pottinger
Bush...Riggs bank [in a similar deal to BCCI???]
Chalabi - Erynis -
corporate mercenaries hired from South African Aphartheid fascists
Autonomy Corporation, [Richard] Perle
Bio one - Giuliani Partners [yes THAT Guliani]
hmmm...?
should we
play POP the magic money solution
and look good for the global money scam
that is the 'entertainment industry'
er...which is making a mint out of
selling shiny discs at silly prices
a media that cost 5p to make ...
or
learn a trade
and join the VSO
and help people help themselves?
this is now not in vogue / not approved
as all autonomy [taught or not] is a threat
to the globalistion agenda...
further:
why should we demand to be entertained because of others suffering?
why should we demand to be entertained because of others suffering?
why should we demand to be entertained because of others suffering?
why should we demand to be entertained because of others suffering?
paul c
Re: Band Aid Worker
21.06.2005 16:52
The protests in Scotland will achieve fuck all, Geldoff will make a difference
sal
hmmm... i see...
21.06.2005 17:02
Sunday 19th June, 2005 (UPI) - Live 8 organizer Bob Geldoff says President George W. Bush has done more for Africa than any other U.S. president. In an interview with Time magazine, Geldoff said he recently defended Bush in France on that score.
"They refuse to accept, because of their political ideology, that he has actually done more than any American president for Africa," said Geldoff. But it's empirically so.
U2 singer Bono, who also participated in the interview, said Bush could still show more commitment to Africa.
"He feels he's already doubled and tripled aid to Africa, which he has," said Bono. "But he started from far too low a place. He can stand there and say he paid at the office already. He shouldn't, because he'll be left out of the history books."
Bono acknowledged that Bush is limited by the expense of war and growing U.S. debt.
"But I have a hunch that he will step forward with something," said the Irish rocker.
Geldoff, Bono and screenwriter Richard Curtis are the main organizers behind the upcoming Live 8, a series of free concerts scheduled for July 2. A show in London will feature Pink Floyd reunion on a bill with U2, Coldplay, Madonna and Paul McCartney.
Live 8 is intended to build public support for debt forgiveness and other aid for Africa by the world's major economic powers.
check that bono quote again:
"Bono acknowledged that Bush is limited by the expense of war and growing U.S. debt. "
paul c
The old and the new
21.06.2005 17:29
Lenin answered the question about Geldof in 1917 in the following terms;
“We rest our rifle on Kerensky’s shoulder, the better to aim it at Kornilov”.
We can be happy for Geldof to call for a million to Scotland without having illusions in him or betraying our anti-capitalist principles. There is no contradiction.
Caution – Sectarianism Ahead.
Memory-Hole-Catchers-Mitt
bob
21.06.2005 19:38
Geldof embrasses activsts in the uk because unlike so many of them he doesn't waste his time talking about organisational structures, banner making, dressing up as a clown or making a fool of himself with empty gestures and "awareness raising" stunts.
The protests in Scotland will achieve fuck all, Geldoff will make a difference
Well in fact there's been an awful lot of arguement about process in MPH - thing is you lot just don't see it because its not out in the open. Believe me there's a lot of it. Anyway, how come you can see that Geldof is in support of the protets?
Why don't you take your attacks on people that make banners some where else? Bob pays people to kmake banners, other people make their own and talk about how to do it - it's not really that difficult to understand is it.
bob
i'll make it easier
21.06.2005 19:40
IF WE HAVE TO KEEP PAYING FOR THE WARS
WHICH ARE ACTUALLY INVASIONS / OCCUPATIONS
FOR THE SPREAD OF NEO-LIBERALISM
WHICH IS REALLY CORPORATE FASCISM
HOW CAN WE MAKE POVERTY HISTORY?
ENDING THE CAUSES OF THE EMPIRES ASSAULT
ARE SURELY WHAT NEED TO BE TACKLED
THE TRAINING & FORMING OF ATTACK GUERRILLA FORCES
WITHIN THE POOREST ZONES BY COMPANIES AS PART OF
A SYSTEM OF REPRESSION OF DISSENT AND AUTONOMY
to allow this to continue we will ALL be the poorer...
i'm not just talking about money
wheras they always are...
Bonos statement seems to acknowledge that Bush and his pals
haven't finished raping their own respective OWN zone,
creating a poverty stricken wasteland
which no doubt will be a seamless recession
seeking to justify the draft for more wars...
which in turn seek to justify more terror
and then more draconian social engineering
masked as 'terror laws'
which seek to control ?
dissent against the actions of these cretins
controlling
freedom of speech
[see the silly new religious hatred laws]
freedom of movement
no habues corpus -
curfews, asbos, detention without trial
No ID card = no services
- the GPS satellite 'criminal' tagging...
& GPS road scheme,
the food/goods/fuel prices rocketing
index linked to the high
oil prices due to
Iraq being allowed - i would say actively encouraged to fester...
what do you think they have been discussing
in Sheffield?
all those security bods and securi-tech mandarins???
Gonzales who called 'human rights' a quaint historical detail'
Hazel Blears - who cited that Muslims will be disproportionately
targetted in terror 'swoops'
Goldsmith - who made up lies for Blairs war-crimes...
while they were actually bombing, trying to
get a reaction from a madmen who they lied,
had WMD capable of reaching this country in
45 minutes
i might add...
die on your feet
or live on your knees
have hope
paul c
Who the FUCK is kornilov?
21.06.2005 19:45
Anyway, to the ranting person who says the solution is to SUPPORT Bono and Geldof (i.e. uncritically), I say you have UTTERLY missed the point.
That point is this:
Debt relief is FLAWED if it comes with conditions of market-fundamentalism - selling off public assets at rock-bottom prices, deregulation of corporations, removal of the right to protect infant industries, charging unaffordable fees for public services, etc... and yet:
G + B are heaping lavish praise on Tony and Gordon (and the others) for cancelling (a small part of) the debt, whilst apparently failing to criticise them for these HARMFUL conditions.
Thanks to the person who posted quotes that demonstrate Bob and Bono ARE aware of these problems. That's interesting.
However, they're exactly shouting very loud about these things. Most people would get the impression that they're very happy with the G8's moves to supposedly help Africa. And most people would get the impression that (since Bob and Bono have taken on roles as spokespeople) most people in the 'movement' are supportive of the government.
If the ranting sceptic wishes to disagree with these points in a logical coherent manner, then go for it but to totally ignore the whole argument itself and just tell us to stop whining and behave ourselves makes him (and it probably is a him) look like a twat, a gimp, and (you get the general idea).
pissed off with those dim right-wingers
AND ANOTHER THING!!! ;-)
21.06.2005 19:50
Yes, B & G get stuff done. They are helping to get debt cancelled. And that can only be a good thing. BUT, the harmful conditionalities arguably will make things worse for Africa than they already were.
It's VITAL to criticise that.
The sceptical person telling us to shut and support bob and bono appears to think that there should be no debate within the movement and that activists should just let the celebrities get on with it and quit whining. I think that's a STUPID attitude to take.
me again
Homepage:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/06/314567.html
one more thing
21.06.2005 19:53
this is a couple of articles about how the governments are still doing more to harm than help Africa and how it is wrong to lavish praise on them or see them as saviours of the poor.
The first one is titled:
"Far from challenging the G8’s role in Africa’s poverty, Geldof and Bono are legitimising its power."
The second is titled:
"Spin, Lies and Corruption: The G8’s debt reduction plan is little better than an extortion racket"
That url again:
Check it out, some good arguments and facts...
.
Homepage:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/06/314567.html
Can the clueless please get a clue please
21.06.2005 19:58
irritated
correction
21.06.2005 22:35
I meant to say they're NOT exactly shouting very loud about these things
me again
How I see things
22.06.2005 02:39
Writing in the same paper ten days later, George Monbiot worries "The danger is that we will follow the agenda set by Bono and Bob Geldof...Anyone with a grasp of development politics who had read and understood the ministers' statement could see that the conditions it contains - enforced liberalisation and privatisation - are as onerous as the debts it relieves." Yet both Bob Geldof has called the debt relief package a "victory" and Bono called it "history". Monbiot acknowledges the good intentions of the two rock stars, but concludes he has "yet to read a statement by either...which suggests a critique of power."
Brown gave the game away when he described it as a Marshall plan for Europe. The Marshall plan was designed to rescue failing post-war European economies in order to create a market for US exports and to close the dollar gap. Rightly rejected by Stalin and the East European states under his persuasion, including Finland, it placed conditions upon its recipients which were to ensure the state-corporate "democracies" we live in today, with a preservation of existing structures of privilege, including putting many Nazi's back in power in Germany, incidentally, and ultimately serving US economic interests. Soviet foreign minister Molotov asked that the money be given without conditions. The US refused outright. Although cloaked in benevolence, like the current debt-relief package, the US congress was not persuaded to authorize the vast expenditure it represented ($4bn initially) out of altruism, but rather as the only way to stop the spreading menace in Europe of socialism in the form of grassroots workers and social movements of popular control. The Marhall plan was about "deterring democracy" (Chomsky 1992) both in Europe and in the Third World.
Given this track record, we can expect G8 debt relief to be much the same. Much of the relieved debt is, in any case, incapable of being paid. The conditions require strict neo-liberal policies and an undertaking by the recipients to eschew nationalisation of key industries. Would the G8 be prepared to relieve the debt without the conditions? If not, then what are their important consequences. In fact,as Pilger says, the '"aid" tied to extremist free market World Bank and IMF policies' has 'devastated the poorest countries.' Without any detailed economic or political analysis, the self-serving sentimentality of the Bob-Bono-feelgood-machine only legitimates Blair, Brown and the G8.
Remember, the 19th century imperialist scramble for Africa was legitimized, at least in part, by a Christian missionary zeal to save the savage souls of the dark continent. This moral obligation was known as "the white man's burden". Is Geldof a missionary for a secular age? Do we still need to learn to leave other countries alone to govern themselves?
Sorry for going on. That's just how I see things.
Stevie
pronounced "Chumley"
22.06.2005 08:34
Hence the question:
What can we do about Bono and Geldof?
Mr Cholmondley-Warner
Who the FUCK is kornilov?
22.06.2005 14:20
Memory-Hole-Catchers-Mitt
getting in touch
22.06.2005 15:09
>>
I did a google search on "geldof homepage" and found this site:
On that site I found a link "Message Board"
On that message board, i wrote this article:
suggestions - do more google searches for "geldof fan club", "bono home page", "geldof bbs" etc etc and write your appeals on those pages!
There's no guarantee that bono or geldof will read them... they probably have the eight most powerful political leaders on the planet hassling them and therefore don't have much time right now i guess, but spreading awareness everywhere is a good idea man. get onto it!
cheers all
sean
sean
good one sean
22.06.2005 18:29
thats a good posting
and i would back that as being on the record as a consensus
of how i feel, at least
any other takers?
paul c
Those who refuse to listen
22.06.2005 21:56
As the regards the Geldof forum, excellent suggestion and by all means post, but be aware there's a permanent thread at the top saying Geldof doesn't read the forum and they are closing anti-geldof threads. I'm sorry about that. "You can't persuade those who refuse to listen". (Socrates)
Stevie
Re: "'Memory etc...'" (whatever that was supposed to mean)
23.06.2005 12:12
2) What exactly are "my values"? I would be very surprised if you have anything other than the most warped, twisted and distorted understanding of what my values actually are. Construct a straw man and knock him down, that's your game.
who was kornilov?
kornilov
24.06.2005 02:45
I.e. Lenin's saying that the Bolsheviks must support the Provisional Government (which he thought represented the bourgeois revolution) against feudal reactionaries, although he wanted to overthrow that pretty soon by a revolution of workers and peasants anyway.
will
Dear whoever you are...
24.06.2005 12:07
Yes, Geldof and Bono are middle class. So what should our attitude be toward them when they start making noises critical of third world debt and calling for millions to protest against the G8?
I think it is similar to the one trade union militants adopt towards trade union bureaucrats and summed up in the phrase “working with and against the officials”. We support them so long as their words match our goals. Without the slightest illusions that they share our goals. We criticise them and champion our own values when their words do not match our goals. That approach allows us not to compromise our principles while at the same time allowing us to remain inside the movement rather than on its sidelines by simply denouncing its most popular leaders.
I must warn you that this approach has never, and will never, satisfy sectarians. The sectarian is concerned with retaining the revolutionary purity of their Programme. They believe that if such purity is retained the masses will become dissatisfied with the betrayals of their reformist leaders like Bono and Geldof. And so the small revolutionary sect will be sought out and hoisted onto the shoulders of a movement whose purity and class consciousness has risen to match that of their Programme. It is of course complete fantasy. The British Left is littered with the rotting hulks of many groups that pitched their sales in expectation of such a breeze.
Sectarians criticised the Bolsheviks in 1917 for working with Kerensky, their gaoler. Lenin explained the tactics by using the metaphor of the workers resting their rifle on Kerensky’s shoulder to shoot at Kornilov who was leading the forces of reaction. It is a pity you dismiss these lessons from history with such contempt. If you don’t learn how to deal with people like Bono and Geldof in this fashion you will allow the G8 to continue to divide and rule. They would prefer such lessons be consigned to the memory hole :-)
Memory-Hole-Catchers-Mitt
explain to me
24.06.2005 15:06
who are marginalised and dehumanised
by a system which deliberately
creates a politico-linguistic
socio-conversion mechanism
IE
------------------------------------------------
'unenlightened' = 'uneducated' = anarchist = savage = militant = terrorist
------------------------------------------------
against
------------------------------------------------
enlightened = educated [corporate] moral [religion/ political cult]
a psycho - linguistic control mechanism
yes men/women controlled
via think tank via corporate media
as 'perception management'
------------------------------------------------
see 'the third way ' and its journey via Clintons
Balkans blowjob blowback and NATOs
new agenda
and the think tanks'
such as:
Nexus/
Tavistock institute
psycho-political managemnet ensuring that
this would morph and would be the equivalent
of the Neocon agenda...
-----------------------------------------------
see Robert Cooper
The post-modern state and the world order
civilise or die
-----------------------------------------------
amongst many others
which would control the destiny of the
middle left and marginalise all dissent / debate
- see the 'leadership institute' in
the USA which gave the world Karl Rove
via Grover Norquist
we [the relatively well off]
have only the power to express ourselves
via the internet
[while that remains for now!!!]
how are any of US, the people
and the marching, dissenting, protesters
analysers...etc
'allowing'
Geldof [ a corporate whore]
and Bono [celebrity puppet to the elite]
????????????????
it is ludicrous to suggest that any of those
who are protesting are allowing anyone of these
grandiose leaders to do anything
they are appointed!
increasingly undemocraticly
who votes for the leaders and members of the world bank?
US?
or the leaders of the WHO?
US?
who voted Gerry spicegirl to be a UN goodwill ambassador
or Robbie Williams...?
did you?
No ...
all we have to do is choose between the
same yes men//women who are really corporate pointmen
all have only the interests of the cartel in mind
the common people are NOT on the inside of this
situation AT ALL...
paul c
Crowds in the streets
24.06.2005 21:22
'The protesters going to the G8 summit at Gleneagles ought not to allow themselves to be distracted by these games [Bono and Geldof]. If inspiration is needed, along with evidence that direct action can work, they should look to Latin America's mighty popular movements against total locura capitalista (total capitalist folly). They should look to Bolivia, the poorest country in Latin America, where an indigenous movement has Blair's and Bush's corporate friends on the run, and Venezuela, the only country in the world where oil revenue has been diverted for the benefit of the majority, and Uruguay and Argentina, Ecuador and Peru, and Brazil's great landless people's movement. Across the continent, ordinary people are standing up to the old Washington-sponsored order. "Que se vayan todos!" (Out with them all!) say the crowds in the streets.' (Pilger 2005)
PILGER, J. 2005. "John Pilger isn't celebrating victory" _New Statesman_ [online]. Available from:
Stevie