Sorry, forgot to shrink the image before uploading....

Make Poverty History flavour ice cream at G&D's

Did you get rid of poverty then?

Make Middle Class Student Protest History.

Make capitalism history!

(nicked from somewhere, schnews I think)

Yes, because god forbid that 200 students should take some time to actually *do* something, however symbolic and indirect. Much better that they become merchant bankers and ignore the existence of poverty and injustice - then you'd have more to be cynical about, wouldn't you?

Idiots.

For the record, some Dissent! people were at this event to actually engage with the protestors and discuss the
issues. You lot, whingeing on the Internet, would seem to rather it never happened at all. How the **** do you think you're ever going to convince people by telling them their protest has no value?

Matt

I find it amazing that someone actually took the time to write the cynical, self-righteous 'responses' to this article. Did this one event end poverty? No of course not, no single event in itself changes the world, but roughly 300 people came out to make an important statement, which is surely better than if they'd stayed at home sneering and typing negative and hostile comments on Indymedia? The MPH march in Edinburgh will be easily the biggest mass mobilisation since the Stop the War marches, presumably you will also sneer and carp about that being 'middle class'? How the hell are you going to 'make capitalism history' if you turn your noses up at mass movements?

This event has been reported in page 4 of the Oxford Mail today. It estimated '300-strong' showed up for it, and reported 'Up to 1000 people are expected to travel from Oxford to Edinburgh for a mass rally on July 2, to coincide with the G8 summit.'

"How the **** do you think you're ever going to convince people by telling them their protest has no value?"

Who are they convincing by holding hands around the Radcliffe Camera? Let's face it they were just trying to make themselves feel better by having a lovely little protest that won't make one iota of difference to people starving in Africa.

"Much better that they become merchant bankers and ignore the existence of poverty and injustice"

Once they've graduated and got a foot on the career ladder that's probably exactly what they'll do.

"Who are they convincing by holding hands around the Radcliffe Camera? Let's face it they were just trying to make themselves feel better by having a lovely little protest that won't make one iota of difference to people starving in Africa."

If this kind of action can raise awareness and raise the profile of issues about unfair trade rules and strangling unpayable unjust debts to the IMF and World Bank then that's good.

The actions of a few people don't make much difference on their own, but as part of a movement that includes over a million people in this country, it can have an impact.



>>"Much better that they become merchant bankers and ignore the existence of poverty and injustice"

Once they've graduated and got a foot on the career ladder that's probably exactly what they'll do.
Mike<<


Two possible answers:

a) It's probably what Mike himself would do himself given half the chance
b) Actually most students don't go on to become investment bankers, it is actually quite a small minority. Ditto business managers. All the people I was protesting @ uni with went on to do campaigning stuff or public services stuff or become teachers and things like that. The kind of students who were going to be investment bankers and corporate lawyers etc already knew that's what they wanted to do and many of them had already developed a nasty right wing attitude to go with it. They used to argue with us against boycotting Nestle, against trying to stop the war, etc... But Mike would rather paint a simplistic picture of student life in which EVERYONE is a wanker and EVERYONE is going to be a suit-wearing City worker.

Mike, with his "I hate ALL middle class people" would fit in Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge.

Blatantly having a class-based society is unfair, but there's no point in hating the actual individuals who are in the middle class. If you're born into a middle class family (which is quite a massive proportion of the population) what the fuck are you supposed to do? Be some kind of working class hero? Middle class people are human beings just like you Mike. OK we got lucky in an unfair system, are we do be hated for that? If so, screw you bitch. If you've got some job where you've got a middle class bloke who bosses you around and bullies anyone who tries to unionise and stuff like that, then blatantly you'd think he was a twat - but to hate ALL middle class people would be an over-reaction, blatantly. Middle class people who do actually want to make a difference and want a fairer world are constantly ridiculed by people like Mike.

Anyway, I think the more people who are protesting about something, the better. I wouldn't ever try to discourage *anyone* from protesting against injustice. Attack the system from as many different angles as possible. A movement of many different parts, with many different tactics is a strength not a weakness.

Good to see a bunch of middle class student keeping themselves busy now the exams are all over!

How did holding hands and wearing sweatshop made t-shirts and (non)ethical wristbands help end world poverty!

Lets all give money to charity like good old money bags Geldoff tells us and hope everything gets better. Its not bad to protest about things but charity is by far the shittiest solution any1 could come up with to solve a problem. Its convenient coz u only gota think about it once a year in some event which cost more than it makes and is run by rich people telling poor people to give money. But it harms the cause a lot. It sidetracks people from the real issue which is the system which will not allow Africa to raise itself from poverty as long as its in place. Capitalism has resulted in 80% of Africas wealth going to the west. Governments supported by the west are put in place to make sure that African wealth goes to the west, and then give those Governments some perks in form of charity to tell them what a good job theyve done. People like Geldoff are getting people like us to think that we can work with the criminals to improve the situation. Theyre hiding the bigger picture from us because the bigger picture means they wouldnt have the money they have. So stop with your feel good charity shit and use your heads and your voices to shout for things which will really change things for the better,

f'ing hell you're self-righteous. OH those stupid stupids, WHAT do they think they're playing at. If only they could be more like you...

abolishing charity and replacing it with justice... that's a great idea :-) But Make Poverty History isn't calling for charity - it IS calling for justice - ok they're demands don't go nearly far enough, but it's a start. And it's involving hundreds of thousands of people. If YOU can convert hundreds of thousands of people to anarchism, then that would be fucking brilliant - but in the mean time, if people from the general public can be radicalised even just a little bit in large numbers, that's better than nothing. I think it's good what you do and I think it's good what they do. It's good to have as broad a movement as possible. Getting involved in campaigns to change unfair trade rules and cancel international debt is for many people a gateway drug into more radical politics. And those campaigns if they succeed they won't bring a utopia but they'll make things a whole lot better than they were already. Whereas preaching to people about abolishing capitalism - unfortunately most people (middle OR working class) aren't very interested in that.

I totally agree that petitioning the king isn't as good as removing him. But the king and his empire look like they're sticking around for a wee while at least. I'll happily wear a white arm band and carry a black flag. I really can't see any contradiction. No doubt you'll want to flame me for writing this.

tHE POINT IS THAT I BELIEVE THESE CAMPAIGNS DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD IN THE LONG TERM. IF PEOPLE DONT GET EDUCATED ABOUT THE TRUTH BEHIND POVERTY AND ONLY LISTEN TO WHAT THE ROCKSTARS TELL THEM THEN ITS CLEAR THAT THIS PATTERN OF INCREASING PROBLEMS IN AFRICA WILL CONTINUE. AN THIS IS BECAUSE THE G8 WILL ALLOW FOR SOME BREADCRUMBS TO BE THROWN AT TEH CONTINENT SO THAT THEY CAN SHUT THESE PROTESTERS UP AND WILL CONTINUE TO RAPE THE CONTINENT LIKE THEYVE ALWAYS DONE AND GELDOFF WILL CLAIM SUCCESS FOR IT. EDUCATION IS KEY TO SOLVING THIS PROBLEM AND GELDOFF ISNT EDUCATING HES DOING THE OPOSITE.

As well-meaning as you might be, it is important to critique middle-class radicalism, the worst excesses of which can be seen in the so-called "Socialist Workers Party." Through several years of first hand experience I saw the negative effects of well-meaning, but ultimately counter-productive activities. Any attempt to discuss their effectiveness was met with a smiliar "at least we're doing something" response. Empty, tokenistic actions and an inability to create meaningful dialogue led to an inward-looking organistion, that marginalised the very people they were tyring to win over to their ideas. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe these stunts are preventing people joining your cause because they don't want to be spending their time holding hands in the academic districts of Oxford?

The important thing is to co-operate with people who are moving in the right direction, while at the same time criticising the elements and ideas of their movement which are actually collaborating with the system which must be radically transformed.

Make Poverty History has this usefulness: when people engage with this liberal reformist movement and work out that it can't abolish poverty, they might take a step further and criticise liberal reformism itself; they might come to think that actually we need socialism and alternative globalisation if we are to do it.

Any decent left-wing political praxis will be formed by its critique of liberalism. If you don't think and act liberally, how can you come to realise its limitations?

Let's engage critically with people who are ripe for moving into positions further left, rather than abuse them.

Will re: critical engagement

I again emphasise the SWP scenario, where many middle-class radicals have taken up the banner of revolutionary socialism, but have little ability to relate to and communicate with the working-class. Although SWPers may be "on message", and be able to quote Marx at the drop of a hat, the presence of such a cohesive, middle-class political bloc is an obstacle to the growth of the working-class movement.

Just to clarify / add information

-A large proportion of those who took part in the demonstration around the Rad Cam were not students. I would estimate only around 50% were. There were participants from across Oxford - including those already active in many different campaigns, and those completely new to social action campaigning.

-There were a number of stalls giving more information to people at the event of more concrete ways they can take action, including information from Corporate Watch, Disent, P&P and others.

-A key focus of the event was both to generate more local awareness of the MPH campaign - and to bring together groups from across Oxford campaigning under the MPH banner (although between them focussing on a diverse range of proactive and change-focussed campaigns).

Lots of different groups (and individuals) from oxford are mobilising around the G8. Lots of people with different approaches to action but the same underlying motive. Tonight there's a meeting to hook up and co-ordinate.

G8 Network Meeting, Tuesday 14th June at 7.30pm at The Friends Meeting House, 43 St Giles Street. Come and share what you are planning to do around the G8 Summit happening 6-8th July in Perthshire Scotland.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whether you are travelling to Scotland or staying in Oxford, this meeting is for the diverse groups of Oxford to share information on how they are campaigning around the G8 Summit. In a similar vein to the anti-war network meetings of previous years this space is to discuss a number of issues including raising the profile of issues around the Summit in Oxford, supporting each others campaigns, sharing practical information on Scotland and for those not able to go, discussing what we can do in Oxford. This is an opportunity to meet each other, build networks and create a space for people in Oxford to get more involved.

There will be a summary of events planned in Scotland and groups will have the opportunity to talk about their activites in Oxford before the meeting is opened for wider discussion. Please foward any agenda items to
 tabitha747@riseup.net.

My gawd....how sad that those trying to bring some sense of justice to the world wind up reinforcing injustice. Adding an air of legitimacy to a corruopt order doesn't do much to reverse thing does it? . It helps G8 leaders to get off the hook while mainitaining a facade of "legitimacy".

How can you ask for a piece of the pie without questioning the nature of it?

For a world free of northern based ngo's deciding what is best for the planet....

Pleading and appealing to gangsters and murderers is a very slippery slope...can't we stop and try something new now/