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635 Ready for court?

Maximus | 08.04.2005 21:53 | Anti-racism

It is on the grapevine that the police are about the arrest

It is on the grapevine that the police are about the arrest several members of the gang of anti racists who attacked the BNP meeting in Halifax and caused several thousand pounds worth of damage.

Isnt it time that we started using our politics to beat our opponents and not bricks and clubs. Why do some Anti fascists feel they have to incite violence. Regardless of what you say, you cant attack pensioners and children and hope to beat a political idea with this! We need argument and support from the masses, not thuggery and violence.

If our argument is correct and morally right, lets stand against them, unite and fight.

Max

Maximus

Comments

Hide the following 15 comments

Actions speak louder than words

09.04.2005 02:57

This talk of beating the threat of fascism with the strength of our arguments is all very noble but doesn't really amount to anything more than that...

The whole aim and purpose of fascist organisations like the BNP is to stop ANY freedom of speech and oganisation for progressive working class people. At what point do we stop debating with them? Is it when they attack left wing meetings? Or attack trade unionists? Or when they organise groups of them to attack black and Asian people on the street?

Debate might be a very nice way of going about things, but these fascists are not interested in talking to us and moving away from their politics. They do not have a 'right' to free speech because everything they say is geared towaards taking that same right away from people and groups that are progressive.

The rise of Mussolini, Hitler and Franco all show that the only thing that can stop fascism is the working class organising to destroy them.

After all, wasn't that what drove the NF off the streets in the 70's?

Josh
Homepage: http://www.worldrevolution.org.uk

Violence against kids and OAPs ok then?

09.04.2005 09:19

Josh,

Be honest. When was the last time the BNP attacked one of our meetings? It doesnt happen as you know, which is why we can advertise in papers, where as the BNP has to use the cloak and dagger method because of violence and threats. Hurling bricks at kids and pensioners is not the right way to go about doing anything.

We need to beat our opponents with political arguments, and if we cant do that and have to resort to violence we have lost. You are not going to get any sympathy from the public when a child gets hit by a brick and killed by a masked thug, but the BNP will.

Violence is not the answer. There is a saying called Karma which means what you sow, you reap. If you committ violent attacks on people because they disagree with you, then it will eventually come back and haunt you.

Max

Max

Violence!

09.04.2005 09:36

So you think violence is the way do you Josh. Are you going to be volunteering to crack skulls. You say he BNP attack, Union meetings and left wing meetings, pull the other one. And even if they did who could blame them after having bricks thrown at their kids.

I notice that internet politicians like you with your crumby site dont ever stand in elections and put your name and address by what you stand for.

The BNP may be far right, but at least its candidates have guts. They dont hide behind web pages calling for violence and pretending their tough with violent talk. No they put their names and addresses forward and stand up for what they beleive in.

Hey Josh, cut to student tough talk and get down to real politics. Dare you stand up for what you beleive in or are you just another one who talks tough and spends far too long on internet chat room sites.

Rich

Rich

Which grapevine?

09.04.2005 10:26

Which grapevine is that then Maximus Gobbus, the police grapevine, the Crimestoppers grapevine, the fascist grapevine, or the liberal wankers trying to get anti-fascists loced-up grapevine?

Red N Black

Fascist on a wind-up

09.04.2005 10:49

Check out some of Maximus Tosser's other recent postings, he's just a racist on a wind-up. Fascists are regularly posting to Indymedia sites recently - and if you want to read about a sad bunch of cunts you should check THEM out. The purpose of this is not just to divide and confuse anti-fascists, but to gain information, often through provocative postings, from people too clueless enough to give it away, and others who insist on stupid speculation about actions they have nothing to do with.

As for the Collett/Tyndall/Griffin court appearance in Leeds this week, there were others of us around - we just didn't think standing next to the cops with placards, getting filmed, was a particularly good tactic. As for the BNP "turning nasty" - Well you had plenty of coppers to protect you from flying handbags - They were back out of town as fast as they came in, none of the Little Englanders even stayed for coffee.

Mobilising against fascism is a serious business, and not something to be organised or chattered about on open forums like Indymedia. Most of the real anti-fascist work going on in West Yorkshire doesn't even get reported, that doesn't mean it's not going on.

Anti-fascist

yawwwnnn

09.04.2005 12:00

yawn yawn yawn yawn,

635group@mail.com

red119

Red119

09.04.2005 12:29

Red119, recently you posted asking people to send info on the BNP to the address you've just given -

635group@mail.com - This is not the address of The 635 Group, which is

the635group@mail.com. You are not a member of The 635 Group, and you've caused a fair bit of confusion. If the apology you made is sincere, can you please find yourself another e-mail address and stop posting one which at best confuses people, and at worst misleads them?

Antifa

response to max's story

09.04.2005 15:22

Max

To say your so-called story is riddled with error would be an understatement. I've not previously heard of the police kindly alerting a 'grapevine' of impending arrests. I think you're full of shit, and if you aren't a fascist or an agent provocateur, you're doing their work unwittingly.

Your repetition of lies which should by now have been laid to rest indicates to me, if not immediately to others, that you're not all you claim to be.

Larry Tait

anti racist strategy

09.04.2005 17:38

throwing bricks at cars. having a riot... you might feel a little better afterwards having busted up the hood but all you'll get is a government minister planting a tree and opening a sports centre. riots or violence against smaller groups does not stop racist whites voting in racist politicians, families enjoying being racist in their homes or white employers like city councils or building contractors continuing long entrenched racist employment tactics. jobs for the boys, innit.

it's not the 70s but this country is still rife with racism. it's appalling. why isn't more done? i see black people struggling against the system and wonder where the organised but peaceful resistance is against racism. it should be massive. but of course, everyone, and especially people subjected to racism, is infected with the idea that racism is inevitable and that working for a better deal within that system is the best you can hope for. it isn't. get organised.

- -

All this fuss

09.04.2005 22:40

All this fuss because some fascists got their cars damaged?!!! I'd hate to be in a police station with some of you fucking wankers.

Hector

Well Maximus

10.04.2005 10:06

You have your answer. These people can't argue their case properly, so they resort to violence. As we see on this site, they can't really string more than a few words together without silly cries of wanker, or fuck off etc. Shocking! The Nazis used violence against the Jews. Maybe that was because it was, and is , difficult to articulate exactly why Jews are inferior people. Using thuggish violence to get your way is fascism. Calling yourself an anti-fascist does change that simple fact.

les

Not Les Again!

10.04.2005 11:46

The Nazis did a bit more than “use violence against the Jews”, they set out to exterminate them as a race. They didn’t attempt to do this because they were a bit tongue-tied, but because they gained power partly because of fascist apologists, cowards, liberals, and head-in-the-sand idiots like Les. And, ultimately, it took a bit more than the well-reasoned argument Les cluelessly deludes himself into thinking he’s capable of to defeat them.

Why don't you and Maximus, Ed, and the other spineless liberals, unaffected white middle-class idiots, BNP apologists, and closet fascists all get together, and have a moan over a cup of nettle tea about how rotten it is that Nick Griffin might have had his car damaged, and how 'thuggish' some of us are to want fight back when our communities are targetted by fascists.

Anti-Fascist

Why Don't You...

10.04.2005 11:57

Why don't you log onto the Stormfront UK guestbook Les, I'm sure you'd feel a lot more at home? Or you could try putting your views on the WNP guestbook.

Hector

Arrrggh!

10.04.2005 12:02

The Nazis 'used violence' against the Jews because they found it difficult to articulate why they considered them to be inferior people??!!!!

You've got an astounding grasp of history Les.

Red N Black

Why should I Hector?

10.04.2005 14:20

I like talking to you over the internet. I don't mind talking to most people face to face, but I make an exception for people who are so convinced of their moral correctness that they reserve the right to throw bricks, while condemning others for thuggishness.

les