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International Anti-G8 Meeting Minutes: Tuebingen, Germany 26-27 Feb 2005

asfa | 15.03.2005 11:15 | G8 2005 | Globalisation | Social Struggles | World

International Anti-G8 Meeting Minutes: Tuebingen, Germany 26th-27th February 2005

The following are the minutes of a two day international meeting to co-ordinate radical resistance to the 2005 G8 Summit to be held in the UK. The meeting took place in Tuebingen, Germany and was hosted by the Tuebingen Infoladen. The meeting was organised by the Dissent! International Networking Group.

To contact the Dissent! International Networking Group for comments upon, or corrections to, these minutes, email:  info-g82005@riseup.net

For more information about Dissent! see: www.dissent.org.uk or email the above address.

Note: the original agenda and the invitation to the meeting, in English, German, Spanish, Italian, French and Greek, can be found on the Dissent! website: www.dissent.org.uk

Introductory Note
The weekend’s agenda was put together by the Dissent! International Networking Group in early January 2005 and circulated for comments. An open meeting was held on Friday February 25, 2005, the night before the meeting began to incorporate comments into the agenda. The final agenda was as follows:

Saturday February 26, 2005
*First Session: Opening Session
Introduction to the venue, go-round for everyone to introduce themselves.

*Second Session: Introduction to the Mobilisation
An introduction to: Dissent!; the other groups organising around this year’s G8 Summit (specifically: G8 Alternatives and Make Poverty History); the political situation in Scotland; the presentation of the Summit and the protests in the UK mainstream media until now; the alternative and independent media coverage of the mobilisation; the issue of climate change and the G8 Summit.

*Session Two: Police Tactics and Legal Information
An introduction to police tactics commonly used in the UK, and some Scotland specific legal information.

***Lunch***

*Practicalities Working Groups
Working group sessions on various practical aspects of the mobilisation.

*Action Working Groups
Working groups to discuss: the blockades, climate change actions and “People’s Golfing Action”.

*Final Plenary and Finalising the Agenda for the Following Day


Sunday
*Small Group Sessions
The day mostly consisted of groups meeting to discuss specific aspects of the mobilisation and how people from outside of the UK can feed into them. These sessions took place in two blocs. Small group meetings included: medics, roadshow, hill walking, the mainstream media, precarity, indymedia, organising against repression, preventing and dealing with trauma, overcoming problems on borders, and translation.

*Final Plenary
Feedback from the small groups and the working groups from the previous day about what had been discussed and decided. Evaluation of the weekend.

Additionally: A German-language meeting and the UK-based Dissent! International Networking Group also met. Minutes available at the end of this document.


Saturday 26th February


First Session: Opening Session
Countries people are from and where mentioned groups.
Approx- 90 people.
Finland, Germany, Ireland (Gluseicht), France (Anti-G8 networks), Russia (IMC network), Netherlands (Rampenplan, IMC), Israel, Lebanon (Marhaba tour), Switzerland (G8 group) Sweden, Barcelona, Italy, Netherlands, England (IMC, Trapese), Chile, Scotland, US, Canada, Belgium, Greece, Finland. Belaraus


Second Session: Introduction to the Mobilisation
Brief introductions to: Dissent!, and the other mobilisations against the Summit (such as G8 Alternatives and Make Poverty History, the attitude of the mainstream media to the Summit and the protests, and some of the actions being prepared were given. Here are the notes taken from those introductions:


Introduction to Dissent! (UK)
Dissent was formed around the fall of 2003- to create a mobilization against the G8 but also to try and build a network beyond that. It is made up of various autonomous and radical movements and organizations. Dissent has a number of local and working groups throughout Britain. Dissent! Has adopted the PGA hallmarks and is based on principals of consensus decision making decentralization and a direct action.

Dissent has bi-monthly meetings and the minutes are available to download on the website. Since 2003 Dissent! Has continued to expand and grow. There are two other groups mobilizing to Scotland.

Note: An intervention was made, commenting that the PGA Hallmarks do not cover everything and do not, in themselves, make a movement. Some found the Hallmarks problematic. Some groups present at the meeting would not join the mobilisation under the Hallmarks, due to the problems they have with them.”


Scottish Situation
The political context of Scotland. There is a strong history of resistance in Scotland- miners, crofters and rent strikes- there is a strong working class. There is a tradition of rural and urban struggle. Rurally people are less likely to come out in mass protests- recent acts of resistance have included rent-racking (people coming down from the highlands to protest against increased rent) More recently in Edinburgh- there has been poll tax strike and various occupations, including the occupying of the Autonomous Centre in Edinburgh. The anti war protests brought record numbers of people out to protest. There is also strong resistance to GM crops.

Differences you may expect- Scottish people are quite reserved- but not unfriendly. They become involved in political issues if they believe they are right. The main point is to try and build on the strong undercurrent of feeling of right and wrong and builds on that. We have the largest population of box dwellers (people living in social housing). They have tried to put the G8 in an inaccessible place the best way to deal with this is to come to Scotland to protest this. There will be infrastructure in Scotland to support people.

It’s important to remember that Scotland is not a colony of England


Make Poverty History
Make poverty history (MPH) is the biggest campaign coalition of NGO’s there has been in the UK and is made up of people from Oxfam, local churches and big relief groups. It’s important specifically because they are organizing a large demonstration several days before the summit starts. They are talking mostly about third world debt and also talking about increasing aid and changing some of the trade rules that govern trade.

The UK labour government is making a very big media and political strategy around the G8. The UK government propaganda is arguing that the G8 summit is all about poverty and climate change and how the labour government is dealing with this. Many people in the UK are beginning to think that this G8 is about making the world a better place.

Some of the smaller NGO’s are critical of forced economic liberalization (WTO, GATTS etc) and are much more radical- they have been trying to make a stance but they are a small voice within the bigger coalition. The picture that is being painted that Make Poverty History is the good protestors and Dissent! Are the bad protestors?

Senior people from MPH are saying it’s not a march it’s a walk and they are working with the Scottish tourist board. They are not encouraging people to stay after the Saturday, July 2nd march. MPH is part of a much world wider coalition of NGO’s mobilizing for the WTO ministerial in Hong Kong and Millennium Goal seminars.

MPH is absolutely terrified that the bad protestors will attempt to disrupt their march.


G8 Alternatives
G8 Alternatives was set up by Globalize Resistance- a front group for the Socialist Workers Party- whom a number of groups have had problems with in the past. The Scottish CND, free party people and the Green Party also make up G8 Alternatives. G8 Alternatives are trying to get permission through the Scottish parliament for a rock concert for the duration of the summit. They have also called for a protest on July 6th at Gleneagles train station.

It is important to note that the SWP is different from the SSP (The Scottish socialist party who are a respected Scottish political party).


Climate
Climate change and Africa are big topics at the G8. Climate change is fuelled by oil, which is fuelled by capitalism, and we are trying to break the climate issue from just being centered on the environment into a wider anti capitalist context. We are coordinating an International day of action on the 8th of July to link oil, war, climate change and the G8 summit.


Corporate Media
There has been a lot of publicity about the summit. Most of the articles are about the issues- climate change and debt or about potential protests and security arrangements. It is important to note that the mainstream media get fairly hysterical in the build up to such summit. It will get considerably worse before the summit. In the past with actions such as reclaim the Streets, June 18th and Mayday the press has gone insane and just lied. Headlines like “Protestors will use samurai swords”, “We will use children as a shield against police”

We have to be aware of this. G8 Alternatives and Make Poverty History are speaking to the media and this is perpetuating the myth that Dissent! are the bad protestors?


Independent Media Centers
There is going to be IMC facilities in Scotland but IMC will not organize accommodation for people. There is a grassroots political group in Glasgow called Camcorder Guerillas that make documentaries. They are currently working on a G8 video. IMC is not affiliated to DISSENT! Or any other political organisation. IMC UK stands for United Kollectives not the United Kingdom.


Mobilisations Taking Place Outside of the UK
Lyon, France
We are organising a festival of resistance for three weeks during April and May. 1 week will focus on the G8 summit. In our meeting in Lyon people did not really want to go to Edinburgh, however we will explain to people that there is a mobilization to Scotland. We are not enormous amounts of people in Lyon.
During the G8 summit we will build urban zones of resistance in solidarity with the G8 summit.

Russia
We see the G8 in Scotland as an opportunity to bring attention to the G8 in Russia as not many people know about them and their next meeting will be in Russia. We cannot create very much in our country because there is a lot of repression. There will be solidarity actions in Minsk, Moscow and Kiel. One idea is to play golf near the UK embassy.

Germany
There is a German-speaking Dissent! Network to mobilise people from German speaking countries. A lot of posters for the German speaking world have been produced, there are 30,000 stickers, 40-50 CD’s, newsletters. There is a big meeting in Hamburg from the 4th-8th of May. The German network is organizing info-tours and evenings around German speaking countries about the legal situation and the G8. In 2007 the G8 summit will be in Germany and this is an important part of the outreach work being done.

Middle East
In our countries the movements are not really connected to the G8 and WTO. We are doing a tour called “Marhaba” around Europe we would like to use this tour as an opportunity to open space for debate about the role of the G8 in our countries through terrorism and security issues. We are bringing people to Scotland to form a Middle Eastern block and to make the links and connections with the situation in our countries.

Netherlands (Report given by: Rampenplan)
There is a festival which around 25,000 people will attend and we would like to use this as an opportunity to outreach and mobilize people. There are also info nights and local groups preparing to come to Scotland

*****************************
Other Comments made during this session:
Britain/UK
There has been a war going on in Northern Ireland for the last 500 years that has seen many people killed. UK includes Northern Ireland, Britain does not. Both are complicated terms with lots of issues but its better to say Britain.

London/Berlin Refugee Issue
The idea is to use the G8 summit to highlight the plight of refugees and asylum issues. There is an appeal to the international network mobilizing against the G8 to discuss how to build asylum issues into the G8 protests and Dissent! Network.
*****************************


Third Session: Legal Advice and Police Strategies
An extensive briefing was given on this topic, followed by a question and answer session. The basis of the presentation was taken from the Legal Guide which is now available online from: www.g8legalsupport.info


*****Lunch Break*****



Practicalities Working Groups
Working Group I: Camps, Convergence Centres, Catering, Fundraising, Local Transport
An update was given to the meeting on the situation as it stands in the UK.


The Convergence Centre(s)
Dissent! is looking for a large convergence centre, currently there is not one. Convergence spaces are being looked for in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Stirling and Perth. Due to the location of the G8 summit a lot of comparisons are being drawn with the protests in Evian against the G8. It is assumed unlikely that the government will give a space to protests as they have done in Evian, Genoa and Prague.

We would like to get both an urban and rural space. We will need to get around 20,000 more Euros to pay for these convergence centres, as we are unlikely to be given anything by councils or the government.

Dissent! has come to the consensus decision to squat if a legal convergence can’t be found. There is a lot of countryside around, however it would be safer to get a legal convergence space. Dissent! also has an agreement with groups like Scottish CND to have autonomous zones within a wider convergence centre.

Political Aspects of the Convergence Centre:
Quite early on in the G8 mobilization it was explicitly decided one of the most important aspects is creating a convergence space where there are new experiences of collective self-management, where people organize themselves and facilitate autonomous action, build unity and networks.

The idea would be to run the convergence centres a month before hand to encourage groups to come and have their meetings in Scotland.
Part of the reason we are having difficulties.
1. We need more support from within government
2. Money
3. More people to help find the convergence centre.

There will be a training course on setting up a large rural campsite at the end of May to the beginning of June.

The issue of convergence centres has been brought up in Scottish parliament by MSP’s. There is a great deal of hype surrounding the issues of convergence centres in the media and the police are rumoured to have approached land owners and warned them not to rent their land out.

The following things are needed for the convergence centre
Supply of water and cheap ethical food
Electricity
Marquees (i.e. big tents)
Transport
Bicycles
Tools
Kitchens
Toilets
Paper
Indymedia Centre
Insect Repellent
Medical Equipment
Communication Equipment (CB radio/ phones)
Wood/nails building materials
Straw
Lighting
Effective and participatory decision making processes
Effective ways of integrating and including people in the process
Site infrastructure
Internal camp communication structure
Children’s Space
Skilled people
Security


Catering
The Anarchist Teapot kitchen in Brighton is the contact point for anything to do with food (email:  anarchisttpot@yahoo.co.uk website: www.eco-action.org/teapot). They are trying to find local suppliers for things like propane gas, water, dried food suppliers. Also the Anarchist Teapot are compiling information so that it’s accessible to other food collectives. So far there is absolutely no idea how many people are coming so it’s been hard to estimate how many kitchens would be needed.

Cooking Capacity of Kitchens
Rampenplan: When they have enough people they can cook for 2000-3000
Anarchist Teapot: Can make good food for 500 and lots of soup for 1000
Heidelberg: Can cook for 50-60
Other big kitchens in Hanover and Belgium will be contacted. A list will be made of kitchens that are coming and also of kitchens that need to be contacted.

Anarchist Teapot are sourcing local organic food suppliers where possible.

There is no guarantee that all the kitchens will get into the country so it is important that people think about being as self- sufficient as possible.

Action Points
Anarchist Teapot has 3000 pounds that they can put into the kitchens.
A team of drivers and vans to get food into the camps (around 17 tones will be needed per day) is being found
Contact other food kitchens that were at the VAAG


Marquees (Large Tents)
Currently there are no marquees. It must be noted that even though it is summer in Scotland it does rain a lot. However we can build geo-desic domes if we can source the wood and tarpaulins.

Action Points
• Some one from Germany can bring two large tents
• Someone from Holland who works for a tent company will see what possibilities he has to bring tents over.
• Everyone should bring his or her own tents where possible
• People in the UK will contact various festival organizers to try to source tents
• Dissent! will set up an email address and make sure the convergence list is sent out to everybody.
• Vaaag recommends making a wish list and sending this out.

Discussion about structure of decision-making processes for the convergence spaces
In Strasbourg in the camp was sub structured into different barrios. These were autonomous and people came together in a spokes council with the whole camp on a daily basis.

It is very important that we build an alternative within to the camp but not to set our objectives too high and to make them unattainable. It is difficult to organize truly participatory processes for 10,000 people and decision-making structures need to be very clear and accessible to all.


Fundraising
Everybody needs to do as much fundraising as possible in their own country. Dissent! is fucked for money and really needs help.

Rampenplan are cooking at a commercial festival two weeks before the G8 and will donate around 10,000 euros.

There is a question about the structure of funding, how money is spent, where it goes, how the decisions are made.

Clarification point: groups and individuals who donate money can specify where they want it to be used


Local Transport
There are fairly good public transport link between Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling and Perth. Drivers are needed for buses. People with transport need to work out in advance how much their van/bus will be available for public use.


Practicalities Working Group II: Refugees, Aliens and International Networking
International Mobilisation - invitations to come to Scotland for G8 Summit

These notes cover what various people said and are not agreements of whole meeting.

General go round brain storming
What would the people like to talk about? explanation about the workshop, by people from the last night meeting planning. the invitation: we should consider different factors, and make it really international, we have to clear it because it is, vague, it might be difficult in for everybody. talk about transportation, border, travelling? how we build and engage people to be part in the mobilisation? and linking up with them.

Agenda
what to talk about? mobilisation, invitations. who will organise this thing and how to stress the immigration issue. using the pga. for it? working together with no borders of that, talks in Porto Algiers about the G8 and the the globalisation bodies, and outcome a translation movement. know more about other countries . problem of transportation, to organise border travelling, emphasis from a lot on that, how to mobilise, provide resource for information. financially very hard to get people here, so make anther sort of solidarity action, the visas, have a group that would help in that. to have a network for mobilisation, travelling, bicycle. how to mobilise people to go there and groups to work locally, would like to make discussion more practical. to mobilise inside asylum seekers home in UK, and depending on resource, and going beyond borders, to highlight the restriction of movement to asylum seekers. how can we get the people in the mobilisation and to be in the action of the PGA. problems at the borders, to think about the other people that would face such thing and to focus on it. talking about going to buses, and how, when to mobilise. transport and getting more people. we are not few, and a lot of people are sympathetic, there is a way to get people to be involved and supportive. start building links with the people. set a strategy of solidarity. to network to link, refugee and G8. planning and action. 26th of March a meeting in London, anti repression, having a mobilisation meeting as part of Dissent. How to expand the fact that people from all over should be there, not an additional thing. points: transportation; how do we get people? sharing skills, resources to mobilise? linking networks.

sharing skills. in Berlin a lot of materials, they have posters and stickers for German speakers. the "trapese", having a cdrom, has movies and presentation templates and infos about G8 , there is no time for other projects. there is website from Canada about it. to post it in all imcs, and fundraise through parties to make ads for G8. and to break the anti G8 circle and just people looking it up for themselves. to get people interested. throught Marhaba Europe, need more materials . project of people in Scotland to host people from Middle East, East Europe, and Africa, we can take the discussion to our local group and then, work it out with the people from Scotland. news letter in German, and info cds, about G8. info evening about migration and G8, and announce this on the list and media as well. languages as it is hard for people to read English, to find a native website, wiki is the name.
 http://www.dissent.org.uk/


TRANSPORTATION AND BORDER PROBLEMS
if you are not an EU citizen you may need an invitation to the UK. helpful if from company. those from Scotland to go back to find groups to take this on, to see if the invitation, and there is a collective working on many issues, and it is important to start now. no firm answer. We should continue discussion about invitation. create a mailing list to help link invitation and invited. how can we get to Scotland, which is cheap, safe, and what routes . suggestion : ferry boat, and mostly single, or just in cars or small minbuses and look main stream: also when do you plan to come? 2 day early or 2 weeks, and what do you get in leaflets . Flights direct to Scotland with such as ryanair.com can be cheap and then ferry, the best might be individually, and to set different direct action before the G8, and make a lot of noise. making actions and free movement issue, building a campaign about that and borders. hitch hiking eg with Lorrys can be interesting. to pressure the NGO people for more action. the immigration control if you are illegal, and some people should be with you, going to Gastons court case, and witness because he might have movements restricted. is it possible to sneak in the political groups, like socialist groups, trade unionist? how can we get people to help others in the borders issue. do direct action is case if buses got turned from entering Scotland. get copy of meeting minutes, and everybodies email. So people can start working. and focus on this subjects. Check various ferry routes. If we will have no borders day of action it should be with the NGOs, trade unions demonstration.

NO BORDERS NETWORK. They are busy. check the email list, but nothing for G8. The Strasbourg people want to do something but not enough people. Suggested to use an Internet Relay Chat channel, to talk more about initiatives.

Summary of possible initiatives
• Solidify information and arrangements for travel.
• No Border efforts over 2 days to welcome international comrades across border.
• Bring refugees / stateless people, whose movements are restricted, themselves into core of mobilisation.
• Direct linking up specific groups of possible attendees from afar i.e. outside EU with hosts in Scotland who engage with each other before hand to enable them to come, with visas, travel arrangements and secure place to stay.


Additional Notes
Next Dissent International Working group meeting 26th of March in London hosted by the Voice Refugee Forum with outreach being done to bring in other groups.

There is already existing g8refugee action:  http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/g8refugee-action

another list yet to be worked out coming from makebordershistory initiative from this meeting may be set up.

 http://www.makebordershistory.org domain now obtained.


Action Working Groups


Group I: Blockades
Intro (by organisers)
Blockades list address is on the Website.

Trident Ploughshares and CND are organizing a blockade of Faslane nuclear submarine base on 4th July. They’ve called for a non-violence approach.

Dissent! blockades early on the 6th, with the aim of stopping the delegates arriving. Dissent! is trying to work out a way of coordinating autonomous blockades using different styles.

Discussion Points:
• Does everyone support the strategy of blockades (given the impact on people in northern Scotland)?
• Timing, is 6th too late to disrupt the summit?
• Road or rail blockading?
• Should we focus on Gleneagles, or are there other hotels/sites of value to the summiteers?
• The top delegates can be moved by helicopter, but not all the personnel (aides, translators, chefs, etc.) cannot. Police and media are expected to be at Stirling; caterers at Crieff.

History of pickets/blockades in Britain
In 1970s there were many successful mass blockades in strikes, including miners strikes; in 1980s police tried and often succeeded in preventing movement of pickets.

There has also been a tradition of using smaller numbers with special equipment, i.e. lock-on tubes, tripods, etc. but there is a pool of expertise amongst the police in dealing with this.

Crowds of school children in antiwar protests have routinely out-manouvered police in Scotland.

Brain-storm
• Blocking the A9 only would divert a high volume of traffic on to minor roads, which can’t handle them.
• The size of the red zone is not known yet.
• The number of people who turn up will dictate tactics.
• Terrain dictates tactics, so reconnaissance important.
• How do we organize communication? (Separation of blockades dictates autonomy anyway).
• Do we respect diversity of tactics (in different places, obviously)?
• There was some discussion and criticism of the colour-coded approach (as per Prague).

Proposal: “We object to the illegitimate G8 summit going ahead, and we call for a blockade of the routes into Gleneagles Hotel on 6th July; if the G8 does not go ahead, we will reconsider our call”, (carried by unanimous consent).


Group II: Climate change group against the G8
July the 8th – international day against the profit makers of climate change

There is an environment minister meeting before the summit. 16th/17th of March. Often the ministers meetings are very important as decisions get taken there and problems get smoothed out before the actual summit.

A climate group has been created between climate chaos groups, road protests network and is trying to work together with other environmental groups.

Research has been done by Corporate Watch and produces a lot of information about the oil industry in Scotland. A booklet about the different action targets is being put together.

The day of action on the 8th has been announced publicly, but not the target. If we only work with affinity groups then we could avoid announcing it and keeping the target secret. There is also an idea to do simultaneous actions at different targets.
An email list has been set up to co-ordinate events and actions
 g8climateaction@lists.riseup.net

Opinions:
• There was a proposal to ask the caravan to Katmandu start on the same day as the climate day of action.
• It would be good to have one kind of public action.
• The question is if there actually are affinity groups who would like to work on that.
• People in Paris are working on decrease in consumption and are also thinking about doing actions.
• It would be good to have the public action as a reclaim the streets party


Group III: Action Group Meeting: People’s Golfing Association
About 20 people attended the meeting:
• Enthusiasm was expressed for two events:
o The PGA tournament called for July 7th will go ahead with the goal to get to Gleneagles golf course or as close as possible for a game of golf. It was suggested that this could take the form of a competition with various foursomes and other affinity groups scattering towards the course in a “scramble” type golf tournament (which is an actual type of tournament).
o The second idea came from a concern that as people may be tired, arrested or have low energy for July 7th, using mini/crazy golf as a mobile blockade in a similar fashion to the pink fairies in Prague. Thus, golfers would just pop-up for spontaneous golfing actions and therefore, if there were blockades, there would be an opportunity for spontaneous golf. Golf was thus viewed as a theatrical device.
• There was recognition of the symbolism behind golf, the various metaphors and how it can be drawn upon. One suggestion was give around the G8 countries “playing with” the rest of the world i.e. Developing world countries are golf balls to be played with. Rich countries are playing with poor countries. It was also suggested that countries not in the G8 could be portrayed as caddies.
• It was noted that people in Russia are looking to do a parallel golfing action during the G8 Summit which may involve golf in front of the British embassy.
• Suggestions were made to
o Develop alternative rules for golf
o Graphically design alternative score cards
o Develop alternative dress codes for golf
o Suggestions were made to put up a score board during the lead up to the Summit to advertise the event and recruit more golfers for the July 7th action. It was also felt that a strategic meeting at the convergence space would be necessary to coordinate the tournament.
• As golf is a Scottish national past time, it was felt that the emphasis should be clearly placed on Gleneagles and the G8 so as to not confuse Scottish people that golf in general is being critiqued.
• It was recognised that golf was able to converge with hill walking and/or blockades
• It was suggested that there should be certain meting points devised for golfers to meet.
• A suggestion was made to contact the UK group “Space Hijackers”
• The dilemma of the July 7th date was mentioned. It was felt that is was necessary to have a date for people to focus towards but also that golfing actions can be throughout the Summit. It was noted that a tee time was needed for July 7, 2005.
• The question around a media strategy for the golfing action was raised. Is there a media strategy? If so, what is it?
• Questions around “What the point?” of the golfing action were raised.
• Guerrilla gardening was suggested for golf courses.
• Security concerns were raised over the police perception of hundreds of golfers with clubs and it was felt that this must be tactically thought out as the police could easily “Section 44” golfers and say that clubs constitute a weapon. One suggestion around this was to build giant papier-mâché golf balls that can be pushed around by various golfers along with or in lieu of clubs. Giant cardboard golf clubs could also be built from cardboard tubes.




Sunday 27th February

INSERT HERE SMALL GROUP Meetings


Group I: Mainstream Media Workshop
Meeting Context: The mainstream media working group was an opt-in group held along with parallel sessions which included:
1) Borders support – people who are not allowed in the UK
2) Street Medics
3) Legal / Anti-Repression

• Discussion Topics Brainstormed:
o Monitoring mainstream media/Media watch
o Existing media networks
o Press statements re the Tubingen meeting
o Developing a strategy to deal with media in emergency / worst case scenarios
o Media training/skills sharing workshops
o Rural action/possibility of media blackout and how to counter it

• There is currently a proposal to have a phone number/phone that is passed around with a log to track who/what media has called and what has been said. There is also the potential of having a one-way list to send information to journalists about events.
• Press strategies may be useful to gain logistical concessions from police/government
• A strategy in the past has been for everyone to use to use the same name when dealing with the media. This was done in Evian
• It was noted that all Dissent meetings and action reports are on the web and are thus available to journalists
• PROPOSAL: Work on the Tubingen press releases

DISCUSSION OVER PRESS RELEASE CONTENT
• The initial press statement had the suggestion of placing a focus on the ‘violence’ of the G8 and how we are organising against that; against the violence of Bush and Blair. However it was felt that the anti-war movement focuses a lot on Bush and Blair. There is a need to focus in general on global capitalism and the G8 as an architects or prefects of the system.
• It was suggested that the press statement does not use he word violence
• While the question was raised as to “Why is it necessary or important to issue a press statement?” this question was not debated at great length. It was noted that while Dissent should not spend a lot of time on media issues, there was optimism, that the media would probably carry the press statement from the Tubingen meeting. Thus the press statement was seen as a nice opportunity to tell people what the more radical parts of the [anti-G8] mobilisation are about.

• Suggestions as to the content of the press release included the points:
o Meetings are public
o The G8 is a problem
o The Problems caused by global capitalism far outweigh Dissent
o The number of countries represented at the Tubingen meeting.
• It was noted that there is a need for translations of various press statements.
• It was suggested that it may be useful to put an ‘Editor’s note’ on the press release mentioning sensitivity shown towards Dunblane because of past events however this suggestion was not acted upon.
• It was suggested that the press release may want to include the fact that the people who are organising demonstrations for 2006, 2007 were at Tubingen but it was decide that this was too much information.
• A point was made that when writing a press statement Dissent should try and minimize what is out in a press statement. If you give too much information the media may be selective with what they print.
• It was noted that while email lists up until now have not been used to take decisions, there is a need to use email for decisions
• A decision was made for a small group of 3 people to take the spirit of the points raised in the media discussion and work on the press statement. This group would then feedback the press statement to the group.

Mainstream Media Feedback Session to Group:
Sunday, February 27, 2005 – 3:45pm
Group of about 60 people (20% were women)

• The proposed press statement was read out
• The list of countries was amended and expanded
• Suggestions were made to amend additional actions to the list of activities. The list of additional actions included “No Border” campaigns, as well as information tours by Trapese. It was noted that the press release was envisioned not as the minutes of the entire weekend.
• A debate emerged over various words such as “co-ordination” and “eco-village.” The debate around the words in the press release was evidence of a constant consideration of how the media would interpret various words and phrases. This discussion was consistent but jovial.
• The Press Release was agreed upon and individuals were tasked with translating and distributing it.

**Press Release**Press Release**Press Release**Press Release**Press Release**

International Anti-G8 Meeting in Tuebingen, Germany
(For immediate release)

From 26th-27th February 2005, people involved in anti-capitalist groups and networks from twenty-three different countries, gathered in Tuebingen, Germany to continue planning resistance to the 2005 G8 Summit.

The meeting declared, “This year’s Summit professes to address issues important to us all, amongst them: climate change and poverty. Yet these are issues produced by a system from which the G8 was born and which it attempts to manage. Resistance is the obvious and growing response to the current order. Our aim is not merely to oppose the Summit, but to contribute to the daily struggle to create new worlds.”

A number of action plans were developed over the weekend, reflecting the diversity of the perspectives from which those attending were coming. Concrete action plans included:

• Blockades of the Summit.
• Holding a people’s golf tournament on the lawns of Gleneagles.
• Taking direct action against the causes of climate change.
• Actions for freedom of movements.
• Supporting the blockades of Faslane nuclear submarine base.
• Co-ordinating actions around the world showing solidarity with those resisting the Summit.
• Constructing self-managed, ecologically sustainable convergence spaces.
• Resisting increasingly flexible working conditions being imposed in the UK and around the world.

The meeting also commented, “Whilst the eight most powerful men on Earth retreat behind fences and into militarised zones to pursue their policies of war, growth and destruction, we are attempting to build new spaces, open to everybody, and in which we can demonstrate our legitimate alternatives: of self-management, of non-hierarchical and consensus based decision making and of ecological sustainability.”

Notes to the Editor
1) The 2005 G8 Summit will take place at Gleneagles Hotel in Perthshire, Scotland. Gleneagles is located 70 Kilometres north of Edinburgh.
2) Amongst those attending the meeting were people based in: Scotland, Germany, Macedonia, Greece, Hungary, Luxembourg, Spain, Sweden, Lebanon, Israel, Ireland, Finland, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland, Russia, England, Belarus, the United States, Canada, Austria and Switzerland.
3) The meeting was organised by the Dissent! International Networking Group. For more information about Dissent! see: www.dissent.org.uk
****************************************************************************************


Group II: Medics Meeting Minutes
The following was reported back to the meeting following the medic working group meeting.
• Representatives from Britain, France, Germany and Holland were present.
• All of the basics that had hoped to be covered, were covered.
• The group hope to provide medical care for three weeks from 24th June 2005.
• The group aim to have a medical point at the Convergence Centre, street medics covering the various actions and demonstrations, and a ‘safe clinic’ for longer term care.
• The group will be providing first aid briefings in advance of the action week at the convergence centre.
• The group encourage every affinity group to have a first aider, and to learn a bit about how to prevent trauma and to plan a proper debrief, recovery and rest time for when you get home.

Leaflets were made available to those wanting more information.


Group III: Precarity and the “Working Group Against Work”
At the beginning of the meeting, the “Working Group against Work” ( dissentagainstwork@yahoo.co.uk;  http://lists.activix.org/mailman/listinfo/resistg8-wgaw ) and their action planned on 4th of July (Monday) was presented. The group emerged out of talks around precarious conditions of work and life and resistance to them and want to bring this discussion into the protest against the G8. On the 4th of July, they propose a mobile party in central Edinburgh that will “visit” places like job centres, bailiffs, agencies involved in the New Deal and the benefit regime, companies exploiting casual and migrant labour and end up in a shopping area. They also plan actions in Brighton and Bristol to mark the employment ministers’ summit.

There are also other actions the group though about during the Anti-G8 protests which were discussed in the Working Group like piquetero-style roadblocks and blockades, free shops, occupations and activities of mass self-reduction. Some of these actions have never been tried before in the UK and the Working group was sceptical whether the days around the G8 were the right time to do them for the first time because the atmosphere will probably be very tense.

The same problem would probably occur with other forms of actions we discussed like YoMango-Dinners (“organised food” which is distributed in form of a big dinner for everyone) or “for-free”-actions as done in Germany – demanding and actively seeking free entrance to museums, swimming pools and public transport.

We were also discussing that any action around this theme of precarity should try to involve the people who are most concerned like people working in call centres or migrants. We came to the conclusion that although it is difficult it should be tried to do actions like the ones described above with an outreach-attitude to people working and living under precarious conditions- whose numbers grow every day! It’s very important to include the idea of resistance against those conditions with mass actions that are fun and colourful because this is where one of the outcomes of G8 politics becomes visible in everyday life.


Group IV: Hill Walking meeting at the Tuebingen Gathering
Introduction
A celebration of the right to roam - walking in the Ochii hills
and weekly walks, land access and maps?.
Call for Beacons of Dissent on Tuesday. Also Crazy Golfers? may join from the city.
Tours of local pubs planned.
Note: We are facilitating but not organising walks. But this is not a DIY action - we believe in collective action.
There is a route over the hills to Gleneagles. This may prove to be the best way to Gleneagles.
Highest hills are about 700 metres. (note this has been corrected from raw minutes as was given incorrectly in meeting sorry)
Dollar to Glendevon is from 2 and a half to 6 hour walk. Allow 1 day to get across the hills. Times to be calculated in preparatory walks.
The A9 cuts the hills off from Gleneagles.
Tired walkers may want to Sleep-in or Sit-in at the A9
Northern approach – Aberdeen and Golfing groups also looking at routes from the north. river, detours and the road from Perth: there is a group of walkers plotting a route from Perth.
StarMarch? : 5 or 6 routes from different directions meeting up in the middle.
Is the blockade on 6th July only?
How is cycling on/in the hills? Roads, tracks and some paths are fine, hills to be tested.
Beacons
Walkers can go on and off road. Compass and map reading can be practised anywhere.
Discussion of possible police operation
Helicopters: can also move shipping containers for road blocks/ temp holding people into positions. Much harder for police to block hill walking. No rights of way: right to roam without taking up residence.
There is a police force boundary in the Ochil Hills, it is unsure what this means in practice though.
Police horses not bred or trained to go into hills.
Police dogs are expected. Maybe they will also put the English police in the hills!
Policing the hills is organisational problem for them. Maybe soldiers in police uniforms at these locations.
Closer to the time police will announce their plans.
We will establish lines of communication closer to the time. The more people come on walks before hand, the more we can practice and prepare the hills before the police operation gets into effect.
There maybe legal restrictions being setup, eg trespass, so again we stress: we are not organising an event: we are simply walking in the hills and inviting others to join us. We will combine with other walkers and protesters from the north and all around.
From past experience, it is suggested that the police will only secure the highway and allow the hill walking to go on, and just observe.
The Silver group plan to stay in the hills and look down on the G8 and laugh at them. Others are invited to join.
Experience in Ireland showed that instead of onroad, the fields were very difficult to police and provided opportunities for unexpected road blocks.
Gleneagles golf course is massive. The north approach features a river and the southern approach has the hills. Both approaches would disrupt the conference.
Maybe they will just fence off the whole thing – or station police all round it. Or just police all the roads. The golf course is very difficult to police, even the front door will be very difficult to manage.
Many examples like Davos in Swizerland where 20,0000 police and army chased protesters. Some protesters tried to ski over the much higher hills, but there were just too many police.
Gleneagles includes a rifle range on north side for sport and there is also a military range away to the south west. They must cease fire if they know that there are other people in the area.
General Notes
Weather is changeable – bring waterproofs, warm clothes,
9.45 sunset : not much dark but bring a torch.
Start camping and outdoor life now! wherever you are!
We will be in touch with the blockades to the north and other directions, but will focus on hill walking. And link with other groups for mobilising.
Bring tents and supplies for sustaining oneself.
We will provide the practical information.
It is believed large amounts of people can camp in the Ochils; need to check out more.
Right to roam without impeding lawful activity
Also except when royalty is in residence with controversial change in law - maybe the Queen will be coming to the G8 meeting.
Is legal to roam on the Gleneagles golf course normally.
Please contact  silver@j12.org with any further questions.


Final Plenary: Feedback from Small Group Meetings

Anti Repression Meeting
• There is anti repression network in Europe.
• The legal group is trying to organize legal observers.
• Help is needed with translations.
• There should be an international call of local solidarity actions during the G8- on Saturday 9th of July.
• Every group who will be involved and fundraises should try to give 10% towards anti repression funds.
• There will be two minibuses dedicated to picking people up who have been arrested. There should also be very good communication between legal team and arrestees.


Border Actions
Two border camps are planned – one in France and one in Ireland. This will be co-ordinated through a mailing list. On the 3rd of July there will be an action co-ordinated by the no Border network. It will be a day called make borders history and there is a planned action at a nearby detention centre. The French people will try to co-ordinate with people in Calais to organise a demo and solidarity for people who cannot pass the border.
A call to action is being made


Mainstream Media
A press statement was produced to be sent out immediately after the meeting. There is a mainstream media group which aims to co-ordinate both national and international media.
There is an email list is
 media_strategy_against_g8@lists.riseup.net


Medics
Medics will be available for three weeks starting on the 24th of June. At the meeting there were medics from France, Britain, Germany, Switzerland. There will be a medical point at the convergence centres, streets medics and a safe clinic for longer-term care. Everyone is encouraged everyone have a first aider in his or her affinity group and learn a bit about how to prevent trauma.
There are leaflets available and information on the website for people that want to be involved.


Indymedia Centre
Indymedia will be covering Dissent! Actions, Faslane blockades and Make Poverty History demonstrations.
As well as covering the actions Indymedia wants to cover the issues behind the protests and also the groups coming to the protests. There will be several different media places in Scotland. There are two websites- Scotland Indymedia and UK indymedia. There is an email list for planning indymedia work around the G8 Scotland.
Indymedia will be in contact with the legal and medical teams. As many people as possible are encouraged to participate.


Trauma
• This workshop looked at ways to provide mental support to people who are stressed out by police attacks or different situations.
• There is a trauma website under construction.
• There is an email list for people who want to take part in the trauma support. There will be workshops at the festival of dissent and other locations to train people.
• There will be space at the convergence centre for people to go where there can be counseling.
• The Trauma group is looking for ways to link up different countries and to find sympathetic therapists and counselors also during the G8 summit.


TRAPESE
An e-mail list has been set up to support groups doing info-tours, skill share and exchange information. www.trapese.org will be used to put downloadable materials on.

There will an info tour in Ireland, Austria, Germany, and Switzerland in April and May.

The email list for co-ordination and information dissemination is
 Educatetheg8@lists.riseup.net


Blockades
The final decisions on actual actions and routes will probably be fairly last minute. However there is agreement that there will be different styles of action that reflect the diversity of tactics.
• An info pack will be produced with maps etc.
• There will be a spokescouncil meeting
• There will a spokescouncils at the convergence centre the nearest to Gleneagles to discuss the different blockades. The final meeting to co-ordinate the blockades will be on Monday 3rd of July
• The communication will be done by text messaging systems and radios.


Translating
A new translation list has been set up for translators and texts to be co-ordinated. It is  translate2005-subscribe@lists.riseup.net


Future Meetings
It was agreed that a future meeting was needed. Proposals are for Southern Europe, Italy or Greece. Glasgow has agreed to host the meeting should another venue not be found.
People were asked to subscribe to the International Email List:  international-g82005-subscribe@lists.riseup.net


Final Session: Evaluation of the Weekend
Good:
Made decisions; the wonderful hosts in Tuebingen; the translation; the facilitation; meeting nice people and making friends; the presentations – in terms of being able to see the feedback; pre-organisation was good; the meetings didn’t run TOO late; presentations – in terms of giving people information; the hand signals worked well in terms of giving constant feedback; the structure of the meeting was good – in terms of having a plenary with feedback from the other meetings; although people wanted to be efficient, the more abstract theoretical discussions were also appreciated.

Bad:
Energy got low in terms of translation and people speaking too much and at the same time towards the end of the weekend – perhaps because people were tired; unrealistic timetables; low energy in Friday night meeting; it is left too unclear who is doing what after the meeting and how decisions and discussions will be followed up upon; people from the UK spoke too much, they should sometimes just shut up and not say anything; it was tiring for people having to listen to English as a second language for up to 10 hours a day; sometimes the discussions were a little too abstract;

Ideas for the future:
Info session on Saturday morning could’ve been more concise (people could’ve prepared themselves if texts had been available); perhaps it would be good to start the meeting on the Friday at mid-day the next time so that we could have more breaks; would be good to have good maps of the area where the meeting is so people can avoid police controls; name badges for the next meeting; people shouldn’t be afraid to talk in their native languages and be translated if necessary; there should be positive discrimination for those who haven’t spoken in meetings – i.e. they should jump to the front of the queue; should maybe restrict the time that people speak, for example, to one minute; there should be a greater consciousness of those with less experience – for example, people shouldn’t presume everyone understands the hand signals that are used.

Announcements were also made about upcoming events:
4th March-G8 counter climate summit
26th March- International Mobilising meeting – London
27th March- International Mobilising meeting – Leeds
26th-27th-Working groups Dissent! Meeting

10-11th March- G8 Employment ministers meeting
15-15th March- G8 energy round table
17-18th March- Enivronment ministers meeting
6-10th April- Festival of Dissent!
20th April- German Speakers networking meeting (Mannheim)
5th-7th May- German Speakersmeeting- Hamburg
1st week of June- Training for convergence centres
28th June- Luxembourg EU summit ministers meeting
16th-17th June-G8 Justice ministers meeting Sheffield
10th-11th- June –G8 Finance ministers meeting.

April-May- Info tour through Austria, Germany, Switzerland
April/May-Trapese info tour in Ireland and Britain

**************************************************************
Additionally


A) Minutes of the German-language meeting (in German)

G8-2005 Vorbereitungstreffen in Tübingen, 26.-27. Februar

Protokoll zum deutschsprachigem Vernetzungstreffen am 27. Februar

Gruppen und ihre Beiträge / Aktionen:

• Göttingen: Material, Veranstaltungen
• Heidelberg/Mannheim: Küche, G8-Reader (s. Wiki -> infos)
• Bayern: in München mal sehen, was das läuft
• Thurn: Fahrradtour bs nach Schottland
• Luzern: Infoveranstaltungen
• Hanau/Rhein-Main: Mobilisierungsveranstaltungen
• Bremen: noch eine zweite Infoveranstaltung
• Greifswald: Infoveranstaltung
• Rantenplan: Mobilisierung auf dem Festival Fusion (22. -26. Juni) und dabei auch Fundraising
• Hamburg: vorhandenes Interesse muss in Mobilisierung umgewandelt werden
• Ruhrgebiet: Infoveranstaltung, mit Samba-Band zur G8, Übersetzung
• Köln: Infotreffen, Soliparty (Übersetzung vom Legalreader)
• Münster: Info-CD, Thematisierung von 'Freedom of Movement' während der G8
• Berlin: Poster, Aufkleber, Soli-CD, Infoveranstaltungen, Offene Treffen einmal im Monat, Infotour (s. Extra Protokoll zur Infotour), Vernetzung, Soli-Party, Inhaltliche Veranstaltungsreihe im Mai

Material/Aktionen fürs Camp und für die Anfahrt:

• Heidelberg:Küche (50-60 Leute), 2 Vans, Partyzelte
• Es gibt eine englische Liste zum Material (s. Dissent Seite), Nicht über Deutsche Liste!!
• Auf der deutschen Seite unter wiki gibt es unter 'Reiseinfos' Platz Vorschläge, Tipps und MfGs zu sammeln.

Infotour (s. extra Protokoll):

• Soll es einen Referentenpool geben, oder eine feste Crew?
• Verschiedene Zonen, die von autonomen Infotourgruppen bereist werden
• Austausch zwischen den Gruppen wird gefordert
• Roadshow à la Trapese gibt es wegen Zeitmangels wahrscheinlich nicht, soll sich aber für die Mobilisierung für die G8 2007 in Deutschland vorgemerkt werden.
• Orte, die angekündigt wurden, benötigen einen Ansprechpartner vor Ort
• Es gibt allgemeines Interesse am Infomaterial der Berliner

Werbematerial:

• Plakate müssen geklebt werden, auch in umliegenden Städten, die nicht in Tübingen mit Plakaten versorgt wurden
• Die Soli-CD enthält eine PDF Datei mit Cover und soll zum Fundraising verwendet werden
• Newsletter (Nr. 1 steht schon) soll einmal im Monat erscheinen und kurz vor dem Gipfel (vielleicht schon ab Mai) alle zwei Wochen. Es wurde dazu ausgerufen, dass Artikel auch aus anderen Städten zugesandt werden, damit das Projekt nicht zu einem der Berliner alleine wird.

2007, BUKO:

• Der nächste BUKO-Kongress wird vom 5. - 8. Mai in Hamburg stattfinden. Es wurde angedacht in dessen Rahmen mit der Diskussion und Vorbereitung für die G8 2007 in Heiligendamm zu beginnen.
• Als Problem wurden die Teilnahmegebühren gesehen, die aber nicht verpflichtend sind.
• Berlin macht einen Aufruf.

Kontaktlisten, Websites:

• deutschsprachige Seite: de.indymedia.org.uk
• jeder kann was auf die Seite stellen
• Reiseinformationen werden im Wiki gesammelt
• Kontaktadresse:  german-g82005@riseup.net
• Mailingliste für aktive Mitarbeit:  http://lists.kommunikationssystem.de/mailman/listinfo/g8resist2005

Nächstes Treffen:

• Mannheim hat angeboten vor dem schottischen Gipfel noch ein deutsches Vernetzungstreffen zu veranstalten.
• Termin muss noch abgestimmt werden. Als Vorschlag steht die Zeit um den 20. April im Raum
• Es besteht ein Angebot an Tagungsräumen, zudem wird u.U. eine Soli-Party veranstaltet werden.
• Ohne Soli-Party werden auf jedenfall bis zu 70 Leute, mit 30 Leute untergebracht werden können, sowie u.U. 20-30 außerhalb

Sonstiges:

• Österreich muß eingebunden werden!
• Es wurde zu einer internen Vernetzung aufgerufen.


B) International Networking Meeting Minutes

Brainstormed Discussion Topics
1. International Networking meeting location: London, Leeds or Brighton?
2. Hosting another international meeting?
3. The future of Info Tours
4. How to feedback to Dissent UK and Groups in Germany
5. How to integrate groups into the network
6. How to respond to parallel requests for Dissent networks in other countries

1. International Networking meeting location: London, Leeds or Brighton?
 The planning for a proposed International Networking meeting in London on March 26th is already underway.
 There was concern that there may be some over lap with what takes place in Leeds and what takes place in London
 Some understood the London meeting to be conditional
 Leeds will be hosting a feedback session on the meetings in Germany the same weekend as the London meeting.
 It was recognised that these may be different types of meetings.

Proposal:
In order to limit confusion and overlap, it was suggested that the London international networking meeting take place on March 26th while International networking issues are dealt with on march 27th in Leeds.

It was further proposed that there be clear coordination in advance of both meetings between those in London and Leeds regarding the agendas for both meetings and, in the case of London, informing Leeds what transpired in London so this information may be incorporated into the meeting.

Consensus was reached on this proposal

2. Hosting another International meeting?
 It seems that there have been requests for a future international networking meeting in a similar fashion to the one held in Germany.
 Questions were raised as to who would host it and when.
 May was suggested as a potential time for the next meeting, in Europe and most likely in southern Europe.
 It was noted that in addition to holding another international meeting, a clear invitation to all internationals should be made to come to all future Dissent gatherings as well as the Festival of Dissent.

Proposal:
A proposal was made that the possibility of hosting another International meeting should be posed back to the larger Tubingen gathering. Further, the gathering should also be asked for input as to whether the next meeting should be in Scotland or in Europe – potentially Italy.

Consensus was reached on this proposal

3. The future of Info Tours
 It was acknowledged that there are currently limited resources both in people and in money for Info Tours. However, the importance of the Road Show was stressed.
 A suggestion was made that Info Tours should focus on places where Dissent UK does not yet have any connections.
 A suggestion was made to get as much international material as possible on to the website as it was felt that an increase in information may decrease the amount of requests for Info Tours. The information could take the form of a Power Point presentation and someone did volunteer to begin putting together a multimedia presentation for use by international groups.
 Request for information have focused on networking tours, building relationships and groups are asking how their actions may fit into a wider network.
 There are currently Info Tour requests from: Ireland, Spain, Sweden and the Netherlands.
 It was noted that there are the potential for Information/Workshops in Finland.
 With respect to how to deal with Info Tour request and in light of the strain on resources, it was decided to deal with Info Tour requests on a case by case basis. Where possible it is hoped that the host group will cover at least some of the expenses of the Info Tour. However, if the requesting group could not cover expenses, this would not necessarily mean that an Info Tour would not happen.
 Japanese translation is available and will be done for major Dissent documents.
 The production and distribution of an Info CD, possibly using Power Point presentations, and including maps and other resources was discussed. It could serve as a kind of “electronic Dissent! delegate”.

4. How to feedback to Dissent UK and Groups in Germany
 Minutes can be a one source of feedback
 Feedback will be given in Leeds and Edinburgh
 If people have any additional questions regarding feedback they should contact the international networking group.

5. How to integrate groups into the network?
 There was a desire expressed not to replicate all Dissent groups at both local and international levels.
 It was felt that various groups should be encouraged to make their own international links where possible although it was recognised that the Dissent International UK group is often the first point of contact.
 Working groups should develop wish lists of supplies needed.
 Proposal for a working lists of documents before Leeds of various publications/research documents in the pipeline that can be placed on the Web.

6. How to respond to parallel requests for Dissent networks in other countries
 It was pointed out that there is already a German precedent for the use of the Dissent name.
 It was agreed that if people wish to call themselves Dissent, they should be empowered to do so and this is a decision they must make on their own.
 If people are looking for assistance, they should be encouraged to come to the Festival of Dissent.

asfa
- e-mail: info-g82005@riseup.net
- Homepage: http://www.dissent.org.uk

Comments

Hide the following 10 comments

Scottish people

15.03.2005 12:41

"Scottish people ... become involved in political issues if they believe they are right"

what is that supposed to mean? it's a kind of racism.

- -


Thanks!

15.03.2005 12:54

Thanks foe the long notes - interesting to see so much being discussed. Onwards!

Pete


German Language Correction

15.03.2005 13:09

From the german language section:

> Kontaktlisten, Websites:
>
> · deutschsprachige Seite: de.indymedia.org.uk
> · jeder kann was auf die Seite stellen...

Correction:

"de.indymedia.org.uk" should read:
 http://de.dissent.org.uk

spot the mistake!


Scottish people - racist? er wot?

15.03.2005 13:23

"Scottish people ... become involved in political issues if they believe they are right"

I think you'll find that the person's saying that there have been mass movements like the anti-poll tax thing in scotland. It's also just para-phrasing note taking.

It also says scotland is NOT a colony of england or uk or whatever.

C'mon, this is not racist. As for 'reserved', well it's in the similar way to how english people can seem to visitors from abroad, or people in london to visitors, etc etc

And it was said by a scottish person.

See you in scotland.

welsh dude


why was it held in germany?

15.03.2005 15:25

why was a conference held about the G8 summit which is due in scotland held in germany?

also your comments on "G8alternative " were very short and inadequate. it would have been more useful to make constructive critism rather than say" G8 is a swp front" end of story. one must remember that people say that the STWC is also a "swp front" . it is much more compliated than that and it is frustrating when people are dismissive of real movements. your arguements need to be a bit more sophisticated than that (please).

the fact is, like STWC, the G8alternative is supported by many real groups including the Scottish Socialist Party which does actually represent people in scotalnd. it is very likely, whether u like it or not that G8 alternative will mobilise a hell of alot of people to counter the G8 summit, you cannot write all of these people off.

red letter


Why should it not be in Germany then?

15.03.2005 16:51

There are lots of people from across Europe and further afield mobilising against the G8, both to do stuff where they live and to come to Scotland, and Germany is a fairly central location within Europe for a meeting. Whats wrong with that exactly? There are regular Dissent meetings in Scotland and other places in Britain that people are very welcome to come to, and which are in no way less important than the meeting in Tuebingen...And I don't think anybody's "writing off" the people who might come to events put on by G8 Alternatives, just pointing out that the political perspective of Dissent is different to that of G8 Alternatives, which is in turn different to Make Poverty History. Disagreeing with the organisers of an event isn't the same thing as assuming that everybody who attends it shares the organisers' approach, beliefs or whatever. In fact I'd imagine there'll be lots of attempts by people organising different events to go to "each others" events to publicise their own actions etc, and why not?

w


re G8Alternatives

15.03.2005 20:04

At the meeting it was stressed that this is a major mobilisation within scotland, also that it has SSP people and some trade unions behind it. If you look above the notes also say
"Scottish CND, free party people and the Green Party also make up G8 Alternatives" - and that's certainly not trying to hide any diversity. chill out.

all to scotland!


horizontals easily fooled?

16.03.2005 16:22

'It is important to note that the SWP is different from the SSP (The Scottish socialist party who are a respected Scottish political party).'

Mm hm, you really believe that do you? Then explain why:

- 'Socialist Worker' always backs the SSP in elections
- Leading SWP members in Scotland are known also to be members of the SSP, in some cases even candidates
- The SSP includes a 'Socialist Worker Platform' - used to be a link on their website, recently hurriedly taken down, interestingly...

Spooky coincidences? Maybe. Or maybe just maybe the SSP is just another (slightly more subtle) SWP front.

whistleblower


Whistleblower

16.03.2005 22:21

Poor whistleblower..

In Scotland we have this weird thing called Socialist Unity, all of the left-wing groups are members of the same party, the SSP. So Militant, the SWP, the ISM, and everyone else are part of the project to build a credible force to the left of labour.

We've done pretty well, it's amazing what you can do if you all work together rather then engaging in sectarian pount scoring.

Well done though, I'm amazed that you manged to get the whole set-up so entirely wrong when it is all a matter of public record.

Sonic


yes. why germany?????

17.03.2005 10:22



if you study the minutes you will see alot of discussion is dominated by tactics and logistics support. e.g you need help looking for appropiate site for a convergence centre,squatting, and to gain support from govt with this. then questions of electricity, lighting,catering ,marques,local transport, etc arise.

all of these are things can be only sorted out by local people or people who have knowledge of the area, not by somebody living in germany. what is the point of talking about these things in germany?

also questions arise about media/press ,blockages ,british trepass laws, police tatics etc

my main point is that when people come to the G8 summit from abroad , they will be depending by and large on the britsih contingency to sort all of these things out for them. it would have made more sense therefore to have discussions about all of these matters in scotland as these problems will eventually be sorted out by scottish/british people not somebody living in poland.the mistake i feel which was made by holding an event in germany to discuss these matters is that local people with specialised knowledge were denied the opportunity to participate in such organisation. unless of course Dissent is a elitists grouping and is happy to discuss such matters with themselves and nobody else?

red letter