Dear Friends.

This is really abstract nonsense - especially when the war in Iraq is currently being waged by 'our' government in our name.

What are you marching about - against wars by other governments, or even guerilla movements? That is actually less radical than the fecking 'Ess double yew peee'. You actually water down the content of our march.

SO DONT LET 'OUR' GOVT. OFF THE HOOK!

Its easy for any old liberal / nu-labour type to be against the current terrible wars in Africa, etc....but it is taking a stand against what 'your' govt. is doing in your name that is harder!

This is surprisingly ill thought out. I used to have loads of respect for peace news...
I can see your rationale...you want to be more radical than 'stop the war', but this is a mistake.

In the end you are just digging out your tired old pacifist cliches, that you learned years ago, without thinking about the context. You just want to promote 'your brand', and have thought this stuff up!

I'm not marching on the 19th against the peasant insurgency in Nepal. I'm not protesting against the Intifada. I'm protesting precisely against what the western global imperial power structure - the people with the most power and responsibility - are doing.

So wherever your 'contingent' is - I'm afraid I'm gonna try and get AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE!

SEE YA!

FIGHT THE POWER!

Women in Black know nothing of this and are very suspicious of it

This is very suspicious, I contacted people at D10 today and they know nothing about it. No contact or support is being offered by them, it looks as though somebody is attempting to waste peoples time and energy, again !

Apologies if Annie Nelligan hasn't heard about Women in Black london's initiative to call for a women's bloc to join the "against all wars" part of the march in London on 19th. This was agreed by London Women in Black in a meeting on 26 February, and has been circulated around the London Wib email list. Information leaflets were also given out at the WiB international women's day vigil on 8 March. However, we haven't circulated it round the WiB-UK list, so I'll do that tonight.

Sian
(I'm one of the women who manages the wibinfo list)

Peace News:
 http://www.peacenews.info/

Member of "Ink" collective:
 http://www.ink.uk.com/

Article about this demo on PN:
 http://www.peacenews.info/news/article/314

The stuff about WIB sounds like a communications fuck-up, not a conspiracy.

No, I dont think this is a 'conspiracy' or some sinister 'spook' creation. It is clearly what it says, a few people nostalgic for the "old-skool peace and antimilitarist scene".

And that's exactly my criticism!

Peace News has always had the slogan "Against All Wars". Fair enough, thats their particular traditional pacifist politics.

I have read various grumbles in Peace News / Nonviolent Action against the mass movemnt against the Iraq War....saying things along the lines of "most of these people are not against all wars - they are only against this particular war, we need a traditional pacifist movement". I.e - a desire for a smaller, more ideologically pure movement. In my opinion this is a particular form of muddleheaded pacifist sectarianism.

I don't like the thrust of the initial posting. I disagree with its criticism of those "against the war on Iraq in isolation because it represents US imperialism". I think the most urgent task IS to oppose the wars of the most powerful military/corporate complex on earth - wars conducted in our name. This should not be watered down by trying to make it in to an abstract call against all war.

Furthermore, the added criticism of the anti-imperialist motivations of other marchers implies that by joining the "Against All Wars" block one is also against the resistance of the oppressed unless it is nonviolent. It equates the violence of the oppressed with the violence of the oppressor. Sorry, but I think this is a mistake.

You hail or interpelate me with your inclusive call - "CALL TO ALL ANTI-MILITARISTS..........FEMINISTS, ECO(NONVIOLENT!)WARRIORS, RADICAL QUEERS, ANTI-CAPS ETC ETC..." Yes, I am also many of these things. But you do not speak for me.

This stance, if adopted, would actually make our movement both less radical AND smaller. Not cool!

Luv
Barry
XXX

Getting a bit concerned how much IndyMedia seems to be being used lately for spreading false rumours and disinformation and whipping up pointless and bitter arguments.

Look at the context: the neo-liberal/neo-con alliance are pushing ahead with their plan for global control of resources through new shiny 'humanitarian' imperialism, backed up with a thorough crackdown on all opposition or resistance at home through the War on Terror, detention without trial and restrictions on the right to protest.

What stands in their way? More than anything else, the social forces who came together in the anti-war protests. A strong and diverse movement with the potential to offer serious resistance.

So what to do? The favourite tactic of the ruling class: divide-and-rule. Set people against each other on grounds of ideology, religion, anything.. just so long as we're busy fighting each other the rulers can carry on with their agenda.

We need to keep eyes on the big picture. I know calls for unity are always suspect as attempts to stifle debate, but to be honest I think recently we've seen debate and fractiousness taken to such an extreme it's stifling effective action (ESF anyone?)

We need to remember who has the real power and who are the main enemies. Not pretend agreement, but think about time and place and ways to express disagreement (1) with mutual respect and (2) in such a way as it doesn't screw up united action.

Let's not squabble over detail while the house burns down!

If there's any 'conspiracy' at all, it's a person or persons taking it upon themselves to rubbish legitimate posts on IndyMedia.

Like saying this announcement is 'oh so suspicious'...

Well hardly...

The anti-war march is meeting up at hyde park anyway... so even if this was a fake anouncement - or a suspicious announcement - or an attempt to waste peoples time - it wouldn't! It certainly would not waste any time for people (who will be going to the anti-war demo anyway) to check and see if there's anyone over the road from the park - duh! the meet up point is just over the road for heavens sake!

No, I think these comments might be just another example of someone trying to spread confusion and uncertainty (though for sure it might just be a communications fuckup).

Personally I for one will see you there cos I'll be going.

But it's a funny old game, this attempt to rubbish so many posts on IndyMedia - but it's one which some people clearly enjoy playing. Calling events and campaigns into question is an old police / security services tactic to spread mistrust etc etc.

In recent cases on indymedia it's clear that the aim is to both cause confusions around specific campaigns and also perhaps to try and make people think indymedia is not a 100% reliable source of activist news (shock horror !?)

The answers are simple.

IndyMedia, like any media is not 100% realiable, and as any IndyMedia reader would no doubt tell you - you should never believe everything you read in any media! :-)

Anyway, here it's pretty clear the info is up on peace news and WIB say they will post out to their list.

If anyone only relies only on IndyMedia for information then they need to get out and about a bit more :-) Info flows through email lists and personal face to face meetings. And like this example info is often on other websites to provide corroboration.

Luckily i think folks on IndyMedia aint that stupid to be taken in by the rubbishing of posts like this :-)

And if there's any lesson in here it's not to rely on sitting behind computer screens too much - get out there!

See ya on saturday!

ps as for the the arguements back and forth all the time on IndyMedia, well too many people with too much time on their hands. IndyMedia ireland has got a good standard of discussion and debate by the way, check the site out at  http://www.indymedia.ie

...just thought I'd mention that I know Barry, he's not trying to rubbish the post for any spurious reason, it's just a genuine critique of that particular brand of all-out pacifism. for what it's worth. he's also active in trying to get people down to london. peace out.

I wasn't on about barry's posts though, yep like you said that's a comment on the political postition of the 'all wars' angle.

I was talking here about the Women in Black and D10 related posts, and also about posts on other campaigns and events.