Kidnapping and beheading westerners including aid workers. Bombing UN and Red Cross bases! How can you ever support such people? Come on Indymedia you know better than that. If you don't agree with the war then stay neutral. How about adopting the statement; "neither the US/British coalition nor the so called Iraqi resistance"! At least you would then not be hypocrits for supportting war by one side while opposing war by the other!

What would you do if your home, town, and country were invaded by another country? Would you resist?

staying neutral?

there are times whe it comes up to choose

Michael,

You have addressed your comment to 'Indymedia' as though indymedia is a person or an editorial board.

Check out the editorial guidelines, about, and mission statement sections under the site banner.

imdymedia is an open posting system - unless a post conflicts with it's general principles then it is not hidden by moderators (and no posts are erased, only moved off the Newswire - they remain publicly accessible).

As for the item you replied to - your post seems a hysterical response. You can tally up each sides' atrocities all day long, but that the war is over mineral resources and not about improving the lives of ordinary Iraqis is not seriously disputed.

Iraq was liberated not invaded. On the contrary it was the Saddam regime which was behaving like an occupying force in Iraq, torturing and killing anyone who opposed or criticesed the regime. The Iraqi people are much better off now than they were under Saddams' brutal totalitarian rule!

God save us all if this is liberation.

Surely not even the most insane apologists of Bush, Blair and the rest of the new world establishment can twist events like the flattening of Fallujah as an act of liberation. Not to mention the many other attrocities commited daily by these evil occupiers intent on plundering Iraq.

If Iraq was truely liberated then you must ask yourself a series of serious questions.

1) Why did the US and UK have to falsify information to start the invasion?

2) If Weapons of Mass Destruction did exist in Iraq before the war, then why did the US and UK continue to keep in place the sanctions regime that slaughtered over one-million Iraq children under the age of five and why did Saddam Hussain not use these weapons to defend himself?

3) Why did some of the aid workers, which you mention live in Iraq through out some of the worst periods in Iraqs history and how come they were never attacked by either the Iraqi people or Saddam Hussain?

4) Why are the US and UK holding elections, which under international law are not legitimate or even lawful and by rights the entire Iraqi population can vote but that "new government" should not even be recognised if law is truely binding.

This in itself raises more questions:

5) Why has the USA changed parts of Iraqs constitution, changes that now allow British and American Citizens, who have not been in the country for over thirty years and more, the right to stand and hold posts in the parliament in Iraq and still carry their British and US passports?

6) If the US really had liberated Iraq, then why did they use Depleted Uranium in the 2003 invasion, a weapon that the UN itself declared in 1997 a "Weapon of indiscriminate and mass destruction" and why are the USA using chemical weapons against Iraqi civilians in areas like Fallujah??

7) Ask yourself this question: If you are Iraqi, living in Iraq, resisting an occupying force - does this make you a terrorist?? According to the United Nations, armed resistance to remove such a presence is perfectly legitimate and you will find that the groups who kidnapped and killed people like Kenneth Bigley and Margaret Hassan were actually not even Iraqi to begin with.

I really think one should have a choice, I mean you can't just go about liberating people without ......

Actually, your little cartoon goes to prove two things, that A you are actually stupid with only half the facts in your head and B the comic does not explain what has been going on for over a decade in Iraq.

A little lesson in history will tell you that after the Gulf War of 1991, the United Nations imposed sanctions on Iraq, which have killed over one million children under the age of five.

The sanctions regime, prevented items like Tampons, bleach and pencils from enterring into Iraq. This sanctions committee was based, not in Baghdad, but in NEW YORK!! and it was called Sanctions Committee 661.

If you recall, and remember that after the eighties there was a decade called the ninties, which reduced Iraqs infrastructure to the stone age. Iraq was not allowed to purchase items like cancer fighting drugs, tablets to prevent and control heart disease, this was done, not by Saddam Hussain but by the United Nations in the USA who said that such items were "dual use" and could be used in making a bomb.

UN Arms inspectors over that era even said as early as 1997, that "from a quantative stand point Iraq had been disarmed". All you have to do is look at the fact that during the nineties, Saddam never launched a military attack on Britain, America, Kuwait, Jordan or even Iran. Where were the attacks on the Kurds or the Marsh Arabs?

So yes, Bush and Blair may have kept receipts but neither the UN, USA or UK has yet been able to find these Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and also you cannot avoid the fact that if Saddam had got them, then he would have used them to defend himself, proof that he would??? Just look at what he used in the war against Iran, in that era called the eighties, you know that one where the US and UK armed Saddam and stayed silent over Halabja, only to grant more sales to Iraq one month after the massacre of the Kurds.

Liberated? Are Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet and Stingray made by the same makers? During the sixties folks, most high tech puppet shows were.

Critise America and Britain all you like but the fact remains that the Iraqi people are thankful that Saddams' regime has gone and will not be coming back. They are also thankful that they will be able to vote in free and fair elections in January. They are also thankful that there country is being rebuilt after decades of neglect by the Saddam regime. They are also thankful that they now have a proper proffesional police force and army trained to high western standards which is now there to protect them not oppress them.

But in your minds America and Britain can do no right. Maybe you should cast your minds back to the liberation of Europe during D-day in 1944 and try to imagine what would have happened then if America and Britain had decided not to get involved.

Michael seems to be an educated chap , that's a problem that a lot of middle class folks can't seem to deal up with.
History is written by "the winners" and most of it is crap, although we are not allowed to talk about certain issues
or even mention them. (so I won't) But I think it's permitted to mention that Mr Prescott Bush and his gang financed for example I G Farben (BASF HOECHST and jolly old BAYER) and he probably didn't keep the reciepts either.
I:G FARBEN ran some pretty disgusting concentration camps and carried out a series of in humane experiments .
see www.cbgnetwork.org it's well documented .
After the WAR most of the dodgiest Nazis went to work for the CIA and the rest were helped to safe havens in South America by the NAzi (catholic) Church. The folks that founded the EU were up for it under Hitler the only difference would have been Hollywood and John Wayne missing out on a bumper bonanza of WAR MOVIES like D DAY and all that Hoo HAA

By za vay vee must sank zee Americans for completely flatening Bankfurt while leaving the I.G Farben building
standing , the only building in the whole city except for the Rockefeller villa of course ..

At the moment the same gang or their descendants have just finished with Iraq and are getting ready for Iran
while at the same time keeping an option open on Ukraine and fucking up most of the rest of the world ..

Iraq was better off under Saddam.



Saddam did not order his troops to have anal sex with captives and take pictures.

Saddam did not cause the deaths of 2.8 million Iraqis and did not give excuses for his behaviour.

Saddam Tortured just like America, he murdered just like America and he invaded Kuwait just like America invaded Iraq, to my eyes neither is worthy of support.

However at least Saddam was Iraqi, it was his country and he was its ruler, therefore it is Iraqis who should change regimes not America.

Before the invasion America trained exiled Iraqis to stand in the planned election, now Iraqis have American/Iraqis to vote in as leaders in a fixed election while under US occupation,

Fight oppression, Democracy is a Christian ideology this is a crusade, nothing more

Where is the years of neglect by Saddam in Iraq, this is a question to people like Michael.

There is no neglect by Sddam because under the UN Sanctions, Iraq could not purchase the right equipment to preserve the history of areas like Babylon etc and if you look at what Iraq was trying to do with the sanctions in place, no body on this planet could say that it was neglect. It was sanctions that made cleaners in hospitals mop the floor with parafin and not bleach, not Saddam.

The neglect of Iraq, has not been induced by Saddam but by the United Nations. This is not pro or anti saddam rhetoric but simply FACT and all you have to do is go around the internet and look in books and the evidence is there!!

Also, if the Iraqi people are so happy with the US being in Iraq, then why are so many US troops being killed, why have three leading officials for the elections already been killed, why have over fifty of the election poling stations already been blown up in Iraq.
Also, if people are so happy with their new democracy, why has most of the new government been killed??

The crap that such people talk, is on parr with, the UK would have been better off under Hitler. It is complete rubbish, are you saying then, that Iraqi people like being rapped? Like being blown up? Are you saying that Iraqi's like having their families disapeared under the guise of fighting "terror" and ending up in Abu Gharib? Are you saying that Iraqis like living in a state of permanant fear from beheadings, shelling, shooting and kidnap, schools being closed and airports being turned into prison camps??

When people say that "yes the Iraqis are happy" you are saying that all the terror that Bush and Blair have inflicted is justified and our government is right to continue. You are saying that the US and UK have the right to be on foreign soil, you are saying that it is ok to invade countries, create havoc and leave others to clean up the mess.

You are also saying that it is ok for our army, if they wished to go and obtain iraqi passports, stage a coup in the UK and massacre all people not carrying an Iraqi passport. Because if it is ok for us to do it, then it has got to be ok for some one to do it to us.

We can not live in a world where people are being bred like animals, thats what makes humans different, so lets stop behaving like animals and get our troops out of Iraq!