...do you suppose we could stay away from rash generalisations about hunt supporters? I mean, yes it is a good thing that hunting is to banned, it's long overdue, and yes there are some hunt supporters who are complete and total arseholes, but most people who go hunting are the sort of people you'd happily chat to if you met them in the pub. I happen to know a lot of lovely, happy people with whom I get on very well who just happen to like going hunting as well.
Just because they're not right doesn't mean they're not people like the rest of us.

...I mean these fascists have caused me so many problems, personnally I mean, (*) not just to foxes...I wanna see these filth in pain.

Blessed be,

King Amdo.

I used to be vehemently against fox hunting, but the anti-human 'campaigners' that come up with hateful drivel like this 'graphic' have done an excellent job of changing my mind. Why would I want to be associated with such sick people?

I don't particularly want to see animals ripped to shreds (what with me having a houseful of pets and all), but given a choice between that and actual human beings being subjected to violence and intimidation, give me a ripped to bits Reynard every time...

Well done, anti-hunt scumbags!

The above graphic is what the countrys wildlife would have wanted all along. This day cannot come soon enough for them.

Nobody has 'the right' to terrorise and massacre the wildlife that inhabits this country.

NOBODY

Its amazing how easily 'alien sex friend''s opinion is changed. Doesn't he/she have an opinion or any convictions of their own? That their are plenty of twats ( hello Nick) in the animal rights 'movement' doesn't mean that should affect my opinion about the rights and wrongs of hunting/vivisection/factory farming etc. That Adolf Hitler supported vegetarianism doesn't make me want to go back eating meat!


Anyway - the ban has been delayed till 2006 and I doubt it will ever go as it might upset the toffs.

Hitler and Animals

Like many of his fellow human beings, Adolf Hitler used
animal epithets to vilify other people. He often called his
opponents "swine" and "dirty dogs." The Bolsheviks were
"animals," and the Russians a "bestial people" and Slavic
"rabbit-family" whom Stalin had molded into a totalitarian
state. After Hitler conquered Russia, he wanted "the
ridiculous hundred million Slavs" to live in "pig-pens." He
called British diplomats "little worms," and, as for the
"half-Judaized, half-Negrified" people of America, they "have
the brains of a hen." Hitler had contempt for his own people,
referring to them as "the great stupid mutton-herd of our
sheep-like people," and when the defeats mounted late in the
war, he blamed them for not having risen to the challenge.
Hitler called his own sisters "stupid geese."

Whatever deficiencies members of the Germanic Volk might
possess, however, Hitler believed the Aryan/Nordic race was
infinitely superior to the surrounding sea of sub-human
"monstrosities between man and ape," as he made clear in a
speech in Munich in 1927:

We see before us the Aryan race which is manifestly
the bearer of all culture, the true representative of
all humanity....Our entire industrial science is without
exception the work of Nordics. All great composers from
Beethoven to Richard Wagner are Aryans....Man owes
everything that is of any importance to the principle
of struggle and to one race which has carried itself
forward successfully. Take away the Nordic Germans and
nothing remains but the dance of apes.

Hitler was fond of dogs, especially German shepherds (he
considered boxers "degenerate"), whom he liked to control and
dominate. At the front during World War I, he befriended a
white terrier, Fuchsl (Foxl), who had strayed across enemy
lines. Later, when his unit had to move on and Fuchsl could
not be found, Hitler became distraught. "I liked him so much,"
he recalled. "He only obeyed me." Hitler often carried a dog-
whip and sometimes used it to beat his dog the same way he had
seen his father beat his own dog. In the Fuhrer headquarters
during World War II, Hitler's female German shepherd, Blondi,
offered him the closest thing he had to friendship. "But with
his dogs, as with every human being he came into contact
with," writes his biographer Ian Kershaw, "any relationship
was based upon subordination to his mastery."

Although Hitler consumed animal products such as cheese,
butter, and milk, he often tried to avoid meat to placate his
"nervous stomach." He suffered from indigestion and episodic
stomach pains that had troubled him since adolescence, as well
as from excessive flatulence and uncontrollable sweating. The
first evidence of his attempt to cure his stomach problems by
controlling his diet appears in a letter he wrote in 1911
while living in Vienna: "I am pleased to be able to inform you
that I already feel altogether well....It was nothing but a
small stomach upset and I am trying to cure myself through a
diet of fruits and vegetables."

Hitler discovered that when he reduced his meat intake, he
did not sweat as much, and there were fewer stains in his
underwear. He also became convinced that eating vegetables
improved the odors of his flatulence, a condition that
distressed him terribly and caused him much embarrassment.
Hitler, who had a great fear of contracting cancer, which
killed his mother, believed that meat eating and pollution
caused cancer.

Nonetheless, Hitler never gave up his favorite meat
dishes, especially Bavarian sausages, liver dumplings, and
stuffed and roasted game. The European chef Dione Lucas, who
worked as a hotel chef in Hamburg before the war, remembers
often being called upon to prepare for Hitler his favorite
dish. "I do not mean to spoil your appetite for stuffed squab
[fledgling pigeon about four weeks old]," she wrote in her
cookbook, "but you might be interested to know that it was a
great favorite with Mr. Hitler, who dined at the hotel often.
Let us not hold that against a fine recipe though."

Whatever his dietary preferences, Hitler showed little
sympathy for the vegetarian cause in Germany. When he came to
power in 1933, he banned all the vegetarian societies in
Germany, arrested their leaders, and shut down the main
vegetarian magazine published in Frankfurt. Nazi persecution
forced German vegetarians, a tiny minority in a nation of
carnivores, either to flee the country or go underground. The
German pacifist and vegetarian, Edgar Kupfer-Koberwitz, fled
to Paris and then to Italy where the Gestapo arrested him and
sent him to the Dauchau concentration camp (see Chapter 8).
During the war Germany banned all vegetarian organizations in
the territories it occupied, even though vegetarian diets
would have helped alleviate wartime food shortages.

According to the historian Robert Payne, the myth of
Hitler's strict vegetarianism was the work of Nazi Germany's
minister of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels:

Hitler's asceticism played an important part in the
image he projected over Germany. According to the widely
believed legend, he neither smoke nor drank, nor did he
eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the
first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently,
had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a
mistress, Eva Braun, who lived with him quietly at the
Berghof.
There had been other discreet affairs with women.
His asceticism was fiction invented by Goebbels to
emphasize his total dedication, his self-control, the
distance that separated him from other men. By this
outward show of asceticism, he could claim that he was
dedicated to the service of his people.

Hitler was, in fact, "remarkably self-indulgent and
possessed none of the instincts of the ascetic," writes Payne.
His cook was an enormously fat man named Willy Kannenberg, who
produced exquisite meals. "Although Hitler had no fondness for
meat except in the form of sausages and never ate fish, he
enjoyed caviar and was a connoisseur of sweets, crystallized
fruit, and cream cakes, which he consumed in astonishing
quantities. He drank tea and coffee drowned in cream and
sugar. No dictator ever had a sweeter tooth."

As for compassion and gentleness, these were anathama to
Hitler, who believed that might makes right and the strong
deserved to inherit the earth. He had utter contempt for the
nonviolent philosophy of strict vegetarians and ridiculed
Gandhi. Hitler's most basic belief was that nature is ruled by
the law of struggle and only the strong prevailed. He wanted
young Germans to be brutal, authoritarian, fearless, and cruel
("The youth that will grow up in my fortresses will frighten
the world."). They must not be weak or gentle. "The light of
the free, marvelous beast of prey must once again shine from
their eyes. I want my youth to be strong and beautiful."
Hitler once summarized his worldview in a single sentence: "He
who does not possess power loses the right to life."

The reputed fondness of Hitler and other top Nazis for
animals, especially their dogs, has been put into perspective
by Max Horkheimer and Theodor Adorno. For certain
authoritarian personalities, they write, their "love of
animals" is part of the way they intimidate others. When
industrial magnates and Fascist leaders want to have pets
around them, Horkheimer and Adorno maintain, their choice
falls on intimidating animals such as Great Danes and lion
cubs, which are intended to add to their power through the
terror they inspire.

"The murderous Fascist colossus stands so blindly before
nature that he sees animals only as a means of humiliating
men," they write. "The Fascist's passionate interest in
animals, nature, and children is rooted in the lust to
persecute." While with their hand they might negligently
stroke a child's head, or an animal's back, that same hand
could just as easily destroy them. "The petting demonstrates
that all are equal in the presence of power, that none is a
being in its own right. A creature is merely material for the
master's bloody purposes."


Eternal Treblinka:  http://www.powerfulbook.com

I know that a lot of hunters are nasty, violent people who think nothing of beating up or even murdering sabs because they dare to non-violently prevent them from killing wildlife. I know a lot of hunters who love to hurt sabs and I can't help feeling deep hostility towards those hunters. After watching a big gang of hunt supporters getting a thrill out of beating up a couple of lone sabs, I had a deep urge to get revenge in some way (although preferably by damaging their precious expensive cars rather than waiting to get them alone and then giving them a taste of their own medicine - most animal rights campaigners are not violent people at all, even when it comes to those who truly deserve it).

However, I deeply dislike this "us and them"; "good vs evil" mentality. I don't think that branding all hunters, vivisectors or whatever as evil perverts who deverve to die is helpful (or true). After all, quite a lot of people in the animal rights movement came from an animal abusing background. Hunters have become sabs, vivisectors have become abolitionists (and some of our most important allies, as people who know first-hand that vivisection completely unscientific as well as immoral) and so on. Mike Nunn, one of the key people in forming the modern animal rights movement, started out as a butcher. Were these people evil before but good now? Are they still evil despite dedicating their lives to fighting for animal rights? Or are they just normal people, who like all of us can sometimes hold false opinions and make mistakes through ignorance or weakness?

Isn't it possible that our "good vs evil" rhetoric will turn potential supporters against us? After all, if I was confronted by a campaigner who simply hurled abuse and threats at me I would be unlikely to listen to their message or question my own behaviour. I would simply feel hostile in return, and band together with the other people who were also being insulted to fight back. If instead the campaigner acted like a rational person who was out to stop cruelty and not out to get me personally then I'd give them more credence.

I'm certainly not saying that animal abusers are all good people deep down - I know for a fact that many of them truly are sadistic, others would do anything at all for money and others just couldn't give a shit about anybody but themselves - but I am saying that we should not write off ALL animal abusers as "evil" and hope to see them suffering or dead.

Ok arp (animal rights protester?) that's your view.

I just hope you don't let that mentality blind you in your struggle for complete and total animal liberation.

I beg to differ and see The Enemy as The Enemy. Black and White.

How can someone who deliberately injures any animal for profit or pleasure gain be let off your hook?

Ok, so jerry vlasak used to be a vivisector and mike nunn a butcher, but I wouldn't be waiting around for their consciousnesses to awaken before I tried to stop them inflicting hideous suffering on those that cannot fight back for themselves!

...again this is the perspective from 'behind the scenes of reality'....(not the usual workaday perspective). I usued to work on farms in North Wales, and have some experience of this from the farming side, as well as knoledge of animal rights scene...from living in Oxford a few years ago).... and I have to say that this so called sport is in fact some sort of magical sacrement...in order to foculise 'landowner world'. It's an anti tribal, pro-livestock ranching, sadist rite that helps to create this illusionary reality...this mind/reality con. It's past it's sell by date, people in the country are sick of all this bullshit, and we want our land back from british nazi's! It(the sadist fox hunt) is a wholely maliagn influence in the country, and in society that leads to other abuses. It's evil. See them riding around in the red coats'...they are just acting out british army war games on animals outside time of war...Thats whats going on here. In Cumbria in the last century, thee fox hunting maniacs were so thourough that they hunted out all the native (grey) foxes and they had to bring in some regular ones from outside in order to carry on hunting This was a pro hunting book in a old house.

Seems like now they've been sussed out!

Now stop egoising british farmers and landowners, plant extensivly with native trees (yes there are grants you greedy cunt), or you and your personnal family will die in fear horror and pain. Is this some sort of 'personnal terrorist threat'?. No. Unless immediate remedial action is taken, environmental catastrophy is inevitable.

CYMRU TRIBAL SOVERIGNTY!

TIBETAN TRIBAL SOVERIGNTY!

I'd like to take this oppourtunity to emphasise that the Makah tribe whale hunt is however a genuine tribal hunt, outside of (OBVIOUSLY CHEEKY COMMY ANIMAL RIGHTS FILDTH) either this sadist landowner rite type 'hunt', or the money orientated rape of the Mother, the animals and us! type 'hunt'.

It is a give away hunt...given away to the tribe...the other way around from the preditory hunter chasing a kill...sounds weid I know, but these auspicious realities are common to tribal and eastern realites...that because of the way the system is constructed here (on a ritual level), is inherently trashed and attemptedly scpapegoated. Why does this have to be said? because the way the animal rights scene seems to work is in the usual egoising 'global takover' type way. Have some respect for tribal people please westeners. They are sick of your bullshit.


See how these rows start?

Have you ever written anything on UKIMC without being stoned?

Commie animal rights filth???

I can only guess you are an ex welsh traveller who's done too many shrooms, got lost in shit and have now been let loose on a computer. Only guessing mind.

Jeesus...

oh for crying out loud, this is a good thing, the ban i mean, not the shooting. when will you all see that killing and animal for fun, ending it's life is evil, not bad, not wrong but evil. yeah lets take it's body home as a trophie, lets skin it so we can wear it, lets publish it on the net so people will be impressed as to how brave masculine we are in killing an animal much smaller thab ourselves, this is stupid. So the fox is shot and if that aint enough lets bring it home as a trophie, or put the body outside it's dn so it's cubs come out thinking their mother is food then being shot themselves. this is no worse than any of the wars, WW1 WW2 or the civil wars, or war in irak, it is all the same, we dont know when to stop.

from ali, age 12 on behalf of her family and year 8 class and teacher.