# sorry forgot their website...

www.reggaeinthepark.co.uk


se also www.outrage.org.uk for info on the campaign against murdermusic etc.

also Peter Tatchell's article in todays Guardian (comment column) on this subject.

www.guardian.co.uk

Wow... new words... Hatesingers and murdermusic. I would have thought those would be two words each. Nevermind. Anyway, as you were... Hurrah for Censorship of Art!!!!

calling for people to be murdered because of their sexuality is not an 'art form', its hate speech with intent. its a statistical fact that after popular homophobic 'artists' give live performances incidences of homophobic attacks in the local vicinity rise dramatically. the murder rate of homosexuals in jamaica is ridiculous and offensive, and is in part down to the irresponsible speech made by these lyric writers and singers.

if this had been a huge festival with loudly racist headliners, would you cry 'art'?

these 'artists' and their lyrics are actively trying to remove freedom, even life, for homosexual people - is freedom of speech more important than the freedom of people?

Am I reading this correctly?

One group cannot tolerate the intolerance of another?

An interesting exchange. Debates about the limits of free speech have wracked the left and anti-capitalist milieux for decades, without conclusion. For example, in the last few weeks, the anarchist newspaper Freedom has been full of angry letters debating the extent (or not) to which physical confrontation with fascists is acceptable, and the left wing groups SWP, CPB, AWL et al have been disagreeing about the extent (or otherwise) to which they should work with less progressive organisations, particularly religious ones.

A common and quite lazy formulation on the left is to quote Voltaire's maxim "I disagree with what you say but defend to death your right to say it". This seeks to differentiate expression and speech from actual acts of violence. However, as one previous poster in this thread has pointed out, in practice politics is far less neat, and empirical evidence now does appear to suggest that the verbal assaults on groups (in this particular instance, gay people) can and does translate directly into physical reality.
This is a point that I think far too many of us in various left/progressive movements fail to grasp properly. To the victims of homophobic abuse, or sectarian/racial assault, hearing straight/white leftists, myself included, ban on about 'freedom of speech for all' must sound decidedly crass.

What do other people think?

Cheers all

Caz

how the f**k can so many people miss the point that real people are being murdered on a regular basis as a result of the attitudes that are expressed in this "music"?
Caz your waffling, bullshit, pointless post was only worthy for recognising the crassness of your own response.
No-one should ever claim the "right to murder" as a fumdamental human right, and trying to disguise this is as "free speech" is worse than the BN f*cking P.
I have a Jamaican frined living in the UK who will NEVER go back to his home country because being viciously attakced and possibly murdered is a REAL threat he would face EVER DAY there.
so f*ck off those crying "censorship of art".

Umm, jinjin, dear. My point *was* to criticse those on the left who 'waffle' about freedom of art. I have every sympathy with OutRage!s campaign against Sizzla and Vybz Cartel because, like you, I've got plenty of black gay friends who are ostracised from Jamaican culture. Only today I've been writing to the Office of Communications to make a complaint about a local black radio station who plays Sizzla citing 'freedom of speech'. So, do calm down and read my post again. You might still think I'm a bullshitting left wing waffler, but you'll find we're actually on the same side.

Thanks

Caz

jeez- what is it wiv indymedia and thoughtless angry posters? arsefez sarkily tells us that the outrage campaign is 'censoring' art. well, if it's advocating mass murder, then i got no problems with censoring that. jin jin's heart is in the right place, but s/he's so full of rage that s/he totally gets the wrong end of the stick of cazzs post. indymedia's worth more than getting blocked up by ranters. you got a million commercial message boards to let off steam on.

just wanted to add that another area where the 'free speech' argument regularly pops up is pornography. is pornography really free expression or an industry built on the exploitation of women?

Morning. I personally am glad that the concert has been cancelled if those people were going to perfom. But what is wrong with the left? I've read some evil queens bitching on gay web forums but wow - some of the people that use this site seem a bit mental. If jinjin and tonic or arsefez have the best debate the left can offer than it is going to remain marginalised and isolated. Shame really, as many of the left's ideas are cool.

Hi 'R'. Your point is good. I think there are different types of pornography. Exploiters making money, and collective efforts that consenting adults make up. There's now a womens co-op effort making racy videos by women for women and there's a new gay man's group doing the same. This is a million miles away from 'Hustlers' type porn, IMHO.

Weekly Black newspaper The Voice leads with the cancellation of the reggae festival in their latest issue (issue dated Thursday 2nd September 2004). Given that The Voice was often considered homophobic the last time the issue of dancehall reggae was 'in the news' (around 1991/2, over the Buju Banton/Shabba Ranks debacle) their coverage this time is much more positive towards black lesbians and gay men. OutRage! and the UK Black Gay Men's Forum chair are given space to debate.

The left and anarchist press doesn't seem to report on the matter at all this week. Only the communist daily Morning Star has covered it to my knowledge. Meanwhile, gay weekly The Pink Paper this week includes a great call for 'subvertising' of billboards which have gone up advertising Beenie Man around the country. Beenie Man was not involved in the cancelled reggae festival, but is known for his hate lyrics. www.pinkpaper.co.uk/letters.

Cheers

Caz