What are 'autonomous spaces'? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

> Please mail the GLA liaison for the ESF,  deborah.dickey@london.gov.uk and ask her to
> ask Ken to stop the intimidation.

Ask her to ask Ken? Anything else we should ask her to do while she is representing us? Perhaps we should lobby Ken for more social housing and better provision for young people?

> This is getting really silly. On the one hand you have Ken trying to get to open
> the ESF ceremony, on the other his cop minions are curtailing people's right to meet.

What 'right' or do you mean the Human Rights Act ensrigned in British Law?
Do you want this particular law to be honoured while trying to end authority?

autonomous spaces - autonomous minds - autonomous acts - autonomous anarchists

So the police in London are now under the control of Ken Livingston?

lol

Hi Fred,

Autonomous spaces as I understand them are directly democratic spaces run 'horizontally' and aiming to be free from coercive authority, such as social centres. There is an indymedia feature on the social centre movement/phenomenon here:  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/05/291924.html

In the context of the European Social Forum (ESF) autonomous spaces are an attempt by 'horizontals' to organise a program of events in a manner compatible with the grassroots ethos of the ESF, as opposed to the 'jump into bed with political parties and new labour cronies' approach the 'official' ESF is taking. Hope that helps,

Er, the last two ESF's have been open to all, perhaps you want a "pure" ESF made up only of people who agree with you, but what would be the point?

It always amazes me how intolerant some Autonomists can be, if you disagree with them you are worthless, a mirror image of the worst excesses of the Stalinist left.

"Er, the last two ESF's have been open to all"

Agreed, but this isn't happening this time. The GLA, that is a section of the British State, has seized control, headed by Ken Livingstone who recently *rejoined* new labour. All proposals for ESF activities have to be approved through them. The mmeting process has being exclusivist with pre-made decisions and denouncements of genuine disagreemnet as 'splitting'. Its not the autonomists I've met who won't tolerate disagreement.

The Autonomous ESF is the very antithesis of Stalinism - the purpose is to create open spaces for anyone to talk and allow well facilitated horizontal debate and action. The 'official' ESF by contrast is becoming more and more a vanity project of politicians, Livingstone in particular, at the expense of the diversity that makes up 'the movement'.

The autonomous ESF has *nothing* to do with excluding dissenting views, and in fact was born as a reaction against just that, so lets not make absurd allegations of Stalinism. No-ones being sent to the gulag, no-ones being censored and no-ones being airbrushed from history.

This has become standard police harrasment tactics. Don't let it bother you. At least it means they think you are important enough to waste police time on. Take photos of them, some of them don't like it.

Doug.

Sonic- an honest question for you- I know you regularly check out articles regarding the ESF or other topics the SWP and it's front groups take an interest in- so your silence will also surffice as an answer-

but it would be nice if you could be bothered to actually come out and post a response-

so my question is Sonic.....Do you condem the harrassment of the autonomus spaces project by the London police or not?

I have evidence that Ken Livingstone and the SWP leadership met in secret on Monday with the Chief Constable of the Met to plan how to contain the threat to the UK state posed by this meeting of autonomists. Permission was subsequently sought from Blunkett to deploy police immediately with armed back-up on standby.

Also I've seen computer printouts showing that resources including CCTV, remote eavesdropping, heat cameras and surveillance satellites have been tasked to track the movements of all participants.

The Office of Threat Monitoring (part of MI6) have categorised the anti-ESF and the horizontals as "the single most immediate and serious threat to security in the capital".

so my question is Sonic.....Do you condem the harrassment of the autonomus spaces project by the London police or not?


Of course I do, all of the anti-capitalist left should as well.

I'm not in Europe anymore, I'm off traveling, but I was at the last two ESF's (and at Genoa) and the one blot on these otherwise amazing events was small groups on the left bickering with each other rather than trying to work out how to broaden the movement.

I am assuming you have not read or followed the development of the autonomous spaces initiatives. Because if you had you would not be making the criticisms you've made. The autonomous spaces projects involve a wide range of groups with very wide ranging differences in politics and relations to the main ESF. However they have all participated in extensive discussions on their differences, and have remained determined to work together - "intolerant"? - I don't think so!

It's also worth noting that saying the ESF is "open to all" is not quite true. All of the autonomous initiatives are united in criticising the ESF organising process as being exclusionary and non-participatory - and this also comes from some who have been very involved in the actual organising process.

It's not about a "pure" ESF - autonomous spaces people have been careful to make a distinction between the actual event as it happens on the ground and those who attend it, and the way the event is organised and conceptualised.

For info see the draft call which sets some of this out:

--------------------------------------------------------

Call for Autonomous Spaces during the ESF in London, 14-17th October 2004

We are a loose network of individuals, groups, organisations and grassroots communities and who act, think and struggle for another world beyond capitalism.

We write this call to those in the UK, the rest of europe and those further afield to participate in building alternative autonomous spaces around the European Social Forum, which will be held in London during October (Thursday 14th - Sunday 17th) 2004.

We want to create open spaces for networking, exchanges, celebration, thinking and action. We believe our ways of organising and acting should reflect our political visions and are united in standing for grassroots self-organisation, horizontally, for diversity and inclusion, for direct democracy, collective decision-making based upon consensus, and against the false consensus in which power is used to silence others.

We do not have, nor represent, one single unified position on the ESF

We are, however, all united in the knowledge of the ESF UK organising process as non-transparent, non-participatory, and exclusionary. The UK ESF organising process has essentially been controlled by the hierarchical and authoritarian Socialist Workers Party [SWP], Socialist Action, and through the central involvement of Mayor Ken Livingstone's Greater London Authority.

Because the organising process and methodology both in the UK and at the european level has not reflected the values and charters which the ESF aspires to, the ESF process is politically bankrupt.

However we wish to state clearly that we recognise, value and support the energy, diversity, and experiences of those attending the ESF.

It is also important to say that some of us have tried to work inside the ESF process, fighting to "democratise" the ESF, and as such, much of our criticism is borne from experience and cannot be dismissed. Some of us believe that it is possible to rebuild the ESF to make it closer to the ideals it claims, and to build a truly participative process, others - after their experiences - believe this is simply not possible.

Some of us wish to go further and say that the entire basis of the ESF is fundamentally illegitimate, that it only represents a space for the co-option of struggles, and that as such, it should be opposed. While others are aware of the problems within the ESF process but don't wish to be defined by them and are simply interested in working with organisational processes that are more authentic under the statement "another world is possible". We all however are united in our diversity and in our desire to act together in ways that respect these differences.

We invite you to join us...

Following an international Autonomous Spaces meeting in Berlin in June, where 70 individuals from 45 groups and networks came together, discussions and planning has continued in London. There are now several self-organised and autonomous spaces under construction - they range from legally hired venues to squatted social centres.

An alternative programme of events will cover areas such as precarious work(ers), asylum and migrant issues, community organising, anti-war campaigns, environment, gender issues, alternative media, and technologies of control - from copyright to biometric ID cards, the G8 - which comes to the UK next year in 2005, and more... There will be film screenings, alternative media centres, street theatre, parties, creative actions and protests...

We invite you to participate in the Autonomous Spaces, to help shape them, to organise workshops, discussions, creative interventions, and practical alternatives.

To get involved email:  autospace@yahoo.co.uk
Website:  http://www.altspaces.net

Contact rampART via  rampart@mutualaid.org
Website:  http://www.rampart.co.nr

Other relevant links:

 http://esf2004.net/ - open ESF website
 http://esf2004.net/en/tiki-index.php?page=AutonomousSpaceForESF2004 - esf2004 autonomous spaces
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/actions/2004/esf/ - UK Indymedia topic page for the ESF
 http://www.enrager.net/features/esf/ - a non-authoritarian perspective
 http://www.europeancreativeforum.org/ - a non-political artistic perspective
 http://www.fse-esf.org/ - the official ESF website

The police turned up just before 7pm.

The autonomous spaces meeting for the european social forum had been advertised on the internet and on mailing lists as starting at 7.30pm. The grouping of people, organisations and networks involved in the autonomous and self organised spaces for the ESF has been very wide, ranging from occupied social centres, the wombles, through academics, many involved in the ESF process, to volunteers from indymedia, other alternative and community media groups, people from the London Social Forum, a large range of campaign groups from privacy advocates and monitoring organisations to gender groups and migrant groups, as well as creative arts, theatre and music groups, to alternative and participatory economics groups and others from the social economy and sustainability sectors. A wide programme of events, meetings, presentations, discussions and film screenings is being planned for October, mostly in hired and donated venues, some also in occupied social centres.

The autonomous and self organised spaces are recognised by the main ESF process and will be listed in the actual printed programme for the ESF. Monday 16th August was the sixth autonomous spaces meeting in London, being held at the Grand Banks occupied social centre opposite Tufnell Park tube station.

This is the context in which the police conducted their first operation against the autonomous and self organised spaces. Just before 7pm two police officers arrived outside the building. When a couple of people from inside the social centre asked what they were doing they said they were concerned about graffiti. They then crossed the road to the tube station where they met a sergeant from the city of london police I think. Then two riot vans arrived and more police.

In total there were about 12 officers. They positioned themselves all around the road junction along with two camera units, one with a very big telescopic lense, who then started taking pictures of anyone outside the building or entering the building.

At first two officers went and stood on the steps in front of the building blocking the door.

I asked a sergeant (XB?) why they were here and he replied "For the meeting". I asked if he thought that twelve officers and two vans was perhaps overkill and that maybe it could be interpreted as intimidation - he replied "We are here to facilitate the meeting, to ensure that you have a safe meeting. It's a matter of protecting your rights. We are here to keep you safe".

Other police officers were questioning people who took an interest in their presence:
"are you here for the meeting"
"what is your political affiliation"
"which group do you belong to?"

Others engaged with passers by (the police operation looked quite large and was drawing quite a lot of attention). Some officers were telling people that those associated with the building were political extremists. They also tried to discourage others who said they were there to attend the meeting from going into the building.

They stayed in position for around two hours continuing to take pictures of anyone arriving or leaving, camera flashes illuminating the area every few seconds, others taking copious amounts of notes in their notebeooks.

Inside the meeting went ahead as planned. At the end of the meeting the matter of the police surveillance / initmidation operation was discussed and it was decided that it was important to hold the next meeting in the same location, both to show that people will not be intimidated, and also to show solidarity with the social centre.

------

For note the police in attendance had the following shoulder ID letters:
GD, CD?, EK, D, XB, SO, SCD

Asif Umupitz says

"I have evidence that Ken Livingstone and the SWP leadership met in secret on Monday with the Chief Constable of the Met to plan how to contain the threat to the UK state posed by this meeting of autonomists. Permission was subsequently sought from Blunkett to deploy police immediately with armed back-up on standby."

Where is this evidence? What SWP leader met with the Chief Constable of the Met?

As for "The Office of Threat Monitoring (part of MI6) have categorised the anti-ESF and the horizontals as "the single most immediate and serious threat to security in the capital" " - give us a break.

When will the next autonomous spaces meeting be by the way?

I should know better, I thought my posting was fairly obviously taking the piss but it really does seem people will believe anything about the SWP!

(try saying my name out loud by the way)

You said:
I should know better, I thought my posting was fairly obviously taking the piss but it really does seem people will believe anything about the SWP!


>>>> Well why did you bother - wasting people's time with make-believe hype, which could easily be interpreted as being true by some until it was counteracted. If it wasn't, would you have been content to have some belive this bullshit was true!

All said and done, SWP ARE state-fixers - but I prefer to have evidence I rely on to be true than this made-up bullshit.

Please stop wasting everybody's time and energy with crap, asif (or whatever your name is). There is quite enough to do and think about, quite apart from your silly little made-up tittle tattle and pranks.

I mean to say, spy satellites, heat tracking? Blunkett, Livingstone and the Trots in a big secret conspiracy just to give you grief? Do you wear a tin foil hat by any chance?