Polish Uprising

Stefan | 30.07.2004 15:21

Warsaw uprising anniversary

Three days of commemorations have begun in Warsaw marking the 60th anniversary of the uprising by Polish partisans against Nazi occupiers. More than 200,000 civilians were killed and Warsaw was left in ruins.

The partisan uprising broke out at 1700 on 1 August, 1944. At the time, its commanders estimated they could hold out for about five days without help Against a vastly better-equipped German army, the insurgents held out for much longer - 63 days. Its leaders were counting on help from the rapidly advancing Soviet army, which had just reached the outskirts of Warsaw. The Red Army halted its advance and observed the battle from the other side of Warsaw's Vistula River. They sat and watched as the SS commanders carried out Hitler's orders to level the city and kill or deport its inhabitants.

Stalin also installed a puppet government - a new occupation which would last for more than four decades had begun.

Polish people are today celebrating their freedom from both the Nazis and the Communists. If any reader of this can make it to Warsaw in the next few days you will be able to enjoy a great party.

Freedom !!!!!

Stefan

Comments

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Hey

30.07.2004 16:23

Have a good time Stefan. You and the the Polish people deserve it. The the Nazis then the Communists ! What a history.

Socket

and now the USAns..

31.07.2004 11:44

get rid of one lot, another lot slips in under the bright lights.. now poland is filling up with (USAn military bases and) hideous factory pig farms, the stench of this latest invasion is extreme!

zoladkowa gozka
Homepage: http://www.bankwatch.org/issues/ebrd/animex/manimex.html

the difference is ...

31.07.2004 13:48

... that if you don't like the Americans, you can vote for a Govt that can ask them to leave. You couldn't do that with the Nazis and Communists. And how was your democracy won? Could it be something to do with NATO?

sceptic

and the difference could be...

31.07.2004 19:25

that the present regime is more subtil than the authoritarian regimes of the past. Divide and conquer, carrot and stick and so on. In the existing pseudo-democracy nobody is going to be able to vote out American/Western European multis. And don't forget that Churchill also sold out the Polish (non-Communist) exile army, using its soldiers and pilots in defence of Britain promising them help in freeing their land and then abandoning them by making an agreement with Stalin behind their backs to let the Polish Communist exile army being the ones to "liberate" their country.

Max

the reason why it's called democracy

31.07.2004 23:16

or, like you, pseudo, is that you can vote for whoever you want. And throw out who you want. But do go on and bore us about how it's not 'real' democracy.

Churchill did abandon the Poles to Stalin. But I can imagine how many of you would have squealed if he proposed attacking Russian forces in 1945.

sceptic

hmm

01.08.2004 15:09

Simply because idiots insist voting for indistinguishable parties every 5 years in any way relates to the 'rule by the people' of the Athenian polis does not make its so. The system you refer to as 'democracy' is in fact elective oligarchy - it is not even representative democracy as MPs act *on behalf of* the electorate according to central party policy, not as delegates of the electorates will. Sorry to bore you 'sceptic', but I'm sure others are interested to see how wrong you are.

And surely people are aware what happens when people actually vote against international capital - Salavador Allende anyone? Overthrown by the CIA and replaced with General Pinochet, that nice chap.

athenian

ah,

01.08.2004 17:34

Yes, people are idiots, of course, aren't they? They haven't been enlightened as you obviously have.

By and large, tho, it's quite true that most democracies end up as elective oligarchies. However, if you want to change things, you need to campaign. However, comparing elective oligarchies with most other forms of government that countries have tried, I think I'll plump for it.

Allende was a victim of the Cold War rather than anything else. Thankfully, with the collapse of the Soviet Union, that is no longer a problem.

sceptic

my impression

01.08.2004 20:12

of Poland now is that peoples' main concern is not to be subject to any more governance experiments. they know they can't trust the government but really just want to get used to being out from under an immediate thumb before making any big fuss. people are just trying to work out how to govern themselves for the first time in ages, and get a bit richer (a lot of the people are really very poor). it's not easy, in the current climate.
there is a risk from fascist nationalism out east that is fed by the current corporate/military base invasion..
isn't this where more communication beetween free thinkers east and west could help? why not invite everyone funky you know from eastern Europe to the (autonomous) ESF in London this autumn? !~
we need all the help we can get to keep the old left from eating our movement, and they know all about the dangers of 'the party' taking over! meanwhile they need all the help they can get in resisting gangsterism, corporate invasion and reactionary conservatism... at least a little more solidarity anyway... let's share our crazy experiences.
www.esf2004.net
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well

02.08.2004 09:27

"people are idiots"

Not generally, I'm not claiming enlightenment but simply that the word democracy does not describe the political systems of 'the west'. Sure elective oligarchies are prefferable to tyrannies of left or right, but they are not democracies - you concede my point so I won't divert this thread any further.

"why not invite everyone funky you know from eastern Europe to the (autonomous) ESF in London this autumn?"

Good plan (depending on the meaning of 'funky' ;-) - I'm sure people who lived under soviet tyranny but still question the capitalist status quo are in a better position than most of us here to see what needs to happen in eastern europe - bring on the autonomous ESF and sod THE PARTY (any of 'em)

athenian

nhot only in the east..

02.08.2004 10:03

well, I'd say funky is as funky does...
but yeah, what does the east need - and what do we need here in the west?
maybe some easterners can help us undermine the swp/party approach to 'another world' over this side too.... and build a real solidarity based on learning from each other's crazy history and experiences.
so back to the original point of the post - a toast to the Polish who died sixty years ago, and to those who live on, trying to build a better future now...
Nazdrowje!! (or however the hell you spell it)
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