If you are interested to see what real vegetarianism (i.e. no chicken, fish, etc.) is about and how great it is for you, animals and the planet, come to the London Vegan Festival on July 4th at Kensington Town Hall  http://www.veganfestival.freeserve.co.uk/ There will be loads of great food and some excellent speakers.

I ATE A WHOLE FUCKIN' COW ONCE! MMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

Yum Yum .. Another asshole with nothing to say..Why not advertise your body on the internet for some human freak to eat..bit by bit..drain your blood, fry your genitals..watch them eat them if your still conscious ... and like fade away bozo?!:)))

Veganism is the way to liberation of your-self and other living beings!

Bye!

Do vegans choose not to eat eggs, milk and other animal products because they oppose the cruel manner in which these animals are kept or is it because they don't believe that using animals for human benefit is ever aceptable? Presumably if the former is true then products from animals which are ACTUALLY free range and did not suffer are acceptable. However if the lattter is true then basically we would not have any farm animals at all as farmers only breed them for this purpose.

Unfortunately free range doesnt mean the animals dont suffer. The conditions are generally slightly better but still bad. For example 'free-range' hens still live i ncramped conditions and are killed when the number of eggs they lay starts to decline. Also unwanted chicks are still killed by gassing/suffocation. If you are intersted have a look at www.veganoutreach.com

It completely depends on the individual.
Plus, basically there is a "split" between rights theory and utilitarianism. Someone who believes in animal right would think that "enslaving" them, even if we treat them really well, would violate their rights. Someone with a more utilitarian outlook may think that, in theory, there is nothing wrong with "enslaving" animals as long as they are happy and don't suffer. But they may also oppose all farming as they think that for as long as we continue to see animals as a means to an end - machines for producing eggs or dairy - rather than an end in themselves, it is unlikely that we can be trusted to give enough consideration to their interests. The fact that blatantly cruel farming methods could become the norm in this country - a nation of "animal lovers" who gives millions to the RSPCA every year and would revolt if animals they don't want to eat (such as dogs and cats) were kept this way - gives weight to this idea.

In any case, it would not be practically possible to keep animals humanely to supply us with eggs or dairy. To produce milk we need to separate the calf from its mother, which is cruel in itself - then there is the problem of what to do with the male calves who can't give milk - at the moment they go for veal, are fattened for beef or are simply shot. We'd also need to use cows that weren't so highly bred to produce such unnaturally high quantites of milk (as this causes all kinds of painful health problems), so we would only be able to produce a lot less milk. We'd also need a better way to keep then in winter than tethered in barns, unable to even turn around - this would cost a fortune and take up tons of space.

The same goes for eggs - what would happen to the 30 000 000 male layer chicks who are hatched every year, and currently suffocated or ground up alive as soon as they are hatched? If they weren't killed we'd be overun by them. Plus hens begin to lay less after a year or two; what would we do with them then if not kill them?

let the cows speak for themselves