PsyOps Here in the UK

 http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1232432,00.html

The reason for the increase in MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain)training is because the future battles the MoD, DoD etc expect to fight are different to the ones they have trained for in the past.

NATO training has always been based on having to fight massed tank and infrantry advances by Soviet troops across the North German plain. Open ground fighting where it was hoped air superiority would make up for the massive Warsaw Pact advantages in tank numbers (20 to 1 in 1984). This was illustrated in the first Gulf War where Iraqi forces using Soviet fighting doctrine were defeated by air power.

Recent conflicts have seen a greater about of urban confrontation where the individual bomber and sniper can be far more effective than in the open arena. In the past urban based threats would have been dealt with by localised artillery attacks (as by Soviet forces against Berlin at the end of WW2 for example) however this is of course unacceptable today. In the past the British Army has achieved this type of training by passing most Regiments through Northern Ireland on a regular basis however with the reduction in conflict there (thanks to John Major for that one) specialised training is required

Expect to see more and more "town" training.

MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain)! Bollocks. Fuckin Americans. When I was serving in the British army this was called FIBUA (Fighting In a Built-Up Area).

The wars of the future will be more urban, of course. They will be happening in western countries as the governments become rapidly more like a tyranny. They will be against dissenting citizens.

Unfortunatly my research is a bit insufficient but in the US, we always follow the US. These exercises have included soldiers going against its own citizens, preparing warehouses as makeshift detention centres (like in Genoa), a policeman even shot 2 soldiers when they tryed to disarm him. The military has also been conducting house searches while pretending to be the police, they have conducted swoop exercises on schools with live ammo and ended up killing each other.

The general trend is disturbing. It seems that (near) future wars will be faught over the freedoms of western citizens to dissent against governments, wars between our liberities and our supposed security. A cover for future tyranny? The question has to be asked.

that these dopes could have secured all food supplies by having emergency back-up
fuel depots on-site at food sources...and other important sites such as
emergency services...

as we can observe : they are being seriously compromised


Why?
it suits them to train the troops...

[remember foot & mouth]

scary this emergency contingency planning hasn't happened already...
isn't it?

this training exercise is something more... i can smell it...

The Saudi bombs have had so many useful side effects!!!


some Nato armies trained for guerilla insurgency
and counter insurgency as agent provocatuers
as a 'stay behind secret operation'

a politically useful tool

I wonder which fuel protester is a government operative
forcing an issue to test the troops?

after all the last time they managed to get a couple of pence off the price
and then they whacked on yet another tax!!!

everyone said
OH OK...dur!!!
what was gained from that?

You are right the MOUT acronim is American, but then I am a former American soldier although I served with the British Army in Germany and now live in the UK.

What this action is called does not matter I was adressing the issue of why it is happening. Do you have a comment on that ?

ex soldier,

It sounds like you still have plenty of deprograming to get through, you are still spouting the kind of military near-lies that convince the PBI (poor bloody infantry) that they are doing a good job.

Your veneration of John Major and the credit you give him for the cessation of hostilities in Northern Ireland shows more than a little naivety, he is a warmonger and as a director of the Carlyle Group benefits from every flesh-tearing shell which their portfolio of companies produce.

You need more coffee and plenty of exercise. It takes more than a few months to see through the Ministry of Truth.

As for why it is happening, why, military dictatorship of course! Only one which is legitimised by a five-yearly squabble about who is going to hold the conch. I can't believe I actually had to spell it out!

ex serviceman (10 in 18 out)

I can't comment on the army sections of these postings but I can on the influence of John Major and the current situation in Northern Ireland. At the time of the end of his period as Prime Minister I was working at The Guardian. I saw much of the background information and without doubt is role was crucial in getting the Republicans to the table. Indeed after Blair became PM Major continued with a number of visits to Belfast and Dublin. Major may not have been a very good PM but on this one issue we all owe him thanks.

As if all anyone used to think about was "Tanks on the North German plain" What a hoot!!! Ever heard of Northern Ireland, Mr. "ex-soldier"? (OK, Your ex-American Army. So talk about that and shaddap about things yr totally pig-ignorant of. Like Britain.)
Now,
FIBUA (Fighting in a built up area) training has ALWAYS been part of the basic infantry package in the British army.Pre-cold war and since. That's why we've got mock-up buildings, estates, towns etc. for soldiers to train in, traditionally out in the back of beyond, where they can scuttle from block to block, clear houses etc., without obtruding upon public life.
This is the first I've personally heard of these new exercise measures, but if they're real, you can bet yr boots there's a political motivation. And those behind it will no doubt have taken into account the effect on relations between state security personnel and the general public. (For a taste of this as matters stand now, go and live in a squaddie town for a couple of weeks and see for yrself. Then imagine that all the time, everywhere...)

I am surprised that "Jimbo" claims to be a soldier and then dismisses the role of preparing for the Soviet attack accross Germany. The British Army on the Rhine (BAOR) was the major spender of non nuclear funds from 1947 to 1988. The role of UK forces in Northen Ireland was indeed substantial but nowhere near as important as preparing for the Soviet Attack. The RAF for example had no plan for the defence of the UK in a Batle of Britain style fight because it knew its sole role was to support NATO land forces with ground attack aircraft

He should know that massing of tanks by Warsaw Pact forces around the time of German public holidays was common.

Has he never heard of "Operation Alsatian" that would have commited some 80% of UK land forces to slowing the Soviet advance to allow the politicians the time to consider the nuclear option.

I realise that there are some now contributing to Indy Media who are not old enough to remember the daily threat posed by the old Soviet Union (and its subjects). For those of us that faced that threat in the expectation of a two hour fighting life it was very real.

Firstly, to Rachel, working at The Guardian doesn't quite cut the mustard anymore. If there was any credibility left in the paper, it has been shredded over the past eighteen months. And are you so dim as to think that whatever Major was doing in the photos, any initiative belonged elsewhere. I just hope you aren't the condescending cow at The Guardian that spoke to my friend last year about our humanitarian trip to Iraq.

To Jimbo, it isn't about training the soldiers, it's about training civilians. To normalise the presence of troops on the streets. What is more, many of these operations don't involve British troops. There are numerous reports of foriegn troops exercising in British towns and US cities, not to mention the obvious US/UK exercises all over the place. Here is the only relevent link I can find at the moment. This was sent to me by a friend who lives in Port William, who was stopped:

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3131058.stm

Im glad there are some people interested in this, the info on the mock towns is very useful in highlighting the fact that this is about tyranny.

If you can imagine troops on our streets imagine further to not having an ID entitlement card. Your banged up for sure.

This nightmare situation is being intoduced in the US, remember we always follow them. School children do not get meals without a swipe card in some US schools, this is just the begining.

Quenetic is the company, associated with Caryle (which is invested in by the bin-Ladens), which is going to introduce ID cards to the UK.

Please read more about WW3

 http://www.bilderberg.org/wwiii.htm#Q

To Staff Rogers: Read my post again;- You'll find nothing in it that diminishes or trivialises the real fears of the cold war. Or disrespects those wounded or killed through the crimes of govenments. What it says is that Tanks in Eastern Europe is not THE ONLY THING that was on the British Army's mind at that time - as Mr "ex-soldier" makes out. As such, the reason for making soldiers train in our towns and cities now (if indeed they are to do) can't be that urban warfare is some sudden new thing - as, again, our soldier blue suggests. As I say it's politically motivated. I agree with "ex- serviceman" when he says it's about traing civillians - the public. But not when he suggests that this runs counter to my arguments. One can rarely see where these things will go so let's not try and sum up, too pat and neat, what it's "about", (with a full stop.)Notwithstanding, I think it's at least partly to do with "training" both soldier and civillian to adopt a new relationship with regard to one another. No doubt there'll be a lot of co-operation, hearts and minds, etc. But no doubt also, There'll be a level of antagonism, opposition and an organised programme for it. Till now, the boys have trained in the hulu. Bring them in to town and you draw a line in the sand. Deliberately.

I feel we need to confront the military by educating the soldiers who may take our rights away, as has already happened in Scotland, that this kind of activity is not in our or their interests.

Are there any such groups run by ex-military or current military who could really stir up debate and dissent amoungst the troops.

Army journals etc.

freedom as a state of mind

take time to consider that the so-called freedom being defended was in reality just
a different form of tyranny to the eastern Block

would it be safe to assume that The majority in the Eastern Block knew that
they were being watched, knew that they HAD to love the state
and knew that the shite that they were doled out was PROPAGANDA...

[military might, Stasi, space race, community farming etc]

conversly the notion of freedom pushed by the west

[Levis and coca cola ,macdonalds, advertising , hollywood..military might as defensive world peacekeepers.]

was a war of ideas an advert for a non-existant freedom which was
[and still is] a double-edged offensive of jealosy inducement
on 'the enemys of freedom' and 'un-modernised culture'
and a dumbing down tool of indoctrination, distraction
and ultimately control at home...

Freedom is an abstract notion with some people being more free-er than others.
it is not an absolute, or something that states can own power over...
they have no right in saying they can grant us human rights
These rights belong to NO ONE but ourselves as humans on planet earth!!!

What f**king year is this again?
as Bush is basically allowed to announce he has no laws to stop him
torturing & invading whatever area of the globe which is of interest to the
G8 / Carlyle / Bilderberger / WEF / mercenary Pentagon NUTSO corporate asset rapers...

-------------------------------------------------------------
"In order to respect the president's inherent constitutional authority to manage a military campaign ... (the prohibition against torture) must be construed as inapplicable to interrogations undertaken pursuant to his commander-in chief authority…


Sometimes the greater good for society will be accomplished by violating the literal language of the criminal law…In particular, the necessity defense can justify the intentional killing of one person ... so long as the harm avoided is greater."
 http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/06/06_506.html
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all for the sake of an unseen enemy...who at the moment is called Al queda

[as Al Zakarwi is namechecked as the daily terror threat on the News media...
busy guy, huh?]

Bush is the new HITLER

I want my jetpack!!!
get me off this dumb ass planet now!!!

For Fucks Sake,

The USSR was *never* going to invade Europe. Period. It created the East European "buffer states" after WWII as it was shattered as a nation (it had a spot of bother fighting off a Nazi invasion) and could not afford to risk a newly-hostile West trying to do it all over again.

The elderly bureaucrats who ran the USSR had enough on their plate keeping these satellite states in order and trying to rebuild their country without cooking up pie in the sky plans for a European conquest.

The Iraq debacle (and the USSR in Afghanistan, come to that) shows how much hassle is involved in occupying even one country, let alone an entirely unwilling continent such as Western Europe. Do the maths.

Sorry, Squaddie-boy. You and all your comrades were misinformed. Just pawns in the game and all that. Soz.