See the imc-uk-features list for the discussion:

 http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2004-May/thread.html

The thread starts here:

 http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2004-May/005615.html

Thank you Chris, I followed your link and found the following:

Report from M&S Picket seems to celebrate the killing
> of Israeli soldiers: "after the heroic killing of 6
> Zionist soldiers"
>
> It is one thing to report killings, another to
> celebrate them. We certainly would remove a post by
> pro-imperialists celebrating Iraqi deaths -
>
> what does everyone else think should this be hidden?

Agreed, for exactly the reasons you gave above.

A comment should be appended to the article stating why it's been hidden.

VTI don't do themselves many favours, do they.


Except that I don't really get the comparison between the killing of Zionists and that of Iraqis. Surely a better comparison would be with Iragis killing occupying US or UK troops. If you would accept that the Iraqi resistance killing them is legitimate, surely you have to accept that the Palestinian resistance killing Zionist troops is the same. Not having seen the original posting, I can't comment on its phrasing but if it is removed on the basis stated this seems to be wrong.

Ok, I'm getting to the root of it. Never having tried to look into the internal workings of indymedia before I couldn't find the original article first off. Now I have done and my first instint seems to be have been what I still think. Someone called Geoff says:

'Unlike the Iraqi prisoners (or any prisoners for that matter including U.S or British) the killing of Zionist soldiers in combat can reasonably be seen as an heroic act, even though there is nothing heroic of the parading of the bodies afterwards. These people killed were not civilians. They are brutal occupying soldiers of the world's 4th biggest army - armed to the teeth. They have caused untold suffering and misery to the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people are not only right and justified to carry out such missions but against the odds they face it is indeed an heroic act. Such sacrifices against the Nazis where of course heralded by the media in Britain, Russia and the U.S as being heroic and have become folklore. What the Palestinians are fighting against is little different. If any racist Zionists or wishy-washy middle class liberals have a problem with understanding this, then tough.'

However whoever 'Radical Penguin' is I don't think he has anything to do with VTI, whereas 'The inappropriate responder' and 'The voice of reason' are, as you have probably sussed by now, members of Betar Tagar, who attend the Zionist counter picket to the M&S demos.

I dare say that you may hide this thread for being a discussion rather than a news item. I can understand this but it will be a shame as I think that this actually highlights a serious political discussion about different types of 'violence' and different ypes of 'nationalism' even. On anything other than the very personalised scale, it can't be seen in the same terms when oppressed people kill their oppressors as when the oppressors kill the oppressed.

As one of the people who thought that the article should have been hidden, can I just make a point on the immediate comment above. By hiding the article above, I (at least) didn't pass judgement on the legitimacy (or not) of the Palestinian reponse to IDF violence. That is I proposed the article was hidden because of the triumphalist reporting of the Israeli deaths, rather than the deaths themselves. I personally think that using violence against violent incursions into refugee camps by the IDF is legitimate, but that wasn't the point.

This handling of such an incident will show the world what stupidities anarchists will fall for. I used to count myself as an anarcho-syndicalist but have since become an apostate of the Left and work with apostates of Islam. I'm damn proud of it too. Shame on you! I've seen this coming for years. If any anarchists really want to debate Islam then go to faithfreedom.org Forget about mostlywater or flagblackened and especialy zmag.

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