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This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Covert censorship on IMC-UK

Tom | 14.04.2004 12:44

Three posts from some zionist nutters have dissapeared from here:  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/289031.html

Whats going on here? I didn't agree with the missing posts but that doesn't mean they should be airbrushed from history. They don't even appear in the 'view all posts' section of the site. Its all a bit Stalinist and undermines the whole point of indymedia.

Any IMC'ers want to comment? Is this normal practice/policy or a one-off? What was that Volraire quote 'I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it'. Censorship Stinks and undermines my trust in the otherwise valuble resource that is IMC-UK.

Tom

Tom

Comments

Hide the following 11 comments

Non-news

14.04.2004 12:47

The newswire is for news and analysis of current events.

If you have a question about editorial policy, please email us:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/static/contact.html

cheers

An IMCer

Stalin rules

14.04.2004 12:53


Why are there no capitalist penguins in history, only poley bears? Even in Canada?

Mad Ted
mail e-mail: madted@riseup.net

Why hide this

14.04.2004 15:28

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/289222.html

Sinner

Non-news

14.04.2004 16:18

Editorial guidelines:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/static/editorial.html

cheers

An IMCer

Its News to me!

14.04.2004 19:55

The fact an open publishing site that i have trusted is censoring opinions (that I happen to vehemently oppose) to the point of removing ALL TRACE of posts even from the 'view all posts' section is certainly news to users of this site. Why not leave the posts on the 'view all posts' section so people can choose to see them or not?

Would it be non-news if the BBC was censoring the views of supporters of Palestine for example? That's the kind of story that would presumably (if backed up by evidence) be big here and generate much interest. That's one of the kind of stories I turn to IMC for since we wouldn't hear it in the mainstream.

What is the IMC-UK definition of news?

Whatever happened to 'don't trust the media - be the media!'???

Tom

If you have a question about editorial policy...

14.04.2004 19:58

...please email us:

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/static/contact.html

cheers

An IMCer

I've emailed IMC-UK, heres a copy for the record

14.04.2004 22:01

I have sent the following email to  imc-uk-contact@lists.indymedia.org - I look forward to hearing from someone.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hello,

As a committed pro-palestine activist i find myself in the curious position of defending the free speech of some zionist nutters, but here we go . . .

Why were 3 posts removed WITHOUT TRACE from this thread?

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/289031.html

The missing posts were by zionists enquiring about, (then replying) the Betar counter-picket outside M&S in Oxford Street. THEY WERE NOT EVEN AVAILABLE ON THE 'VIEW ALL POSTS' PAGE. This appears in contradiction to the IMC-UK editorial guidelines which state: "All posts, hidden and showing can be seen in the View all posts page."

Perhaps these posts could be construed as racist or xenophobic, and so be hidden under the editorial guidelines. However, the 'airbrushing' of them from the site seems to have more in common with Stalinism than the ideals of the IMC-UK project.

What's going on?

Tom
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom
mail e-mail: tomgittoes@hotmail.com

hi tom,

15.04.2004 00:53

i don't know who has hidden the comments on article 289031 but it looks to me that whoever did it was right - this thread started to get out of hand as a lot of threads did before when a right wing pro-israel website littlegreenfootball.com started linking to articles about rachel corrie, the ism and base blockades.

the bottom line for me is that indymedia is *NOT* a free speech site. please note the mission statement: "Indymedia UK does not attempt to take an objective and impartial standpoint: Indymedia UK clearly states its subjectivity."

i'd also prefer the hidden comments to show in the view-all-posts page, but it is one of the many issues that hasn't been sorted after the migration to our new codebase, and it's on our ToDo list, see  http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/UkMirToDo if you help out to sort things on that list you're welcome to do so!

this site is run by volunteers on no money. critique is welcome but people will react more positively if you'd show some respect and not immediately shoot from the hip with words like "stalinist" or "If this isn't cleared up it will be the death of IMC". if you want to debate about this then the features list is the right place, and not to imcuk-contact, and refrain from posting it on the newswire as you did on  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/289242.html

cheers

andi
mail e-mail: andi@syndicate.org.uk
- Homepage: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2004-April/005379.html

Hi, Andi

15.04.2004 07:04

Thanks for the reply,

My concern was not so much with the censorship per se but with the complete dissappearance of the posts, even from the 'view all posts' section. Since this is a technical issue, the word 'Stalinist' was unnecessarily emotive, and misplaced. I do understand why indymedia has, and utilises the capability for removal of posts, otherwise the site would be rendered useless by trolls. I was actually on the receiving end of some of the right-wing pro-israel venom when I took part in the recent CAT action - there were some really sick comments made then.

Perhaps the temporary solution is simply to add a line of text on the editorial guidelines page saying "at present hidden posts are unavailable in the 'view all posts' section for technical reasons." The reason I posted on the newswire was because it wasn't clear which email address to use regarding editorial policy - the features list email purports to relate to the centre column only. Unfortunately I lack the technical skills to help out with these issues - I do appreciate that IMC-UK is run by volunteers. The reason I was so concerned was because I find Indymedia a valuble resource and feared that covert censorship of adverse opinions is the beginnings of the 'power corrupts' scenario . . . It appears I was mistaken,

Tom

Tom
mail e-mail: tomgittoes@hotmail.com

Reply to Tom

15.04.2004 10:20

Hi,

The fact that hidden comments are not available anywhere
has been entered into the bug tracker:

 https://codecoop.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=52&group_id=7&atid=109

IMC'er [Posted by Tom]

Re: Why hide this

15.04.2004 13:56

This article ( http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/289222.html), although mainly about how religion is USED to wage wars, covers the current problems in Palestinian and Iraq. It speaks of suicide bombers, and the possible future plans of Bush/Kerry. It talks of the so-called war on terrorism that has captured the attention of the entire world in case you hadn't noticed. In fact it could not be more relevent to what is happening in the news if it bloody well tried !!!

Perhaps you can explain the logic in removing the above article whilst allowing articles like this: ( http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/289193.html) all about an alleged 'rubbish bin art decoration competition' to remain on the "newswire".

"Non-news" my arse...

Whats happening to IMC ?