What a waste of time Repsect is. It's just a liberal coalition of middle class 'radicals' and the RMT have been duped into supporting them. They will advance nothing except the egos of the leaders: Galloway, Lyndsey German, John Rees etc.

The Green Party also supports the RMT action, with other local RMT branches in contact with the Green Party about funding. Bob Crow gave a keynote address at the Green Party's last conference. The Green Party's No 1 Euro candidate is a Professor of Sustainable Transport and is well qualified to argue the Green/Left case for nationalisation.

As this election approaches it is clear Respect is not going to go from 0 to 8% this region in just six months. The Greens can win a seat (and keep the BNP in 5th place) by going from 6 to 8%+. The Greens and Respect have a lot in common, so let's hope they are not competing with each other for much longer, so we can have a credible challenge to pro-war Labour MPs in 2005.

Apologies to Indymedia readers for the (inevitable) political bias in this response.

More debate at www.socialistunitynetwork.co.uk

The above commentator, "for the working class", sounds like a bigoted inverted snob to me. His sneering comments about "middle class" poeple are an insult to the memory of people like Tom Hurndall. He was definitely middle class--the son of a solicitor--but he gave his life in the cause of Palestinian liberation. There are many more like him--middle class students or ex-students--who are over there in occupied Palestine right now risking their lives.

His comments are also an insult to the intelligence of members of the RMT. These people have been at the sharp edge of the fight against privatisation and they are currently striking against vicious attacks on their working conditions. Trades unionists with a record like that are not stupid--as "for the working class" seems to be implying. They obviously know what the score is and have minds of their own. They voted to support RESPECT because they agree with it.

Lastly, since when has organising a huge campaign to challenge the BNP on the electoral terrain--which is what RESPECT is doing--been a "waste of time"? You are talking nonsense.

What is "for the working class" doing to stop the BNP leader becoming the MEP for the North West?

"For the working class" is simply wrong to say that RESPECT is made up of middle class liberals.

One of the most well known members of the RESPECT in Manchester is Ron Sancek, an American Vietnam war veteran, who is today a UNISON shop steward and was previously a leader of the bitterly fought Revell and George printworkers strike. There are others like him.

Firstly, Pingupete, RESPECT is not starting from zero. One of its candidates in the North West was elected as a Socialist Alliance councillor last year--beating NEW Labour. It is also allied with the Scottish Socalist Party which has many MEPs and councillors in Scotland

Secondly, as I understand it, RESPECT approached the Greens earlier this year to proopse a joint electoral campaign and the Greens turned it down.

RESPECT does at least have a Member of Parliament, George Galloway. As far as I am aware, the Greens don't have one.

Nevertheless, there should be a joint RESPECT-Green election campaign--it is really so difficult to establish an agreement not to stand against each other's candidates?

Are we incapable of even doing that?

We must avoid the farce of the Brent East bye election where half a dozen lefties were standing against each other. The BNP has got its act together--when is the left going to do the same???

I am glad this is provoking so much debate.

No one is saying that Respect don't have support. Michael Lavalette did brilliantly to get elected in Preston, but he is just 1 councillor compared to 9 Greens in the North West. I've also found that if you point out that Socialist Labour got just 12,000 votes in 1999 (they were the biggest "left" group) this tends to result in blame and division.

Yes, Respect have an MP, but he wasn't elected as Respect. In their own right, the Greens have got two European MPs and need an extra 2% or so (depending on the results of other parties) to get one in the North West. We need to deal with political reality.

Deals have been done elsewhere - why stand against Caroline Lucas? Why risk letting the BNP get elected in the NW? Respect stood down for the SSP, because it was the right thing to do. The SSP are an established party with support, and Respect splitting the vote in Scotland would have been very bad. Why not elsewhere?

In the North West, the Greens approached the old Liberal Party last year, while Respect was not even a gleam in GG's eye, to discuss how to prevent the BNP getting in. The Liberal command a loyal support of 20,000 in the North West and if a deal had been struck it would have ensured that the BNP would not have been in the running.

It's not as though the Greens don't do deals. In the South West region, Mebyon Kernow (Party of Cornwall) stood down for the Green list in exchange for Green support at a parliamentary and local level. The Greens need just 1.5% to get an MEP there.

If the racists do end up getting in, it is not for want of trying on the part of the Greens. We are lucky that many people are concerned about GM foods because that is going to get the Greens ahead of the BNP, hopefully with the support of many principled socialists who realise that there are hard choices to be made in this region.

And I'm not trying to have a go at Respect. I work with both Respect and Green activists in the anti-racism movement. I just think we need to make people aware of the difficult choice they have to make, because the BNP haven't gone away just because it is a postal ballot. If Respect are higher than the Greens in the polls come May 27th, my vote would be for them, but the reality is that it will be the Greens that are the only party able to beat the BNP and force them into 5th place.

Respect is a complete waste of time. How and why do so called revolutionaries still believe that the parliamentary system can change things? here is Liverpool Militant learned that lesson twenty years ago - encouraging the standing of people in elections and the encouraging people to vote for them - gets away from the fundamental issue that only when the mass of people realize that they must participate and take action themselves will things change. That is the reality. No matter how many decent people may be involved in respect - that is the reality. How many times will we let others pretend to represent us.
wake up and grow up - we don't live in a democracy and the sooner we realize that 'respect' and the rest of the left the quicker we can build the movement that will truly rattle the fences and brains of the powerful
powerful

What are you doing to stop him? Stop bickering and get off your backsides and DO something.

fuck off with respect you fucking wankers.
your not ;down with the kids' your pathetic, with your little minuture beaurocracy and fucking wank badges. your not changing SHIT.
fuck fuck fuck right off.

nb. please kep this on, its angry...but also true, giving it the 'edge'

Respect will end up going the same way as the Socialist Alliance. That fell apart because people got pissed off with the control freaks of the SWP running it. It will be the same with Respect. John Rees is standing where I live but there's no way I'll vote for him (in case you don't know, he's the leader of the SWP). They want to control people as much as Labour do. Just the fact that they pretend to want as many like-minded people as possible winning seats but then stand against Green MEPs shows where they are coming from. And as for Lindsey German possibly standing for Mayor???? If they were serious and didn't have to deal with the huge egos of folk like George Galloway, they would concentrate their efforts in getting rid of the bad guys. There's no point in standing against Labour rebels, Greens, etc.

The country is in dire need of an alternative to New Labour that doesn't let the Tories back in. But Respect ain't it.

More precisely it seems that the Respect coalition will be aiming to pick up middle class voters of a liberal persuasion, similar to the Greens. Although they'll go on about privatisation and pensions etc, they'll make the same inroads into the working class that the Socialist Alliance did. Ordinary people won't go to the polls to vote against the war and for the liberation of Palestine etc. They'll vote for the people who will stop yobs terrorising their neighbourhoods, crack down on the drug-dealers in the alleyways, make sure pensioners can go to the shops without getting mugged, make sure there is decent, adequate housing, make sure regeneration money is spent properly. The Independent Working Class Association is doing this. Plus it doesn't rely on big name celevrities like Galloway/Ken Loach, winning over the mosques and handing out leaflets, to get support. It puts consistent, hard graft in at a grassroots level, campaigning on the issues that voters want dealt with. That's why it gets an average of 25% of the vote in local elections.

 http://www.iwca.info/

What I find worrying about this thread is that everyone seems to be belittling everyone else’s achievements.

For example it is a bit disingenuous for Chris to claim that RMT branches are backing RESPECT simply because it is somehow much more credible than the Socialist Alliance was. The truth is that the rule change in the RMT happened just before the launch of Respect, so it was impossible before then for RMT branches to support the SA.

Anyway, if you check the left press – for example Socialist Worker just because back issues are available on the web that far back so you can check I am not making this up – during the last GLA elections in London a GMB branch backed on of the SA candidates then, and so did a CWU branch.

I hope Respect does well – but Chris and others have to recognise that it will not get the support of the left – and particularly the RMT executive that still has to approve these branch decisions – by simply proclaiming itself the answer to all our prayers.

Similarly, this old chestnut of Caroline Lucas. The offer made to the Greens by Respect was that there would be a joint slate, with Caroline at the head of it. If anything this would have made her chances of re-election better not worse. In my opinion the Greens backed Respect into a corner because they need to stand in all Euro-constituencies to get an election broadcast. I think the blame for this situation lies with the Greens – and as I understand it Caroline herself backed the joint slate idea.

Naomi clearly has not studied how the d’Hondt system electoral works. Posing an electoral challenge in these Euro elections actually makes it more likely that the BNP will win, unless your candidate gets more votes than the BNP. Now I don’t think we can hold either the Greens or Respect responsible if people vote for the BNP. The responsibility for the racist climate lies with the establishment parties who have whipped up racism over asylum, etc. But I think Respect supporters need to take this argument a lot more seriously. And yes there is a debate about this on the Socialist unity webpage - with contributions from socialists and greens.  http://www.socialistunitynetwork.co.uk

I also think we need to look at why the BNP appeals to some voters. It is not just racism, it is also because they are very clearly anti-establishment, and they tap into the sence of betrayal people feel about the political establishment. If we are to beat the BNP we need to address the hopelessness and the despair that they feed on – obviously we need to smash their racist arguments – but we need radical answers ourselves to the social problems. The greens don’t seem to offer much to people on sink estates – although I agree with many (most?) of their policies – they do come over as a bit sandals and hand-knitted jumpers (not that I have anything against those fashion choices but I cannot see many people thinking – who shall I vote for, the BNP or the Greens.)

On the other hand I know from personal experience that in some areas, where the Socialist Alliance has done the sort of consistent work “realistic” admires, but with slightly less populist policies than the IWCA, that SA has attracted votes that would have otherwise gone to the BNP. But it is not clear to me whether Respect will be able to do the same – partly because its campaign all seems a bit pre-packaged and corporate – and partly because they are simply not going to be out on the working class estates talking to people face to face – which is how minority parties gain a foothold.

I have no particular truck with IWCA – but they can rightly say that they have proven their approach works in practice by winning Blackbird Leys in Oxford away from Labour – by hard graft over years.

So – lets have less posturing – and less “my dad’s bigger than you dad” arguments.