Well it's good to know that when bombs are going off in Spain, the NHS is in crisis, funding for education is in peril and the world faces the gravest threat to its security and safety since 1945 someone can still find the time to organise a Gender Equality Meeting.

The 1980's are over, women have moved on - for God's sake grow up and join the 21st Century

sophie you may think the worlds has moved on but you are very wrong. In the UK women get paid much less than men in equivalent jobs, we still have to put up with being groped at the bar or on the tube, school education ignores or skims over womens roles in history, etc etc etc. around the world women are treating even more appalingly.

your denial of the inequality of women, the hate crimes perpetrated against women, the struggles of women, throughout history and continuing even today, is much akin to denying racism. make an attempt to learn about a subject before you criticize or deny it.



dont be so ignorant.

do you really believe that there is equality?

as for saying because bombs kill people in spain and the nhs aint ace people should not discuss gender - I mean blimey listen to what your're saying!

good grief.

Stop being a victim. All you talk about was out of date 10 years ago. I don't wish to be rude but women of my age do not see what you see. Are you perhaps of my mum's generation and therefore seeing this as it was some years ago.

We just don't experience what is listed here. We are equal and we stand up for our rights.

I can only say find a more relevent battle to fight.

Either you are being purposefully stupid or you do actually live under a rock.

Maybe you should read this thread on street harrasment on u75:
 http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=69524&highlight=harrasment

If you call that equality you live in a very strange world.

Smash Patriarchy ~ Smash Capitalism

im in my twenties.

but now i understand why you are so ignorant. you're still a kid! which is a pretty good excuse i'll admit. go and learn about which you speak and try not to be so bloody disrespectful.

the reason feminists are still here is because women are still treated in an inferior way all round the world. improvements have been made, great things have been done, but we are far from equality.

as for being victims, feminists are about getting out there, finding the problems, solving the problems, and having a fair world. victims just sit around denying whats happening to them. i think you fit that bracket rather well.

your generation of women is entirely repressed. some examples:

hip hop - mostly male mcs, mostly male producers, mostly male djs, mostly male bboys... where do the women come in? mostly stood around in a bikini shaking their ass, occasionally guest singing over some man-made track.

sports - when was the last time you saw womens sports on the television, or the results in the paper? the only ones that get shown are tennis and gymnastics i.e. the ones where very young girls jump around in leotards or run around in skirts that dont reach their arse.

history - you obviously know very little about your own heritage, as a woman, because in school you get taught the history of Man, and somehow all the important discoveries and steps forward that women make are skimmed over at best.

movies - when was the last time you saw a movie produced/written/directed by a woman? yet there are many women out there making movies - unfortunately nobody is willing to fund movies about or by women, so its unlikely you'll see many at your local cinema or video shop.

obviously there are a million examples but i figure these four might be something you could research into yourself without getting too bored. these four items are also subjects that my group will be studying, so that we can help local women (younger and older) with training, education and help to break into these popular yet (unofficially) men-only areas, and to understand their own heritage and abilities. i dont call that being a victim - i call that solidarity and empowerment.

im in my twenties.

but now i understand why you are so ignorant. you're still a kid! which is a pretty good excuse i'll admit. go and learn about which you speak and try not to be so bloody disrespectful.

the reason feminists are still here is because women are still treated in an inferior way all round the world. improvements have been made, great things have been done, but we are far from equality.

as for being victims, feminists are about getting out there, finding the problems, solving the problems, and having a fair world. victims just sit around denying whats happening to them. i think you fit that bracket rather well.

your generation of women is entirely repressed. some examples:

hip hop - mostly male mcs, mostly male producers, mostly male djs, mostly male bboys... where do the women come in? mostly stood around in a bikini shaking their ass, occasionally guest singing over some man-made track.

sports - when was the last time you saw womens sports on the television, or the results in the paper? the only ones that get shown are tennis and gymnastics i.e. the ones where very young girls jump around in leotards or run around in skirts that dont reach their arse.

history - you obviously know very little about your own heritage, as a woman, because in school you get taught the history of Man, and somehow all the important discoveries and steps forward that women make are skimmed over at best.

movies - when was the last time you saw a movie produced/written/directed by a woman? yet there are many women out there making movies - unfortunately nobody is willing to fund movies about or by women, so its unlikely you'll see many at your local cinema or video shop.

obviously there are a million examples but i figure these four might be something you could research into yourself without getting too bored. these four items are also subjects that my group will be studying, so that we can help local women (younger and older) with training, education and help to break into these popular yet (unofficially) men-only areas, and to understand their own heritage and abilities. i dont call that being a victim - i call that solidarity and empowerment.

btw yes you are being rude. if you want to talk about the point of feminism the least you could do is learn a little about it first. as for the state of the NHS, where men are the majority of well paid doctors and women are the majority of undervalued underpaid nurses, as well as the pathetically paid care workers, perhaps the fact that this country values 'womens work' so little is part of the problem? ditto for the school system, where men are still the majority of well paid headteachers and women, surprise! are the majority of undervalued underpaid teachers. and how about our political system, where women are hugely unrepresented. yes the bombs in madrid are terrible, the result of (dare i say it) mens repression of other, poorer, men (its a class issue too)...

shopw me a problem, i'll show you the gender (and class) bias. you cant solve the problems until see the roots. dont live in denial, dont be a victim.

My god we're the same age ! I'm 24 and yet from reading your posts I presumed you were in the your 40's. Sorry.

I can only tell you how I feel, I and all my friends, a cross section of students, proffesional women and those unwaged all feel the seem we are equal and we don't face gender issues day to day.

As for your comments about things like hip hop - please who cares about crappy American music. The NHS ? Well my two doctor friends will tell you there are now more women coming into the profession than men and there is no discrimination and hasn't been for years.

There are more important things to worry about. I do not now and never in the past have I faced a gender related issue that I wasn't able to deal with, is it possiblwe you are seeing a problem that just doesn't exist ?

well ditto, i assumed from your own posts that you were under fifteen. i dont have time to reply now, but like i said before, do you want to do some research and educate yourself a little before you deny gender inequality exists? you didnt answer, but am i to assume that you also think racism doesnt exist any more, perhaps you feel there are no longer any class divides?


im sorry sophie, but you really are too old to be this ignorant. and if you insist on staying that way, could you please refrain from slagging off other womens moves for empowerment and equality? if we want to stand up for ourselves when we feel there is injustice, who are you to deny us that? there were women like you, in denial, when other women gained us the vote, the right to education, the right to higher education, the right to wear what we like, the right etc etc etc

your have all of half a dozen people attending your important meeting - notice of which has no danger of being removed here ... meanwhile comments, articles and information dwelling on global destruction, piracy, facist secret agendas etc etc are regularly removed ignored and censored.

its just this kind of liberal divisive boring partonising (sorry matronising) nonsense that eats up time space and peoples will and sense of urgency, casualy deflecting good intentions and energy and eventually endlessly spliting groups into mini replicas of the picture capitalism paints for all of us.

generalisations are useless, specifics are isolated from the conditions that produced them and in the end all you acheive is moaning and resentment ... then again it semms that the great imc project is rapidly heading that way, what with spook intervention and sabotage, pc indifference and policing, narrow ideas and concepts about left leaning thinking and general inertia when it comes to talking about reality (as in what really is happening - global facist takeover).

becuase sophie doesn't feel oppressed she ain't a proper informed sista???

fantastic - go through all the mistakes the previous generations of 'resisters' did - and end up in the same place, a bunch of marginalised hippies or marketing executives with a day glow past.

fucking middle class wankers kill everything they let their hearts bleed over.

go girls!

nothing I love more than a few bitches getting dirty in a tangle.
more, more, pull some hair, scratch at those eyes,
maybe tear some clothes off and slap some arse!

wicked. getting hard just thinking about it.

now this thread is heating up we'll see some real gender equality whent the boyz get here.



just teasing, no gender bias here is there ?

It's bloody obvious (oops, gender biased use of laguage) that gender inequality in this country is still a major issue. Just a few minutes of observation of billboards or the papers will establish the fact. And as for the rest of the world...

some answers to karen - i object to sophies denial of a massive problem. im not middle class - and i see the oppression of the women around me. sophie doesnt - she is more bothered about top up fees. hmmm, wonder which of us is middle class? she isnt being denied a place next to us, she is denying it herself. if and when she becomes enlightened, im sure she will be welcomed. if she ever finds herself in trouble, there will be women she can turn to, at womens aid, at rape crisis, if she is dismissed wrongly or paid unfair wages at work, there are womens groups everywhere working for her, for you, and for me. how can you be so appalingly rude?

we are trying to do something positive down here. sophie is badly uneducated in this area, i have asked her either not to comment on something she knows so little about, or to do a bit of research first. we dont see feminists as a minority of women, whether you're active in projects to empower women or not, if you believe women have equal value to men then you're a feminist in my book. unfortunately it seems some women who have attained equality (or think they have) are very quick to stamp on the rest of us, betraying the women who worked so hard for her to have the opportunities she does.

maybe you want to deny the issues facing us in the UK, then i consider you blind. can you also deny the issues facing women - specifically women - around the world? are you that stupid? maybe certain middle class women think they have equality, because they have money in the bank or a decent job, but they need to realise they are a minority group. and heres a fact - if those women have children, or divorce, the majority of them will slip down the social ladder pretty quickly. yet men that divorce or have children dont, by and large, suffer this problem. most women find it much harder to be taken seriously or treated equally in the workplace, at every level.

i disagree with our class system, i hate it and would love to see it shattered. even within our class system, the differences of race and gender still have a huge impact on our lives. it is injustice piled upon injustice. we know there are mountains to overcome, and we intend to take on a few. if we inspire some self confidence in the women around us, if we can improve their opportunities and enable them to be heard instead of ignored, then we are doing a great job. it may be small steps, but at least we're doing SOMETHING. what are you doing?

what the fuck are you doing for third world women by holding a little meeting.

you make me laugh - think your changing the world by moaning about it!

men and women are different - haven't you noticed?

the problems that women face are different to that of men, but they share one very obvious similarity - the fact that capitalism attempts to trivialise and atomise their existance with shopping and division.

feel free to raise the consciousness of a few local women and then drift away as the pattern of your controled lives dictate that you return to pampering yourselves with the huge amount of productisation that are aimed diliberatly at the heart of female identity.

there is no gender equality, there can only ever be gender comprability. this involves not identifing gender inequailities, but understanding how people act when treated with respect.

capitalism dictates that men and women are exploited for what they provide and made to resent that which others provide. divide and conquer.

no one suggests that women are not maltreated by men in significantly larger numbers than vis a versa, nor that victims of the necessity that capitalism demands are at fault, nor even that raising the consciousness of women will not help stem this tide [I] just don't believe that you will acheive this with your current po faced lecturing and hectoring attitude.

and while I am sure one could endlessly debate the notion that there are only two classes - the ruled and the rulers - lets cut through the crap and call a middle class wanker a middle class wanker. we all know what this concept represents and what it sounds like.

i dont understand what you're whinging about. our 'little meeting' is about helping women, educating women, uniting women. i really dont understand what you're going on about - are you trying to say that theres no point in doing anything? why are you accusing me of being capitalist? we arent going on a shopping trip dear. i repeat - we're doing something positive, changing things in our 'small' way. just by telling more women about the issues facing women internationally, we'll be helping, spreading awareness. we'll do what we can, and no matter how insignificant you find us, at least we're doing something. all you're doing is ranting with no clear point to make. you sound like a baby who is screaming for the sake of it. so you dont see the point, hey whatever, im sure we'll come across worse. if you ever need help from one of these 'pointless' womens groups, i hope you'll think back to your attitude here and be properly ashamed of yourself.

Through the introduction of IVF a woman in the UK today can choose the right to parenthood without ever having sex or even a relationship with a male. Indeed many women choose to remain single parents while bringing up their children.

Blokes however do not have that choice. If we want children we have to find a woman and hope she doesn't do a runner with the milk-man/woman possibly taking the kids with her.

It's not fair !

The simple reason for this phenomena is because men and women are created different...therefore if anything you should be fighting for our differences, not for "equality".

Fighting for "equality" only gets women the right to drink pints and to watch male strippers.

Bloke,

What makes you assume we want the right to be like men? We want equal opportunities to men, thats a totally different thing.

I personally am very happy being a woman. But I dont like the fear, prejudice, and abuse that I have to put up with. Groups of men shouting "nice tits" as you wander by, hoping that none of them comes any closer. It annoys me the way I get left out of conversations about music, movies or politics, and any of the other subjects where men talk over me, laugh or shrug off my ideas, or just plain ignore me. It really annoys me when these men then use my ideas as their own, or when i put work and effort into a project only to see the men involved congratulated while the women are overlooked. These arent isolated incidences, they happen over and over again, in different places with different people.

Im fed up of the way women are persistently disrespected. And it pains me to see the way young girls are left out of 'popular culture', except as eye candy. You're right, we are different, but that doesnt make us less valid, less interesting, less intelligent, less worthy.