I've just heard that two BNP members have got a beating at the hands of anarchists this morning. Well done to all concerned. Direct action gets results!
Nice to know there are nasty little bully boy thugs in the anarchist movement too, isn't it? You shame the name of "direct action". Hope this gets removed from the newswire pronto.
Right so now anti-fascism doesn't belong on IMC? What bollocks.
The BNP were having 2 demonstrations in London today - we should not let them organise.
If you can't work out why, here's some sagely advice from a fella who knew a lot about fascism: ‘Only one thing would have stopped our movement--if our adversaries had understood its principle and, from the first day, had smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.’ Adolf Hitler
I personally am fucking glad that there are some people willing to risk a severe beating, and years in prison to help stop fascism - cos if they did get in you two above wouldn't be able to whine on sites like these...
The BNP were havin 2 demos today in london, one against the national union of journalists NUJ for not scapegoating ethnic minorities enough, and another against the Commission for Racial Equality, CRE, saying they don't care about racism against whites enough.
..............doesn't mean that we have to. I would also "risk a severe beating" to stop facists, but I cetainly would not start any violence (however, if they started, self-defence isn't violence.........) Don't lower yourself to their level of ignorance.
It is in the interests of the state (and the BNP) to stir up violence and in particular to equate "anarchists" with violence. Violence, spun by the corporate media, becomes the licence for widescale repression, and it also justifies intrusive state surveillance. So I suspicious of violence-mongers like Enrager. I smell something piggy.
(As for "stopping Hitler"--- it might be argued that the red vs. brown shirt clashes in the streets of German cities in the late 1920s and early 1930s actually accelerated the success of Nazism. The "red bullies threat" was used by conservative interests in the Weimar Republic)
Hey! Liberal-left monkeys! wake up out of your self-obssessed paranoid fantasy, fighting racism often means fighting racists- stick to 'consciousness raising' you need to get a bit of a clue! You whine about violence, equate direct action against facism with some kind of state-sponsored psy-op!!! Ha! Ha!
Remember punk in the 70s/80s when nazis tried to destroy gigs and were physically beaten back by the punks? It worked! And the NF marches that were confronted and trashed by the punks and AF movement.
... Too much listening to Nirvana, Busted, Justin timberlake and Britney spears truly fucked things up dinnit?
well done anybody who thinks that fascists deserve anything other than a good beating need to reexamine their liberal armchair politics and actually wake up to the fact that they have no understanding of direct action whatsoever maybe you should go and try talking to the BNP and see what response you get.. yeah right . i think the description "different political backgrounds" is a choice bit of spin
as for remove this from the newswire .. why? so your delicate sensibilities arent offended by people actually DOING something.. liberal bollocks i have one thing to say to you.. fuck off if that happens then its an indication of just far indymedia has become the province of liberal deluded wingnuts
Anarchists have pretty clear views about Immigration, if you took the time to find out.
They are:
You have the right to live where you choose. You have the right to work where you choose. You have the right to live where you choose. You have the right to associate with whom you choose. You have the right to speak any language you choose. You have the right to privacy.
Anarchists believe in free association. Anarchists are anti-racist -We do not believe in differentiating between people because of their ethnic ancestry. We believe that all privilage, discrimination and segregation based on ethnicity, national origin, or cultural group must be eradicated. Anarchists are anti-nationalist -This means we do not recognise the right of any government to legislate citizenship. We do not recognise the territorial sovereignty of any nation or the legitimacy of any national borders. Anarchist are anti-authoritarian. Anarchists are anti-capitalist -Poverty and unemployment are intentionally created by capitalists as threats to use against and control working people. They are not caused by immigration. Under capitalism 80% of all wealth produced by a worker is stolen by various capitalists, bosses or government, before they are paid for their work. We believe that it is possible for everyone who wants to work to have a job where they can earn more but work only half as much as under the capitalism. We believe that people should not be restricted in moving across national borders to work to feed their families, because it is possible for there to be plenty of work/abundance for everyone. Anarchists believe in International Labour Solidarity - We believe that working people of all nations should not be forced by transnational corporations to accept wage slavery, dangerous and inhumane working conditions, and the the poisoning of our communities by pollution to avoid the threat of starvation, poverty, unemployment and disease. We believe that we working people can take control of our lives without any need for leaders or government to tell us what to do, because we know what needs to be done and are best able to make it happen.
And as a anarchist i belive in confronting the fascist by all means necessary. Well done all those concerned...white power? Ruling elite? Run the bastards off our streets
Great stuff to all those anti-fascists who oppossed the BNP today - hit the bastards were it hurts.
And to all the sad hippies who have moaned about todays action - grow up you pathetic freaks. Fighting fascism at times will mean just that - and if you have nothing to contribute, get out of the way of those who do!
I was going to write a reply to a comment that has been hidden.
In essence there are Fascists in all political sections, and it seems there are also fascists among the Anarchists. It is probable that it is an essential part of the human makeup. They certainly exist across all racial divisions, and all class divisions.
You cannot defeat Fascism by becoming a Fascist.
Now we have @kells telling up that Anarchists are anti-nationalist. He sets up a set of terms that Anarchists conform to. He makes an exclusive sect.
He also implies that he wants to abolish all nations. That in some dictionaries is Genocide.
Perhaps the Anarchists and the SWP who want to genocide nations are right in a way. No nation that submits to Capitalist oppression is fit to survive. Let us do away with the lot of them now. If we are quick, a few Chimpazees and Orang-Outans might inherit the Earth. If we are slow, only the Cockroaches.
What was meant by getting rid of nations was not getting rid of the PEOPLE rather, getting rid of the STATE! He was advocating doing away with government-not in committing genocide! It is the State, with its goverment hierarchy and control that must go! National borders that are used as barriers to the free movement of people must go! That is NOT fascism!
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism Fascism A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, SUPPRESSION OF THE OPPOSITION THROUGH TERROR AND CENSORSHIP, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
"Bloody Revolution" by Crass originally recorded 1980 You talk about your revolution, well, that's fine But what are you going to be doing come the time? Are you going to be the big man with the tommy-gun? Will you talk of freedom when the blood begins to run? Well, freedom has no value if violence is the price Don't want your revolution, I want anarachy and peace
Chorus: You talk of over throwing power with violence as your tool You speak of liberation and when the people rule Well ain't it people rule right now, what difference would there be? Just another set of bigots with their rifle-sights on me
But what about those people who don't want your new restrictions? Those that disagree with you and have their own convictions? You say thay've got it wrong becuase they don't agree with you So when the revolution comes you'll have to run them through Yet you say that revolution will bring freedom for us all Well freedom just ain't freedom when your back's against the wall
Chorus
Will you indoctrinate the masses to serve your new regime? And simply do away with those whose views are too extreme? Transportation details could be left to British rail Where Zyklon B succeeded, North Sea Gas will fail It's just the same old story of man destroying man We've got to look for other answers to the problems of this land
Chorus
Vive la revolution, people of the world unite Stand up men of courage, it's your job to fight
It all seems very easy, this revolution game But when you start to really play things won't be quite the same
Your intellectual theories on how it's going to be Don't seem to take into account the true reality Cos the truth of what you're saying, as you sit there sipping beer Is pain and death and suffering, but of course you wouldn't care You're far too much of a man for that, if Mao did it so can you What's the freedom of us all against the suffering of the few? That's the kind of self-deception that killed ten million jews Just the same false logic that all power-mongers use So don't think you can fool me with your political tricks Government is government and all government is force Left or right, right or left, it takes the same old course Oppression and restriction, regulation, rule and law The seizure of that power is all your revolution's for You romanticise your heroes, qutoe from Marx and Mao Well their ideas of freedom are just oppression now
Nothing's changed for all the death that their ideas created It's just the same fascistic games, but the rules aren't clearly stated Nothing's really different cos all government's the same They can call it freedom, but slavery is the game There's nothing that you offer but a dream of last years hero The truth of revolution, brother..................... is year zero
Get real people, we can enjoy all the cosy chats about the rights and wrongs of opposing the BNP with violence among ourselves that we want, but do you think you would be able to have the same debate with them? This isn't about destroying freedom of speech as some armchair liberals would say. The BNP, despite the veneer of respectability it tries to disguise itself with, ultimately stands for dictatorship and fascism. There are some people you cannot debate with. Well done to the nazi bashers.
Absolutely would I risk a bashing; have risked bashings; no way would I bash someone. People who use violence need to be saved from themselves.
As for the rule of the SS in Nazi Germany; from files found after the war it emerged that they managed to keep the regions under control by using fear and the baser instincts of people who would fight and inform on each other.
The SWP go around telling lies about Kronstadt and Makhno. So there is a question over what they say about the BNP. Are they telling lies about them too? If so why?
We see the SWP swamping lots of activist groups and making them futile, useless and ineffective. Are their leaders moles sent in by the planners of Globalization with the express intention of castrating any movement that could develop the momentum to destroy the Globalization plans? Those Anarchists who are so stupid they cannot differentiate between the State and the Nation, aid and abet them. By denying Nations the opportunity to return to a state of Anarchy those 'Anarchists' make Anarchy impossible. They spend so much energy hating Nations they forget all about Abolishing the Class System and the Wage System.
Perhaps the BNP hate all these Normans, Saxons, Danes, Welsh, Scots, Picts, etc as immigrant invaders and are expressing solidarity with the ancient Brits those johnny come latelys displaced. According to some those ancient Brits lived in a state of Anarchy. Or at least in a state of Primitive Communism. Is that a reason for the lies? Or is it that as misled poodles of the Globalizers some people have to discredit every Nationalist movement because therein lies an essential force to use to destroy Globalization.
Makhno certainly did not want a Russian dominated Ukraine.
Perhaps the real questions to be asked in British politics are "Can Labour dump Blair?" and "Can the BNP dump Griffin?" there is evidence that both are Fascists. Either of those actions done now might the key to winning the General election after next.
We have some odd definitions of fascism above. To be accurate read Mussolini. Or consider what those who backed the Fascist Parties pre war are up to now. Unfortunately they are running rings around the Anarchists the CP and the SWP.
Pixie,under whatever rule punk will exist if punk wants to exist(anything else just aint punk). "Things change ... some things are irrelevant in 2004." Crass lyrics are irrelevant but the gigs you refer to aren't? The fact that fascists are still here despite being confronted by violence proves it doesn't work. Beat up an anarchist for being an anarchist, will this stop them being an anarchist? Why would it work with a fascist?
Comments
Hide the following 24 comments
SAD
16.02.2004 12:57
Nice to know there are nasty little bully boy thugs in the anarchist movement too, isn't it? You shame the name of "direct action". Hope this gets removed from the newswire pronto.
disgusted
I aggree
16.02.2004 13:10
Remove this post now please!
sqoo
Bloody hell
16.02.2004 13:16
The BNP were having 2 demonstrations in London today - we should not let them organise.
If you can't work out why, here's some sagely advice from a fella who knew a lot about fascism:
‘Only one thing would have stopped our movement--if our adversaries had understood its principle and, from the first day, had smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.’
Adolf Hitler
I personally am fucking glad that there are some people willing to risk a severe beating, and years in prison to help stop fascism - cos if they did get in you two above wouldn't be able to whine on sites like these...
No Pasaran!
antifa
more information please!
16.02.2004 13:19
But what was it about - was there a demonstration etc? Please give more details.
clarity
well
16.02.2004 13:27
enrager
Just because they use violence...................
16.02.2004 13:35
I would also "risk a severe beating" to stop facists, but I cetainly would not start any violence (however, if they started, self-defence isn't violence.........)
Don't lower yourself to their level of ignorance.
Paul
?
16.02.2004 13:55
I don't the the SS would've too scared of some lollipop waving...
enrager
BEWARE: Agent Provocateurs and Violence Mongering
16.02.2004 16:29
(As for "stopping Hitler"--- it might be argued that the red vs. brown shirt clashes in the streets of German cities in the late 1920s and early 1930s actually accelerated the success of Nazism. The "red bullies threat" was used by conservative interests in the Weimar Republic)
Xray Spex
Well done anti-fa
16.02.2004 18:05
You whine about violence, equate direct action against facism with some kind of state-sponsored psy-op!!!
Ha! Ha!
kells
Oi! Wassup? Get Angry!!! By any means neccessary smash 'em!
16.02.2004 19:03
... Too much listening to Nirvana, Busted, Justin timberlake and Britney spears truly fucked things up dinnit?
Punk Pixie
well done
16.02.2004 19:19
anybody who thinks that fascists deserve anything other than a good beating need to reexamine their liberal armchair politics and actually wake up to the fact that they have no understanding of direct action whatsoever
maybe you should go and try talking to the BNP and see what response you get.. yeah right .
i think the description "different political backgrounds" is a choice bit of spin
as for remove this from the newswire .. why? so your delicate sensibilities arent offended by people actually DOING something.. liberal bollocks
i have one thing to say to you.. fuck off
if that happens then its an indication of just far indymedia has become the province of liberal deluded wingnuts
jane up north
krukuspooky
No Borders - No Nations
16.02.2004 20:22
They are:
You have the right to live where you choose.
You have the right to work where you choose.
You have the right to live where you choose.
You have the right to associate with whom you choose.
You have the right to speak any language you choose.
You have the right to privacy.
Anarchists believe in free association.
Anarchists are anti-racist
-We do not believe in differentiating between people because of their ethnic ancestry. We believe that all privilage, discrimination and segregation based on ethnicity, national origin, or cultural group must be eradicated.
Anarchists are anti-nationalist
-This means we do not recognise the right of any government to legislate citizenship. We do not recognise the territorial sovereignty of any nation or the legitimacy of any national borders.
Anarchist are anti-authoritarian.
Anarchists are anti-capitalist
-Poverty and unemployment are intentionally created by capitalists as threats to use against and control working people. They are not caused by immigration. Under capitalism 80% of all wealth produced by a worker is stolen by various capitalists, bosses or government, before they are paid for their work. We believe that it is possible for everyone who wants to work to have a job where they can earn more but work only half as much as under the capitalism. We believe that people should not be restricted in moving across national borders to work to feed their families, because it is possible for there to be plenty of work/abundance for everyone.
Anarchists believe in International Labour Solidarity
- We believe that working people of all nations should not be forced by transnational corporations to accept wage slavery, dangerous and inhumane working conditions, and the the poisoning of our communities by pollution to avoid the threat of starvation, poverty, unemployment and disease. We believe that we working people can take control of our lives without any need for leaders or government to tell us what to do, because we know what needs to be done and are best able to make it happen.
@kells
FIGHT BACK
16.02.2004 21:42
Well done all those concerned...white power? Ruling elite? Run the bastards off our streets
(A)
Well done!
16.02.2004 22:20
And to all the sad hippies who have moaned about todays action - grow up you pathetic freaks. Fighting fascism at times will mean just that - and if you have nothing to contribute, get out of the way of those who do!
Action Woman
Homepage:
http://www.londonclasswar.org
Hide all or None
16.02.2004 22:58
I was going to write a reply to a comment that has been hidden.
In essence there are Fascists in all political sections, and it seems there are also fascists among the Anarchists. It is probable that it is an essential part of the human makeup. They certainly exist across all racial divisions, and all class divisions.
You cannot defeat Fascism by becoming a Fascist.
Now we have @kells telling up that Anarchists are anti-nationalist. He sets up a set of terms that Anarchists conform to. He makes an exclusive sect.
He also implies that he wants to abolish all nations. That in some dictionaries is Genocide.
Perhaps the Anarchists and the SWP who want to genocide nations are right in a way. No nation that submits to Capitalist oppression is fit to survive. Let us do away with the lot of them now. If we are quick, a few Chimpazees and Orang-Outans might inherit the Earth. If we are slow, only the Cockroaches.
Schusus
No, Schusus, you blew it!
17.02.2004 01:04
rather, getting rid of the STATE! He was advocating doing away with
government-not in committing genocide! It is the State, with its goverment
hierarchy and control that must go! National borders that are used as
barriers to the free movement of people must go! That is NOT fascism!
STOP NYC Inc.
fascism
17.02.2004 01:48
Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, SUPPRESSION OF THE OPPOSITION THROUGH TERROR AND CENSORSHIP, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
oi!
Bit of that 70's/80's punk that was mentioned
17.02.2004 02:08
by Crass originally
recorded 1980
You talk about your revolution, well, that's fine
But what are you going to be doing come the time?
Are you going to be the big man with the tommy-gun?
Will you talk of freedom when the blood begins to run?
Well, freedom has no value if violence is the price
Don't want your revolution, I want anarachy and peace
Chorus: You talk of over throwing power with violence as your tool
You speak of liberation and when the people rule
Well ain't it people rule right now, what difference would there be?
Just another set of bigots with their rifle-sights on me
But what about those people who don't want your new restrictions?
Those that disagree with you and have their own convictions?
You say thay've got it wrong becuase they don't agree with you
So when the revolution comes you'll have to run them through
Yet you say that revolution will bring freedom for us all
Well freedom just ain't freedom when your back's against the wall
Chorus
Will you indoctrinate the masses to serve your new regime?
And simply do away with those whose views are too extreme?
Transportation details could be left to British rail
Where Zyklon B succeeded, North Sea Gas will fail
It's just the same old story of man destroying man
We've got to look for other answers to the problems of this land
Chorus
Vive la revolution, people of the world unite
Stand up men of courage, it's your job to fight
It all seems very easy, this revolution game
But when you start to really play things won't be quite the same
Your intellectual theories on how it's going to be
Don't seem to take into account the true reality
Cos the truth of what you're saying, as you sit there sipping beer
Is pain and death and suffering, but of course you wouldn't care
You're far too much of a man for that, if Mao did it so can you
What's the freedom of us all against the suffering of the few?
That's the kind of self-deception that killed ten million jews
Just the same false logic that all power-mongers use
So don't think you can fool me with your political tricks
Government is government and all government is force
Left or right, right or left, it takes the same old course
Oppression and restriction, regulation, rule and law
The seizure of that power is all your revolution's for
You romanticise your heroes, qutoe from Marx and Mao
Well their ideas of freedom are just oppression now
Nothing's changed for all the death that their ideas created
It's just the same fascistic games, but the rules aren't clearly stated
Nothing's really different cos all government's the same
They can call it freedom, but slavery is the game
There's nothing that you offer but a dream of last years hero
The truth of revolution, brother..................... is year zero
Oi!
CR(A)SS: Bloody Revolution
get real
17.02.2004 10:35
nightowl
The shame & the glory
17.02.2004 11:44
Absolutely would I risk a bashing; have risked bashings; no way would I bash someone. People who use violence need to be saved from themselves.
As for the rule of the SS in Nazi Germany; from files found after the war it emerged that they managed to keep the regions under control by using fear and the baser instincts of people who would fight and inform on each other.
Two wrongs don't make a right! Yeah for Crass!
peace punk
The shame & the glory
17.02.2004 11:45
Absolutely would I risk a bashing; have risked bashings; no way would I bash someone. People who use violence need to be saved from themselves.
And what kind of person would use Hitler as an authority for anything?
Two wrongs don't make a right! Yeah for Crass!
peace punk
Times are a 'changin
17.02.2004 19:08
Ok, the crass lyrics of bloody revolutions were sound and dandy for the early 80's but the BNP didn't enjoy the political standing like they have now!
Things change ... some things are irrelevant in 2004.
Respects to crass ...
Punk Pixie
Get it Right
17.02.2004 20:25
We see the SWP swamping lots of activist groups and making them futile, useless and ineffective. Are their leaders moles sent in by the planners of Globalization with the express intention of castrating any movement that could develop the momentum to destroy the Globalization plans? Those Anarchists who are so stupid they cannot differentiate between the State and the Nation, aid and abet them. By denying Nations the opportunity to return to a state of Anarchy those 'Anarchists' make Anarchy impossible. They spend so much energy hating Nations they forget all about Abolishing the Class System and the Wage System.
Perhaps the BNP hate all these Normans, Saxons, Danes, Welsh, Scots, Picts, etc as immigrant invaders and are expressing solidarity with the ancient Brits those johnny come latelys displaced. According to some those ancient Brits lived in a state of Anarchy. Or at least in a state of Primitive Communism. Is that a reason for the lies? Or is it that as misled poodles of the Globalizers some people have to discredit every Nationalist movement because therein lies an essential force to use to destroy Globalization.
Makhno certainly did not want a Russian dominated Ukraine.
Perhaps the real questions to be asked in British politics are "Can Labour dump Blair?" and "Can the BNP dump Griffin?" there is evidence that both are Fascists. Either of those actions done now might the key to winning the General election after next.
We have some odd definitions of fascism above. To be accurate read Mussolini. Or consider what those who backed the Fascist Parties pre war are up to now. Unfortunately they are running rings around the Anarchists the CP and the SWP.
Schusus
Retrospect or not?
18.02.2004 02:06
"Things change ... some things are irrelevant in 2004." Crass lyrics are irrelevant but the gigs you refer to aren't?
The fact that fascists are still here despite being confronted by violence proves it doesn't work. Beat up an anarchist for being an anarchist, will this stop them being an anarchist? Why would it work with a fascist?
Oi!