Peter Kilfoyle seems that most rarest of rare creatures indeed; a decent politician who actually says what he thinks, and eloquently and intelligently!! There are a few others; David Alton, Mo Mowlam and Simon Hughes to name some of them.

The global war on terrorism, whatever that was meant to mean has failed, because it was a falsehood from the start, perhaps like war on want and attacking global poverty. The root causes, the injustice that underpins them all, was never tackled, it was in fact ignored. The 'war on terrorism', and especially looking at Afghanistan and particularly looking at Iraq, has made a mountain out of a molehill; if there wasn't a problem before, there certainly is one now! And in the West, I feel we are going to pay a high price for the falsehood, the real reasons why Iraq was attacked. We know why, we all know why, it is the unspoken (largely unspoken) secret many have refused to countenance. It is there all the same. Getting to the root of the matter is simple, it is just that governments, regimes, powers, corporations etc bluster their way through in the name of religion, ideology, freedom, liberation etc etc, so that basically they can do whatever they like, make loads of cash, blame a load of 'dodgy' foreigners who don't deserve consideration...and HEY PRESTO, another fine mess!!!!

Those who are genuinely concerned with all forms of true justice; economic justice, social justice, justice for the oppressed here and in every other part of the world are going to have to learn to negotiate unpalatable truths, those truths that are biting in their severity and cutting in their acceptance. Only when we, as individuals and groups, communities and whatever, learn to see the world as it is, and not through rose-tinted and very provincial eyes, will we get to the heart and truth of the matter. Everything we see, hear, feel, buy etc etc, is largely corrupted, even the most radical, lefty, genuine heartfelt sentiments and ideology themselves become, after all, just another selling point, just another way for someone to cream off money and make largesse in the name of the people, or in the name of radicalism etc etc. It is all tired and old hat. Many of us, who were radicalised simply because we have been, for one reason or another, at the sharp end of society, have known about injustice all our lives, because we have endured injustice against ourselves, our families, our communities in one form or another. A lot of us get very angry and upset, and become bitter and disillusioned, when we see some 'white knight' riding into town trying to set the world to rights, merely because they are some 'important' counsellor or some important MP, or some important church man, when if they had asked us, us, the ordinary people doing shit jobs or being unemployed and 'surplus to requirements', we would tell them exactly what is wrong with the world and on a more local level, simply because we live with these problems every day of our lives!! And we could tell them eloquently and intelligently what is wrong with the world. But we are not listened to, and herein is the problem. Middle class people get upset at the vitriol aimed at them by poor and working class people, and they wonder why we are so vitriolic. It is because we have bore the brunt of injustices, so that some people can live very well, thankyouverymuch! If we are to get closure on our differences, whatever those differences may be, they will have to debated, and discussed, and looked at in length. There may be some tears, some animosities, but those who are genuine for change, and not just posturing until something better comes along, should be prepared for that. It's a hard old world out there, and some of us have it harder than others. When we have genuine reasons to unite, for a fairer and just world for all, then we will make some genuine headway. It is in your hands; it is a precious thing, hold onto it and nurture it....

re: Timbo O'Pool

I'm tempted to attend this meeting at least there would be one socialist in the room.

In your opinion...
"Peter Kilfoyle seems that most rarest of rare creatures indeed; a decent politician
who actually says what he thinks, and eloquently and intelligently!!"

As regards him being 'a decent politician', he was reported as saying the government "had ignored it's traditional voters in favour of the middle class", he simply stated the fact that most working class people had already realised and it's what New Labour were campaigning for pre-1997 ie the Middle England vote and they got it.

The Labour council in Liverpool since he became an MP in 1991 became, has been pro-privatisation and implemented all Tory policies on housing. As the saying goes "talk is cheap" and the other one "actions speak louder than words." You can't simultaneously represent opposing interests or even opposing classes it would be like trying to support both the slave owner and the enslaved.

However before we get all 'doe eyed' and fool ourselves and too many of the working class have done this for too long, Peter Kilfoyle's party in government jointly led the illegal NATO war on Yugoslavia, socialist Serbia in particular, with his government and the US government issuing a joint threat through the Russian ambassidor to 'carpet bomb' Belgrade if Milosovic didn't surrender and agree to NATO's terms.

He sends his children to the exclusive, select entry and class elitist 'Blue Coats' school here in Liverpool. He'll never do the working class any favours at all, well he hasn't yet (see his voting records below). He was on Radio Merseyside supporting the £86 million pound public funded "Housing Market Renewal Initiative" yet another QUANGO attack on what little remaining democracy in Liverpool, called "New Heartlands Board", but it'll benefit the propertied middle class, still no money for council housing improvement, we can still clear off and die. It'll be more demolition of our neighbourhoods and communities, we'll end up being dispersed as usual.

If all we want is disenting voices within the enemy camp we'll keep on deluding ourselves but they'll change nothing (see his voting record below), remember Ken Livingstone a darling of the middle class left including the Socialist Alliance et-al, these MPs are with the enemy, look how he has so easily been taken back into the open arms of the Labour party, remember it's their political choice, add him and Diane Abbot to the list of class traitors, she's another darling of the collaborating middle class left, she publicly condemned Harriet Harman and Blair for sending their children to elite private schools, she has just decided to send her own son to one of the most exclusive private schools in London opting out of Hackney council schooling that her working class constituents send their children to, this MP could have complained, raised issues and improved things for her son and her constituents children, no she has decided it's not good enough for her son and turned her back on her constituents. With MPs like this is it any wonder we're not represented and our concerns raised?

While Peter Kilfoyle is going to be part of a lecture on the global war on terrorism, let's remember who the real terrorists are, it's the US and UK in alliance, four wars and counting, do I have to remind people, Yugoslavia and Sierra Leone before 911, with Afghanistan and Iraq post 911. The first two were before the War on Terrorism was officially announced by George Bush. While oil is the reason many of us believe these wars are fought for, there is also the less known reason of containment of Russia to the south.


Look at Kilfoyle's voting record, ie his "actions!"

Opposition to cut in lone parent benefits - 10.12.1997
Attempt to block government plans to cut lone parent benefit.
Kilfoyle voted AGAINST! (ie in favour of single parent benefit cuts)

Military action against Iraq - 17.3.1998
Vote to allow UK military action against Iraq if peace bid failed.
Kilfoyle voted YES!

Opposition to cuts in student funding - 8.6.1998
Motion to oppose government plan to cut student funding.
Motion was lost.
Kilfoyle voted AGAINST! (he supported the abolition of students grants and brought in tuition fees.)

International action against terrorism - 1.11.2001
Rebel vote against government's backing for airstrikes
on Afghanistan. Rebels voted for. Motion was lost.
Kilfoyle > No vote

Here's the rest of his voting actions.

 http://politics.guardian.co.uk/person/howtheyvoted/0,9310,-2906,00.html

He's not "a decent politician" in my opinion Timbo...

Hi Kai; I talk a good fight, I think you are fighting a better fight! I suppose the problem for many of us is a lack of knowledge. It is a pity that Peter Kilfoyle, Dianne Abbott and the like have effectively turned their backs on ordinary people. And as you say, the Labour Party is now basically for the people who before were the ones who kept voting in the Tories. A repackaging in effect, but as you say very little has changed. The only thing this Labour government have introduced, when you look at it clearly, is the minimum wage, and to be honest even that is hardly worth shouting about. The sad thing about life is that, whilst some are feathering their own nests, the world can go to hell in a handcart.