concerned is right
no-one is bothered about the people who live there now because they are poor
there is loads of money coming into the area because of the "poor "people they are meant to be able to have a say in what is happening to improve their quality of life but they are being ignored by the paid officers of the local authority

Similar stuff happened in Hulme in Manchester. If you post this on Manchester Indymedia too, maybe someone who was involved in resisting the crap at the time, might have some useful advice?

The average Liverpool person has always been a second-class citizen in his or her city for many years now.

Until working class communities, black, white or asian, or whatever, and also those other groups genuinely concerned about social injustice and unequal distributions of jobs, money, good housing etc, start to work together and demand justice and more fairplay, I think this city will become 'the City of Culture' and 'the City of Regeneration' and so on, but many of us may ask culture for who?; and regeneration for who?

People all over the city, in many areas and covering all ethnicities and religions, have been crying out for decent housing and fairer allocation of resources in Liverpool for years. Then, as we are now having a Liverpool renaissance, and swimming pools full of money are coming into the city, what is happening? Yes, plush new apartments and housing projects, for those who can afford the premium prices. Oh yes, the houses are now being built, but ordinary Liverpool people of any hue or religion etc will very probably not be able to afford one.

And then this leads me nicely on to the fact that Liverpool and Merseyside as an area has had billions of pounds pumped into it over the last 15-20 years or so, part of which has been objective 1 money from the EU. Where has all this money gone? And who has been benefitting from these huge gluts of money? Why are Liverpool and Merseyside still one of the poorest areas in Western Europe in a country that is one of the wealthiest in the world, and in an area that has seen billions of pounds of money poured into it. Why are Liverpool people in the main still on low wages when we we seem to be surrounded by seas of wealth? Why is Liverpool an island of poverty in a sea of wealth? If we do not ask these basic questions, and we do not start looking more critically at local government, city councils, big business and the inevitable colonisation of working class cities by moneyed generally middle class professionals from London and other more salubrious parts of the country, we shall be blind to these harsh economic realities and injustices.

And, and I say this as trying to hold out an olive branch, can we not all have a little bigger share of the wealth, and can not Liverpool be regenerated for all its citizens, and can some more Liverpool born and bred citizens have more chances to get decent jobs and better housing and so on? Please sir, can we have some more?

Thanks folks for the information that you have posted so far. I see that some of you have been through what we are about to go through in the next few years. Ordinary Unemployed Tenants may be thrown to the four corners of the Sefton to make way for the Employed up and coming people (Who by the way, would not even drive through Bootle never mind live here).

We are in a way ignorant to the way the these Regeneration people work, and who they work hand in hand with, we have our own idea's who will be getting the big pay Cheque's at the end of the day, but one thing is for sure "It will not be us poor Tenants".

We may not be able to stop the powers that be, but we will have a bloody good try to get what we the Tenants want, and NOT WHAT THEY WANT

Heather mantioned posting this story on manchester indymedia, which sounds like a good idea. What do you think? if you want, i can do it for you. I could get anyone interested in replying to send their replies to this e-mail thread...

Folks,

I grew up in Norris Green, in the area called "the Boot Estate", named thus because it was built by the Henry Boot company which still exists. I was a community, youth, student and anti-poverty activist from 1988-1995. I saw quite clearly the manipulation that goes on in the community by paid workers who often set agendas. I was a principled, hard working community activist and was done down for being so. I quickly realised that you hit a brick wall in community activism, the middle class community workers seek to disempower you to ensure you don't empower the community, which by default would do away with their worthless jobs that don't achieve much for the communities they don't live in. Often though you don't get aid from those who you share your fate with, they prefer to believe the 'suits and ties' who must be right because they've got the establishment backing them up.

Mike Lane, knows only too well how much commitment I put in my community in terms of opposing the threatened demolition of our community in 1998 and 1999. The lack of democracy, accountability and principled leadership is mainly to blame for the destruction of my community in Norris Green. It had already suffered a decade or more of defeats in terms of losing services and facilities in the area with weak councillors and a useless MP Bob Wareing who grew up on the estate. Also apathy, the well known saying "for evil to triumph takes good people to do nothing" is true, too many 'good people' (like many of my neighbours) allowed the wrong people to speak for them and betray them while good people like myself were harrassed, verbally abused and left to be thrown out of public meetings for speaking the truth. I also faced police harrassment during the 2002 Stock Transfer campaign against Cobalt Housing Co.Ltd. House owners time and time again betray council tenants of not only Norris Green but of council tenants right across Liverpool because they've abused tenants power through so called Tenants Associations which they often took the leading positions in.

Those who are prepared to speak out and to do something to defend their neighbourhoods and communities should seek help from those who've been down this path before. Those of us who've been through this obviously have experience and knowledge to share, we've made mistakes that you shouldn't have to repeat. Just ask and I'll help in anyway I possibly can.

In terms of the destruction of working class communities, which is what it is coming down to, think of Granby/Toxteth just drive down Granby Street and see the once thriving multi-cultural centre of a mult-inational community dead, it's worse now than after the 1981 Toxteth riots. See the tower blocks across Liverpool who were promised in 1992, by the Labour council, that if they voted for transfer to the Liverpool Housing Action Trust that they would get their flats done up and could return to the council in ten years time, they were lied to. They don't get support from their MPs or local councillors who just refer them back to the unaccountable directors of the L-HAT. Most of the tower blocks have been emptied of people, having spoken to some people they have clearly told me if they had been told that demolition had been the result of voting for tranfer to L-HAT, then they would never have voted YES in 1992.

They allowed themselves to be misled, disempowered and swallow the false illusions, especially in Coronation Court in Sparrow Hall. In my opinion part of the 'demolitions for profit' hidden agenda is to disperse angry working class communities a divide and rule agenda, because that's exactly what happens, you get dispersed where ever the council decides to put you, away from your friendly neighbours and your community so you don't know who your neighbours are for many years and you can't organise in a community that you don't know very well. Some people have even been forced to leave Liverpool because of community demolition, I know because myself and two of our neighbours families left the Boot Estate in 1999, though I choose to return rather than remain in isolation in the middle of the middle of nowhere in a village in County Durham.

Areas up for demolition or currently being demolished in Liverpool include: Parts of Dovecot, Gillmoss, Fazakley, Norris Green (Boot Estate), Edge Hill, High Rise Tower blocks across the city. What else has to happen before we, the working class of Liverpool, say enough is enough, time to 'organise' ourselves 'educate' ourselves and 'agitate' for our interests. Demolitions are being imposed on us by outsiders for their own agenda.

Some tips:

Identify your opposition, especially the traitors within your community.
Find out what the true agenda is, ie the final outcome!

Identify your support. Usually and primarily your neighbours and community, do
seek support further afield, sympathic councillors and
trade unionists are a possibility.

Identify the uncommitted... Potential supporters in your neighbourhood/community.

Organise a meeting and invite strong speakers who have experience of what happens after the promises aren't met and after your homes are demolished. I'm more than prepared to exchange emails and even meet up with like minded people for an informal chat to discuss organising your local neighbourhood opposition, can help with design and printing of leaflets and people to help you post them, even canvassing on the doorstep alongside you *if you wish*.

Important: Those of you who are effected must take the lead! You must decide based on debate amongst those effected (aided with supporters advice *as you choose*) what direction you choose to take. You must also decide early on clearly what your demands are and campaign clearly on them, don't get sidelined or accept third rate deals that are designed to push you off course and defeat you. In the end you'll win or lose based on force of numbers who support your *principled* campaign, we working class have one thing our potential "force of numbers". We don't have the money, the resources of the state (including the police) or the press and media to back us up like the establishment.

Remembering always that you and all those around you have to live with the consquences of decisions you must make and campaigns you run or the consequences of doing nothing. Seek aid from working class activists whose agenda is wanting to see you win your cause because it is their cause. Without support from your neighbours you'll end up as a lone voice and you'll be isolated and picked off by your opposition

I urge you to tread carefully, work with those you learn to trust, but most importantly 'fight back' for your own peace of mind, stand tall and don't go quietly.

Good luck!

Kai Andersen -  aokai@tiscali.co.uk

The new housing association on your estate may try
and save some of the old houses do them up at about ten grand a house and
sell them to the homeowners. These houses will be in a small comer of the
old estate. But I think they will simply offer them what is called shared
ownership of one of the new builds. The RSL will own half of the house and
the homeowners will own the other half. The homeowners will never have to
pay anything for the RSL half until they leave or die. That's one of the
deals here in Kensington, which is on offer for the homeowners. The RSL's
bend over backwards for the homeowners because they know that homeowners can
cause them a great deal of trouble and they also use the homeowners as their
allies against the tenants.

It's the tenants who will get shafted the most especially with high rents
and water meters. Tenants must speak for tenants and homeowners for
homeowners. If you let the homeowners takeover, like they have here in
Kensington and in other areas like Norriss Green, (ask Kie Anderson what the homeowners are like) the tenants will be completely nackered, they will just heard you up and move you out to other crap areas in Sefton. The reason they want to build houses for sale, rent
and part ownership (its normally a third of each) is to keep better control
over the people in the area. The reason the RSL, the council and the regeneration administrators prefer an assortment of houses, mainly home ownership and shared ownership, is because homeowners are known to be moderate and as such will give in very easy, they are also more selfish and self serving. Whereas tenants, especially when they are pissed off and have a good leader or front man will cause
murder for the RSL’s. This is why the the RSL and the regeneration admin are doing things suddenly and not informing you about meetings. Make no bones about it, they know what they are doing, they have a definite agenda and the procedures and
methodology they use is always conducive with this treacherous
agenda..

What you have to do is get converts over to your way of thinking. Then you
must find out who the organisers are amongst them. The traitors in the
council, i.e. council officers, the regeneration administrators and lets
not forget the over paid RSL officers are terrified of
the organisers. The organisers are the people that these RSL’s and regeneration administrators make a massive effort to seek out before good folk like yourself can get to them.

They seek the organisers out by sending community outreach workers into your
community to search for them. At the initial stages they fall over
themselves to get to the organisers. When they have recognised them they
simply make them feel important then buy them off with jobs and job promises
and with weekends away at hotels team building and all that middle
class shit.

It's a nightmare. Remember these RSL , council and regeneration administrators are getting paid and as such work all week figuring way of shafting us all. They divide us up into as many small groups as possible then they turn us onto each other.
They also surround themselves with community traitors, keep and eye out for these working class traitors, there are at least 20 of them in each community.
The RSL and the rest of them do all these dastardly things so as to impose their agenda onto us. The sad thing is that the tenants and the wider community actively participate in their own subjugation and domestication by these oppressors. I know it
sounds incredible what I have just said, but I am talking in the
past tense, in other words it is and to a large extent already has happened
here in the Kensington New Deal area.

We as working class tenants must unite and stop the RSL’s from making our lives a misery.

Mike lane

I posted this in Manchester, and some prick told me to get a F*ckin Job, very nice

Hello Concerned,

to be honest these demolitions are political, councillors in your ward will have been aware of what's going on for a long time. If they don't represent your concerns; ie Are your ward (local area) councillors as worried as you are? Do your ward councillors live in your area? If not and they don't represent you consider standing a candidate in the next June 10th election local election, stand as "tenants and residents opposing community demolition" or some other title, then because you're trying to defend a working class community call on the wider working class to support you, the IWCA?, working class community activists, the SLP. Certainly as a local SLP activist I'm up for supporting a candidate making a stand for a working class community, ie could offer some printing of leaflets, support as an agent to help with the paperwork etc, also people to help you leaflet and canvass on the doorstep.

Consider it, because it's local councillors who sit back and let opppression rule, it's councillors who let non-elected, unaccountable, unrepresentative people make decisions in your community that they were elected to take and are accountable for.

Believe me when you're challenging their cushy positions on the council they'll wake and start listening to your community. So even if you don't win you'll get a local vote count as an indication of local people's support for your position. What you say?

Kai

Hi Kai.

Now your making me think mate. ;-)

followed this discussion - and i seems like pople should get together and start laying down some information and thinking of doing something together - even if its just a flyposting of differnt areas. But people should be warned going down the rout of talking to councillors or trusting political parties - middle - left or far left wil lead to nowhere.

For the last six months my local community Residents Association(Welsh Streets Liverpool8) have been working in conjunction with the major Housing Association in our area,INclude/CDS, together with preferred Developer, Gleesons and Architects, Triangle.

We are attempting to look after the interests of our residents(CDS/Private landlord tenants and owner-occupiers)during a very traumatic period when no one knows at this stage what the final outcome will be.

We have visited Regeneration schemes in Manchester, Birkenhead and L8 as well as holding Communty meetings where residents are kept up to date during the planning stages and have their say about how their area is improved and seek answers to their many questions on how the regeneration will affect them individually.

One of the main concerns is for Owner-occupiers. With low values on their pre-1919 property how can they be expected to pay for refurbishment or a new house? The one alternative that's beeen mention is shared-ownership. The Council will have to come up with a scheme that keeps everyone happy and is affordable.

The Liverpool City Council appointed Pennington Consultants to started their Neighbourhood Renewal Assessment on 24 February.They will be surveying the external condition of 100% of the properties in Dingle, from the Holy Land off Park Road to the Welsh Streets up to Princes Road.Reporing to the Council in August 2004.

We then await the Council's declaration of Renewal Areas before we can get the money of the Govt. for housing renewal. £84 million in the first year.

I too live in the area. As I can recall it was the PEOPLE OF THE AREA WHO ASKED FOR THIS!
I would like to know how much the rents are going to be, where did you get your info from? Or are you just speculating that there will be a huge increase - what about the fair rents act? Surley that would cover this. What about the owner occupiers who have not been able to sell their homes, after many years of living in the area my house was worth less than I had paid for it, even though it had been well maintained.
The people of this area have been over-looked in the past, dont they (we) deserve modern homes that aren't damp, where you have a decent amount of space around you, with gardens for those who want them? Not to mention the filthy entries, rats, drug users, anti social behaviour and worn out drainage.
With places for our kids to play and for us to park our cars outside our own houses - the klondyke will become a much safer community for all of it's residents.

These new houses will be under a housing association and as such are indeed under the fair rents catchment.

Majority of the houses in that area as far as I know are pricate landlord and charge generally £65+ per week.
If it is currently a housing association property it probably will will £45+ for a 2 up 2 down.

New build 3 bedroom houses that were built in Park Lane estate (Dodge) are I think about £68pw.
So yes, thats an extra bedroom, new everything, big garden - in fact A garden, off street parking, central heating, double glazed etc etc
I don't know if there are 2 bedrooms there but they would be in relation.

If would happily pay a few quid extra to get the above, it would knock down my car insurance

I used to be a Klondyke resident for all my life from a child. I remember when this area was about the working class. This means people who are WORKING! or have the mindset of trying to get employment to contribute to the area. What brought this very historic area down was the outright SCUM who decide to have 10 children and live off state benfit. Big fat hairy arsed women who can only get off their 'portable chair' to go to the shop to get their fags and then doss and let the kids raise themselves. I have such contempt for these people as they are like the fuckin rats that reside there also. They live off every other poor tax paying fucker and contribute fuck all!

You are 'CONCERNED' about this 'Regeneration' are you???BOLLOCKS mate! You're just wondering how better off you will be, but have you asked yourself this little question...What the fuck have you done to better your area?? People like you piss me off because you moan and moan about having no rights as a renter and being poor. Get off your arse and do something about it instead of moaning about what you are going to get out it. You're no better than the RATS!!!

Before all you renters moved through various Associations who I will keep nameless for now, the area was full of blood, sweat and a good laugh. People with any nouse and get up and go, fuckin went! with that said, Association were brought in to fill houses that good people left. They filled them with the likes of you. I left and came back. Now i've gone again as I never relised how bad the area had become with all the renters and single mums. Get a fuckin life dead-head. No one owes you a living. So get down on your knees like peasant that you are and worship the Council for giving you a potential way out. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE YOUR FUCKIN HEAD THAT IS!!!!!!!!

My sympathy goes out to all you hard working people and old age residents who built the community spirit as these people have payed mortgages for years and coming to completion of payments on their property. They have to start again. Now they're the poor ones!!!

RE;....THIS COMMENT;
GRASS IS GREENER......
-------------------------
21.09.2005 18:17
I used to be a Klondyke resident for all my life from a child. I remember when this area was about the working class. This means people who are WORKING! or have the mindset of trying to get employment to contribute to the area. What brought this very historic area down was the outright SCUM who decide to have 10 children and live off state benfit. Big fat hairy arsed women who can only get off their 'portable chair' to go to the shop to get their fags and then doss and let the kids raise themselves. I have such contempt for these people as they are like the fuckin rats that reside there also. They live off every other poor tax paying fucker and contribute fuck all!
You are 'CONCERNED' about this 'Regeneration' are you???BOLLOCKS mate! You're just wondering how better off you will be, but have you asked yourself this little question...What the fuck have you done to better your area?? People like you piss me off because you moan and moan about having no rights as a renter and being poor. Get off your arse and do something about it instead of moaning about what you are going to get out it. You're no better than the RATS!!!
Before all you renters moved through various Associations who I will keep nameless for now, the area was full of blood, sweat and a good laugh. People with any nouse and get up and go, fuckin went! with that said, Association were brought in to fill houses that good people left. They filled them with the likes of you. I left and came back. Now i've gone again as I never relised how bad the area had become with all the renters and single mums. Get a fuckin life dead-head. No one owes you a living. So get down on your knees like peasant that you are and worship the Council for giving you a potential way out. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE YOUR FUCKIN HEAD THAT IS!!!!!!!!
My sympathy goes out to all you hard working people and old age residents who built the community spirit as these people have payed mortgages for years and coming to completion of payments on their property. They have to start again. Now they're the poor ones!!!

A Past Resident
---------------I ALSO GREW UP IN THE KLONDYKE AREA;
I wonder though, about your age and the time period of your residency?
When I was brought up in the area,
it was by two working parents, now approaching their eightieth year.
NOT by;
(quote)'outright SCUM who decide to have 10 children and live off state benfit. Big fat hairy arsed women who can only get off their 'portable chair' to go to the shop to get their fags and then doss and let the kids raise themselves.
My parents worked hard, never asked for(nor received )a penny in state benefits, managed their own affairs in a self sacrificing way,to give us a happy homelife and me a good life, education and future.
They were law abiding, decent, caring people, with principals,morals and respect for each other and others,
as were all the people I knew and grew up with.
I remember playing skipping games, hopscotch, ball games and water fights,
when at some point some of the 'grown ups' inevitably joined in !
All of this in the safety of your own street, with people you could trust and rely on.
I understand the anger that shows in your words;
I also feel a great sadness that things have changed so much..
and unfortunatly it seems to be happening all over the country.
I moved out MANY years ago, and became increasingly concerned about the decline of an area I remembered with so much fondness.
Memories of the people who were kind ,caring and made the community I still revisited with my own children.
The many visits to my parents home, catching up with old neighbours and friends,
The street parties we made special visits for,
the school holidays, when my children used to love staying at granny and grandads house for a few days, sometimes playing with the children of the children I had grown up with.
You say 'My sympathy goes out to all you hard working people and old age residents who built the community spirit as these people have payed mortgages for years and coming to completion of payments on their property. They have to start again. Now they're the poor ones!!!'
Fotunatly I managed to move my parents near to me several years ago(and it was no easy task to get them to leave the home they had lived in for 50 years!)
I actually found your comments, whilst looking for info; for my uncle,who is still living there ,
in the house he was born in,
he is nearly 80 yrs of age and wondering what will happen to him !
Hopefully I will find him somewhere near me and the rest of the family,but I wonder who will lend a hand to others in his position,who may have no one to help and support them.
I would like to think that somewhere in the regenerated area,they will find a place to show photos and perhaps comments from old residents,about the 'WAY THINGS USED TO BE'
I feel sad that todays children haven't got what I had,
but I think we should always remember the way it used to be and tell our children,so that at least the people and the place that Klondyke once was will never be forgotten!!
Gill