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Oslo peace process was a disaster!

Pat Johnson | 18.12.2003 01:36

In the 10 years since the Oslo peace process began, the situation for Israelis and Palestinians, already strained by four decades of real or imminent conflict, has become far, far worse.That was the underlying message of a presentation by Dr. Daniel Pipes at the University of British Columbia last Friday.



Pipes, an American foreign policy expert specializing in the Middle East, was in town as the guest of Hillel Vancouver for the student group's annual gala Sunday night at the Delta Airport Hotel in Richmond. Prior to that engagement, he spoke to a packed theatre at the university as about two dozen protestors chanted outside.

Recalling the famous handshake on the White House lawn between Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, overseen by U.S. president Bill Clinton, Pipes recast that moment of global optimism as the tragic beginning of a massive deterioration in relations between the two peoples.
"This event inspired great optimism," said Pipes. "Only a small band of skeptics thought it might turn out otherwise.... The reality of these accords is that they took a bad situation and made it much, much worse."

In the last decade, Israel has suffered the worst terrorism it has ever experienced and life for the average Palestinian has deteriorated beyond previous lows.

"Everyone agrees that things got worse," said Pipes. "They don't agree on why it got worse."

The finger-pointing, prevalent in the Middle East, is just as evident in Canada, as representatives of Jews for a Just Peace and the Palestine Solidarity Group shouted slogans outside the meeting, putting all the blame on Israel. Most protestors chose not to attend the meeting, however, permitting a civil, non-confrontational 90-minute discussion.

Pipes' presence brought out extra security precautions by the university, which successfully avoided the bitter and sometimes violent confrontations experienced on other North American campuses over the Middle East issue. Pipes has become a lightning rod of sorts for Israel's critics, who accuse his campus-watch.org Web site of threatening academic freedom. He is a regular columnist in the Jerusalem Post, among other publications, and is the director of the Middle East Forum, a think tank based in Philadelphia.

While chanting dissidents disagree, Pipes lays the blame for the decade of declining hopes on a what he sees as a single unacknowledged fact: that even if Arab leaders, including Arafat, are prepared to acknowledge and coexist with Israel, the mass of Arab citizens are not.

"The Israeli position in Oslo negotiations was to assume that the Palestinians had accepted the permanent existence of a Jewish state," Pipes said. "The reason [peace] did not happen is it was a wrong premise. Palestinians did not accept Israel's existence."

Despite Arafat's official statements, incitement against Israel's very presence continued unabated, according to Pipes, in vitriolic school textbooks that deny any validity to the "Zionist enemy," in official Palestinian Authority-controlled media, in religious sermons, in posters that appear everywhere in Palestinian communities, and even in crossword puzzles (Q: "A city in Palestine" A: "Haifa"). The glorification of suicide bombers, whose funerals, according to Pipes, bear more resemblance to wedding celebrations, is another of the most obvious and disturbing examples of non-acceptance of Israel.

Even if Arafat was sincere about seeking peace, Pipes said, the animosity was too deeply entrenched to change without massive efforts from the top. Instead, public opinion moved the other direction, Pipes suggested.

Through Israel's history of defensive wars, Palestinians and other Arabs had come to realize that Israel was a formidable foe who would not, in the short term at least, be beaten militarily. Coexistence seemed like the only option for the Palestinians, according to Pipes.

That all changed, Pipes posited, when Israel made an offer of effectively everything the Palestinians had demanded. Coupled with Israel's abrupt departure from military positions in Lebanon, the Palestinian "street" viewed these developments as a signal of Israel's weakness.

"The Israelis made concession after concession," Pipes said. Instead of leading to feelings of fraternity, he explained, the concessions were perceived as first blood.

"Instead of negotiating something with the Israelis," Pipes said, summarizing what he called a prevalent attitude among average Palestinians, "[maybe] they could beat the Israelis."

Despite series of agreements between Israel and, variously, Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians, no fundamental shift in public opinion at the street level ever took place, said Pipes.

"A state-to-state agreement [with Arab leaders] isn't worth a whole lot more than the paper it's printed on," said Pipes. "The mistake was to focus on the leaders and not look at the larger population."

In a question period following his presentation, Pipes was asked how Israel and its allies could affect public opinion at the street level in the Arab world, when free expression is limited. The answer, Pipes said, is not in talking but in the daily experience of Palestinian life. Over the past decade, life has deteriorated for Palestinians and the imminence of a Palestinian state has faded.

"The Palestinians were given carrot after carrot after carrot," said Pipes. "It didn't work. All it did was give them a sense that violence against Israel is the way to go."

The situation is unlikely to change, he said, until Palestinian public opinion concludes that their personal situation will not improve until violence ceases.

In a rare note of optimism, however, Pipes suggested that convincing the entire Arab world of Israel's legitimacy is probably not necessary. It would be counterintuitive for Moroccans or Egyptians to keep dreaming of a Jew-free Middle East, he argued, when the Palestinians have given up on the idea.

Nevertheless, the potential exists for a far worse cataclysmic conclusion to this protracted struggle, he warned. The two sides are fundamentally incompatible, in the sense that Israel seeks to exist in the Middle East and the general Arab view is that Israel should not exist. The only solution will come from one side giving up its ideal. That could come from Israelis acknowledging that the Zionist experiment has failed – that the goal of ingathering to a place of peace will never be reached – or it could come from an act by a state like Iran eliminating Israel (along with whoever else gets in the way) through nuclear war. On the other hand, coexistence could come through the Arab abandonment of its fundamental ideal of Israel's illegitimacy.

Pipes called the recent Geneva Accord, created by self-appointed Israelis and Palestinians, "Oslo rewarmed" and insisted there should be no negotiation until the conflict ends.

"This is a war that's now taking place," he said, adding that nations do not conduct armistice talks while fighting continues. "We shouldn't talk about final status issues." He claimed to have not even reviewed the contents of the Geneva Accord, and dismissed the contents of other agreements since Oslo.

After years of United Nations resolutions against Israel, Pipes argued it's time for the United States to pull out of the international body, which he argued was "irredeemable" and should be replaced by an organization of democratic states.

Though Pipes' advance billing, thanks to his critics, suggested a horned fanatic, the academic's low-key, quiet presentation helped keep the atmosphere sedate. Geoffrey Druker, city director for State of Israel Bonds, was the moderator for the lunch-hour event. He credits a strong turnout by members of the Jewish community for preventing any demonstration against Pipes within the theatre itself, noting that any disruptive audience members would easily have been drowned out by an audience that was clearly and overwhelmingly Zionist.

Another issue preventing strong reaction from the floor, Druker suggested, was the depth and breadth of Pipes' historical knowledge.

"Intellectually, I think he was quite intimidating to argue with," said Druker.

Only two questioners challenged Pipes' suppositions. The first, a young man, asserted that anyone with the faintest knowledge of Middle East history would know Pipes' conclusions are unfounded. Amid laughter from the audience, Pipes noted the statement was typical of his critics, who use invective but no substance to deflate his arguments. Later, a young woman noted that Pipes described how Israel could win the conflict, but she asked how Israel could win the hearts of the Palestinians, the United Nations and the world.

"I applaud your sentiments," Pipes told her. "But this is war." First, Israel must achieve survival, he said, then it can worry about winning hearts.


Pat Johnson

Comments

Hide the following 13 comments

Palestinian solutions?

18.12.2003 09:13

Pipes entire premise seems to be that "the mass of Arab citizens" will not acknowledge Israel, and that "Palestinians [the general population] did not accept Israel's existence".

Quite frankly, this is complete nonsense. The most recent polls in Palestine have suggested that when given three options of a 2-state solution, a 1 state solution (with Israeli and Palestine coexistence) or simply having all of Israel in a greater Palestine between 46% and 63% go for a 2 state solution, namely acknowledging the right of Israel to exist. Just over a tenth have gone for a 1 state solution, with about a fifth to a quarter wanting a greater Palestine.

Moreover, the lower figure of 43% for a 2 state solution can be seen as the result of Israeli efforts to clamp down on Palestinians ( http://washingtontimes.com/world/20031117-092211-9792r.htm) and that were there to be serious legitimate moves to a 2 state solution it is likely that the popularity of this option would rise further.

Other polls suggest that there is a genuine willingness amongst the huge majority of Palestinians to negotiate with Israel and try and make progress (e.g. the 2001 poll saying 71% of Palestinians wanted reconciliation with Israel after a peace negotiation).

Either Pipes is completely unaware of these polls or he chooses to misrepresent the findings.

Leam


Hamas and Hezbollah wrecked the peace proccess!

18.12.2003 15:19

I know exactly why the peace proccess failed and that was because Hamas and Hezbollah wrecked it with their continued suicide bomings which have so far killed and injured thousands of Israelis. Israel was willing to give the Palestinian people the chance of peace but those extremists refused it.

speaker of the truth


Israel wrecked the peace process!

18.12.2003 20:55

I know exactly why the peace process failed and that was because Israel wrecked it with their continued military attacks on civilians which have so far killed and injured thousands of Palestinians. Palestine was willing to give the Israeli people the chance of peace but those extremists refused it.

speaker of the truth


Palestinians wreck every hope of peace as soon as it appears.

19.12.2003 00:07

Guess why? Because the Palestinians with the power - Killer Arafat and his genocidal Hamas/PIJ/Al-Aqsa minions don't want peace. They want to see all Jews exterminated. That's why they've never ever made even the slightest move towards peace; that's why the PLO was formed years before the so called 1967 'occupation' and why they don't blow up JORDANIAN children.

It's about wiping out the Jews. It's about Arafat's embezzled billions. It's about Rantisi's international fame as a child murderer.

And so what if they send hundreds of other Palestinian's children to their deaths as Islamikaze killers, it's all more cash in the bank so they can send their own kids to private schools in the West (or, in the case of Arafat, so he keep his wife Suha in the style she's accustomed to - to the tune of $150,000 A MONTH!)

speaker of the truth


Israelis wreck every hope of peace as soon as it appears.

19.12.2003 01:20

Guess why? Because the Israelis with the power - Killer Sharon and his genocidal Likud minions don't want peace. They want to see all Palestinians exterminated. That's why they've never ever made even the slightest move towards peace; that's why the Stern Gang, Irgun and Haganah were formed years before the so called 1948 'state of Israel' and why they launch missile attacks on ISRAELI children.

It's about wiping out the Palestinians. It's about Sharon's embezzled billions. It's about the IDF's international fame as child murderers.

And so what if they send hundreds of other Palestinian's children to their deaths as by attacking them with US helicopter gunships, it's all more cash in the bank so they can send their own kids to private schools in the West (or, in the case of Sharon, so he keep his son Gilad in the style he's accustomed to - to the tune of a $1.5 million dollar "loan"!)

speaker of the truth


Unfortunately for you, it doesn't work the other way round

19.12.2003 10:14

If Israel really wanted to 'exterminate' the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian jihadinazis who pretend to be Palestinian, why has this never been done? Why are 95-98% of all Palestinians killed armed combatants, i.e. actually engaged in violent, hostile acts (not stone throwing, but bomb making, bombing attacks or shooting attacks on civilians etc)?

The Stern Gang, Irgun and Haganah were formed because of the Arab nazi massacres of Jews which have been a staple of life for Jews in Israel, the land of their ancestors, prior to 1948 and afterwards too.

The IDF may kill children, but only when those children are forced by Hamas killers to act as human shields, to run in front of the IDF while a Rantissi follower sprays everyone in range with automatic weapons fire. The IDF don't target civilians, Palestinian killers only target civilians. Palestinian children die because they're just meat to Arafat, he wants them to die. His war cry is 'give me your children, give me your children' and he uses them like pieces of meat. The corpses make Arafat look good on TV, geddit? The odd ISM corpse is even better. Arafat must have had a good laugh about Corrie and Hurndall, rubbing his wizened, blood stained hands together at the thought.

Wiping out Palestinians - you're being silly and childish. The only side in this conflict that is genocidal is the Palestinian leadership. Israel wouldn't need to 'exterminate' anyone, when 'Palestinians' could be forced to return to their own countries, e.g. Jordan or Egypt. Arafat would be going back to the latter, of course, as he was born and raised in Cairo. Unlike Arafat, Hamas et al, Israel isn't morally capable of even considering using such tactics. Israel has never indiscriminately targetted civilians - name me one example of a Palestinian civilian, uninvolved in hostilities, who has been deliberately targetted and killed by the military? The Palestinians, on the other hand, ONLY target civilians. The softer the target, the more they like it.

Israel doesn't attack children with helicopter gunships. Hamas leaders like to make sure there are plenty of children around at all times to act as slabs of meat for their protection.

Arafat steals the $1.8m A YEAR, EVERY YEAR he gives to his wife from the mouths of starving Palestinian children. Just like he stole the $1bn - $3bn he has embezzled in accounts in Switzerland.

Better try a bit harder than changing a few words next time - it doesn't work both ways.

speaker of truth


Lengthy-ish reply

19.12.2003 14:21

A few replies to the above comments:

1) You claim “95-98% of all Palestinians killed armed combatants, i.e. actually engaged in violent, hostile acts (not stone throwing, but bomb making, bombing attacks or shooting attacks on civilians etc)?”

I would be very interested to know where you get this figure from. Even the very pro-Israeli International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism say that only 46.7% of deaths were they able to definitely say were of Palestinian combatants“ ( http://www.ict.org.il/). Moreover, they themselves say “while Israelis account for about 27 percent of the total “Intifada” fatalities, they represent over 43 percent of the non-combatant victims”. In other words, there have been more Palestinian (about 57%) than Israeli non-combatant victims. Obviously you must have your figures from some reputable source however…

2) You state “The IDF may kill children, but only when those children are forced by Hamas killers to act as human shields, to run in front of the IDF while a Rantissi follower sprays everyone in range with automatic weapons fire.”

To be honest, I find it kind of dispiriting that you speak such absolute nonsense. Are you really suggesting that the only time that the IDF have killed children have been in these situations? The first example could be Mohammad al-Dura’s death as he crouched with his father. Other examples would be the uninvestigated killing of 5 children by a booby trap bomb  http://oznik.com/news/020301.html. Examples of direct killing by the IDF of kids can all too easily be found. For example, this story of the IDF killing a ten year old after a stone throwing clash ( http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0311/S00231.htm). Even if you believe that all these deaths were accidental or not foreseeable, there is no way that they fit in your bizarre image of Hamas forcing Palestinian kids to almost get killed. Besides, if you really believed this was the case, do you honestly think that Hamas would have any sort of following in Palestine at all??

3) You claim “Israel wouldn't need to 'exterminate' anyone, when 'Palestinians' could be forced to return to their own countries, e.g. Jordan or Egypt.”

I can understand (but don’t necessarily agree) Israeli’s who are concerned about the return of refugees to what is currently Israeli land. However, are you honestly suggesting all Palestinians who were not born in Palestine should be forced to return to their “own countries”. I presume you’re saying that either there should not be a Palestinian homeland or there should be one but those born outside it shouldn’t be allowed to live there. The first suggestion makes you sound like a rabid right-wing nutter (and hypocritical if you’re really basing your views upon people having a right to live where they were born). The second would deny Palestine basic rights to allow in who they want to their own country. After all, I bet you don’t complain about the number of Israeli citizens who were not born in Israel being allowed to live there???

4) Unlike Arafat, Hamas et al, Israel isn't morally capable of even considering using such tactics. Israel has never indiscriminately targetted civilians.

Given the moral capabilities of the IDF, I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on Sabra and Shatila. As you will well know Israel has also been repeatedly criticised by human rights organisations ( http://web.amnesty.org/pages/isr-index-eng – for an example also rightly condemning Palestinian actions as well) for various human rights organisations (including indiscrimate rounding up of civilians).

5) The Palestinians, on the other hand, ONLY target civilians. The softer the target, the more they like it.

The same ICT figures quoted earlier 20.6% of Israeli casualties have been combatants. Clearly the suicide killings of Israelis are to be condemned (and I think most people would do so), but to suggest that the only people Palestinians kill are civilians is plainly nonsense.

If I were you I’d be a bit more careful about making ridiculous sweeping statements (and it might be nice if when you were making such statements you at least bothered to have a cursory check to see if they’re correct).


PS Given the multiple “speaker of truth” comments, I can only presume that these are the first steps towards a proper UK version of the Luther Blissett multiple-identity idea in Italy. Top idea!!

Leam


Don't bother reasoning with a troll

19.12.2003 14:34

We're not interested in your facts, and we're not interested in your persuasion by superior argument. All we want to do is stir the shit. We hang around on left-wing sites, continually posting absurd categorical assertions with no supporting evidence whatsoever.

We do this in order to wear you down, by coaxing you into running around gathering the facts, in a vain attempt to disprove our "arguments", and to generally disrupt any reasonable discussion of the issues. Looks like I've won again this time, heh heh!

speaker of the truth


Israeli killing of children under scrutiny at the UN

19.12.2003 14:48

30 September 2002

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
PRESS RELEASE

Israel / Occupied Territories / Palestinian Authority: Killing of children under scrutiny at UN

More than 250 Palestinian and 72 Israeli children have been killed in Israel and the Occupied Territories in the past 23 months [up to September 2002]. When the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child meets to consider Israel's periodic report on Wednesday October 2, Amnesty International calls for a new mindset among Israelis and Palestinians to prevent the killing of more children.

Killing the Future: Children in the Line of Fire, a new report issued today by Amnesty International details the way in which Palestinian and Israeli children have been targeted in an unprecedented manner since the beginning of the current intifada.
 http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/index/MDE020052002?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\ISRAEL/OCCUPIED+TERRITORIES

"Children are increasingly bearing the brunt of this conflict. Both the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) and Palestinian armed groups show an utter disregard for the lives of children and other civilians, Amnesty International said today.

"Respect for human life must be restored. Only a new mindset among Israelis and Palestinians can prevent the killing of more children."

The impunity enjoyed by members of the IDF and of Palestinian groups responsible for killing children has no doubt helped create a situation where the right to life of children and civilians on the other side has little or no value.

"Enough of unacceptable reasons and excuses. Both the Israeli government and the Palestinian Authority must act swiftly and firmly to investigate the killing of each and every child and ensure that all those responsible for such crimes are brought to justice," the organization stated.

The international community should heed the call by Amnesty International and scores of other NGOs for international monitors to be sent to the region. The Israeli government should stop refusing the presence of international monitors. Amnesty International believes that had observers been present in the region since October 2000, their presence may have saved the lives of Israeli and Palestinian children as well as other civilians.

Killings of Palestinian children

The majority of Palestinian children have been killed in the Occupied Territories when members of the IDF responded to demonstrations and stone throwing incidents with unlawful and excessive use of lethal force. Eighty Palestinian children were killed by the IDF in the first three months of the intifada alone.

Sami Fathi Abu Jazzar died on the eve of his 12th birthday after being shot in the head by a live bullet fired by Israeli soldiers into a crowd of mostly primary school children. The shooting took place in the aftermath of a stone throwing demonstration. Six other children were injured by live fire in the same incident. Amnesty International delegates were present in the crowd at the time and concluded that the lives of the soldiers were not in danger.

In the past year Palestinian children have been killed when the IDF randomly opened fire, shelled or bombarded residential neighbourhoods at times when there was no exchange of fire and in circumstances in which the lives of the IDF soldiers were not at risk. Others were killed during Israeli state assassinations, when the IDF destroyed Palestinian houses without warning, and by flechette shells and booby traps used by the IDF in densely populated areas.

The large numbers of children killed and injured and the circumstances in which they were killed indicates that little or no care was taken by the IDF to avoid causing harm to children.

Dina Matar, two-months-old and Ayman Matar, 18-months-old, were among nine children killed on 22 July 2002 when the IDF dropped a one ton bomb from an F-16 fighter jet on a densely populated area of Gaza city. The bomb killed 17 people. The aim of the attack was to assassinate a leading Hamas activist, who was among those killed. The following day Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon called the attack "one of the most successful operations".

A number of Palestinian children have also died after being held up at IDF checkpoints, and delayed or even prevented from passing through to reach hospital. At least three children have been killed by Israeli settlers. In most cases the IDF does not intervene to protect Palestinians from Israeli settlers, who literally get away with murder.

Killings of Israeli children

Israeli children have been killed by armed Palestinian groups both in the Occupied Territories and inside Israel. The first Israeli child killed in this intifada was killed in January 2001 near Ramallah, in the Occupied Territories. About 70 percent of the victims were killed by Palestinian suicide bombings and others were killed in shootings and other bomb attacks on cars or public buses.

In the last 18 months there has been a marked increase in attacks on Israeli civilians and an increasingly high number of victims have been children. In the first seven months of 2002 alone, 36 Israeli children were killed by Palestinian armed groups, 19 in Israel and 17 in the Occupied Territories.

On 1 June 2001 a suicide bomber blew himself up among a group of young people waiting to enter the "Dolphinarium" night club. Twelve of the 21 people who were killed were aged under 18. Among the victims were 14-year-old Maria Tagilchev, outside whose school a car bomb had exploded two days earlier and 15-year-old Yevgenia Keren Dorfman, who sustained serious brain damage and died 18 days later.

The 'Izz al-Din al Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, claimed responsibility for the bombing and pledged to carry out further attacks.

Twelve people were killed and more than 50 were injured by a suicide bomber on the 2 March 2002. The bomb was detonated next to a group of women waiting with their children, for their husbands to leave the nearby synagogue. Those killed included two sisters Shiraz Nehmad aged 6 and her two-year-old sister Liran, their four cousins LIdor and Oriah Ilan aged 12 years and 18 months and Shaul and Avraham Eliahu Nehmad aged 15 and 17.

The full text of the report is available at:  http://www.web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/recent/mde020052002



Public Document
****************************************
For more information please call Amnesty International's press office in London, UK, on +44 20 7413 5566
Amnesty International, 1 Easton St., London WC1X 0DW. web:  http://www.amnesty.org

For latest human rights news view  http://news.amnesty.org

Speaker of the truth


Israeli pilots refuse to obey govt orders to murder

19.12.2003 14:50

'We're air force pilots, not mafia. We don't take revenge'

Israel's F-16 and Black Hawk refuseniks say why they could not obey illegal orders and kill innocent Palestinians

Chris McGreal in Tel Aviv
Wednesday December 3, 2003
The Guardian

For two months, a rebel group of Israeli Black Hawk helicopter and F-16 fighter pilots has been denounced as traitors for saying they will no longer bomb Palestinian cities.

Until now they have maintained a resolute silence on their motives, preferring to limit their criticism of Ariel Sharon's war to a letter signed by 27 reserve and active duty pilots refusing to carry out what they described as illegal orders, and denouncing the occupation as eating at the moral fabric of Israel.

Now, having been thrown out of the air force, they are talking publicly about what brought members of the most revered branch of the Israeli military to make an unprecedented challenge to the handling of the conflict with the Palestinians.

"I served more than seven years as a pilot," said Captain Alon R, who, like all the younger pilots, hopes to return to combat flying and so declines to use his full name in order to retain his security clearance. "In the beginning, we were pilots who believed our country would do all it could to achieve peace. We believed in the purity of our arms and that we did all we could to prevent unnecessary loss of life.

"Somewhere in the last few years it became harder and harder to believe that is the case."

The line was crossed for most of the pilots with the dropping of the one-tonne bomb last year on the home of a Hamas military leader, Salah Shehade, killing him and 14 of his family, mostly children.

One captain described the bombing as deliberate killing, murder even. Another called it state terrorism, though some colleagues swiftly stomped on that interpretation. But they all agreed that the attack sowed the doubts that resulted a year later in the letter that sent shockwaves through the Israeli military.

"The Shehade incident was a red light for us, a final warning," said Capt Alon R. "With Shehade I began to re-evaluate my beliefs. We killed 14 innocent people, nine of them children. After my commander gave an interview in which he said he sleeps well at night and his men can do the same. Well, I can't. We refused to see it as an innocent mistake."

Capt Assaf L, who served as a pilot for 15 years until sacked for signing the letter, had similar doubts.

"You don't have to be a genius to know that the destruction from a one-tonne bomb is massive, so someone up there made a decision to drop it knowing it would destroy buildings," he said. "Someone took the decision to kill innocent people. This is us being terrorists. This is vengeance."

Lieutenant-Colonel Avner Raanan is among the most respected pilots to have signed the letter. He served for 27 years and was awarded one of Israel's highest military decorations in 1994. "If you look at the past three years, you see that, if we had a suicide bombing, the Israeli air force made a big operation in which civilians were killed, and that looks to innocent eyes like revenge," he said.

"You hear it in the streets of Israel; people want revenge. But we should not behave like that. We are not a mafia."

More than 30 pilots have now endorsed the letter refusing to fly bombing raids on Palestinian cities, although four retracted, one an El Al pilot threatened with dismissal, and another a reserve pilot who lost his civilian job.

At its core, the letter questions the legality of the "targeted assassinations" that have claimed the lives of more civilian bystanders than their Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade targets. In October, 14 civilians were killed when the air force fired missiles at a car in Gaza's Nuseirat refugee camp.

"Is it legitimate to take F-15's and helicopters designed to destroy enemy tanks, and use them against cars and houses in one of the most heavily populated places in the world?" Capt Alon R asked.

"Because of the terrorism, we have become blinded by the blood on our own faces. We cannot see that on the other side, beside the terrorists, is a whole nation of innocent people. It's important that we recognise that, and that, as military people, we say that."

The pilots' stand shook Israeli society. There is no shortage of critics of the prime minister's militarist tactics but those of the peace camp are widely viewed as pacifists and marginal. Doubts raised by the army chief of staff, Moshe Ya'alon, and four former heads of the Shin Bet intelligence service alarmed many Israelis, but the criticisms were focused solely on whether Mr Sharon's tactics were fuelling terrorism.

The pilots straddle both issues, raising moral and legal questions on the conduct of the war and challenging the government's claim its strategy is about defending Israel.

"Our government's policy is to maintain fear in the public," Capt Assaf L said. "We're not weak. It's not 1967 or 1973, with the Syrian army on the border waiting to attack us. This is maintaining a war to maintain the occupation.

"We've the strongest nation in the Middle East. The terrorists are bastards, but we must fight to not become terrorists ourselves."

Many who poured scorn on the pilots accused them of wading into politics for going beyond questions about the legality of their orders and challenging the occupation. "We cannot separate the two," Capt Jonathon S said. "We are not pacifists. We don't think we should sit back and let suicide bombers attack us. But all this is a direct result of our being in the [occupied] territories.

"Our fight to keep the settlements and suppress the Palestinian people is killing us. It is killing our right to live safely in the country of Israel. A very small group of radical Israelis is leading the sane majority to catastrophe."

Col Raanan scoffs at the accusation that the pilots have denigrated their uniforms by wading into political issues.

"The air force commander spoke in favour of the [Jewish] settlements while sitting in uniform next to Sharon at a Likud party convention," he said. "That is political. This country has a defence minister who, as army chief of staff, was the most political ever. It is hypocritical to say lower ranking officers cannot express an opinion. What they mean is, we can be political so long as we agree with the government. Well that's not democracy."

The pilots say they have received more than 500 letters of support, including one from a Holocaust survivor, and numerous calls from fellow pilots. Several leftwing former cabinet ministers praised the pilots' stand, saying it proved the armed forces were moral.

Concern in the air force prompted its commander, Major-General Dan Halutz, to meet groups of pilots to tell them that "targeted assassinations" were not a war crime.

"Halutz said we were traitors," Capt Assaf L said. "In our eyes, what we did is a very Zionist act. We did it to save Israel."

· Colin Powell said yesterday he had the right to talk to anyone with ideas for peace, dismissing Israeli criticism that it would be a mistake for him to meet the authors of the unofficial Geneva accord. "I am the American secretary of state. I have an obligation to listen to individuals who have interesting ideas," he said.

Although he did not say he would meet the accord's Israeli and Palestinian authors, US officials have said such a gathering could take place this week in Washington.

Speaker of the truth
- Homepage: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4810594-103681,00.html


Arf...

19.12.2003 15:10

Like I said, children are killed because Hamas et al treat them like pieces of meat.

As for Israelis who refuse to defend Israel, all I can say is it's a good job Israel doesn't treat dissenters the same way the Palestinians do, i.e. by lynching them in the street and dragging their corpses around as trophies.

Speaker of the truth


Oink...

19.12.2003 19:29

I refuse to believe what any of you say. I don't care if the bravest, most highly decorated career officers in the IDF and even Holocaust survivors say that the IDF is murdering civilians, and must stop. They're wrong. Israel good. Arabs bad. My mind is welded shut, and I'm safe in my ignorance.

Well, time for a beer I guess.

Speaker of the truth