The Palestinian Authority's Brutal Persecution of Christian Arabs:

* Christian graves vandalized:
Israeli Major-General Yaakov Or, coordinator for the territories, told the Israeli daily Ha'aretz (Feb.28, 2001) that there has been a rise in "vandalism of Christian graves" in the PA-controlled areas. He added that "some fifty Christian families from Beit Sahour [a mostly-Christian town in PA territory] alone tried to emigrate in the last month."

* PA police storm monastery:
The PA police burst into a Jericho monastery and tried to seize control of the building. Four nuns and monks were expelled. Two American nuns -- including Sister Maria, whose brother is former top Clinton aide George Stephanopoulos-- managed to remain in the monastery, and are refusing to leave. Sister Maria was injured by PA police officers during the course of the initial police invasion. (Associated Press, Jan.18, 2000)

* Senator meets Christians persecuted by PA:
U.S. Senator Connie Mack visited Israel in 1999, and met with Christians persecuted by the PA. In a speech he delivered on the floor of the U.S. Senate on March 3, 1999, Senator Mack reported:

I had a profound meeting during this week. I met one evening privately-- secretly--with Arabs who were being persecuted for their Christian faith. I met with about 10 Palestinian Christians. I will tell you just one of their stories, but I will change some of the details to protect the person I am describing.

I remember an energetic man, in his early 40s...He had many children and very little money. He converted to Christianity in 1993. He clearly loved God, and he loved to tell people about his conversion. He described to me how in 1997, the Palestinian Authority asked him to come to the police station for questioning. When he arrived, he was immediately arrested and detained on charges of selling land to Jews. He denied this charge, since he was very poor and owned no land. He was beaten. He was hung from the ceiling by his hands for many hours. He showed me what I just said. He showed me how his hands were tied behind his back and then raised from the floor and hung that way for many, many hours.

After 2 weeks, he was transferred to a larger prison where he was held for 8 months without trial. He was released in February 1998, after his family borrowed thousands of dollars to pay off the local authorities. And even though he is free, they are keeping his father in prison. They believe it is for his son's beliefs. He feels his father is being held hostage to prevent him from talking with people about his faith. Needless to say, these Christians met with me at considerable risk. They conveyed to me a message of fear and desperation. But their mere presence in the room with me demonstrated their hope, and it also caused me to ask, how can the people of Israel find peace with the Palestinian Authority while the Palestinian Authority engages in coercion and torture based upon religious beliefs?

* PA police expel nuns and monks:
On July 5, 1997, Arafat's police broke down the doors of the Abraham's Oak Russian Monastery in Hebron, expelled all the nuns and monks, and took over the site.

* Christians "subjected to brutal persecution":
The Israeli government has reported that "on the social and religious level, the few Christians remaining in Palestinian Authority-controlled areas are subjected to brutal and relentless persecution." (Jerusalem Post, Oct. 24, 1997)

* U.S. courts acknowledge PA's persecution of Christians:
Two American courts--one in Illinois, the other in North Carolina, have granted asylum to Palestinian Christian Arabs on the grounds that they would be persecuted for their religious beliefs if they return to PA-controlled territory. (Jerusalem Report, April 2, 1998)

The ONE zionist spook who trolls the UK IndyMedia site seems to enjoy posting under "muslim" sounding names - what the fuck do you think this achieves you fake "Jew"? Need to understand the difference between real Jews and the fakes who worship land and not god (zionists)? Let these peaceful Jewish folk tell you:

 http://www.JewsNOTzionists.org
 http://www.nkUSA.org


Our little zionist spook who likes to "correct" articles (so that they are acceptable to Zionist Nazis) gets around:


He once called himself "impartial observer of the middle east conflict" and posted the following article:

 http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/12/282382.html

The article is called "Isreali "illegal" settlements the facts" [notice this moron tries to deny that the "settlers" are in fact illegal occupiers].

How can this zionist spook poster claim to be "impartial" when the whole bullshit lying article is lifted from:

 http://www.betar.co.uk/facts/settlements.php

who are a ZIONIST YOUTH movement!!!




That's how "impartial" this spook is - don't be fooled by the "muslim" sounding names he uses - he's a godless zionist supporter of the fake "state" of "israel" and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine by the zionist entity that is occupying it ...

A quick search for the source of the zionist spooks comments confirm that they are from the ZOA website ...  http://www.zoa.org - IS THIS THE "REALITY" YOU LIVE IN "WAHIB"? POOR, DELUDED FAKE "JEW" - END THE 50 YEAR OCCUPATION OF LAND PALESTINIANS HAVE LIVED ON FOR CENTURIES ...

These racial supremacists at the ZOA are well know for their extremism - I hardly think they are a reliable source for anything other than zionist propaganda.

YOU CAN STICK YOUR "REALITY" TAKEN FROM A TWISTED ZIONIST WEBSITE UP YOU FAKE "JEW" MOTHER'S PUSSY.

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/12/282359.html

Where he tries the old "impartiality" trick again, and then tries to convince us that "Khaled" (another "muslim" name he uses) has opinions that the war criminal zionist Sharon would be proud of! What a joker ...

You're right I also posted as Khaled, but I'm definitely not the only person trying to balance out some of your more extremely genocidal jihadinazi posts.

I didn't post any of the posts signed 'impartial', nor most of the material you and you alone are replying to.

There's one of you, but at least two of us, working completely independently.

Seems we, the just, the seekers of truth, outnumber you, the lying, vicious fascist.

ZIONIST SPOOK: "we, the just, the seekers of truth"

WHAT A JOKE! You will not find the "truth" in your fake zionist "history" books ...

Much like these villages it as been erased so the ethnic cleansing zionists occupying Palestine can sleep better at night ... The Jews might have been a "people without a land" but Palestine had not been a "land without people" for centuries ...

Learn more about the continuing ethnic cleansing of Palestine:

 http://www.birzeit.edu/crdps/village.html
 http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/destroyed_villages/
 http://www.palestine-net.com/geography/cleansed/
 http://alcor.concordia.ca/~pal/History/Villages/village@.html
 http://www.alnakba.org/villages/villages.htm
 http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85819409/altinfo/list%20localities.htm
 http://www.palestine-un.org/news/may98_dest.html
 http://www.ipsjps.org/final/en/books/subcategory.php?subid=8

ETC.


"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don't blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the boooks not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

[Moshe Dayan, in Haifa, quoted by Ha'aretz, April, 4 1969. Reproduced by Ed Walid Khalidi in the book "All That Remains"]




"In our country there is room only for the Jews. We shall say to the Arabs: Get out! If they don't agree, if they resist, we shall drive them out by force."
Professor Ben-Zion Dinur, Israel's First Minister of Education, 1954

Who exactly were you calling a facist ??????????

YOU are the fascist.

You post links to Arab-supremacist websites which contain not one single grain of truth.

Palestinian history exists only because it's been invented, built on lies since the Muslim Brotherhood decided to invent a Palestinian nationalist identity in the 1960s.

Fortunately Israel isn't going anywhere, despite what Arab warmongers and their neo-nazi Western sympathisers (YOU) want.

Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years, and they will live there, enjoying their inalienable right to self determination, for thousands more.

The most common mistakes made by Israelis are as follows:

1. To fail to realize that there is no essential difference between Tel Aviv and a Jewish settlement in the West Bank.

2. To believe that the creation of the state of Israel was an outcome of the Holocaust.

3. To regard themselves as innocent people and thus as victims of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

4. To believe that they live in a democracy and therefore that their atrocities are legitimate.

5. To be convinced that they live in an open society which enjoys political and ideological diversity.

6. To believe that the ghetto is behind them.

7. To be convinced that the 'Jewish state' is a legitimate concept.

8. To think that Israel is a shelter for the entire Jewish people and the best answer to anti-Semitism.

9. To regard themselves as humanists.

10. To be sure that Israel is immortal.


Throughout the relatively short history of Jewish nationalism many Jews have managed to find flaws within Zionist philosophy. Many have detached themselves from Zionism. Since the declaration of the Israeli state, numerous Israelis have left Israel and more than a few Jews around the world have joined forces with the Palestinian liberation movement. Israelis, on the other hand, are those who still fail to realize that the ten beliefs above are grave, indeed fatal, mistakes.

One could probably ask whether these essential mistakes are made by Zionists in particular rather than all Israelis. In response I would argue that Israeli people are Zionists even though they may only have a very little knowledge of what Zionism is. Most Israelis were born into a colonial and racist reality. They are educated to maintain Zionism rather than to question it. This blind acceptance of one of the most radically chauvinist worldviews turns the Israelis into an impossible candidate for any form of peaceful negotiation.






THE TEN POINTS IN MORE DETAIL:


 http://www.doublestandards.org/atzmon1.html

OR

 http://www.counterpunch.org/atzmon08282003.html

OR

 http://www.gilad.co.uk/

The evidence of a few self-loathing Jews is supposed to negate the inalienable right of the Jewish people to self determination in their ancestoral lands? I think not.

I can smell the fear from this zionist spook ...

"self-loathing Jews"

- Is what you call those Jews who rightly see "israel" as the modern day false idol of the zionists (much like the Golden Calf - remember that one?) ... It's the usual zionist spook trick, with a variation - your type of spook usually calls them "self-hating" Jews - are you still training or have you not read your "How to defend the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the fake "state" of "israel"" manual properly?



"negate the inalienable right of the Jewish people to self determination"

- The "Jewish people" (of which you are not one, you racist ZIONIST - see  http://www.JewsNOTzionists.org for more info) DO have a right to self determination and the right to live in peace in Palestine. "israel" is the problem - this 50 year old fake "state" (occupation) should end, zionist supremacists should be brought to trial and then Muslims and real Jews can live in Palestine in peace ... Simple.



"ancestoral lands"

- Yeah, that old crap - nice to see you treating the Bible as a real estate manual ... If the zionists cared so much about their alleged "ancestoral lands" then why was Uganda shortlisted as a possible homeland for the zionists before they decided to invade Palestine?

You are such a fucking schmuck.

If you can't convince (how could you?) with your sickening racist, Nationalist diatribe you fall back on that tedious nonsense about "self-hating Jews."

The poster who refuted your hate-filled shit is a former IDF soldier, a man who has 'been there and done that'; a man who has actuallt TAKEN RISKS for Israel as opposed to pontificating from a PC, and he STILL doesn't approve of the state terrorism and slaughter.

For this he is self-hating? Bullshit.

The "self-hating Jew" concept is about as convincing as the insane notion that all Gentiles harbour some irrational and free-floating "anti-semitism."

You and your ilk are nothing more than whiny, vicious children who call names on anyone who disagrees with them. Tossers.

I suggest you a) Stop the counter-productive phony Arab name schtick and b) get yourself some tranqs so you calm the fuck down.

If you can't be part of the solution, stop being part of the fucking problem.

So if a Jew is "self-loathing" because he criticises the Israeli govt, does that make the entire Tory party and BNP "self-loathing" for criticising the current govt?

And it would follow that the only people who aren't "self-loathing" in this country are Blair and Mandelson.

Well, thanks for clearing that up then.

I refer to a few 'self-loathing' Jews because it's more appropriate than 'self-hating'. Self-hating is too clinical and doesn't adequately relate the same kind of abject revulsion these few people have with their foulness as human beings, or their longing to become victims of genocide at the hands of Amin al-Husseini's nazi disciples.

Talking of trainees, your reference to Uganda made me wonder why you didn't go for the softer 'Mozambique' angle usually trotted out by jihadinazis. Is your indoctrination into fascist, Jew hating historical revisionism flawed, or were you being creative?

I have to say how much I'm enjoying the 'dialogue'. There's nothing more fun than remaining calm and watching an opponent, i.e. you, unravel into inarticulate, primitive rage in response to my points.

Just to clarify - I was not calling anyone "self-hating" - that "Wahib" (the zionist nazi spook) was calling fellow Israeli Gilad Atzmon a "self-loathing" Jew!

"Wahib", are you a "settler" war criminal?

There seem to be a multitude of hidden agendas concealed - subtly or not so subtly in the above messages - I get so sick, I can't even be bothered to trawl through them...or is that part of the point? Whatever happened to international proletarian solidarity? Why does the Zionist state entertain fascists? Why do some fascists convert to Islam? Why is the biggest paymaster and theoretician of fascism based in WAshington? BNP - Bin Laden - Sharon - all bankrolled out of Washington...Ernst Bloch - 'WW2 didn't end with the defeat of fascism, but with the shifting of its seat of power to Washington

I meant 'Madagascar' not 'Mozambique', although as facts don't matter to you, it doesn't make much difference.

Posting Latuff cartoons, tut tut.

Latuff probably still has his father's SS uniform in the closet (they all went to Brazil, you know), near a pile of old Der Stuermer issues that he uses for inspiration.

Palestinian Christians reject Israeli charges

The Latin-rite Catholic Patriarchate of Jerusalem has reacted strongly to dispute recent stories that the Palestinian Authority has been engaged in discrimination against-- and even persecution of-- Palestinian Christians. The Patriarchate has reported continued friendly relations with Palestinian authorities, and dismissed the stories of persecution as propaganda efforts.

Moreover, the Patriarchate-- which serves the spiritual need of Latin-rite Catholics among the Palestinian people-- argues that the Israel government itself has discriminated against Christians by cutting of Catholic (and Orthodox) radio broadcasts. Representatives of the Church have asked Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to restore their access to radio programming.

Palestinians, including Palestinian Christians, have complained consistently for several months about Israeli "peace-keeping" efforts in the West Bank, which have resulted in severe economic hardships for the people living in that region. Schools, shops, and businesses have been closed by blockades; commerce has been badly curtailed; unemployment has soared; and basic needs such as food and medicine have become difficult to obtain.

However, in late November the Israeli government released a report claiming that Yasser Arafat's regime was engaged in "persecution" of Christians; the report argued that this persecution was the main reason for the steady flow of Christian emigrants away from the Holy Land. In a December 4 op-ed column for the Washington Times, Congressman J.C. Watts had repeated the Israeli claims, saying that Arafat was heading a "brutal and relentless persecution" against Christians.

Actually, the Jerusalem Patriarchate noted, "Conditions for Christians bear no resemblance to the conditions portrayed by the Israeli report." Dr. Wadie Nassar, a Church spokesman, reports that he has investigated every incident mentioned in the Israeli report, and found no basis for claims of anti-Christian bias in any case.

The emigration of Christians from Palestine, the Church spokesmen continued, has been occurring for more than a century, and the latest surge of emigration can be attributed to the lack of economic opportunity in the Palestinian lands-- a problem which is being exacerbated by Israeli restraints on trade.

Finally, the spokesmen observer, the Palestinian Authority has several Christians in prominent leadership positions. In fact Arafat himself is married to a Christian.

In fact, the Jerusalem Patriarchate turned the tables on the Israel government early in December, complaining that the state radio network had silenced the voice of Christians. Msgr. Giacintio-Boulos Marcuzzo, a spokesman for the Patriarchate, said that the broadcasts put out by the Catholic Church had been discontinued by the Voice of Israel's Arabic service. "They have cut off an entire community," said Msgr. Marcuzzo. "This is evident religious discrimination and we want the situation to be changed."

Although the Voice of Israel had explained the decision to cancel the Catholic programming as the result of budget cuts, Msgr. Marcuzzo pointed out that other broadcasts had been retained-- including "the Muslims who have daily, weekly, and seasonal programs. We are happy for the Muslims, but why this discrimination against the Christians?"

It's amazing what someone will say if the alternative is death at the hands of Hamas fanatics.

Did you leave out the part of the statement where they beg for their lives, and, at gunpoint, repeat the words la-ilaha-illa-Allah, Muhammadur-rasul-ullah in frightened voices?

.. if this 'fake arab' didn't exist, we surely would have to invent [him].

[He] is doing grand work here, exposing the foolish and deeply offensive arguments that flow from the zionist thinking ...

.. even better than that we have angry manc ... cheers to you mate, keep the real info flowing ... although the zionist trolls on here would like to think that their purile insults and badly constructed history, alongside their piss poor arguments to be allowed to do what the hell they like, are making a positive difference to their agenda - they are wrong.

I see now why at every turn, zionists attempt to bury any interesting discussion, contentous information or historical analysis under the weight of 'anti-semitism' - if they didn't, a free and level playing feild for the facts would render their aguments null and void quicker than you could say Shatila and Shabra.

The point about facism not losing the war, but instead shifting its bases to Washington et al, is fantastic and fantastically important. The nazi hydra did not die in 1945 - it was grafted wholesale onto the amerikan intelligence agency. The IBM/IG Farben/auchwitz conglomerate got on with business as usual and the vast majority of nazi party members went home or morphed into those 'who didn't have a choice' and who were useful to the running of the new 'denazified'[sic] germany/europe.

Where did the money go?

South Africa became relativly wealthy folowing this period - and they were israels best commercial friend (after amerika), trading in gold, diamonds, currancy, nuclear technology, ethnic bioweapons etc (see Dr W. Bosson and friends - Truth and reconciliation com.).

Zionists call Jews who hate or dissagree with the facism of isreal self haters etc. They have to. Becaus eto allow their criticism from a Jewish point of view would throw the light of truth uncomfortably on the global facist agenda that has been brooding and building for the next take over attempt of the future of humanity.

Bush - connected by family and philosophy[sic] to the third reich - represents the nucleus of the forth reich. Death unto it. Or die trying.

There can be no compromise.