Opposing Israel's policies isn't anti-semetism. On the big Feb 15 march there were Jews Against the Occupation, and, strangely enough, no-one attacked them or shouted anti-semetic slurs at them. The occupation puts pro-Israelis abroad in the firing line. Holocaust denial etc is a problem but to say the anti-occupation etc protests are anti-semetic is ridiculous, and just a way to dismiss criticism of Israel, which also btw contribrutes to the rise of anti-semetism, because critics of Israel say (rightly) 'I'm not anti-semetic, you're just shamefully using that to silence criticism', which makes it easier for the anti-semetic conspiracy theorist to say a similar thing.

I'm afraid that is a misunderstanding about what the term "anti-semetism" means. It does NOT mean "hatred of Jews by people who claim to have no reason for doing so". Those who hate Jews ALWAYS can produce reasons to justify their hatred. And the same is usually true of all other such hatred of "other" groups. It is always possible to find good reasons -- and irrelevant.

See, the point is NOT that you can justify your hatred of Jews by the conduct of Israel. Of course you can. But you did NOT proceed by hitting upon an instance of such conduct and then discovered who was doing it and deciding to hate them for this reason. If THAT were the case, only a tiny percentage of you would be attacking ISRAEL (and the Jews) based upon the random chance of having noticed THAT particular example of such conduct among the many possoble examples.

PLEASE --- this is NOT an argument defending the Israelis/Jews based upon "other people are doing likewise, even significantly worse things".

It's simply a description of the reality that ALL peoples are doing SOMETHING to which you could justifiably object. This will be true of the Israleis/Jews no matter what their conduct. You will ALWAYS have perfectly good reasons to hate them. You will always be able to justify that hatred to yourself. You hate Jews and search for a reason to justify that hatred. S urprise, surprise, you can find such reasons. So be happy, enjoy. But don't bother with B..S... like you aren't anti-semetic because you have "good reasons".

Harvard University claims that al Qaeda has forged links with Neo-Nazi's in a common cause, fighting a "New World Order" - so anyone opposed to "Globalisation" is a Nazi, with all it's conotations. Therefore, dissent against a totalitarian, militaristic, fascist World Government is "anti-Semitic" which is "terrorism."

> Opposing Israel's policies isn't anti-semetism

"In Belgium children were attacked near a Jewish school following a demonstration, and a Molotov Cocktail was tossed at a synagogue. In France an Israeli youth was attacked during a demonstration against the American action against Iraq. He was injured in the head and the eyes."

This IS anti-semitism, and it shows that anti-semitic feelings were whipped up at a demonstration. It is the demonstrators responsibility to make sure that lines are not crossed. Most of the protests feature many participants who are blatantly anti-semitic. nothing is done to stop these people, in fact they seem to be encouraged, which is ludicrous and extremely hypocritical considering they're supposed to be on a "peace" rally.


> The occupation puts pro-Israelis abroad in the firing line
A ridiculous statement, and one which tries to justify violence against Israelis. Do people attack Zimbabweans because of Mugabe? Do you attack Iraqis because of Saddam Hussein? Or Chinese people because of their 54-year occupation of Tibet? or Syrians for their 27-year occupation of Lebanon?? No of course u dont. so why do people attack Israelis only?
DONT attack Jews or Israelis, and DONT try to justify these attacks. they are racist, wrong and unacceptable, full stop.

Rather than trying to justify these attacks, why dont u condemn them for what they are?
Are u a "peace" protester or not?
Are u anti-Israeli-government, or just plain anti-Israel (her citizens included)?

So I'm anti-semetic now am I?????? What the hell are you on about Mike and Jamie? Mike do you think I just hate Jews and Israel is my excuse? Do you think Desmond Tutu just hates Jews and Israel is his excuse??? You're so fucking wierd to say that. If you really must know, many of the historical people I like were Jewish, like Emma Goldman or Rudolf Rocker. I am completely against anti-semetism and know a little bit about the history of Eastern European jewish communities, and the pogroms and so on. I could accuse capitalist supporters of Israel for being anti-semetic because the white terror and anti-Jewish pogroms against the Argentine anarchists were capitalist and protecting capitalism.

The reason people pay attention to Israel is pretty fucking obvious- Israel-Palestine is in the media all the time, and so is the Middle East, and we support Israel loads, despite the human rights abuses etc.

If you bothered to pay attention to what I said you would've noticed that I pointed out that accusing critics of Israel of being anti-semetic only plays into the hands of anti-semites, because now there is a kind of common thing with the anti-semites and the critics, because both are being labelled anti-semetic, and both are saying its jsut being used to silence them, which is true in one case, but not the other. If you're a critic of Israel (human rights abuses etc) and you read some articles and then a pro-Israel person accuses that guy of being anti-semetic and the author denies it and says its slander trying to silence criticism, then when you come across an article saying the Jewish lobbies control America, which is accused of being anti-semetic (which it is), and the author says they're just trying to silence him, you are much more likely to believe him.

'But don't bother with B..S... like you aren't anti-semetic because you have "good reasons". '

You are a fucking MORON. I personally am against BOTH SIDES in the Israel Palestine issue. I am anti-semetic because I don't unconditionally support Israel's human rights abuses????

'Rather than trying to justify these attacks, why dont u condemn them for what they are?
Are u a "peace" protester or not?
Are u anti-Israeli-government, or just plain anti-Israel (her citizens included)?'

Well I DO condemn these attacks, as I do attacks on Muslims and racism against them which as far as I know is a bigger thing in France than attacks on Jews, I apologise for not realising I had to condemn something to be not justifying or supporting it.

Why the fuck would I be anti-Israel's citizens?????? Even the most pro-Palestinians only say that the suicide attacks are acts of terrorist resistance against an occupation, not that the Israeli citizens deserve it.

The fact is that pro-Israelis are playing a very dangerous game by blurring the line between anti-semetism and the Israel-Palestine thing, which takes away the bite of anti-semetism. By doing this you're putting yourselves on the wrong side of the issue, anti-anti-semetism groups should be concerned with combatting hatred of Jews, SEPERATE FROM ISRAEL-PALESTINE ISSUE, ie. they should condemn anti-semetism but not try to link it in with criticism of Israel, or support of Israel.

You two have a real problem. You can't find any anti-semite on here to attack so you're accusing me of everything under the sun, assuming i'm this stereotype anti-semite that you've conjured up and assumed all critics of Israel secretly are.

And am I going to get an apology btw?

I oppose Israeli government policies and Zionist ideology because I am an anti-Semite.

I opposed apartheid because I really fucking hate white South Africans.

I opposed the Poll Tax because I think women are disgusting and shouldn’t be let anywhere near government.

I oppose the Russian campaign in Chechnya because Slavs are naturally inferior creatures prone to post-communist gansterism.

I opposed the war on Iraq because I am not only anti-American, but also hate British people like myself.

Fuck it, I admit it – Nazism leaves me cold because I simply loathe Germans!

Yep, this line of reasoning makes sense to me!

Who will buy my new book: "The Uselessness of Political Debate: because human beings REALLY ARE the ideology that claims to represent them"?

Chairman of the Coordination Forum for countering Antisemitism should act on the irresponsible use of the word Jew by the likes of JINSA (jinsa.org).
Probbaly if he could get through to these fascists somehow he should let them know that may be ZINSA is a more appropriate name.

At the moment the likes of JINSA produce documents on European tactics and irresponsible ones like the ADL carry out actions that really contradict everything that can be done by any such Israeli government agencies.

Recently many prominent Jewish scholars were very much against one of ADL's blatant misguided actions.

 http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.09.26/news6.berlusconi.html

Berlosconi is a fascist who has taken up a role of splitting up Europe.
Aganst this backround the new forum will not get anywhere.

What the hell is hapenning?
The Jewish people have to really stand their ground. They cannot let some misguided fellow Jews to confuse the clear boundary between Judaism and Zionism for the sake of their interests in national government policies of the USA or the arms trade. This is the realistic first step for the new forum. The forum will have to distance itself from the likes of Berlosconi.

"Anti-Zionism=Anti Jewish Racism" A quote from the great American Civil Rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. He knew Jew hatred when he saw it. Since you Europeans nearly wiped out all your Jewish citizens, its more polite to say "I dont hate Jews, Im just anti Zionist". Face it, its just two sides of the same coin and you only regret that Hitler didnt finish the job. Some of you like your David Irving even believe that Hitler didnt even start the job, that Aushwitz was a European Club Med with swimming pools rather than gas chambers. You Europeans have some nerve, you almost destroy the Jewish people, steal their assets, and then cheer on a group that want to complete the unfinished Jewish genocide. Anti Zionist? No, Just good old fashioned European Jew hatred.

Having branded ALL Palestinian Resistance as terrorism (yes folks even ISM is a terrorist organisation - many propagandists make that claim), it makes perfect sense to then attempt to stifle all criticism of the ongoing, brutal Occupation by all other citizens of the world as well, by branding them anti-semitic.

Because, stopping the Occupation is not an option. Not till all of the West Bank and Gaza is under direct Israeli control.

As yet, the State of Israel has yet to clarify whether it favours a Bantustan in 11% of historical Palestine, or transfer of all Palestinians to neighbouring states.

And, naturally, its anti-semitic to even say that.

Of course, it tends to be pro-Israelis who conflate Judaism and the State of Israel. Most critics are able to distinguish between the two.

Ho hum.

I don't understand why Israel is so hated anyway. It is a democratic country where everyone regardless of race colour or creed has equal rights. Where there is freedom of the press and free trade unions. Israel has also shown great restraint in the face of continued attacks against it by terrorist groups and hostile arab nieghbours. It has an army large enough to crush its arab neighbours but has chosen negotiation with them instead. It has successfuly negotiated peace deals with Jordon, Eygpt and Lebanon. It has never attacked or invaded another country except in self defence. Like every country acording to international law it has a right to self defence.

The suffering of the Palestinians which the left rant and rage about is entirely due to Palestinian terrorist groups continued targetting of Israel and their refusal to recognise the state of Israel and its right to exist. If all the Palestinian terrorist groups agreed to recognise Isreal and its right to exist and laid down their arms there would be peace in the Middle East for good. But they refuse to do this so Israel must maintain security operations aimed at stopping terrorist attacks against it! These security operation inevitably mean the Palestinian people suffer. But their suffering is not the fault of Isreal but the fault of the terrorist groups who claim the represent them!

.."The suffering of the Palestinians which the left rant and rage about is entirely due to Palestinian terrorist groups continued targetting of Israel and their refusal to recognise the state of Israel and its right to exist" ..

I steal your house, cut down your roses and kill your son. Your wife I leave by the roadside until your daughter is stillborn. How dare you refuse to recognise that the house is mine, how dare you resist. When we shoot you it is because you were 'targeting me'. But then thats because you have an irrational hatred of me.

Why else?

Who's been studying his Zionist propaganda then?

You're on well dodgy ground, what cult are you hooked up with these days?

And your claims about the purity of the Zionist project are laughable.

An alternative point of view by an Israeli, which deals with a number of issues on this thread.

 http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h-col.html