I'm not doubting what you're saying, but short of registering for their web site and attending their meetings (which I wasn't willing to do after what you said), how is it possible to find out more about them. There seemed to be no indication of their actual agenda from their web site either.

Let's be careful throwing around terms like "racist" and "anti-Muslim". As a frequent visitor to both LGF and other conservative websites, I can quite easily state that there is very little "racist" commentary. Instead, these sites (quite accurately in my opinion) identify glaring instances of media bias. Examples include the numerous reports that mainstream organizations put out laying blame for the end of so-called Israeli-Paleo truce squarely at the feet of Israel rather than the continued suicide bombings perpetuated by Hamas and IJ. Sites such as LGF also do a wonderful job refuting the anti-US rhetoric that spews out of mainstream news organizations with regard to the US led overthrow of the brutal Saddam regime.

Thank goodnews for independent sites such as this that have the nerve to call a spade a spade!

I challenge any Indymedia folk to be at this venue next week. We shall then see how cold facts dispute your simulacra of current world affairs.

1. No registration needed for LGF. If you want to understand what 'they' are all about just go to the website. Post your thoughts. You can post without supplying an email address for the world to see.

2. The article sounds like the author imagines LGF posters to consist of some group that is supported by another group. I post to LGF from time to time. Don't know any of the other posters and am not supported by anyone but myself. It's not a political movement or anything. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. I have never had a post removed.

3. For the most part, LGF is not censored. You will find emotions running high on some issues. I read and post to blogs ranging from far laft to far right and I can't see this blog (LGF) is racist any more than I'd call various Indymedia sites racist.

You may find some offensive posts, but you can find them anywhere, even on the various Indymedia sites. If you don't like what the LGFers are posting, give them a rational argument and show them how they are wrong.

...I once puosted the telephone contact number for an American Muslim convert who had a totally biased article published in the NYTimes. Charles saved this lady from a deluge of hateful angry phone abuse that day. He didn't do it because he agreed with her message but because it was the right thing to do. I am far more radical in my hostility towards Muslims then Charles is. Charles is oppinionated but his oppinion is rooted in facts. Beware Indy people if you show up at an LGF meeting you might very well leave a convert.

Papertiger

Here's a simulacrum for ya.

Weapons of Mass Destruction (Iraqi)

I hate to say it, but your example is wrong. While the hunt for the WMD still continue, they -have- existed, and therefore, they can not be simulacra. They once existed. Of this there is plenty of proof. You must misunderstand the concept.

The first Gulf War happened, of this there is plenty of proof. And yet it is still a simulacrum. Your logic fails you, you must have misunderstood Baudrillard.

mark,

What's your basis for 'real' then... or even the sim of such?

simulacrum? What, do you have word of the day toilet paper or something?

Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural sim·u·la·cra /-kr&/; also -crums
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, from simulare
Date: 15th century
1 : IMAGE, REPRESENTATION
2 : an insubstantial form or semblance of something

Let's see... an image, representation, or an insubstantial form...

Let's ask the hundred thousand people he used chemical weapons on, shall we? Let's ask UNSCOM who stated very clearly that he still had WMD. Let's ask Chirac, Clinton, Schroeder, and Albright who all stated in the late 90's that he Saddam had WMD. Let's ask the former Iraqi regime, whose own reports to the UN gave evidence that he still had WMD.

If that sounds insubstantial to you, then you are beyond hope and have no ability to discern fact from fiction.

Oh wait, it's all about ooooooil.

Ah, finally the comments function is up and running again...

So, is LGF a racist website? It is interesting to see how LGF supporters claim it is simply a "conservative" website, where open discussion takes place without censorship. This is patently not true. Having observed LGF for the better part of six months I think I can say with some certainty that:
a)

but decide for yourself. This is what a 30 second browse through the site threw up:

- "4 down, a couple of hundred thousand to go." Referring to the extrajudicial killing of four Palestinians by the IDF and the author's desire that all Palestinians are ethnically cleansed from what s/he considers the boundaries of Israel ( http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7948#c0003)

- "Yes, Maryam, it's OK for me to kill all Arabs, starting with you. You killed mine, there's a blood price to pay. That's a thousand-to-one in my book. I'm still short a few thousands. Thanks for volunteering, please post your real name and address, I'll come and collect." ( http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7948#c0123)
- "You are the product of a sick society, in turn the poduct of a sick religion, founded by a pedophiile moonworshipper. Your culture creates NOTHING of value. It has contributed nothing to civilization. It steals other's history and culture, especially that of the jews and christians, and warps them into something unprincipled and evil, to fill its emptiness. It is a handicapped society. Your people would be still living in filth if it was up to your arab brothers, and if it wasn't for the israelis. You'd be serving the men of your family hand and foot, a virtual slave, if it wasn't for the pal proximity to Israel." ( http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7948#c0146)
Both referring to Maryam, a Palestinian who challenged LGF opinions and who was presumably banned as well shortly after posting because what she said was too uncomfortable to them.

- "You arabs are a lying race generally, and the palestinians have condemned themselves to hell for what they are doing to their children. In fact, you use them to taunt Israeli soldiers, hoping for them to get killed and thus use them as propaganda about "Israeli genocide." Give this sorry excuse for a people their own country? I hope not. You have no sympathy from me." ( http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7948#c0192)

Now if these comments do not portray a racist mindset, I don't know what does. The dangerous thing though isn't that this is a bunch of ill-informed geeks with a hobby-horse, but that they are quite successful in presenting themselves as reasonable and moderate when needs be. Their "evil leader" (his owns words), Charles Johnson, regularly gets invited to take part in talk shows, and the site itself is quoted in fairly moderate circles as if it had any authority. These people, who in the Third Reich would have been at the forefront of pogroms and persecution, are somehow able to get away with incitement to murder.

b) LGFers tolerate only minial dissent from their own line. Post facts (and links to back them up) which disagree with them and you can be sure your IP address will be banned within 24 hours. LGF, for all its claims to be accurate and truth-seeking, hates anyone who diverges from its opinion and will persecute them by every electronic means necessary, and beyond. People have received hate mail, hate phone calls, found sites branding them terrorists, all after having tried to engage LGFers in discussion. What is more, LGF hates other independent media outlets like indymedia with a passion. Service providers have been called up, message boards spammed...just look at what this thread is turning into.

All I can say is: take a look at LGF for a few weeks. Try and join the discussions and see what happens. Then make up your mind as to whether these people are intolerant racist thugs who represent a danger to free discourse or not.

PS: As to whether they are backed by any organisation: as a whole, probably not. But it's a well known fact that "media" outlets such as LGF do get covert support from certain agencies because they represent a "respectable" and "independent" opinion on affairs. The suitcase full of money turning up on a doorstep isn't such a weird concept in this context. Look at the history of supporting bands, art groups, newspapers, publishers etc during the Cold War. PsyOps is alive and well and living in the blogosphere.

Conservative? A bit disingenuous. I've looked at the site and its Sun-esque 'reporting' repleat with rascist language ( of the 'mad mullahs' variety) . Yes,there are murders comitted by zealots and the desperate from various factions. (I would say there are more than simplistic dualist approach you take). The majority of slaughter are coming from the Zionist / IDF camp. An analysis of your blog would seem to indicate a desire to incite racial violence.

Typical quote from site ( after Rachel Corries parents met Arrafat )"every last iota of sympathy I had for Rachel Corrie’s parents is now gone" - Charles /Michael , you must be particularly mean minded little pricks/brats. I'm sure you were heartbroken. I don't particularly like Arrafat either but again I see 68% of your brave little posters want to kill him. How manly you all are!

I have Jewish, Islamic, Agnostic, Atheist, Pantheist, Buddhist, and Sihk friends, although myself I am inclined towards the 'don't know how or why but I ain't killing anybody over a few old polical - metaphysical books' camp. I'm not falling for the tempations of hermeneutics. With religion, to paraphrase Wittgenstein, look for the use.
Whether it's Sharia Law's misogny in Nigeria, Christian fundamentalist racism in Texas, or Zionist colonialism in the middle east, these are all exercises in power relations played by the few to exploit the many.

ps. Indymedia is worldwide, in case you haven't noticed, and includes many American and Jewish posters.
pps.

If you're going to reference Baudrillard, you should at least read him. Try starting with his book about the first Gulf War,

'The Gulf War did not take place'

 http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard

LGF is a weblog where fact based discussion abounds and all comers are encouraged to include themselves in the discussion. Although, you MUST be willing and ABLE to backup your arguments with real genuine facts, things like "the US Government and CIA staged the 9-11 attacks" will get you promptly laughed off the boards. Even among the "regular" posters fact based disucssion is mandatory, non are spared so be prepared to defend any argument you make.

LGF posters are good at shining light on the hypocrisy of people and world governments in thier politically driven public affairs. In doing so a certain degree of frustration can be seen on the boards, this happens with most emotionally charged topics and discussions and should be approached with reserve.

As far as "racist" goes, that really isnt the case and to throw that term casually like a blanket over the tens of thousands of daily visitors to that site isnt what I would call good practice. If you go to LGF and make racist statements you will promptly be banned, no doubt about it.


"jjf" your quoted comments are taken out of context and Im sure thats what you intended, that is, at best, a low class practice.

Additionally you state that LGF is somehow funded by a "PsyOps" Government Agency? "Suit case of money on the doorstep"? It's baseless conspiracy theorist statements like yours that remove all credibility from an argument on the LGF boards. You must be based in reality to participate in the discussion, there ARE some requirements and a functional ability to reason is helpful in this case.

It's quite low class as well to use the LGF contact information as your email address, you do this why? To try and impersonate LGF administration? For Shame!

In summary, I dont have more time to waste here so I wont be coming back by but I enjoyed your theories, thanks for the laugh.



mark:
ps. LGF is worldwide, in case you haven't noticed, and includes many American and Jewish posters.

There is no agenda at LGF, it is a forum to discuss many things, primarily the situation in the Middle East. It is unfortunate that you choose to slander those that disagree with your views, especially with that tired old "Racist" label. You can only throw that label so many times before it loses it's legitimacy. LGF'ers are angry with radical Islam and the current culture of suicide bombers and Jew haters in the Palestinian territories. It cannot be denied that there is deliberate hate propaganda being dispersed in that region. Indoctrination of children for suicide missions and martyrdom by referring to other human beings as pigs and monkeys (dehumanizing) is a culture of destruction. Promising ridiculous claims of paradise as a reward for martyrdom is disgusting and horrifying and totally unfair to those poor Pali kids being brainwashed when they are at their most vulnerable. Don't bother retaliating with the "occupied territories" and desperation baloney. Occupied is open for debate and a whole other issue as far as desperation, there are MANY other desperate peoples in the world and none are creating suicide bombers. The overwhelming number violent conflicts in the world today are the result of radical Islamic ideology. There is no racism at LGF, that accusation is bogus.

Apart from the rest of the bilge:

"there are MANY other desperate peoples in the world and none are creating suicide bombers"

Never heard of Chechnya? Sri Lanka?

"Never heard of Chechnya? Sri Lanka?"

Islamic. What is your point?

"Is LGF a racist website?"

Over the top. A Selective cut and paste job is not a true representation of the numerous posters and topics there. This post is full of hypocricy and juvenile, slanderous rants.

Nah, Charles isn't a racist, and the comments section is unmoderated. nor are the majority of people who inhabit LGF. The site does atttract some angry, irrational people that positively spew anti-Arab and antiMuslim stuff, and there are also some people who tacitly enable such behavior. One of the reasons I stopped posting there was the stench given off by some of the latter, but I think these are a minority.

Of course, LGF attracts the odd anti-semitic bigot every once in a while too. But give credit where credit is due: go there with facts, and people will discuss them, factually. Go there as an apologist for normative Islam, and you will get some very pointed questions asked of you. Go there full of ideas about Israel, and some very sensible Israelis and non-Israeli Jews will talk to you.

Of course, go there saying "Zionism is Naziism" or "suicide bombing is a poor man's F-16' or Bush=Hitler or other such silliness, and you will promptly get the disrespect you deserve.

out of respect for a recently deceases you'd think they let one positive comment stand but no, it (zmag's eulogy by Cockburn in this case) didn't survive their 'broom'.

And to show what a one way street mindset they allow themselves to be infested with go to indy main now and see 5 articles in a row by the old wily charles and co

 http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=349836&group=webcast more of my comments to the uninitiated

ps: get some of those little nifty top right corner squares sf and la sport, I'm allergic to white pages and don't have me own machine to permanently fix that.

the people who dare to question the anti-war trend sweeping through "sophisticated" europe are few and far between. your people need not worry. your help for the demise of progress and civilisation continues with the grace of your support. and i am not a 'right-winger'

I've posted at LGF a few times, and in return my comments were deleted once this Charles character was notified about them & I recieved various hate mail letters, some even threatening violence. Apparently because of my Arabic name. These people are dangerous.

Hey leila:

If you don't mind, could you please provide a link or two of the times you posted there? I consider myself a pretty reasonable fellow (in addition to being generally opposed to violence). I'd love to peruse a sample of your posting at that site. If what you say is true, I'm objective enough to report back and verify the validity of your statement.

Without such a link, however, I'm forced to choose between believing you blindly versus going with my experience at the site. During the few times I've visited there, the only "hatred" I witnessed was when someone posted who was merely "trolling" for insults--they usually made obviously inflammatory comments themselves practically BEGGING for the regulars there to reply in a negative fashion.

As I said before, if you were mistreated and can provide me a token link or two to prove it, I will HAPPILY return here and verify it.

THANKS!

Despite leila's claims of "threats" against her, she hasn't bothered to return with links evidencing any of these alleged actions. During her month-long absence, I've periodically perused LGF, and while the debate in there is quite animated, I've witnessed ZERO threats of any kind made to those who post there.

The jury's still out on whether LGF is a racist site, but yes, there are posters who make racist comments and get their posts left on.

Even more than the racist comments are those expressing half truths or opinions without proof. There are just too many to name. If the webmaster of the site gets around to censoring any of these, he apparently does so selectively.

I am a close personal friend of LGF webmaster Charles Johnson. I am also his lawyer. I must warn you that I will persue legal action against against anyone who slanders Charles or his website.

Proceed.

Eugene V. Belitsky Esq.

San Francisco, CA