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ID cards get Andrew Smiths support

gnome | 18.09.2003 08:30 | Oxford

The work and pensions secretary, Andrew Smith, is a strong supporter of ID cards on the grounds that it will go some way to tackling illegal working and benefit fraud.

Cabinet split delays ID cards plan

Some ministers object to intrusion and cost of scheme but others see it as way to cut health and benefit bill

Alan Travis and Patrick Wintour
Thursday September 18, 2003
The Guardian

The home secretary, David Blunkett's plans to introduce a national scheme of identity cards have been held up by objections from leading cabinet members, including Peter Hain, the leader of the Commons, Patricia Hewitt, the trade secretary, and Charles Clarke, the education secretary.

While several ministers are still concerned about the principle of the scheme, the debate has also turned to practical difficulties, including the likely £40 per person charge and 10-13 years it would take to bring into operation.

Mr Blunkett had wanted to deliver an upbeat report on progress to the Commons this week but was told to hold back after a wide-ranging cabinet discussion last week.

Some cabinet sources said the government's unpopularity made it impossible to impose a £40 charge for a card intended only to cut social security fraud.

Mr Blunkett also came up against principled objections from ministers alarmed by the scale of intrusion implicit in the government's most grandiose version of the plan.

The ministers are still worried by the plans for ID cards to be based on biometric information, such as fingerprint or eye scanning, requiring 40m Britons to go to kiosks to have their biometric information recorded. They also warn that the scheme will not be a short-cut solution to curbing illegal asylum seekers.

The Treasury is concerned to make sure it does not bear the £1.8bn cost.

MPs on the Commons home affairs are to examine the proposal's practical difficulties. Polls show public support for a scheme, but widespread resentment that it will be accompanied by huge disruption.

The prime minister, who remains an enthusiast for identity cards, signalled yesterday to a private meeting of Labour MPs that he will press ahead with fresh asylum legislation. It will focus on making it a presumption to reject an application if the claimant has lost or destroyed his identity papers.

Mr Blair, who allowed last week's cabinet meeting to have a wide-ranging debate on ID cars, has let it be known that he is keen to allow full cabinet discussions on a range of other domestic issues as part of a change of style.

The chancellor has made clear his lack of enthusiasm for the scheme, but says it can go ahead as long as the Treasury does not have to foot the bill. ID card enthusiasts know that charging everyone £40 is not an attractive option and are floating the idea that the Whitehall departments that will benefit most, such as social security and health, should foot part of the bill.

The cabinet last week decided to ask its domestic affairs committee to take a further look at the technical questions such as eyescans and other biometric security measures. The committee is chaired by John Prescott, who is also reported to have strong reservations about the scheme.

No cabinet member said they were against ID cards on principle during last week's meeting, but questioned whether the paving legislation was really a priority for this year's Queen's speech, voiced fears it would get bogged down in opposition in the House of Lords, or questioned the cost.

Mr Blunkett, however, can rely upon the enthusiastic support of the health secretary, John Reid, who sees ID cards as a vital tool in tackling the problem of "health tourism" without having to persuade NHS staff to act as immigration officers.

The work and pensions secretary, Andrew Smith, is also a strong supporter on the grounds that it will go some way to tackling illegal working and benefit fraud. Mr Blunkett has already sugested that the cost of the card could be paid in instalments and that elderly people would not have to renew their cards. But he told MPs on the home affairs committee last week that the government had to decide soon whether to defer the legislation.

The shadow home secretary, Oliver Letwin, has said he supports benefit entitlement cards which simply prove who people are, but is highly sceptical about the need for an identity card.

But the Police Federation has come out strongly in support, arguing that ID cards should be introduced on a voluntary basis but made mandatory as the level of public support increases.

gnome
- Homepage: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1044261,00.html

Comments

Hide the following 6 comments

Defy ID

18.09.2003 10:04

Check out  http://www.defy-id.org.uk/ for more information on resistance to big brother...

ciderpunx


WARNING: You Are Already Being Watched!

20.09.2003 16:26

To come back to the topic, here is a feature on IMC Arkansas about a famous surveillance state, the USA... very interesting to see how Big Brother is everywhere...

ID cards is just a move in this direction... do we want to be spied like this? Or are we already spied that much here in the UK (probably...)?

please have a look, people in favor of an ID card...

WARNING: You Are Already Being Watched!
 http://arkansasdada.devel.indypgh.org/feature/display/1922/index.php


PS: btw, if you receive spam it is just because you put your email address at the end of your posts in a non-encrypted form, and on the web there are robots scanning all the websites and sending spam mails to the email addresses they find... if you don't want spam put your address in this form: "patatepoil at hotmail.com"...

PSS: if you want to be sure not to have viruses anymore, just use Linux instead of Windows... :-) anyway ram's link is clearly not a virus, you can open it I tried before you!

sociétélibre


Assuming everyones calmed down

20.09.2003 17:49

Back to the masonic police state.

Big question: who now wants to have ID cards introduced?
Until I get a clear answer I shall refer to these dark forces as pigscum.

Just because there was a vote by the same pigscum who voted for the cold blooded killing in Iraq nothing is answered. Infact it is only clear that this is the work of dark forces as even chemical Kelly pointed out.

Such is the greatness of our human heritage, in our parts of the world wallowing in pigswill for more than 300 years, non stop, we still posses few human rights.

An ID card system will drown the last breaths of freedoms we may have.
ID card systems have been the only tool of suppression in all the economical ruins we have created around the world. There they have no sophisticated pigscum systems like here.

What we have had is a constant build up of sophisticated technologies to invade privacies.
Infact it seems the pigscum are so confident of their security mechanisms prompting them into dangerous global aggression.

Of course the situation is so precariously hopeless and they can stamp on us if they really want to but the global political bullshit that has spun for the past century traps them from doing so. Example if and when IMC-Oxford is shut down the world will really know our true plight.

The amalgamation of the technologies already used in use in our domain with primitive _concepts_ like the ID cards will result in the ultimate disaster.
If you think the ID card is going to be another card to chop powdery substances you better wake up.
Think about implants and the lot. It will be a gate opened to new levels of control.

Maybe this might mean a potential toning down of the blanket mind control at work now but hey! what would you pick? Which is more dangerous?

It is the _concept_ of carrying an ID with you while a seperate central database is maintained by dark forces.

Rememeber we are in masonic superstate that was formed with the all watching eye as the goal.

Only for the imagery from the $ bill (not for what the article says)
 http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterSeven/TheGreatSeal.htm

PS:
It is known from the time of FBI's unsuccessful request in Seattle the lack of web server logs is countered by infiltration of IMC administrative structures to use of traffic listening devices.

PSS:
Thanks for alleviating the idiotic fears.
What you missed is that no one can guarantee that the MS-Word document has no back door to hell. You are corect, a good human rights activist should have embraced the realistic alternatives. Apologies for pointing to such a dreafully presented resource.

ram


probably because ...

24.09.2003 09:09

Personally I will burn/microwave/destroy mine, should I ever be forced to take one.

ID cards were a critical part of the infrastructure of repression in soviet russia/apartheid south africa/nazi germany - I don't trust any government not to want to abuse the data they'd have if the cards were introduced. Even if the govenrnment /say/ they won't abuse the power, there are always parts of the state apparatus who /will/ use information inappropriately. Look at the police abuse of the terrorism act. Plus even if the people /don't/ abuse it can anyone think of a large scale government IT project that hasn't fucked up (think air traffic control, passports, etc).

I don't want my biometrics, life history, criminal record, sexual preference, and shopping habits available to every 2 bit hacker, low ranking civil servant and fascist cop in the country. None of their business. Plus I won't finance my own repression through my taxes....

ciderpunx


I remain against ID cards

26.09.2003 08:16

I am against compulsory or voluntary ID cards. I suggest that the £17 or so I paid for a provisional driving licence is a reasonable amount to pay for identification, and I do not want to pay £100's in extra tax for another bungled government scheme (they bungle everything that requires IT, NHS systems and Tax Credits). We should all get a free provisional licence at 16 when we get our NI Id cards.

I am an enthusiastic Oxfordian cyclist - I dislike cars, though I did learn to drive for various reasons. On a related point, I do not believe in licencing of cycling, or anything which will reduce cycle use.

I think ID cards will increase the ease of information gathering by police while illegally using the new Terrorism Act powers to stop search protestors (ref. USAF Fairford, nr. Gloucester). If I had remembered to leave my wallet at home, I could have given an alias name, address, and postcode...if I had to carry an ID card and left that then they could do stop searches at all demonstrations and cart off those without cards. Even if that is not legal, the police appear happy to overstep their powers, and I'd rather not give them another weapon to suppress protest.

I had a chat with a Met officer outside USAF Fairford this year, who admitted the use of the phrase 'Crush Tactic' as the manouvre in which the mounted police compress a crowd until they panic and riot. Many of them weren't wearing their ID numbers on their lapels, now if they won't wear their identification materials (?for fear), why should we when we fear the State.

Jon R


new zealand, land of the long white lie

15.10.2003 00:17

I am staunchly against ID cards, for reasons listed by the well informed and the paranoid.
You know the old saying- "just because your paranoid doesnt mean there not out to get you"

They tried to introduce ID cards in NZ and Austrailia. The Austrailians repleled the idea on a "no way get *******, **** off" augument, while in NZ a 'community services card has been introduced, which "allows access" to essential services, such as health care at an affordable rate. The NZ government is currently peopled by mostly humans, but if this changes, who knows how the card system may prevent realistic dissent .Thats the thing really, for ""when injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty""

But dont worry, we can allways head for the hills, in that time honoured tradition, when the **** hits the fan.

Do not accept the cards, do not accept the status quo, do not expect
'the powers that be' to never misuse the powers they are given.

If we need to prevent the U.K becoming more of a puppet state of the U.S we need a little anomimity at times. Its no good organising a protest just to find your credit has been stopped and there is a warrent out for you which they track with your cell phone, else it will be smoke signals and horses for the revolution.

matt mo
mail e-mail: mjdmorton@ecocentrus.co.uk